OBAMA SUGGESTS GOP WILL USE RACE TO SCARE VOTERS

[Wretched Excess]

I fully understand your point.

I doubt it. 

If you did you wouldn't be making comments like

my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".

doubt all you want.  you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect.  and that strikes me as petulant.

comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid.  in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.

Have you actuallly even read what I posted?

I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.

You can't and we both know it.

I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.


Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.

Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?

your point is, or seems to be,  that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.

and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".

[rich_t]

I fully understand your point.

I doubt it. 

If you did you wouldn't be making comments like

my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".

doubt all you want.  you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect.  and that strikes me as petulant.

comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid.  in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.

Have you actuallly even read what I posted?

I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.

You can't and we both know it.

I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.


Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.

Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?

your point is, or seems to be,  that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.

and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".

I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.

I have never demanded perfection.

[Wretched Excess]

I do live in a swing state.  A pretty important one too.  Ohio.

wonderful.  I hope there are some people in ohio that can actually see the big picture.

Now this I have to chuckle at...  Anyone that doesn't see things your way, is NOT seeing the big picture?

The big picture is merely a matter of perspective WE. 

yeeesh.     you've almost got me putting up a full blown defense of a guy I don't even
care for.   how'd you do that?

anyone that doesn't see how the election that we have before us could have a devastating effect on
the future of  the big picture, yes, in my opinion, lacks perspective.

I've seen that "my way or the highway" mentality in before.

The arrogance that it implies lack of perspective is priceless.

I have never not even ONCE thought that my perspective was the only one allowed.

it's a political board, rich.  we discuss these things here.

but you seem willing to stand idly by and let a "perfect storm" develop; a filibuster proof majority in the senate, 
control in both houses of congress, and the biggest social engineer to come down the pike ever, perhaps, in
the white house, and your reasoning is that there isn't that much of a difference in the parties, or the candidates,
to really have any meaning.

that makes no sense to me.

[Wretched Excess]

I fully understand your point.

I doubt it. 

If you did you wouldn't be making comments like

my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".

doubt all you want.  you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect.  and that strikes me as petulant.

comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid.  in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.

Have you actuallly even read what I posted?

I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.

You can't and we both know it.

I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.


Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.

Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?

your point is, or seems to be,  that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.

and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".

I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.

I have never demanded perfection.

now you're just avoiding my point.

is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?

[DixieBelle]

I have a question rich. I just read the remainder of this thread after my last post.

What exactly would it take to make you vote for McCain?

I'm assuming you are a traditional conservative. You seem to think McCain isn't true to the conservative movement based on his past (He's not my first choice for POTUS - I was a Fred supporter). You also sound like you assume that a McCain Administration wouldn't, at minimum, keep us on the Bush Administration path (negatives aside - there are plenty - I'm talking the things he's done right like GWOT, etc..) or steer us even further back into conservative territory. And for the record, that would mean more fiscal sanity, less govt bloat, keeping our defense strong, reigning in entitlements, respecting state's rights (God Bless Oklahoma while we're here).

If you are taking a principled stance by not voting for McCain, are you prepared to live with the worst case scenario? I think it's fair to say that it could very well end up like described: bumbling Obama Administration, veto-proof Dem majority, SCOTUS retirements, bloated entitlements, higher taxes, etc...

What's your solution? McCain is the GOP nominee. Can he not be worked with? Would his VP choice make any difference? We all know politicians lies. McCain can wax philosophical all day long. So can Obama. That's the part that keeps me up at night.

I'm asking these things because I'm really interested.

[BlueStateSaint]

Why do I say something like that?  Because a President McCain would turn the land where such an attack originated into glass, probably within an hour or two, and that would end the conflict for the time being.

Wishful thinking IMO.

Let's hope that terrorists don't give us a chance to find out.

[rich_t]

I fully understand your point.

I doubt it. 

If you did you wouldn't be making comments like

my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".

doubt all you want.  you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect.  and that strikes me as petulant.

comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid.  in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.

Have you actuallly even read what I posted?

I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.

You can't and we both know it.

I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.


Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.

Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?

your point is, or seems to be,  that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.

and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".

