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Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: tuolumnejim on March 03, 2008, 08:50:24 AM

Title: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: tuolumnejim on March 03, 2008, 08:50:24 AM
There needs to be a bounty on *sshats dead or alive.

Link (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004256586_webdreamsfire03m.html)

Quote
Fire burns "Street of Dreams" homes in Snohomish County
The Associated Press

WOODINVILLE, Wash. — Four large homes are burning at a "Street of Dreams" model home development north of Woodinville, and the Snohomish County District Seven Chief Rick Eastman told KING-TV that a sign saying ELF was left at the scene.

ELF or Earth Liberation Front has claimed responsibility for other arsons, including one at the University of Washington in 2001 for which a woman is now on trial in Tacoma.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 03, 2008, 09:07:30 AM
Domestic Terrorists should be treated like international terrorists -- shoot on sight.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 09:15:35 AM
My girlfriend and I were at the Street of Dreams last year... the homes are phenominal and set in a beautiful area, so of course, the ELF must destroy them. I'm glad I took so many pictures of them - the craftmanship and time that went in to those houses was breathtaking.

I wonder where the ELF lives? in shacks? mud huts?


holes in the ground?  :censored:



Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: RedTail on March 03, 2008, 09:28:19 AM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Splashdown on March 03, 2008, 09:53:58 AM
They're terrorists and should be treated as such!   :bird:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: tuolumnejim on March 03, 2008, 10:17:12 AM
My girlfriend and I were at the Street of Dreams last year... the homes are phenominal and set in a beautiful area, so of course, the ELF must destroy them. I'm glad I took so many pictures of them - the craftmanship and time that went in to those houses was breathtaking.

I wonder where the ELF lives? in shacks? mud huts?


holes in the ground?  :censored:

Post a couple of pic's of what they looked like, here's a video link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23447501#23447501) of what they looked like today.


Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 10:35:54 AM
They're terrorists and should be treated as such!   :bird:

Don't hold your breath waiting for the US to carry out airstrikes within the US.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 10:47:50 AM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

not to mention, those homes will just be rebuilt...   every home they've ever burned down was rebuilt.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 10:50:59 AM
My girlfriend and I were at the Street of Dreams last year... the homes are phenominal and set in a beautiful area, so of course, the ELF must destroy them. I'm glad I took so many pictures of them - the craftmanship and time that went in to those houses was breathtaking.

I wonder where the ELF lives? in shacks? mud huts?


holes in the ground?  :censored:

Post a couple of pic's of what they looked like, here's a video link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23447501#23447501) of what they looked like today.



http://flickr.com/photos/jeffsand/sets/72157601114207409/?photo_deleted=958210885


here is the set, but the photos just do not do them justice...   
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 10:53:08 AM
so, the updated news we've heard this morning on FOX is that ELF left behind a big 4 foot sign to claim responsibility which read, "These homes were supposed to be green"

meaning, they didnt feel the materials used were up to their standards.

i dont recall this particular Street of Dreams as being "the Green Collection" or anything of that nature.. but it was a while back, so I could be wrong.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 10:56:16 AM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 03, 2008, 11:04:10 AM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*
...and then the houses will be rebuilt...using more eeeevil natural resources.   :whatever:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: guest on March 03, 2008, 11:20:02 AM
I hate what they do. :censored:  But I have to give them credit for operating the way they do in order to avoid capture.  They aren't an organized group, just a bunch of splinter groups and individuals.   

Have they ever  officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 11:26:38 AM
I hate what they do. :censored:  But I have to give them credit for operating the way they do in order to avoid capture.  They aren't an organized group, just a bunch of splinter groups and individuals.   

Have they ever been officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.



you give them credit for eluding capture??
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 03, 2008, 11:33:16 AM
I hate what they do. :censored:  But I have to give them credit for operating the way they do in order to avoid capture.  They aren't an organized group, just a bunch of splinter groups and individuals.   

Have they ever been officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.



you give them credit for eluding capture??

You entirely misunderstood my post. :banghead:  I am saying that they are, unfortunately,  smart for NOT being an organized group in the way they go about their crimes.   

I do NOT LIKE WHAT THEY DO.   What else can I do to make myself clear enough on that?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: TheSarge on March 03, 2008, 11:38:01 AM
Quote
Have they ever been officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.

Yes.

Earth Liberation Front is now FBI’s No. 1 Domestic Terrorist Threat-

http://prfamerica.org/EarthLiberationFrontNo1onFBIList.html
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: guest on March 03, 2008, 11:39:56 AM
Quote
Have they ever been officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.

Yes.

Earth Liberation Front is now FBI’s No. 1 Domestic Terrorist Threat-

http://prfamerica.org/EarthLiberationFrontNo1onFBIList.html

Okay, that's somewhat comforting to know.   

It's sad, though, that group will never completely go away.  There is no organizational hierarchy in ELF, just a bunch of little groups and individuals. 

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 11:41:37 AM
I hate what they do. :censored:  But I have to give them credit for operating the way they do in order to avoid capture.  They aren't an organized group, just a bunch of splinter groups and individuals.   

Have they ever been officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.



you give them credit for eluding capture??

You entirely misunderstood my post. :banghead:  I am saying that they are, unfortunately,  smart for NOT being an organized group in the way they go about their crimes.   

I do NOT LIKE WHAT THEY DO.   What else can I do to make myself clear enough on that?

its a weird stance to take... but if that's how you feel, that's fine. i dont find anything that they've done 'smart' by any stretch of the imagination and yes, some of them are in prison and have been captured.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: guest on March 03, 2008, 11:43:05 AM
I hate what they do. :censored:  But I have to give them credit for operating the way they do in order to avoid capture.  They aren't an organized group, just a bunch of splinter groups and individuals.   

Have they ever been officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.



you give them credit for eluding capture??

You entirely misunderstood my post. :banghead:  I am saying that they are, unfortunately,  smart for NOT being an organized group in the way they go about their crimes.   

I do NOT LIKE WHAT THEY DO.   What else can I do to make myself clear enough on that?

its a weird stance to take... but if that's how you feel, that's fine. i dont find anything that they've done 'smart' by any stretch of the imagination and yes, some of them are in prison and have been captured.



You still don't get it.     :banghead:   It's not a weird stance.  I am merely saying that by acting as splinter groups and individuals, the odds of the organization being completely disbanded are slim to none.  There's no hierarchy that the government can go after. 
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 11:53:03 AM
I hate what they do. :censored:  But I have to give them credit for operating the way they do in order to avoid capture.  They aren't an organized group, just a bunch of splinter groups and individuals.   

Have they ever been officially been called a domestic terrorist organization?  Just curious.



you give them credit for eluding capture??

You entirely misunderstood my post. :banghead:  I am saying that they are, unfortunately,  smart for NOT being an organized group in the way they go about their crimes.   

I do NOT LIKE WHAT THEY DO.   What else can I do to make myself clear enough on that?

its a weird stance to take... but if that's how you feel, that's fine. i dont find anything that they've done 'smart' by any stretch of the imagination and yes, some of them are in prison and have been captured.



You still don't get it.     :banghead:   It's not a weird stance.  I am merely saying that by acting as splinter groups and individuals, the odds of the organization being completely disbanded are slim to none. 

i do get it.. i just dont agree with you. and since they are now actually termed as domestic terrorists (dont know when that occured, but i am glad they finally made the list) they have better teams of experts looking for them.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 03, 2008, 11:56:40 AM


i do get it.. i just dont agree with you. and since they are now actually termed as domestic terrorists (dont know when that occured, but i am glad they finally made the list) they have better teams of experts looking for them.



I would hope that there are better people finding ways to infiltrate the splinter groups in order to bust them.   I am not trying to paint them in a positive light at all.  I am only saying that their tactics to avoid capture are sadly working. 
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 01:43:22 PM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

..because it has nothing to do with pollution. It has to do with class warfare and their hatred of Capitalism. Don't see too many '78 Ford pickups vandalized, do ya? Yet they pollute a HELLUVA lot more than an '08 Escalade.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DixieBelle on March 03, 2008, 01:49:11 PM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

..because it has nothing to do with pollution. It has to do with class warfare and their hatred of Capitalism. Don't see too many '78 Ford pickups vandalized, do ya? Yet they pollute a HELLUVA lot more than an '08 Escalade.
BINGO!!!!

