Zionism's Dead End: Separation and Transfer

[Big Dog]

Just for you, Nazi ****er:


Auschwitz Camp I


Children awaiting execution


Execution of Jewish man


Execution Wall next to Building 11, Auschwitz I


Jewish concentration camp prisoners greeting liberators

Defend that, asshole.

[txradioguy]

Analyzing the False Accusations against Israel, Part II: “Illegal” Settlements


There is no such thing as “illegal settlements” in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria. This is all Jewish land. Jerusalem is the eternal capital city. Judea is where the Kingdom of Judah once was, and the word “Jew” actually comes from Judah. Still, putting aside the argument that this is historically Jewish land and continues to be, the settlements are legal, and there is nothing to back up this claim that they are not. They do not affect negotiations with Palestinians in any way, shape or form as perfectly illustrated by how the removal of Israelis from Gaza in 2005 (after a 3000 year presence) did not do a thing to change the political climate and certainly did not stop the Arab violence against Jews. In fact what followed were rocket attacks, suicide bombings and other terrorism from the Gaza side toward Israel.

Building settlements does not change the political status of the land; hence there is nothing illegal here. Those opposing settlements simply do not want Jews in Judea, as ironic as that is. And keeping Jews out is their form of ethnic cleansing.

“The various agreements reached between Israel and the Palestinians since 1993 contain no prohibitions on the building or expansion of settlements. On the contrary, they specifically provide that the issue of settlements is reserved for permanent status negotiations, which are to take place in the concluding stage of the peace talks. The parties expressly agreed that the Palestinian Authority has no jurisdiction or control over settlements or Israelis, pending the conclusion of a permanent status agreement.

It has been charged that the provision contained in the Israel-Palestinian Interim Agreement prohibiting unilateral steps that alter the status of the West Bank implies a ban on settlement activity…The prohibition on unilateral measures was designed to ensure that neither side take steps that would change the legal status of this territory (such as by annexation or a unilateral declaration of statehood), pending the outcome of permanent status talks. The building of homes has no effect on the final permanent status of the area as a whole…

Israel had established its settlements in the West Bank in accordance with international law. Attempts have been made to claim that the settlements violate Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, which forbids a state from deporting or transferring “parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” However, this allegation has no validity in law as Israeli citizens were neither deported nor transferred to the territories.

Although Israel has voluntarily taken upon itself the obligation to uphold the humanitarian provisions of the… Convention, Israel maintains that the Convention… was not applicable to the disputed territory. As there had been no internationally recognized legal sovereign in either the West Bank or Gaza prior to the 1967 Six Day War, they cannot be considered to have become “occupied territory” when control passed into the hands of Israel.

Yet even if the…Convention were to apply to the territories, Article 49 would not be relevant to the issue of Jewish settlements. The Convention was drafted immediately following the 2nd World War, against the background of the massive forced population transfers that occurred during that period. As the International Red Cross’ authoritative commentary to the Convention confirms, Article 49 … was intended to prevent the forcible transfer of civilians, thereby protecting the local population from displacement. Israel has not forcibly transferred its citizens to the territory and the Convention does not place any prohibition on individuals voluntarily choosing their place of residence. Moreover, the settlements are not intended to displace Arab inhabitants, nor do they do so in practice.

Israel’s use of land for settlements conforms to all rules and norms of international law. Privately owned lands are not requisitioned for the establishment of settlements. In addition, all settlement activity comes under the supervision of the Supreme Court of Israel … and every aggrieved inhabitant of the territories,… can appeal directly to this Court

The Fourth Geneva Convention was certainly not intended to prevent individuals from living on their ancestral lands or on property that had been illegally taken from them. Many present-day Israeli settlements have been established on sites that were home to Jewish communities in the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) in previous generations, in an expression of the Jewish people’s deep historic and religious connection with the land. Many of the most ancient and holy Jewish sites, including the Cave of the Patriarchs (the burial site of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) and Rachel’s Tomb, are located in these areas. Jewish communities, such as in Hebron (where Jews lived until they were massacred in 1929), existed throughout the centuries. Other communities, such as the Gush Etzion bloc in Judea, were founded before 1948 under the internationally endorsed British Mandate.

The right of Jews to settle in all parts of the Land of Israel was first recognized by the international community in the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine. The purpose of the Mandate was to facilitate the establishment of a Jewish national home in the Jewish people’s ancient homeland. Indeed, Article 6 of the Mandate provided for “close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands not required for public use.”