I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.

I have never demanded perfection.

now you're just avoiding my point.

is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?

I do see a difference between the two.  Just not enough difference in several areas that concern me.

I am not trying to paint McCain as a horrible person.  He is simply NOT a conservative in my book and I don't think he will even attempt to lead the country in the right direction with the possible exception of the WOT.  That I think he will do well with.

[Wretched Excess]

I fully understand your point.

I doubt it. 

If you did you wouldn't be making comments like

my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".

doubt all you want.  you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect.  and that strikes me as petulant.

comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid.  in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.

Have you actuallly even read what I posted?

I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.

You can't and we both know it.

I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.


Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.

Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?

your point is, or seems to be,  that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.

and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".

I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.

I have never demanded perfection.

now you're just avoiding my point.

is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?

I do see a difference between the two.  Just not enough difference in several areas that concern me.

I am not trying to paint McCain as a horrible person.  He is simply NOT a conservative in my book and I don't think he will even attempt to lead the country in the right direction with the possible exception of the WOT.  That I think he will do well with.

he's not a conservative in my book, either, rich.  I just see a much less intrusive federal government in a hypothetical mccain administration.  and he understands the nature of the GWOT.  and he's not a clueless newbie (which may or may not actually
a good thing).

but I'm argued out on this one, pal.

[rich_t]

I have a question rich. I just read the remainder of this thread after my last post.

What exactly would it take to make you vote for McCain?

I'm assuming you are a traditional conservative. You seem to think McCain isn't true to the conservative movement based on his past (He's not my first choice for POTUS - I was a Fred supporter). You also sound like you assume that a McCain Administration wouldn't, at minimum, keep us on the Bush Administration path (negatives aside - there are plenty - I'm talking the things he's done right like GWOT, etc..) or steer us even further back into conservative territory. And for the record, that would mean more fiscal sanity, less govt bloat, keeping our defense strong, reigning in entitlements, respecting state's rights (God Bless Oklahoma while we're here).

If you are taking a principled stance by not voting for McCain, are you prepared to live with the worst case scenario? I think it's fair to say that it could very well end up like described: bumbling Obama Administration, veto-proof Dem majority, SCOTUS retirements, bloated entitlements, higher taxes, etc...

What's your solution? McCain is the GOP nominee. Can he not be worked with? Would his VP choice make any difference? We all know politicians lies. McCain can wax philosophical all day long. So can Obama. That's the part that keeps me up at night.

I'm asking these things because I'm really interested.

You ask some good questions.

What would it take for me to vote for McCain (keep in mind that I haven't stated that I won't vote for him.  I am merely leaning in that direction)?

I would be more inclined to vote for him if he did the following:

Change his stance on granting amnesty to illegal aliens.  Oh I know he would prefer to call it by another name, but a turd is still a turd and it still stinks.

Publically state he will fight to keep the Bush tax cuts and make them permament.  He was against them as I recall.

Retract his support of The Lieberman-McCain Climate Stewardship Act.  This myth of global warming is going to bankrupt the country and McCain seems to want to help lead the way.

If I do decide to stand on principle and NOT vote for McCain, yes I am indeed prepared to live with the possible consequences of an Obama presidency.  BTW...  Where would we be as a country if our FF had failed to stand on their principles?

At what point does it become paramount to stand on principle and stop just opting to chose between the lessor of evils?  The only way the so called conservative party is going to regain lost ground is by demanding conservative representation from it's candidates.  

McCain is not a conservative IMO.  He may be to the right of Obama, but that isn't saying much.


One last point....  If I knew for a fact that McCain would nominate true constructionist Justices for SCOTUS and keep fighting until he got them confirmed, I would be much more inclined to vote for him.  But I fear that he will feel obligated to reach across the aisle and nominate left leaning moderates just to placate the Dems.  He has shown that tendancy way to often IMO.

[Wretched Excess]

Publically state he will fight to keep the Bush tax cuts and make them permament.  He was against them as I recall.

he did, in fact, vote against them as a senator, but has pledged to push to make them permanent if elected.

[rich_t]

I fully understand your point.