I've always wondered why the tree-huggin' granola heads don't go after old clunkers and sportscars. Instead, they focus all of their rage on SUV's because that's a symbol of all they hate.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Attero Dominatus on March 03, 2008, 02:25:34 PM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

Ecoterrorists are like DUmmies. Their hatrid has consumed any common sense and rationality they might have had before.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 03, 2008, 02:47:15 PM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.

Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 02:59:38 PM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.

Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

It's his way of excusing, by marginalization, the people to which he probably agrees.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 03, 2008, 03:12:53 PM
I don't get why ELF burns stuff.

By burning, they release FAR more chemicals into the atmosphere than those houses ever did while standing.

All that carpet, paint, wood, glass and metal doesn't exactly just melt/crack/peel/disintegrate w/o letting SOMETHING into the air.

For a group that is freaking' environmentally conscious, I wanna know why they wantonly pollute so.

*TKay*

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.

Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

It's his way of excusing, by marginalization, the people to which he probably agrees.

No doubt. I happen to think that kind of dismissive attitude is more dangerous and ignorent than any reaction I've read on the thread so far.

On edit:

The other reactions I've read so far, IMO are not dangerous or ignorent btw. Poor phrasiology, lol. "Treating them like terrorist" is the right solution and, luckily enough, the solution we are correctly pursuing. 
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 03:17:22 PM
Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

Well, I'm glad someone noticed my awesome comment, but I have no idea what you're trying to say about it.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 03:25:31 PM
Well, I'm glad someone noticed my awesome comment, but I have no idea what you're trying to say about it.

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 03, 2008, 03:33:14 PM
Yeah the "pollution" argument against ELF is weak but is there something you care to confess about your childhood Owl?

You mocked the terrorist post with your comment about "airstrikes" but your dismissal of using arson as a political tactic as "childlike" is even more extream. There are many ways of dealing with terrorist including arrest. Your tactic is far more dangerous.

Well, I'm glad someone noticed my awesome comment, but I have no idea what you're trying to say about it.



I belive terrorist belong in jail and murdering terrorist deserve death. While shooting an arsonist "on site" is extreme and IMO wrong, treating them like children is more extreme and more immoral.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Wineslob on March 03, 2008, 04:36:19 PM
These idiots go around "spiking"(they drive huge nails into trees) trees in the Pacfic Northwest in attempts to injure loggers/lumber workers. Unfortuately it works, because "spiked" logs have caused the huge saw blades (in ripsaws used to split the in-coming logs into planks) to break in lumber mills and spit out of the machines and hitting the workers. Think of a band saw blade with huge teeth 6" wide and 30+ ft long flying out and bouncing around the mill.
These jackasses have stated that they will kill people for their agenda.
I hope the FBI finds them and strings them up by the balls.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 04:44:12 PM
These idiots go around "spiking"(they drive huge nails into trees) trees in the Pacfic Northwest in attempts to injure loggers/lumber workers. Unfortuately it works, because "spiked" logs have caused the huge saw blades (in ripsaws used to split the in-coming logs into planks) to break in lumber mills and spit out of the machines and hitting the workers. Think of a band saw blade with huge teeth 6" wide and 30+ ft long flying out and bouncing around the mill.
These jackasses have stated that they will kill people for their agenda.
I hope the FBI finds them and strings them up by the balls.

^ That seem childish to you, TNO?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 07:03:49 PM
Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 03, 2008, 07:41:54 PM
Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.

They are naive because they are against development qua development. And dangerous because they will violate the rights of anyone who believes otherwise and use force against them.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 08:13:53 PM
Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.


these kids arent 'potentialy dangerous' .. they are far, far beyond that and have been for years. and this wasnt about land development; it was because the ELF idiots thought the houses were supposed to "built green" with energy saving stuff in them.

i'd like to see where these kids actually live. my bet is, most of their parents are middle to upper middle income and they have been under the care of auspicious professors.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lacarnut on March 03, 2008, 08:28:01 PM


I belive terrorist belong in jail and murdering terrorist deserve death. While shooting an arsonist "on site" is extreme and IMO wrong, treating them like children is more extreme and more immoral.


[/quote]

Let's put it this way; if someone tried to burn my house down, the coroner would be inspecting 9 bullet holes in them.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Ptarmigan on March 03, 2008, 08:31:00 PM
If they hate pollution, than why burn down houses? That releases a lot of pollution. Anyways, no one died. The next arson by ELF could result in death. They should be treated like Al-Qaeda. Sadly, ACC is right, ELF has no central group, which makes it hard to infiltrate and destroy. I am a little surprised they left a sign at the crime scene.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 08:54:39 PM
If they hate pollution, than why burn down houses? That releases a lot of pollution. Anyways, no one died. The next arson by ELF could result in death. They should be treated like Al-Qaeda. Sadly, ACC is right, ELF has no central group, which makes it hard to infiltrate and destroy. I am a little surprised they left a sign at the crime scene.


they always leave a note. and many of them have actually been prosecuted. youre correct that they arent a formed unit, but some of them are in prison and some are awaiting trial.

the kids who did this arson today in Woodinville will most likely be caught.. but it wont be national news, it will be more local.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Ptarmigan on March 03, 2008, 08:56:46 PM

they always leave a note. and many of them have actually been prosecuted. youre correct that they arent a formed unit, but some of them are in prison and some are awaiting trial.

the kids who did this arson today in Woodinville will most likely be caught.. but it wont be national news, it will be more local.

Oh okay. Didn't think they did. Good thing some are in prison or awaiting trial.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 09:03:26 PM
Greta has the story on her show, top of the hour right now..
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 03, 2008, 09:04:21 PM
Quote
Lacarnut-
Let's put it this way; if someone tried to burn my house down, the coroner would be inspecting 9 bullet holes in them.


That's fine and good. I agree with that in fact. Sorry for the confusion, I read it as these guys should be shot on site after the fact. It's moral to protect your life and property. 

- Edited for messed up quote section
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 09:09:25 PM
Brianna Waters is on trial right now for being an ELF lookout during the bombing of a UW lab... just heard that bit on Greta's show.

Ms. Waters tried to have the case thrown out after news broke today of the latest arson. That was denied.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004136283_uwarson21m.html

Quote
Arson suspect facing trial
By Hal Bernton

Seattle Times staff reporter

In the predawn hours of May 21, 2001, Briana Waters says, she was nowhere near the University of Washington campus in Seattle and was most likely asleep in Olympia.

Federal prosecutors say Waters served as a lookout that morning for a five-person Earth Liberation Front team that set fire to the UW's Center for Urban Horticulture.

Next month, in a federal courtroom in Tacoma, the 32-year-old violin teacher is scheduled to face trial for her alleged role in an attack that caused more than $1.5 million in damage to the university's building.

Waters faces charges of conspiracy, arson and use of a destructive device in a crime of violence. If convicted on all counts, she faces a mandatory prison sentence of 35 years.

It would be the first trial for any of the 18 men and women indicted on a charge of their alleged involvement in a militant Pacific Northwest underground that carried out more than a dozen acts of arson and sabotage against targets deemed a threat to the environment or animals. The attacks caused tens of millions of dollars in damage.


more at the link above ..
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 09:15:51 PM
and here is the money shot i just read in the article above..

Quote
Waters, who grew up outside of Philadelphia, attended The Evergreen State College.



 boy, i sure didnt see that coming..  :whatever:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 09:23:02 PM
Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Whoa! Back up. I am not suggesting that what ELF does is not destructive or potentially dangerous. I called ELF's actions childish because they demonstrate that the group is naive to believe that it can stop land development by destroying property.

Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: TheSarge on March 03, 2008, 09:24:54 PM

Your dismissal of these acts as childish show your true colors. I would assume you'd dismiss the actions of Weather Underground, SLA, and the Black Panther Party as childish as well.

Typical Liberal selective outrage and faux indignation.

ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 03, 2008, 09:39:48 PM
The NYT's is showing their colors too...
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/03/03/nyt-term-eco-terrorists-anti-sprawl-activists

NYT Term for Eco-Terrorists: 'Anti-Sprawl Activists'
By Mark Finkelstein

Quote
Opening paragraph from the New York Times article on the eco-terrorists who burned three new homes north of Seattle today

For people who are anti-sprawl activists — or have baser motives — a new-built house sitting empty in a previously rural area evidently makes a ripe target for an attack by fire.

Consider also the article's headline "House Fires With a Message in the Northwest." Yes, think of it as a bonus. Not just a housefire . . . a housefire with a message!