For more than a thousand years, the only time that Jewish settlement was prohibited in the West Bank was under the Jordanian occupation (1948-1967) that resulted from an armed invasion. During this period of Jordanian rule, which was not internationally recognized, Jordan eliminated the Jewish presence in the West Bank (as Egypt did in the Gaza Strip) and declared that the sale of land to Jews was a capital offense. It is untenable that this outrage could invalidate the right of Jews to establish homes in these areas, and accordingly, the legal titles to land that had already been acquired remain valid to this day.”

http://chersonandmolschky.com/2013/06/21/analyzing-false-accusations-israel-part-ii-illegal-settlements/

[txradioguy]

Analyzing the False Accusations against Israel, Part III: Apartheid and the Security Fence


Apartheid. People throw that word around without really understanding what it means. First of all, Arabs in Israel are full citizens who have the right to vote, including women who, in many Arab nations do not possess this same right. And not only can they vote, but they can also run for public office, and many have. There are Arabs serving in the Knesset, or Israeli Parliament, and some have served as Cabinet members, Ambassadors and on the Supreme Court. Certain Arab Knesset members have even criticized Israel, but if they were blacks in South Africa under Apartheid, they would have been killed for such a thing.

 

Arabs are allowed the freedom of speech and can and do actually protest. They live wherever they want and cannot be discriminated against in their places of employment. If they are arrested, they get a fair trial, and while Jewish Israelis are required to serve in the military, Arabs do not have to fulfill this same requirement. Despite this, many volunteer for it, perhaps because they love their country. In recent poll results, the majority of Arabs answered that not only do they consider Israel to be home but that they wouldn’t want to live anywhere else, including in other Arab and/or Muslim countries. And finally, Arabic is an official language in Israel. It certainly would not be taken into consideration if it were Apartheid.

 

Most people like to use the security fence as an example of Apartheid. But Apartheid has nothing to do with it. This fence was put into place in order to protect Israeli citizens from the constant terror attacks which had been occurring and would continue to occur if not for the fence. It has provided protection for them and has severely limited these attacks. Why is it Apartheid? Because Arabs now have to walk a little bit further? Nonsense. Terrorists ruin everything. Because of terrorists there is now stricter airport security. Is it inconvenient? Yes. Is it necessary? Yes. If that hassle allows me to live because they caught a terrorist before he boarded my plane, then I’ll take the hassle, thank you very much.

 

The security fence has saved lives. This is a fact which cannot be denied. Israel’s goal is peace, which is precisely why the security fence has been built, to protect its citizens from terrorist violence.



“In the 11 months between the erection of the first segment at the beginning of August 2003 and the end of June 2004, the Samaria-based terrorist groups have succeeded in carrying out only three atrocities within Israel. All three occurred in the first half of 2003, during which 26 Israelis were murdered and 76 wounded. (In two of the cases, the terrorists infiltrated via areas in Samaria where the fence was not yet completed. In the third, a female terrorist entered through the Barta’a crossing using a Jordanian passport.)

In contrast, during the 34 months from the beginning of the violence in September 2000 until the construction of the first continuous segment of the anti-terrorist fence at the end of July 2003, between Salem and Elkana in Samaria, Samaria-based terrorists carried out 73 atrocities (suicide bombings, shootings, car bombings) within Israel (including Jerusalem) in which 293 Israelis were killed and 1950 wounded.

A comparison of the above data shows a decrease of slightly more than 90% in the number of attacks: from an average of 26 attacks a year before the fence, to three attacks after erection of the anti-terrorist fence. This means a decrease of more than 70% in the number of Israelis murdered: from an average of 103 slain per year before the fence to 28 after erection of the fence. Similarly, this means a drop of more than 85% in the number of wounded: from an average of 688 a year before the fence to 83 wounded per year after it was built.

While the number of attacks dropped sharply, the number of attempted attacks that were foiled in various stages of preparation since the erection of the anti-terrorist fence in August 2003 remained high. During this period, the security forces prevented dozens of attacks by Samaria-based terrorist groups in the final stages of preparation. As a result of the arrests of terrorists and heads of cells, 24 explosive belts and bombs were discovered.”

Furthermore, between Israel and the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority there is no natural or man made barrier. This enables the almost unhindered entry of Palestinian terrorists into Israel. During the last three years, [this was from 2004], 117 Palestinian terrorists took advantage of it, entered into Israel and in the act of blowing themselves up murdered 477 people- Jews, Arabs and Christians and wounded thousands of others. In contrast, the security fence between Israel and the Gaza Strip that has existed since 1996 has proven its effectiveness and the vast majority of terrorist attempts have been discovered and thwarted.