I doubt it. 

If you did you wouldn't be making comments like

my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".

doubt all you want.  you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect.  and that strikes me as petulant.

comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid.  in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.

Have you actuallly even read what I posted?

I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.

You can't and we both know it.

I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.


Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.

Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?

your point is, or seems to be,  that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.

and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".

I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.

I have never demanded perfection.

now you're just avoiding my point.

is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?

I do see a difference between the two.  Just not enough difference in several areas that concern me.

I am not trying to paint McCain as a horrible person.  He is simply NOT a conservative in my book and I don't think he will even attempt to lead the country in the right direction with the possible exception of the WOT.  That I think he will do well with.

he's not a conservative in my book, either, rich.  I just see a much less intrusive federal government in a hypothetical mccain administration.  and he understands the nature of the GWOT.  and he's not a clueless newbie (which may or may not actually
a good thing).

but I'm argued out on this one, pal.

Fair Nuff.

I enjoyed posting with ya about it.

[rich_t]

Why do I say something like that?  Because a President McCain would turn the land where such an attack originated into glass, probably within an hour or two, and that would end the conflict for the time being.

Wishful thinking IMO.

Let's hope that terrorists don't give us a chance to find out.

A big 10-4 on that one Blue

[Airwolf]

I understand that having McCain as President is far better then having Barry Obama slide his way into the oval office. The Problem however you cut it isn't with getting McCain in it is with the House and Senate. Voting McCain in isn't going to be worth much if the Democrats gain seats in the House and Senate. McCain could appoint anyone he wants to as judge but that person is going to be facing a group of leftist that would make Lenin smile.

The past few days has  shown that getting two more Conservative leaning SC judges in the SCOTUS is too important to leave to someone that voted for two of the four liberal judges that have written the dissenting opinions for the death penalty for child rapist and against the 2nd Amendment. IF McCAin wants to lead this country he should learn from what happened to Bush when he tried to cross the party lines. Also the news media has already turned on him so no matter what he does they'll hate it. McCain stated that he would appoint Judges like Roberts and Alieto but he can't get then in without Conservative suppport in the Senate. Voting for McCain could end up to be a losing propostion no matter what if we the people don't send the people that will support him.

[Lacarnut]

I understand that having McCain as President is far better then having Barry Obama slide his way into the oval office. The Problem however you cut it isn't with getting McCain in it is with the House and Senate. Voting McCain in isn't going to be worth much if the Democrats gain seats in the House and Senate. McCain could appoint anyone he wants to as judge but that person is going to be facing a group of leftist that would make Lenin smile.

The past few days has  shown that getting two more Conservative leaning SC judges in the SCOTUS is too important to leave to someone that voted for two of the four liberal judges that have written the dissenting opinions for the death penalty for child rapist and against the 2nd Amendment. IF McCAin wants to lead this country he should learn from what happened to Bush when he tried to cross the party lines. Also the news media has already turned on him so no matter what he does they'll hate it. McCain stated that he would appoint Judges like Roberts and Alieto but he can't get then in without Conservative suppport in the Senate. Voting for McCain could end up to be a losing propostion no matter what if we the people don't send the people that will support him.

Although I agree with you on every point you made, we lived through the Warren Court era by the hardest. What is more troubling to me is that a Obama Presidency will bring high taxation, anti-gun laws, abortion laws, dumbing down of the military, $10 a gallon gasoline but most of all I fear that we will be more susceptible to terrorist attacks. If he wins, it is very likely that the Democrats will gain enough Senate seats (60+) to pass any legislation. Obama is the most liberal politician in the Senate, and he will bring this country down to it knees if he is elected with a filibuster proof senate. I don't doubt for one minute that our sovereignty will also be in jeopardy by his socialistic views, and that he would like to see the UN flag flying over the White House with the stars and stripes beneath it. The sorry bastard won't wear a pin or acknowledge the P.O.A

I am not trying to scare anyone into voting for McCain but I sure as hell believe that Obama will try to do the above mentioned things if he becomes Prez.