Even the Associated Press manages to say it like it is in its article on the matter. AP headline: "Ecoterror Link Eyed in Wash. Fires."

Fires gutted three multimillion-dollar model homes in a Seattle suburb on Monday, and authorities found a sign purportedly left by eco-terrorists that mocks claims that the homes were environmentally friendly.

The Times can't bring itself to call these people what they are. They're not terrorists, just "activists" sending a "message." Imagine if the "activists" had been promoting a cause the Times abhors. Odds it would have handled matters in the same understanding way?


Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 03, 2008, 09:49:18 PM
anti sprawl activists.... hmm.. it just doesnt role off the tongue like 'eco terrorist' does.

i'm sticking with eco terrorist.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 10:57:56 PM
Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.

The word naive is a synonym of the word childish.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 11:00:46 PM
Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.

The word naive is a synonym of the word childish.

Delicacy is probably a synonym of the word sustenance, and even though fecal matter is a necessary sustenance for baby elephants, you wouldn't exactly call it a delicacy, would you?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 11:06:18 PM
ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Quote
Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 11:12:14 PM
Delicacy is probably a synonym of the word sustenance, and even though fecal matter is a necessary sustenance for baby elephants, you wouldn't exactly call it a delicacy, would you?

The word delicacy is not a synonym of the word sustenance. The two words are not even close in meaning.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 11:14:22 PM

Childish behavior such as playing with matches has cost human lives.

.....and any such event is usually unintentional. The key word being "intentional". These ****ers are INTENTIONALLY burning shit down, spiking logs, etc. They are terrorists and they should be treated as such.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 11:19:04 PM
Delicacy is probably a synonym of the word sustenance, and even though fecal matter is a necessary sustenance for baby elephants, you wouldn't exactly call it a delicacy, would you?

The word delicacy is not a synonym of the word sustenance. The two words are not even close in meaning.

Really? Sustenance has many meanings. One being food. Delicacy has many meanings, one being food. I see the correlation between childish and naive as being the same. You dismiss the acts of the E.L.F. as childish. That is bullshit and says a lot about you. What would you say if we dismissed the harassing tactics by the Klan as "childish"? It's malicious and terroristic shit and should be dealt with as such. YOU only dismiss it because you are a radical liberal. Anything to support the cause, eh?  :whatever:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Atomic Lib Smasher on March 03, 2008, 11:20:47 PM

Childish behavior such as playing with matches has cost human lives.

.....and any such event is usually unintentional. The key word being "intentional". These ****ers are INTENTIONALLY burning shit down, spiking logs, etc. They are terrorists and they should be treated as such.


I got Turd Nugget Omelet on ignore, but is this mother****er DEFENDING those ELF scumbags? Is that what I'm reading in the quotes here?????


 
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 03, 2008, 11:22:22 PM
Delicacy is probably a synonym of the word sustenance, and even though fecal matter is a necessary sustenance for baby elephants, you wouldn't exactly call it a delicacy, would you?

The word delicacy is not a synonym of the word sustenance. The two words are not even close in meaning.

You don't really understand words outside of Rogets, do you?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 11:25:28 PM
.....and any such event is usually unintentional. The key word being "intentional". These ****ers are INTENTIONALLY burning shit down, spiking logs, etc. They are terrorists and they should be treated as such.

The point I'm making is that childish behavior is not necessarily harmless behavior. Moreover, I described ELF as childish not to suggest that ELF is harmless but to argue that ELF is naive.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 11:31:51 PM
.....and any such event is usually unintentional. The key word being "intentional". These ****ers are INTENTIONALLY burning shit down, spiking logs, etc. They are terrorists and they should be treated as such.

The point I'm making is that childish behavior is not necessarily harmless behavior. Moreover, I described ELF as childish not to suggest that ELF is harmless but to argue that ELF is naive.

Yeah, that's it. Just youthful transgressions.  :whatever:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 11:35:55 PM
Really? Sustenance has many meanings. One being food. Delicacy has many meanings, one being food.

This is getting ridiculous. No dictionary or thesaurus on planet Earth lists the word delicacy as being a synonym of the word sustenance. Look it up. Or, better yet, test your reasoning. Try using the word delicacy as a replacement for the word sustenance...

If the miners trapped underground do not get some delicacy, they will starve.


See? Replacing the word sustenance with the word delicacy does not make sense because the two words are not synonyms of each other.


Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 11:41:26 PM
Really? Sustenance has many meanings. One being food. Delicacy has many meanings, one being food.

This is getting ridiculous. No dictionary or thesaurus on planet Earth lists the word delicacy as being a synonym of the word sustenance. Look it up. Or, better yet, test your reasoning. Try using the word delicacy as a replacement for the word sustenance...

If the miners trapped underground do not get some delicacy, they will starve.


See? Replacing the word sustenance with the word delicacy does not make sense because the two words are not synonyms of each other.




"This 70 Y/O man is being childish because he actually believes the Democrats are going to protect this nation."

Childish? Or Naive? We can play this ****ing game all day long, TNO.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 11:43:03 PM
Yeah, that's it. Just youthful transgressions.  :whatever:

Since you're obviously bent on distorting my position, I guess I should just let you pretend that I haven't described ELF as a terrorist group which is engaged in destructive and potentially dangerous activity.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 11:45:05 PM
Yeah, that's it. Just youthful transgressions.  :whatever:

Since you're obviously bent on distorting my position, I guess I should just let you pretend that I haven't described ELF as a terrorist group which is engaged in destructive and potentially dangerous activity.



Potentially? No pretending needed. You have equated their actions as just being childish and now, that they are only potentially dangerous.  :whatever:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 03, 2008, 11:46:33 PM
I'm going to bed. Anyone that responds to this fool, please quote him so he can't delete the shit he posts.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 11:52:43 PM
"This 70 Y/O man is being childish because he actually believes the Democrats are going to protect this nation."

Childish? Or Naive? We can play this ******* game all day long, TNO.

The fact that synonymous words are not interchangeable with each other in every sentence imaginable does not mean that the words are not synonyms. But the word delicacy and the word sustenance cannot be used interchangeably in any sentence. The words just aren't close enough in meaning.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 03, 2008, 11:58:56 PM
Potentially? No pretending needed. You have equated their actions as just being childish and now, that they are only potentially dangerous.  :whatever:

I describe ELF's activities as potentially dangerous because they aren't done with the intent to cause bodily harm... but the potential for that kind of harm is there.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Attero Dominatus on March 04, 2008, 12:01:34 AM
Potentially? No pretending needed. You have equated their actions as just being childish and now, that they are only potentially dangerous.  :whatever:

I describe ELF's activities as potentially dangerous because they aren't done with the intent to cause bodily harm... but the potential for that kind of harm is there.

They know fully that the structures they are targeting could have people inside.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 04, 2008, 12:29:23 AM
Potentially? No pretending needed. You have equated their actions as just being childish and now, that they are only potentially dangerous.  :whatever:

I describe ELF's activities as potentially dangerous because they aren't done with the intent to cause bodily harm... but the potential for that kind of harm is there.

So property damage is just "potentially dangerous?"  You got a couple of million dollars on you to make up for the loss?  If terrorists burned down your home and you had to spend thousands (I won't go to millions -- we all know you ain't in that bracket) of dollars, lost irreplaceable items,  had to spend thousands of your own hours to try to get back to where you started, would you say "well, i's all good -- no one was hurt"?

Or maybe you are too young to own property.  But picture that happening to your Mom or Dad. Would that be just "potentially dangerous?" No real loss here, folks, just stuff.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 12:50:01 AM
So property damage is just "potentially dangerous?"  You got a couple of million dollars on you to make up for the loss?  If terrorists burned down your home and you had to spend thousands (I won't go to millions -- we all know you ain't in that bracket) of dollars, lost irreplaceable items,  had to spend thousands of your own hours to try to get back to where you started, would you say "well, i's all good -- no one was hurt"?

Or maybe you are too young to own property.  But picture that happening to your Mom or Dad. Would that be just "potentially dangerous?" No real loss here, folks, just stuff.


Are my words invisible or something? I have described ELF as both destructive and potentially dangerous. And, I have defined ELF as a terrorist group. I have not suggested that ELF's actions are in any way good or that they do not cause harm or loss. Stop distorting what I'm saying.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 04, 2008, 12:56:53 AM
So property damage is just "potentially dangerous?"  You got a couple of million dollars on you to make up for the loss?  If terrorists burned down your home and you had to spend thousands (I won't go to millions -- we all know you ain't in that bracket) of dollars, lost irreplaceable items,  had to spend thousands of your own hours to try to get back to where you started, would you say "well, i's all good -- no one was hurt"?