 

In other words, terrorists continue to get in where there is no fence, but where there is a fence, their attempts are thwarted.

The security fence:
1. Does not establish a border of any kind.
2. Does not annex any Palestinian lands to Israel.
3. Does not change the legal status of any Palestinians.
4. Does not prevent Palestinians from going about their lives.

“The security fence currently being built between the Palestinians in the West Bank and Israeli population centers is a defensive measure. It is designed to prevent terrorists from carrying out attacks in Israel. Its path was chosen in accordance with security and topographic considerations, while making every effort to minimize disruption to the daily lives of the local Palestinian population.”

 

If Palestinian land owners wish to dispute the location of the fence, it is built in moveable sections and can be moved if the land owners take their case to court, and the court decides in their favor. In which case, that section of the fence is then moved. Doesn’t sound like Apartheid to me.

 

In summary, 90% less attacks; 70% less senseless deaths; 85% less wounded. The fence has proven itself to be extremely effective as a much needed security measure, and its existence has nothing to do with Apartheid and everything to do with preventing terrorism. Now if the terrorists consider this a burden, they can call it Apartheid all they want, but that doesn’t make it true. It is inconvenient for terrorists, but Israel protecting its citizens against this violence is not Apartheid. It is no different from any other country in the world which makes protecting its citizens a priority. Israel should not be judged differently simply because it is the Jewish State. The charge of Apartheid is an ugly accusation and a false one at that.


http://chersonandmolschky.com/2013/06/22/analyzing-false-accusations-israel-part-iii-apartheid-security-fence/

[georgephillip]

Chomsky is a hack in the same vein as Trotsky, and Alinsky.

Not to mention Plato, Freud, Cicero, and another hack named Shakespeare:

"Between 1980 and 1992, Chomsky was cited within the field of Arts and Humanities more often than any other living scholar, and eighth overall within the Arts and Humanities Citation Index during the same period.[14][15][16][17] He has been described as a prominent cultural figure, and was voted the 'world's top public intellectual' in a 2005 poll."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

[Zathras]

Not to mention Plato, Freud, Cicero, and another hack named Shakespeare:

"Between 1980 and 1992, Chomsky was cited within the field of Arts and Humanities more often than any other living scholar, and eighth overall within the Arts and Humanities Citation Index during the same period.[14][15][16][17] He has been described as a prominent cultural figure, and was voted the 'world's top public intellectual' in a 2005 poll."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

All of which have nothing to do at all with politics in the Middle East you ignorant, Islamofascist loving ****tard.

[obumazombie]

Not to mention Plato, Freud, Cicero, and another hack named Shakespeare:

"Between 1980 and 1992, Chomsky was cited within the field of Arts and Humanities more often than any other living scholar, and eighth overall within the Arts and Humanities Citation Index during the same period.[14][15][16][17] He has been described as a prominent cultural figure, and was voted the 'world's top public intellectual' in a 2005 poll."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

Gore and owebuma won Nobel peace prizes. Popular acclaim by libs doesn't make a lib accomplished.

[txradioguy]

Not to mention Plato, Freud, Cicero, and another hack named Shakespeare:

"Between 1980 and 1992, Chomsky was cited within the field of Arts and Humanities more often than any other living scholar, and eighth overall within the Arts and Humanities Citation Index during the same period.[14][15][16][17] He has been described as a prominent cultural figure, and was voted the 'world's top public intellectual' in a 2005 poll."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

You're still not showing anything that shows why we should take his racist hatred towards Israel seriously.

All you're proving is that you're incapable of original thought and can only cut and paste crap that's easily disproven.

[georgephillip]

Gore and owebuma won Nobel peace prizes. Popular acclaim by libs doesn't make a lib accomplished.

Gore and Barry ( not to mention Dick, Dubya, and Bubba) are intellectual midgets by comparison.
As I understand Chomsky's eighth overall ranking within the Arts and Humanities Index between 1980 and 1992 means that Noam was the only living human beings on an all-time top ten list of intellectual luminaries.

Most of those citations were due to his Linguistic research; however, his political and philosophical works were also widely quoted and read.

[txradioguy]

Gore and Barry ( not to mention Dick, Dubya, and Bubba) are intellectual midgets by comparison.
As I understand Chomsky's eighth overall ranking within the Arts and Humanities Index between 1980 and 1992 means that Noam was the only living human beings on an all-time top ten list of intellectual luminaries.