[Airwolf]

I understand that having McCain as President is far better then having Barry Obama slide his way into the oval office. The Problem however you cut it isn't with getting McCain in it is with the House and Senate. Voting McCain in isn't going to be worth much if the Democrats gain seats in the House and Senate. McCain could appoint anyone he wants to as judge but that person is going to be facing a group of leftist that would make Lenin smile.

The past few days has  shown that getting two more Conservative leaning SC judges in the SCOTUS is too important to leave to someone that voted for two of the four liberal judges that have written the dissenting opinions for the death penalty for child rapist and against the 2nd Amendment. IF McCAin wants to lead this country he should learn from what happened to Bush when he tried to cross the party lines. Also the news media has already turned on him so no matter what he does they'll hate it. McCain stated that he would appoint Judges like Roberts and Alieto but he can't get then in without Conservative suppport in the Senate. Voting for McCain could end up to be a losing propostion no matter what if we the people don't send the people that will support him.

Although I agree with you on every point you made, we lived through the Warren Court era by the hardest. What is more troubling to me is that a Obama Presidency will bring high taxation, anti-gun laws, abortion laws, dumbing down of the military, $10 a gallon gasoline but most of all I fear that we will be more susceptible to terrorist attacks. If he wins, it is very likely that the Democrats will gain enough Senate seats (60+) to pass any legislation. Obama is the most liberal politician in the Senate, and he will bring this country down to it knees if he is elected with a filibuster proof senate. I don't doubt for one minute that our sovereignty will also be in jeopardy by his socialistic views, and that he would like to see the UN flag flying over the White House with the stars and stripes beneath it. The sorry bastard won't wear a pin or acknowledge the P.O.A

I am not trying to scare anyone into voting for McCain but I sure as hell believe that Obama will try to do the above mentioned things if he becomes Prez.

It might actually be far worse then we imagin an Obama Presidency can be.

[Peter3_1]

Well, Obama's lining up more tax increasing programs that we have money it seems. Here's a boondoggle he SPONSORED that should curl your hair.  Worse than McCain? You bet, MUCH WORSE!

http://www.cfiflistmanager.org/globalpovertyactnm.html

[LadyLiberty]

Very well said.  That list sums up some of the very reasons that I find McCain so unpalatable as a candidate.

Better to have a socialist than a less-than perfect Conservative.
 

What makes McCain conservative?

[Peter3_1]

HE's not, he is a left leaning Republican.

[Chris_]

HE's not, he is a left leaning Republican.

Which still beats a radical socialist democrat who will make the USA into the EU writ small.

[Lacarnut]

HE's not, he is a left leaning Republican.

As a right winger, I understand that the country will never elect a Prez that believes everything that I do such as nuke Syria and Iran now, bring our boys home now, term limits, eliminate or cut back on many Federal agencies, build the fence and start putting employers in jail for hiring illegals, kick foreigners out that want to protest here, lower taxes, etc.

I am going to vote for McCain who will put a bad taste in my mouth on some issues but will be on the right side on some issues. With Obama, I will feel like I have a load of crap in my mouth on every issue that this left wing marxist is for. 

[Rebel]

What makes McCain conservative?

Well, he isn't a fiscal liberal. He supports tax cuts. He's not militarily liberal. He doesn't support abortion on demand. He doesn't believe in gay marriage. ...to add a few.

[Wretched Excess]

What makes McCain conservative?

Well, he isn't a fiscal liberal. He supports tax cuts. He's not militarily liberal. He doesn't support abortion on demand. He doesn't believe in gay marriage. ...to add a few.

he actually voted against the bush tax cuts, IIRC.  he modified his position in the primaries.

he was right on the surge before there was a surge.  you gotta give him his props on that one.  it was incredibly unpopular at the time, but he stuck to his guns.

[Peter3_1]

La Car Nut? Wasn't it a LeCar? Or is there some other car(s) you are nutty about?

[Wretched Excess]

La Car Nut? Wasn't it a LeCar? Or is there some other car(s) you are nutty about?

I think it means that he lives in LA.

[Lacarnut]

La Car Nut? Wasn't it a LeCar? Or is there some other car(s) you are nutty about?

I think it means that he lives in LA.

Correct