Or maybe you are too young to own property.  But picture that happening to your Mom or Dad. Would that be just "potentially dangerous?" No real loss here, folks, just stuff.


Are my words invisible or something? I have described ELF as both destructive and potentially dangerous. And, I have defined ELF as a terrorist group. I have not suggested that ELF's actions are in any way good or that they do not cause harm or loss. Stop distorting what I'm saying.

We have a problem with the "potentially" part.  ELF is destructive and dangerous.  Period.

State that without the qualifier and we'll let you off the hook.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Attero Dominatus on March 04, 2008, 01:09:00 AM
So property damage is just "potentially dangerous?"  You got a couple of million dollars on you to make up for the loss?  If terrorists burned down your home and you had to spend thousands (I won't go to millions -- we all know you ain't in that bracket) of dollars, lost irreplaceable items,  had to spend thousands of your own hours to try to get back to where you started, would you say "well, i's all good -- no one was hurt"?

Or maybe you are too young to own property.  But picture that happening to your Mom or Dad. Would that be just "potentially dangerous?" No real loss here, folks, just stuff.


Are my words invisible or something? I have described ELF as both destructive and potentially dangerous. And, I have defined ELF as a terrorist group. I have not suggested that ELF's actions are in any way good or that they do not cause harm or loss. Stop distorting what I'm saying.

The ELF is dangerous.[/b]. They know damn well they could hurt or kill people or animals through their activities and you know this.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 04, 2008, 06:26:08 AM
Kind of important to remember here that just because there was an ELF sign, it doesn't mean ELF did it; not saying this is the case here, but if you wanted to burn down a place for insurance money because you could make more that way than by selling it in current market conditions, it only costs an additional ten bucks on top of the gas for a bedsheet and a can of spray paint, a very sound investment by any measure.
Of course ELF is quite capable of being destructive and stupid enough to have done this, but let's cool our jets a bit until there are some actual facts.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 04, 2008, 07:09:06 AM
"This 70 Y/O man is being childish because he actually believes the Democrats are going to protect this nation."

Childish? Or Naive? We can play this ******* game all day long, TNO.

The fact that synonymous words are not interchangeable with each other in every sentence imaginable does not mean that the words are not synonyms. But the word delicacy and the word sustenance cannot be used interchangeably in any sentence. The words just aren't close enough in meaning.

Will replacing delicacy with dessert help your limited thought process?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: TheSarge on March 04, 2008, 07:12:59 AM


I got Turd Nugget Omelet on ignore, but is this mother****** DEFENDING those ELF scumbags? Is that what I'm reading in the quotes here?????


 

You are correct.  He's playing off what they are doing as merely "childish".

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 04, 2008, 07:14:09 AM
.....and any such event is usually unintentional. The key word being "intentional". These ****ers are INTENTIONALLY burning shit down, spiking logs, etc. They are terrorists and they should be treated as such.

The point I'm making is that childish behavior is not necessarily harmless behavior. Moreover, I described ELF as childish not to suggest that ELF is harmless but to argue that ELF is naive.


...and a few posts back you said that childish was a synonym for naive.   :whatever:

Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.

The word naive is a synonym of the word childish.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 07:54:43 AM
You are correct.  He's playing off what they are doing as merely "childish".

Wrong. You're ignoring the context of what I wrote. My contention that ELF's activities are childish was made in a statement intended to argue that ELF is wrong to think that their methods will stop development.

Read...

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 04, 2008, 08:04:07 AM
You are correct.  He's playing off what they are doing as merely "childish".

Wrong. You're ignoring the context of what I wrote. My contention that ELF's activities are childish was made in a statement intended to argue that ELF is wrong to think that their methods will stop development.

Read...

The amount of pollution caused by even a very large structure fire is too small to have an impact on the atmosphere. That said, people in ELF are idiots if they think that their childish activities are going to bring about the result they desire.



So, was the Klan just being childish when they lit crosses in the yards of black people to terrorize them?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 08:20:07 AM
So, was the Klan just being childish when they lit crosses in the yards of black people to terrorize them?

Burning crosses on property owned or occupied by blacks is intimidation. Believing, as the KKK did, that burning crosses on property owned or occupied by blacks can bring about a white Christian reformation in the US is childish.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 04, 2008, 09:30:17 AM
ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Quote
Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.


ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DixieBelle on March 04, 2008, 09:33:48 AM
ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Quote
Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.


ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?


He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  :whatever: Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 04, 2008, 09:37:12 AM
ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Quote
Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.


ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?



I just got told we are "splitting hairs" by him when I brought up that argument in the Shoutbox.  ::)
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 09:37:15 AM
He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  :whatever: Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.

Apparently, you, in your self-righteous zeal to malign me, missed the part where I defined ELF as a terrorist group. I believe that members of ELF who destroy or vandalize property should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 04, 2008, 09:42:14 AM
He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  :whatever: Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.

Apparently, you, in your self-righteous zeal to malign me, missed the part where I defined ELF as a terrorist group. I believe that members of ELF who destroy or vandalize property should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


do you, or do you not, only equate body count with how severe these people are? it appears you have no regard for property or the hundreds of years of research they destroyed at the university.

they thought a science guy there was genetically engineering trees and whooops! he wasnt.

do you forgive their childish misdeed cause nobody was hurt?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 09:59:06 AM
do you, or do you not, only equate body count with how severe these people are?

Yes. Groups which willfully targets human beings for destruction are far worse than a group like ELF which willfully targets structures for destruction.

Are you suggesting that property is as valuable as human life? I hope not.

Quote
do you forgive their childish misdeed cause nobody was hurt?

You righties really are binary thinkers. Just because I don't think that ELF is as bad as groups like al-Qaeda doesn't mean that I don't think that ELF is bad.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 04, 2008, 10:02:01 AM
You righties really are binary thinkers. Just because I don't think that ELF is as bad as groups like al-Qaeda doesn't mean that I don't think that ELF is bad.

...but you discount them as acting childishly. There's nothing childish about burning down buildings.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DixieBelle on March 04, 2008, 10:11:07 AM
He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  :whatever: Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.

Apparently, you, in your self-righteous zeal to malign me, missed the part where I defined ELF as a terrorist group. I believe that members of ELF who destroy or vandalize property should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
You don't anyone's help maligning yourself. Keep stepping in it pal.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DixieBelle on March 04, 2008, 10:16:28 AM
TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 10:33:52 AM
TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.

Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DixieBelle on March 04, 2008, 10:58:02 AM
TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.

Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.
Yes, I forgot about that tactic.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 11:05:35 AM
TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.

Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.
Yes, I forgot about that tactic.

And what TNO thinks about tree spiking

Quote
Tue 10:44] <The Night Owl> tree spiking is clearly an act of terrorism as it is done with the intent of scaring people out of cutting down trees
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 11:31:04 AM
Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.

How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 11:32:32 AM
You righties really are binary thinkers. Just because I don't think that ELF is as bad as groups like al-Qaeda doesn't mean that I don't think that ELF is bad.

...but you discount them as acting childishly. There's nothing childish about burning down buildings.

Burning down buildings is not, in and of itself, childish behavior. Believing that burning down buildings is an activity which can bring about political change is childish.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 04, 2008, 12:18:47 PM
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul.  :whatever:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 04, 2008, 12:25:50 PM
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul.  :whatever:


i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 04, 2008, 12:27:40 PM
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul.  :whatever:


i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.

I'd like to know where he gets all that information.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 04, 2008, 12:29:44 PM
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul.  :whatever:


i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.

I'd like to know where he gets all that information.
Maybe ELF gives members a handbook of tree spiking when they join?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DixieBelle on March 04, 2008, 12:35:55 PM
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul.  :whatever:


i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.

I'd like to know where he gets all that information.
I don't know but I imagine a very ill-informed and misguided libtard scouring the interwebs looking for any information that helps him speak truth to power. He really thinks he's here to impart some sort of "wisdom" I believe.  :whatever:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 12:37:59 PM
How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

Not sure. I would imagine a few, also many will have been injured.


Quote
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them.


Not usually. Also spikes will be placed higher than the 1-3 feet off the ground where the tree will be cut. Also the use of concrete and ceramic spikes have been being used to avoid when usually at the mill the metal detectors are being used.