Most of those citations were due to his Linguistic research; however, his political and philosophical works were also widely quoted and read.

The mans "political beliefs" dismiss the "alleged" holocaust in Germany and denies the Killing Fields in Cambodia.

How does any of that make him an expert on Israel that anyone should believe?

[txradioguy]

Gore and Barry ( not to mention Dick, Dubya, and Bubba) are intellectual midgets by comparison.
As I understand Chomsky's eighth overall ranking within the Arts and Humanities Index between 1980 and 1992 means that Noam was the only living human beings on an all-time top ten list of intellectual luminaries.

Most of those citations were due to his Linguistic research; however, his political and philosophical works were also widely quoted and read.

Though Chomsky is widely regarded as an expert on the Middle East, when he was pressed to list his qualifications for his expertise, he responded that he had “none whatsoever.”

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/noamchomskyprofile.html

[georgephillip]

You're still not showing anything that shows why we should take his racist hatred towards Israel seriously.

All you're proving is that you're incapable of original thought and can only cut and paste crap that's easily disproven.

Show me how easily you cn disprove this cut and paste:

"Between 1980 and 1992, Chomsky was cited within the field of Arts and Humanities more often than any other living scholar, and eighth overall within the Arts and Humanities Citation Index during the same period.[14][15][16][17]"

Then provide some proof of Chomsky's "racist hatred toward Israel."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

[EagleKeeper]

Show me how easily you cn disprove this cut and paste:

"Between 1980 and 1992, Chomsky was cited within the field of Arts and Humanities more often than any other living scholar, and eighth overall within the Arts and Humanities Citation Index during the same period.[14][15][16][17]"

Then provide some proof of Chomsky's "racist hatred toward Israel."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

Seriously, if I were to assume that there is actually a problem what do you propose as a resolution?

[georgephillip]

Other than being a linguistics expert...what possible expertise does that Communist hack have about Judaism that Ody wouldn't?

Oh wait...that's just your way of dismissing someone who is obviously smarter than you...who can cite things from first hand knowledge while you're busy cutting and pasting useless bigoted crap from Arab based websites.

Idiot. 

Possibly Noam's time spent living on a kibbutz would provide him with expertise most of us posting here don't have:

"Chomsky and his wife lived for part of 1953 in HaZore'a, a kibbutz in Israel. Asked in an interview whether the stay was 'a disappointment' Chomsky replied, 'No, I loved it'; however, he 'couldn't stand the ideological atmosphere' and 'fervent nationalism' in the early 1950s at the kibbutz, with Stalin being defended by many of the left-leaning kibbutz members who chose to paint a rosy image of future possibilities and contemporary realities in the USSR.[53]

"Chomsky notes seeing many positive elements in the commune-like living of the kibbutz, in which parents and children lived together in separate houses, and when asked whether there were 'lessons that we have learned from the history of the kibbutz', responded,[54][55] that in 'some respects, the kibbutzim came closer to the anarchist ideal than any other attempt that lasted for more than a very brief moment before destruction, or that was on anything like a similar scale. In these respects, I think they were extremely attractive and successful; apart from personal accident, I probably would have lived there myself – for how long, it's hard to guess.'"

Or maybe the "communist hack" gleaned some information about Judaism from his childhood that you can't fathom?

"Avram Noam Chomsky was born on December 7, 1928, in the affluent East Oak Lane neighborhood of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.[28][29]

"His father, Dr. William 'Zev' Chomsky (1896–1977) had been born in Ukraine, then a part of the Russian Empire, and had fled to the United States in 1913 to avoid conscription into the army.

"Here, he began work in sweatshops in Baltimore, Maryland, before getting teaching work at the city's Hebrew elementary schools, using his money to fund his studies at Johns Hopkins University.

"He married Elsie Simonofsky – a native of what is now Belarus who grew up in the United States – and they moved to Philadelphia, where they both began teaching at the Mikveh Israel religious school.

"William eventually rose to the position of school principal. In 1924 he was appointed to the faculty at the country's oldest teacher training institution, Gratz College, where he became faculty president in 1932. In 1955, he also began teaching courses at Dropsie College. Independently, he was involved in researching Medieval Hebrew, eventually authoring a series of books on the language..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky#Childhood:_1928.E2.80.9345

[georgephillip]

Seriously, if I were to assume that there is actually a problem what do you propose as a resolution?

Problem...what problem?

[EagleKeeper]

Problem...what problem?

Oh please...

