"Earth Liberation Front" strikes in Washington State

[The Night Owl]

So, was the Klan just being childish when they lit crosses in the yards of black people to terrorize them?

Burning crosses on property owned or occupied by blacks is intimidation. Believing, as the KKK did, that burning crosses on property owned or occupied by blacks can bring about a white Christian reformation in the US is childish.

[Lauri]

ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.

ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?

[DixieBelle]

ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.

ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?

He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.

[Chris_]

ELF costing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage and being guilty of attempted murder with their planting of steel spikes in trees taht are being logged is merely "childish".

Childish behavior can be dangerous. For instance, playing with matches is an example of childish behavior which has cost human lives.

Yet notice how his attitude on domestic terrorism changes when you mention the names McVeigh and Rudolph.

ELF is a terrorist group, but to compare ELF to people like Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, people who willfully targeted human beings, minimizes the magnitude of what those two did.

ELF FIRE BOMBED a University up here... 18 people are on trial. they caused over 7 million dollars worth of damage to a public college.

do you only consider the body count as what 'minimizes the magnitude' of what they do?

I just got told we are "splitting hairs" by him when I brought up that argument in the Shoutbox. 

[The Night Owl]

He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.

Apparently, you, in your self-righteous zeal to malign me, missed the part where I defined ELF as a terrorist group. I believe that members of ELF who destroy or vandalize property should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[Lauri]

He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.

Apparently, you, in your self-righteous zeal to malign me, missed the part where I defined ELF as a terrorist group. I believe that members of ELF who destroy or vandalize property should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

do you, or do you not, only equate body count with how severe these people are? it appears you have no regard for property or the hundreds of years of research they destroyed at the university.

they thought a science guy there was genetically engineering trees and whooops! he wasnt.

do you forgive their childish misdeed cause nobody was hurt?

[The Night Owl]

do you, or do you not, only equate body count with how severe these people are?

Yes. Groups which willfully targets human beings for destruction are far worse than a group like ELF which willfully targets structures for destruction.

Are you suggesting that property is as valuable as human life? I hope not.

do you forgive their childish misdeed cause nobody was hurt?

You righties really are binary thinkers. Just because I don't think that ELF is as bad as groups like al-Qaeda doesn't mean that I don't think that ELF is bad.

[Rebel]

You righties really are binary thinkers. Just because I don't think that ELF is as bad as groups like al-Qaeda doesn't mean that I don't think that ELF is bad.

...but you discount them as acting childishly. There's nothing childish about burning down buildings.

[DixieBelle]

He's wearing his Liberal "everything is subjective glasses".  Apparently he doesn't understand law and order and the fact that arson is illegal and dangerous and not just childish.

Apparently, you, in your self-righteous zeal to malign me, missed the part where I defined ELF as a terrorist group. I believe that members of ELF who destroy or vandalize property should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

You don't anyone's help maligning yourself. Keep stepping in it pal.

[DixieBelle]

TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.

[Crazy Horse]

TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.

Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.

[DixieBelle]

TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.

Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.

Yes, I forgot about that tactic.

[Crazy Horse]

TNO - You assume that just because ELF doesn't "intentionally" target humans, that no one gets hurt. Obviously human beings are more valuable than property. But to dismiss their crimes in the manner that you have because the dwellings weren't occupied is just wrong. I guess someone needs to die in one of their "political statements" before you think they are truly awful and not childish.

Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.

Yes, I forgot about that tactic.

And what TNO thinks about tree spiking

Tue 10:44] <The Night Owl> tree spiking is clearly an act of terrorism as it is done with the intent of scaring people out of cutting down trees

[The Night Owl]

Actually by spiking trees they do intentionally target humans.

How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

[The Night Owl]

You righties really are binary thinkers. Just because I don't think that ELF is as bad as groups like al-Qaeda doesn't mean that I don't think that ELF is bad.

...but you discount them as acting childishly. There's nothing childish about burning down buildings.

Burning down buildings is not, in and of itself, childish behavior. Believing that burning down buildings is an activity which can bring about political change is childish.

[Rebel]

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul. 

[Lauri]

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul. 

i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.

[Rebel]

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul. 

i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.

I'd like to know where he gets all that information.

[Duke Nukum]

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul. 

i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.

I'd like to know where he gets all that information.

Maybe ELF gives members a handbook of tree spiking when they join?

[DixieBelle]

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them. Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators. Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut. Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Ah, so no harm, no foul. 

i'm not putting him on ignore, but i've pretty much given up on seeing any rational thought come out of him.

the best we can hope is once he has kids, a home, pays taxes .. all that big boy stuff, he may put some value on NOT having idiot thugs destroying what he's worked for.

as for ELF, my hope is they are shot in the act next time - before they can do any more damage.

I'd like to know where he gets all that information.

I don't know but I imagine a very ill-informed and misguided libtard scouring the interwebs looking for any information that helps him speak truth to power. He really thinks he's here to impart some sort of "wisdom" I believe. 

[Crazy Horse]

How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

Not sure. I would imagine a few, also many will have been injured.

If tree spiking is done with the intent of trying to kill or harm people then it is not even close to being an effective way to do that. First of all, logging companies check trees with metal detectors before cutting into them.

Not usually. Also spikes will be placed higher than the 1-3 feet off the ground where the tree will be cut. Also the use of concrete and ceramic spikes have been being used to avoid when usually at the mill the metal detectors are being used.

Second, chainsaws are equipped with chain guards to prevent the chains from injuring operators.

Not really. Yeah there is a chain brake that you hope stops the chain and also a plastic hand guard on the brake, neither completely prevent injury to the operator. The biggest safety factor for chainsaws is safety chain, and loggers don't use it.

Third, spikes are usually placed high above the point at which trees are cut.

I see you have no idea where trees are cut in the logging industry.

Fourth, groups which practice tree spiking warn logging companies about which areas are spiked.

Your point??

[The Night Owl]

How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

Not sure. I would imagine a few, also many will have been injured.

Why use your imagination to answer a question which requires a little bit of research?

[Rebel]

Why use your imagination to answer a question which requires a little bit of research?

Like the bullshit you imagined, or intentionally concocted, a few posts up?

[Crazy Horse]

How many people have been killed as a result of a tree spiking? How many people have been injured as a result of a tree spiking?

Not sure. I would imagine a few, also many will have been injured.

Why use your imagination to answer a question which requires a little bit of research?

Well from what I've seen is three confirmed deaths from spiking.

Also numerous injuries from spiking. Many more close calls that would have resulted in injury or death.

I can tell you first hand what happens to a 120cc saw with a 36" bar with skip tooth chisel when it hits a spike in a Douglas Fir. It wasn't pretty and had I not been driving a wedge also I probably wouldn't be here today.

So what all do you know about logging and tree spikes......any first hand accounts?

[The Night Owl]

Well from what I've seen is three confirmed deaths from spiking.

Also numerous injuries from spiking. Many more close calls that would have resulted in injury or death.

Really? I have come across only one report of a tree spiking causing injury and no reports of tree spikings causing deaths. Feel free to point out any news reports of deaths or injuries caused by tree spikings.

So what all do you know about logging and tree spikes......any first hand accounts?

I have no way of verifying what you say. If tree spikes have caused deaths and injuries, then you should have no trouble producing news articles about those deaths and injuries.