Quote
Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators.


Not really. Yeah there is a chain brake that you hope stops the chain and also a plastic hand guard on the brake, neither completely prevent injury to the operator. The biggest safety factor for chainsaws is safety chain, and loggers don't use it.

Quote
Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut.


I see you have no idea where trees are cut in the logging industry.

Quote
Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Your point??
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 12:40:36 PM
How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

Not sure. I would imagine a few, also many will have been injured.


Why use your imagination to answer a question which requires a little bit of research?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 04, 2008, 12:46:11 PM
Why use your imagination to answer a question which requires a little bit of research?

Like the bullshit you imagined, or intentionally concocted, a few posts up?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 12:48:14 PM
How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

Not sure. I would imagine a few, also many will have been injured.


Why use your imagination to answer a question which requires a little bit of research?

Well from what I've seen is three confirmed deaths from spiking.

Also numerous injuries from spiking. Many more close calls that would have resulted in injury or death.

I can tell you first hand what happens to a 120cc saw with a 36" bar with skip tooth chisel when it hits a spike in a Douglas Fir. It wasn't pretty and had I not been driving a wedge also I probably wouldn't be here today.

So what all do you know about logging and tree spikes......any first hand accounts?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 01:55:58 PM
Well from what I've seen is three confirmed deaths from spiking.

Also numerous injuries from spiking. Many more close calls that would have resulted in injury or death.

Really? I have come across only one report of a tree spiking causing injury and no reports of tree spikings causing deaths. Feel free to point out any news reports of deaths or injuries caused by tree spikings.

Quote
So what all do you know about logging and tree spikes......any first hand accounts?

I have no way of verifying what you say. If tree spikes have caused deaths and injuries, then you should have no trouble producing news articles about those deaths and injuries.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 04, 2008, 02:03:54 PM
Let's get back to this:

Quote
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

I know you libs like the throw some off the wall bullshit out there when you think it'll somehow strengthen your point, but once you're challenged, you completely change direction, but I'm not letting you off that easily.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 02:18:33 PM

So what all do you know about logging and tree spikes......any first hand accounts?


I have no way of verifying what you say. If tree spikes have caused deaths and injuries, then you should have no trouble producing news articles about those deaths and injuries.

Why not start with answering the question asked.

Do YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT LOGGING AND TREE SPIKES?

Just because things aren't on the internet doesn't make them not true, and just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true.

Quote
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

Also are you calling me a liar because you can't confirm what I said? I have cut into a quite a few Fir, Hemlock, Madrona, Alder and Red Cedar that had spikes in all different locations. You will not find any news articles on this. They have caused many dfferent reactions and damage to my saws. A few of them were in what if's just because of doing things when the kick backs happened.

So again do YOU know anything about logging and chainsaws other than what's on the internet?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 02:24:27 PM
Another thing TNO,................Do you have any idea what Power heads, Bars, chain, wedges, calks, spurs, harnesses, bar oil, 2 cycle mix, axes, files etc cost when you are logging?

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 02:29:47 PM
Let's get back to this:

Quote
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

I know you libs like the throw some off the wall bullshit out there when you think it'll somehow strengthen your point, but once you're challenged, you completely change direction, but I'm not letting you off that easily.

Those have been answered and ignored in normal liberal fashion
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 02:33:13 PM
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

There you go. As I pointed out, only one injury has occurred as a result of tree spiking.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that tree spiking isn't potentially dangerous. What I'm arguing is that tree spiking is not nearly as dangerous as people here have suggested it is and it is certainly not intended to cause death. The suggestion that tree spiking is attempted murder is hyperbolic.

Quote
Also are you calling me a liar because you can't confirm what I said? I have cut into a quite a few Fir, Hemlock, Madrona, Alder and Red Cedar that had spikes in all different locations. You will not find any news articles on this. They have caused many dfferent reactions and damage to my saws. A few of them were in what if's just because of doing things when the kick backs happened.

So again do YOU know anything about logging and chainsaws other than what's on the internet?


I don't know anything about you. All I'm saying is that if your claiming that tree spiking has resulted in deaths is true, then you should be able to point out information to support that claim.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 04, 2008, 02:33:50 PM
Another thing TNO,................Do you have any idea what Power heads, Bars, chain, wedges, calks, spurs, harnesses, bar oil, 2 cycle mix, axes, files etc cost when you are logging?



TNO has unlimited funds -- he will be personally paying for property damage since it is so inconsequential.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 04, 2008, 03:10:06 PM
The Night Owl...
Quote
Apparently, you, in your self-righteous zeal to malign me, missed the part where I defined ELF as a terrorist group. I believe that members of ELF who destroy or vandalize property should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


I'd like to give you some credit for that. (bolded statement) Also like to say kudos for sticking to your guns in hostile territory and taking on most/all comers. A task made even more difficult when your firing blanks. I kid, I kid. (I gave you credit just now)

Yes. Groups which willfully targets human beings for destruction are far worse than a group like ELF which willfully targets structures for destruction.

Are you suggesting that property is as valuable as human life? I hope not.

I have to call you out on that statement. What you present is a false choice. Here we have a philisophical, and importanly, a fundamental difference. (we, as in, me and you, I'm not speaking for anyone else here at CC) I actually mean to say is that, "property IS life". At the very least, the two are not entirely mutually exclusive.

Geh, let me just lay it out as best as I can...

1st fundamental-
Humans have a "right to life"

2nd fundamental (a derivative of the first)-
Humans have a "right to liberty"

3rd fundamental (a derivative as well)-
Humans have a "right to property"

Human life is a life of a specific kind with specific means of survival. The mind. We don't just adapt to Nature (like plants and animals) we adapt nature to us. And we do so by the process of thought. From caves to skyscrapers, campfires to nuclear power or from the alphabet to the internet. We do so with free will. Plants and animals do not live by choice and thought but by instinct and/or photosynthesis. Humans must live by choice which means we live or die by our capasity to reason.

WTH am I jabbering about? This...

The right to life- Means, no one has the right to club you in the head for no reason.

The right to liberty- Means, no one has the right to interfere with your process of sustaining your life. (productive work)

The right to property- Means, no one has the right to steal, use or destroy the product of your work. It's yours by virtue of the fact that you created it. Thus I say again, "property IS life". Or, at least, the result of a humans self sustaining action.

Now, if given the choice of having my house burned down or having myself burned down, I would choose my house for sure. But it is dishonest to claim I have not been robbed of a portion of my life. (all the hours, days and years of productive labor, the planning and the dreams are made an ash-heap) A man who puts a gun at your head and says, "your money or your life" offers that same false choice. He is demanding your life in either case. Your money, the product of your thoughtful labors, so that he may live as a thoughtless parasite.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 03:44:43 PM
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

There you go. As I pointed out, only one injury has occurred as a result of tree spiking.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that tree spiking isn't potentially dangerous. What I'm arguing is that tree spiking is not nearly as dangerous as people here have suggested it is and it is certainly not intended to cause death. The suggestion that tree spiking is attempted murder is hyperbolic.
[/qoute]

Quote
A 12-foot section of the huge sawblade had broken off and hit George in the throat and face, ripping through his face mask and cutting into his jugular vein. His jaw was broken in five places and a dozen teeth were knocked out. The blade was wrapped around him, and his co-workers had to blowtorch it off while they tried to keep him from bleeding to death.

"The saw hit me flat," said George. "If it had hit me with the teeth I'd be dead. I'm only here because my friend Rich Phillips held my veins together in the hour before the ambulance came."

Let this just sink in for awhile.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 04, 2008, 05:04:44 PM
I have to call you out on that statement. What you present is a false choice. Here we have a philisophical, and importanly, a fundamental difference. (we, as in, me and you, I'm not speaking for anyone else here at CC) I actually mean to say is that, "property IS life". At the very least, the two are not entirely mutually exclusive.

Well, I agree with some of what you're saying. I just think that even if we label ELF as being terrorist group, I don't think we should lump them together with terrorist groups which target human beings. Our laws consider intent for a reason... intent matters. Someone who does something stupid which causes injury or death is not in the same category of someone who commits murder.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Attero Dominatus on March 04, 2008, 05:10:49 PM
ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Quote
Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.


ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?



The Dumb Owl is like all other leftists. Facts will not change its mind. It will just continue spewing the usual bullshit.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lacarnut on March 04, 2008, 05:38:13 PM

Well, I agree with some of what you're saying. I just think that even if we label ELF as being terrorist group,

There is no if's and's or but's. The ELF is a terrorist group and for you imply otherwise makes you a raving moonbat crazy liberal wackoo.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 04, 2008, 05:52:49 PM
I have to call you out on that statement. What you present is a false choice. Here we have a philisophical, and importanly, a fundamental difference. (we, as in, me and you, I'm not speaking for anyone else here at CC) I actually mean to say is that, "property IS life". At the very least, the two are not entirely mutually exclusive.

Well, I agree with some of what you're saying. I just think that even if we label ELF as being terrorist group, I don't think we should lump them together with terrorist groups which target human beings. Our laws consider intent for a reason... intent matters. Someone who does something stupid which causes injury or death is not in the same category of someone who commits murder.

Sure. For example, a drunk driver vs  a Mob hit. (intent matters)

With ELF, at least in there actions so far, the intent is self declared. There intent was to destroy (by arson, tree spikes, etc) there intent was to bring about terror, again self declared (by calling card, manifesto, graffitti) and they threw in the motive for the crime as well. (their politics are beside the point, a crime is a crime is a crime) So the maximum penilty under the law for each of arson, domestic terrorism, a boatload of conspiracy charges, (if not murder, see "intent", then...) reckless endangerment and any number of other charges someone who knows about the law (see, not me) might throw at them up to tresspasing and littering.

Also, should (see, when) they eventually do kill someone they can still be nailed in Tort Law where the standard of proof for intent is much, much lower. If it's the usual "trust fund" baby crowd they can hear about ma and pa going broke while they rot in jail for life on consecutive sentences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort_law
Quote
Negligence means conduct that is culpable because it misses the legal standard required of a reasonable person in protecting individuals against foreseeably risky, harmful acts of other members of society
or
Quote
Intentional torts are any intentional acts that are reasonably foreseeable to cause harm to an individual, and that do so.

or
Quote
Property torts involve any intentional interference with the property rights of the claimant.
or
Quote
The tort of nuisance allows a claimant (formerly plaintiff) to sue for most acts that interfere with their use and enjoyment of their land.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: TheSarge on March 04, 2008, 06:21:33 PM

I'd like to know where he gets all that information.

It almost sounds like he's getting it from one of their brochures.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 04, 2008, 06:53:03 PM
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

There you go. As I pointed out, only one injury has occurred as a result of tree spiking.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that tree spiking isn't potentially dangerous. What I'm arguing is that tree spiking is not nearly as dangerous as people here have suggested it is and it is certainly not intended to cause death. The suggestion that tree spiking is attempted murder is hyperbolic.

Quote
Also are you calling me a liar because you can't confirm what I said? I have cut into a quite a few Fir, Hemlock, Madrona, Alder and Red Cedar that had spikes in all different locations. You will not find any news articles on this. They have caused many dfferent reactions and damage to my saws. A few of them were in what if's just because of doing things when the kick backs happened.

So again do YOU know anything about logging and chainsaws other than what's on the internet?


I don't know anything about you. All I'm saying is that if your claiming that tree spiking has resulted in deaths is true, then you should be able to point out information to support that claim.
Holy cow... so you only found one reported injury on the internet, therefore only one has occurred.   :whatever:  Un-friggin' believable.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 07:04:10 PM
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

There you go. As I pointed out, only one injury has occurred as a result of tree spiking.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that tree spiking isn't potentially dangerous. What I'm arguing is that tree spiking is not nearly as dangerous as people here have suggested it is and it is certainly not intended to cause death. The suggestion that tree spiking is attempted murder is hyperbolic.

Quote
Also are you calling me a liar because you can't confirm what I said? I have cut into a quite a few Fir, Hemlock, Madrona, Alder and Red Cedar that had spikes in all different locations. You will not find any news articles on this. They have caused many dfferent reactions and damage to my saws. A few of them were in what if's just because of doing things when the kick backs happened.

So again do YOU know anything about logging and chainsaws other than what's on the internet?


I don't know anything about you. All I'm saying is that if your claiming that tree spiking has resulted in deaths is true, then you should be able to point out information to support that claim.
Holy cow... so you only found one reported injury on the internet, therefore only one has occurred.   :whatever:  Un-friggin' believable.

I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

I personally have hit 9 spikes while cutting trees. Two of those incidents have thrown the saw from my hand. One other broke my chain.

One was from felling a tree and the other cutting to length for the saw mill.

The one from cutting the tree down I was driving a wedge as I cut, had I not been doing that I would have been in the path of the saw that was turning over 14,000 rpm that went flying.

The other I was running tape for the saw mill lengths............I started cutting and the spike would have been more than 20 feet up the tree and the bar missed me by about 3".

Another incident had a spike in a tree while I was limbing, broke my chain that was 72" and it went flying in front of me. Had that chain broken on the other side of the bar it would have hit me.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 04, 2008, 07:09:52 PM
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

There you go. As I pointed out, only one injury has occurred as a result of tree spiking.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that tree spiking isn't potentially dangerous. What I'm arguing is that tree spiking is not nearly as dangerous as people here have suggested it is and it is certainly not intended to cause death. The suggestion that tree spiking is attempted murder is hyperbolic.

Quote
Also are you calling me a liar because you can't confirm what I said? I have cut into a quite a few Fir, Hemlock, Madrona, Alder and Red Cedar that had spikes in all different locations. You will not find any news articles on this. They have caused many dfferent reactions and damage to my saws. A few of them were in what if's just because of doing things when the kick backs happened.

So again do YOU know anything about logging and chainsaws other than what's on the internet?


I don't know anything about you. All I'm saying is that if your claiming that tree spiking has resulted in deaths is true, then you should be able to point out information to support that claim.
Holy cow... so you only found one reported injury on the internet, therefore only one has occurred.   :whatever:  Un-friggin' believable.

I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

I personally have hit 9 spikes while cutting trees. Two of those incidents have thrown the saw from my hand. One other broke my chain.

One was from felling a tree and the other cutting to length for the saw mill.

The one from cutting the tree down I was driving a wedge as I cut, had I not been doing that I would have been in the path of the saw that was turning over 14,000 rpm that went flying.

The other I was running tape for the saw mill lengths............I started cutting and the spike would have been more than 20 feet up the tree and the bar missed me by about 3".

Another incident had a spike in a tree while I was limbing, broke my chain that was 72" and it went flying in front of me. Had that chain broken on the other side of the bar it would have hit me.
I have no problem believing you.  TNO on the other (left) hand won't unless there is a story to back you up on the internet.  What a sad e-life.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 04, 2008, 08:02:25 PM
ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Quote
Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.


ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?



The Dumb Owl is like all other leftists. Facts will not change its mind. It will just continue spewing the usual bullshit.


i think the problem lies here; TNO sees shades of gray in what ELF is doing. the rest of us see it as right and wrong.

ELF has killed animals but their intent was to free them.

ELF has burned tens of thousands of dollars in homes, using firebombs are I am not at all sure no one has been killed so far. I havent researched all of their escapades over the years.. but their intent is to firebomb and cause as much financial hurt on companies as they can. i guess when they finally get 'unlucky enough' to kill someone, if they havent already, TNO will yet again see it as an accident. since their intentions were clearly NOT to kill someone, but to destroy their life and livelihood.  :whatever:

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 04, 2008, 08:04:35 PM
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

There you go. As I pointed out, only one injury has occurred as a result of tree spiking.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that tree spiking isn't potentially dangerous. What I'm arguing is that tree spiking is not nearly as dangerous as people here have suggested it is and it is certainly not intended to cause death. The suggestion that tree spiking is attempted murder is hyperbolic.

Quote
Also are you calling me a liar because you can't confirm what I said? I have cut into a quite a few Fir, Hemlock, Madrona, Alder and Red Cedar that had spikes in all different locations. You will not find any news articles on this. They have caused many dfferent reactions and damage to my saws. A few of them were in what if's just because of doing things when the kick backs happened.

So again do YOU know anything about logging and chainsaws other than what's on the internet?


I don't know anything about you. All I'm saying is that if your claiming that tree spiking has resulted in deaths is true, then you should be able to point out information to support that claim.
Holy cow... so you only found one reported injury on the internet, therefore only one has occurred.   :whatever:  Un-friggin' believable.

I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

I personally have hit 9 spikes while cutting trees. Two of those incidents have thrown the saw from my hand. One other broke my chain.

One was from felling a tree and the other cutting to length for the saw mill.

The one from cutting the tree down I was driving a wedge as I cut, had I not been doing that I would have been in the path of the saw that was turning over 14,000 rpm that went flying.

The other I was running tape for the saw mill lengths............I started cutting and the spike would have been more than 20 feet up the tree and the bar missed me by about 3".

Another incident had a spike in a tree while I was limbing, broke my chain that was 72" and it went flying in front of me. Had that chain broken on the other side of the bar it would have hit me.

using TNO debate tactics; "you didnt get hurt, so their intention clearly was not to kill you"

i think TNO is a defense lawyers wet dream of a stupid jury.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 04, 2008, 08:21:19 PM
In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. (18 U.S. Code 1864).

There you go. As I pointed out, only one injury has occurred as a result of tree spiking.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that tree spiking isn't potentially dangerous. What I'm arguing is that tree spiking is not nearly as dangerous as people here have suggested it is and it is certainly not intended to cause death. The suggestion that tree spiking is attempted murder is hyperbolic.

Quote
Also are you calling me a liar because you can't confirm what I said? I have cut into a quite a few Fir, Hemlock, Madrona, Alder and Red Cedar that had spikes in all different locations. You will not find any news articles on this. They have caused many dfferent reactions and damage to my saws. A few of them were in what if's just because of doing things when the kick backs happened.

So again do YOU know anything about logging and chainsaws other than what's on the internet?


I don't know anything about you. All I'm saying is that if your claiming that tree spiking has resulted in deaths is true, then you should be able to point out information to support that claim.
Holy cow... so you only found one reported injury on the internet, therefore only one has occurred.   :whatever:  Un-friggin' believable.

I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

I personally have hit 9 spikes while cutting trees. Two of those incidents have thrown the saw from my hand. One other broke my chain.

One was from felling a tree and the other cutting to length for the saw mill.

The one from cutting the tree down I was driving a wedge as I cut, had I not been doing that I would have been in the path of the saw that was turning over 14,000 rpm that went flying.

The other I was running tape for the saw mill lengths............I started cutting and the spike would have been more than 20 feet up the tree and the bar missed me by about 3".

Another incident had a spike in a tree while I was limbing, broke my chain that was 72" and it went flying in front of me. Had that chain broken on the other side of the bar it would have hit me.

using TNO debate tactics; "you didnt get hurt, so their intention clearly was not to kill you"

i think TNO is a defense lawyers wet dream of a stupid jury.

I believe you are correct........and when a chainsaw that houses 120cc's of power with a 36" bar went flying by my head due to a spike out there in the great North West................yep nobody had any reaon to think or try to kill me, they were just deterring me
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Gwitness on March 05, 2008, 12:28:13 AM
and here is the money shot i just read in the article above..

Quote
Waters, who grew up outside of Philadelphia, attended The Evergreen State College.



 boy, i sure didnt see that coming..  :whatever:


seems to be endemic.......I wonder how many Evergreen State students are in fact FBI agents. :-)
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 05, 2008, 07:58:21 AM
I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

Well, put up your reference.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2008, 08:09:52 AM
I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

Well, put up your reference.

Quote
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

You first.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 05, 2008, 08:19:20 AM
Quote
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

You first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2008, 08:32:47 AM
Quote
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

You first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking

Saying "some" doesn't back up your claim.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 05, 2008, 08:50:24 AM
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that.

Quote
First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them.


Ah the smug know it all retort, yet the refrence you give says that SOME saw mills check logs with metal detectors. So nowhere does it say that the loggers check a tree with a metal detector before cutting into them. So I guess there is no fact or truth in your statement.

Quote
Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators.


So what is your refrence(other than it was on wiki) that chain guards prevent the chains from injuring the operator? The chain brakes and hand covering do not prevent chains from injuring the operator, they reduce the risk, but do not prevent. So another untrue statement.

Quote
Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut.


Makes no difference in the swaw mill nor while cutting lengths, yet not mentioned in the wiki article, So is this a half true statement?

Quote
Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.[/b][/size][/color]

Some do and some don't. Also they have to be more specific than an area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking

So you have no idea if the info on wiki is true or not.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 05, 2008, 08:52:22 AM
Wikipedia? Oh please. ::)   Let me tell you something, TNO.   When even colleges, the liberal bastions that they are, don't want their students using Wikipedia as a source (My English prof went on a long rant about the site a couple of weeks ago), that should tell you something about the legitimacy of that site. 

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 05, 2008, 08:52:56 AM
I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

Well, put up your reference.

Reading comprehension a problem with you??
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 05, 2008, 08:56:11 AM
Wikipedia? Oh please. ::)   Let me tell you something, TNO.   When even colleges, the liberal bastions that they are, don't want their students using Wikipedia as a source (My English prof went on a long rant about the site a couple of weeks ago), that should tell you something about the legitimacy of that site. 

Feel free to refute any information in the Wiki entry on tree spiking.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 05, 2008, 08:56:51 AM
and here is the money shot i just read in the article above..

Quote
Waters, who grew up outside of Philadelphia, attended The Evergreen State College.



 boy, i sure didnt see that coming..  :whatever:


seems to be endemic.......I wonder how many Evergreen State students are in fact FBI agents. :-)


the rest of the country doesnt get the embarassing news out of that college very often, but we here in the Emerald City are ever so proud.  :banghead:

and and just for extra info ... Kevin Bacon sent his kid there last year.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 05, 2008, 08:58:56 AM
I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

Well, put up your reference.

Reading comprehension a problem with you??

Yes. I am having trouble comprehending what you wrote. You say you found a reference to three confirmed fatalities caused by tree spiking. What is this reference and what do you mean when you say that you have nothing from it?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 05, 2008, 08:59:56 AM
Saying "some" doesn't back up your claim.

What do you expect? According to Owl, ELF does not target human beings. They merely target the idea that humans have the right to adopt nature to our needs (sustain ourselves) and the idea that humans have a right to private property. (the right to keep the fruits of those labors) That's how  :censored: pro-life they are.  :whatever:

Well, I agree with some of what you're saying. I just think that even if we label ELF as being terrorist group, I don't think we should lump them together with terrorist groups which target human beings.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 05, 2008, 09:00:13 AM
Wikipedia? Oh please. ::)   Let me tell you something, TNO.   When even colleges, the liberal bastions that they are, don't want their students using Wikipedia as a source (My English prof went on a long rant about the site a couple of weeks ago), that should tell you something about the legitimacy of that site. 



i'm not sure TNO knows what a wiki actually is ... but my husband made one for wireless at airports across the world and it became huge. granted, people add all the info themselves as they travel and NOBODY checks the veracity of their claims. its a self correcting tool, or is intended to be.

"intended" ... there's that word TNO loves so much.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 05, 2008, 09:01:45 AM
I can say that's all I found. I also found a refrence to three confirmed deaths, though nothing from that.

Well, put up your reference.

Reading comprehension a problem with you??

Yes. I am having trouble comprehending what you wrote. You say you found a reference to three confirmed fatalities caused by tree spiking. What is this reference and what do you mean when you say that you have nothing from it?

I found a refrence to three deaths, yet I could find nothing more than the refrence, so nothing from that
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 05, 2008, 10:30:49 AM
Wikipedia? Oh please. ::)   Let me tell you something, TNO.   When even colleges, the liberal bastions that they are, don't want their students using Wikipedia as a source (My English prof went on a long rant about the site a couple of weeks ago), that should tell you something about the legitimacy of that site. 



i'm not sure TNO knows what a wiki actually is ... but my husband made one for wireless at airports across the world and it became huge. granted, people add all the info themselves as they travel and NOBODY checks the veracity of their claims. its a self correcting tool, or is intended to be.

"intended" ... there's that word TNO loves so much.

Hence why colleges don't like it too much.  Anything that can be edited in such a manner without veracity is something that can earn you an 'F' on a paper, especially where I am.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Lauri on March 05, 2008, 11:00:59 AM
Wikipedia? Oh please. ::)   Let me tell you something, TNO.   When even colleges, the liberal bastions that they are, don't want their students using Wikipedia as a source (My English prof went on a long rant about the site a couple of weeks ago), that should tell you something about the legitimacy of that site. 



i'm not sure TNO knows what a wiki actually is ... but my husband made one for wireless at airports across the world and it became huge. granted, people add all the info themselves as they travel and NOBODY checks the veracity of their claims. its a self correcting tool, or is intended to be.

"intended" ... there's that word TNO loves so much.

Hence why colleges don't like it too much.  Anything that can be edited in such a manner without veracity is something that can earn you an 'F' on a paper, especially where I am.


yeah, if I were a professor, any Wiki wouldnt be acceptable to me...
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 05, 2008, 11:04:53 AM
Quote
If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

You first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking

Saying "some" doesn't back up your claim.
...and wiki is a pretty weak line of defense.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Gary56 on March 05, 2008, 12:54:20 PM
Naivety isn't a trait owned by "children" and it must never be used as an excuse for malicious and violent behavior. I would suspect if we started using that as an excuse for actions the Klan used to take, you'd be up in arms.

The word naive is a synonym of the word childish.

Actually you would be wrong.  The word naive is NOT a synonym of the word childish.  Naive is lacking sophistication, while childish is immature.  Big difference.

Also, the anology using delicacy and sustenance is closer to being valid in that delicacy and sustenance are related words, not quite synonyms but related in that a delicacy is a type of sustenance. 
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 05, 2008, 01:04:27 PM
Actually you would be wrong.  The word naive is NOT a synonym of the word childish.  Naive is lacking sophistication, while childish is immature.  Big difference.

According to Roget's New Millenium Thesaurus..

Main Entry:   childish
Part of Speech:   adjective
Definition:   immature
Synonyms:   baby, babyish, boyish, childlike, foolish, frivolous, girlish, green, imbecile, infantile, infantine, juvenile, kid stuff*, naive, pedomorphic, petty, prekindergarten, primitive, puerile, silly, simple, slow, soft, stupid, trifling, unsophisticated, weak, young, youthful
Antonyms:   adult, grown-up, mature, wise

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/childish

What happened? Did you just guess that the word naive is not a synomym of the word childish? If so, you guessed wrong. What now? Are you going to argue that the thesaurus is wrong?

Quote
Also, the anology using delicacy and sustenance is closer to being valid in that delicacy and sustenance are related words, not quite synonyms but related in that a delicacy is a type of sustenance.

Feel free to point out any dictionary or thesaurus which lists the words delicacy and sustenance as being either synonyms of each other or related words. As far as I can tell, they are not...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/delicacy
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/delicacy
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/sustenance
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2008, 01:27:38 PM
Main Entry:     delicacy
Part of Speech:     noun 2
Definition:     food
Synonyms:     ambrosia, banquet, bonne bouche, boodle, dainty, delight, dessert, feast, goody, indulgence, luxury, morsel, nectar, pleasure, rarity, regale, relish, savory, special, sweet, tidbit, treat

Main Entry:     sustenance
Part of Speech:     noun
Definition:     necessities
Synonyms:     aid, aliment, bacon*, bread*, comestible, daily bread*, eatables, edibles, food, keep, livelihood, maintenance, nourishment, nutrition, pap*, provender, provision, ration, refreshment, salt*, subsistence, support, victual, wherewithal
Antonyms:     extras

See any similarities?
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 05, 2008, 01:47:06 PM
See any similarities?

That two words have similarities does not make them synonyms of each other.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DixieBelle on March 05, 2008, 01:48:45 PM
Mmmm....bacon!

Sorry! I couldnt' resist piling on the awesome ridiculousness!!! :-)
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: TheSarge on March 05, 2008, 01:54:06 PM

That two words have similarities does not make them synonyms of each other.

Everybody...TNO that means you too...get back on the damn topic and quit letting TNO derail this thread with Bullsh*t red herrings...everyone else...quit taking the bait.

Otherwise this goes to fight club where you can girl fight over synonym and similarities all day long.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2008, 02:06:58 PM
Now TNO is acting like a f'n Jr. High Debate flunkee who doesn't understand cognitive reasoning.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: The Night Owl on March 05, 2008, 02:16:07 PM
Did I screw up again?

:banghead:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Attero Dominatus on March 05, 2008, 02:34:34 PM
Did I screw up again?

:banghead:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: LC EFA on March 05, 2008, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: Crazy Horse
I believe you are correct........and when a chainsaw that houses 120cc's of power with a 36" bar went flying by my head due to a spike out there in the great North West................yep nobody had any reaon to think or try to kill me, they were just deterring me

That's a monster chainsaw. Double the CC's and about an extra foot on my biggest saw.

I've hit a metal star-picket inside a tree before (the tree grew around it but that's besides the point) , If I hadn't have been doing a plunge cut, and had the chain bind inside the tree it'd  de-limb me just as easily as any tree.

People that put spikes in trees are intending for the people that process that tree to be injured / killed as a deterrent to cutting down more trees. Groups that do this type of activity, won't mark all the trees they've spiked and will generally only tell the company harvesting that area that some trees have been spiked, so that the spiked trees cannot be singled out and the remainder harvested around them.

Attempted murder and conspiracy attempted murder for the whole lot of em.

Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Chris_ on March 05, 2008, 05:19:16 PM
Quote from: Crazy Horse
I believe you are correct........and when a chainsaw that houses 120cc's of power with a 36" bar went flying by my head due to a spike out there in the great North West................yep nobody had any reaon to think or try to kill me, they were just deterring me

That's a monster chainsaw. Double the CC's and about an extra foot on my biggest saw.

I've hit a metal star-picket inside a tree before (the tree grew around it but that's besides the point) , If I hadn't have been doing a plunge cut, and had the chain bind inside the tree it'd  de-limb me just as easily as any tree.

People that put spikes in trees are intending for the people that process that tree to be injured / killed as a deterrent to cutting down more trees. Groups that do this type of activity, won't mark all the trees they've spiked and will generally only tell the company harvesting that area that some trees have been spiked, so that the spiked trees cannot be singled out and the remainder harvested around them.

Attempted murder and conspiracy attempted murder for the whole lot of em.



Don't you see?  Attempted murder is just that, an attempt.  That is why these people are only potentially dangerous and not really dangerous.  had someone been really killed, then they would graduate to "fairly dangerous."  And since I am super rich at 17 years old, property crimes are no big deal -- I'll pay for the damages myself. /TNO
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: TheSarge on March 05, 2008, 05:26:14 PM
Now TNO is acting like a f'n Jr. High Debate flunkee who doesn't understand cognitive reasoning.

He always does that whenever he's getting his ass handed to him in a debate or he gets backed into a corner he can't get out of.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Crazy Horse on March 05, 2008, 05:40:59 PM
Quote from: Crazy Horse
I believe you are correct........and when a chainsaw that houses 120cc's of power with a 36" bar went flying by my head due to a spike out there in the great North West................yep nobody had any reaon to think or try to kill me, they were just deterring me

That's a monster chainsaw. Double the CC's and about an extra foot on my biggest saw.

I've hit a metal star-picket inside a tree before (the tree grew around it but that's besides the point) , If I hadn't have been doing a plunge cut, and had the chain bind inside the tree it'd  de-limb me just as easily as any tree.

People that put spikes in trees are intending for the people that process that tree to be injured / killed as a deterrent to cutting down more trees. Groups that do this type of activity, won't mark all the trees they've spiked and will generally only tell the company harvesting that area that some trees have been spiked, so that the spiked trees cannot be singled out and the remainder harvested around them.

Attempted murder and conspiracy attempted murder for the whole lot of em.



My smallest saw is 52cc's with a 20" bar and it's my limbing saw. My second biggest saw is 68cc's and I have a 28" and 32" bar for it.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: LC EFA on March 05, 2008, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Crazy Horse
My smallest saw is 52cc's with a 20" bar and it's my limbing saw. My second biggest saw is 68cc's and I have a 28" and 32" bar for it.

My general use saw is 48cc and 20" bar. I have a 30cc 12" , 10 foot , pole saw as well.

Course, they're just round the house saws, I don't harvest timber for a living or anything.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 05, 2008, 07:09:13 PM
Mmmm....bacon!

Sorry! I couldnt' resist piling on the awesome ridiculousness!!! :-)

I like pie.
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2008, 09:18:37 PM
My smallest saw is 52cc's with a 20" bar and it's my limbing saw. My second biggest saw is 68cc's and I have a 28" and 32" bar for it.

All big saws are are an extension of your penis or, .....lack thereof.  :lmao:
Title: Re: "Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State
Post by: Sonnabend on March 07, 2008, 03:09:34 AM
Quote
holes in the ground? 

Soon, I hope.

6 x 6 will do fine.