I suppose you are just bitterly complaining about the Jewish presence as an intellectual exercise right?

But, I can see why you wouldn't want to answer the question.

[NHSparky]

So, back from vacation--who's the troll who needs dickpunched?

[EagleKeeper]

So, back from vacation--who's the troll who needs dickpunched?

More of just an oddity then anything, vehemently disagrees with the presence of Israel and likes to quote Noam Chomsky and wiki.

[txradioguy]

Show me how easily you cn disprove this cut and paste:

"Between 1980 and 1992, Chomsky was cited within the field of Arts and Humanities more often than any other living scholar, and eighth overall within the Arts and Humanities Citation Index during the same period.[14][15][16][17]"

Then provide some proof of Chomsky's "racist hatred toward Israel."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

I'm taling about your racist anti Semitic pro terrorist crap.

My question about Chomsky remains the same...what qualifies him to be an expert on the situation...other than he shares your narrow minded bigoted views?

[txradioguy]

Oh please...

I suppose you are just bitterly complaining about the Jewish presence as an intellectual exercise right?

But, I can see why you wouldn't want to answer the question.

Like Arafat the PLO and the rest of that part of the world they don't want a solution to the alleged problem.  They want to keep it going with their myths and half truths so they can have justification for being racists.

[georgephillip]

I'm taling about your racist anti Semitic pro terrorist crap.

My question about Chomsky remains the same...what qualifies him to be an expert on the situation...other than he shares your narrow minded bigoted views?

Ask Hugo.

"At the start of his speech Wednesday, during which Chavez referred to President Bush as 'the devil,' Chavez held up a book by Noam Chomsky, 'Hegemony or Survival: America?s Quest for Global Dominance,' and recommended it to everyone in the General Assembly, as well as to the American people.

"'I call upon all American brothers and sisters to read the book so they can know about the devil they have at home', said Chavez in direct reference to US president George W. Bush.

"On Thursday afternoon, 'Hegemony or Survival,' originally published in 2003, had jumped into the top 10 of Amazon and Barnes & Noble.com. , ballooning from its original 160.772 position out of the millions of titles offered by the two editing companies."

http://en.mercopress.com/2006/09/21/noam-chomsky-makes-it-to-the-best-sellers-list

Best-selling authors often prove their expertise of a given situation in the market place.

[Zathras]

Ask Hugo.

"At the start of his speech Wednesday, during which Chavez referred to President Bush as 'the devil,' Chavez held up a book by Noam Chomsky, 'Hegemony or Survival: America?s Quest for Global Dominance,' and recommended it to everyone in the General Assembly, as well as to the American people.

"'I call upon all American brothers and sisters to read the book so they can know about the devil they have at home', said Chavez in direct reference to US president George W. Bush.

"On Thursday afternoon, 'Hegemony or Survival,' originally published in 2003, had jumped into the top 10 of Amazon and Barnes & Noble.com. , ballooning from its original 160.772 position out of the millions of titles offered by the two editing companies."

http://en.mercopress.com/2006/09/21/noam-chomsky-makes-it-to-the-best-sellers-list

Best-selling authors often prove their expertise of a given situation in the market place.

Wait...Hugo Chavez??? Now you've reached the bottom of the barrel, kicked it out of the way and started digging where it was. But, please keep showing us just what a useless idiot for the left you truly are.

[txradioguy]

Ask Hugo.

"At the start of his speech Wednesday, during which Chavez referred to President Bush as 'the devil,' Chavez held up a book by Noam Chomsky, 'Hegemony or Survival: America?s Quest for Global Dominance,' and recommended it to everyone in the General Assembly, as well as to the American people.

"'I call upon all American brothers and sisters to read the book so they can know about the devil they have at home', said Chavez in direct reference to US president George W. Bush.

"On Thursday afternoon, 'Hegemony or Survival,' originally published in 2003, had jumped into the top 10 of Amazon and Barnes & Noble.com. , ballooning from its original 160.772 position out of the millions of titles offered by the two editing companies."

http://en.mercopress.com/2006/09/21/noam-chomsky-makes-it-to-the-best-sellers-list

Best-selling authors often prove their expertise of a given situation in the market place.

YOu're kidding right?  A despot like the late and thankfully dead Hugo Chavez is your "proof" Chomsky is qualified to speak on Isreal and the situation with the palestinians?

You're more delusional than I thought.

[txradioguy]

Wait...Hugo Chavez??? Now you've reached the bottom of the barrel, kicked it out of the way and started digging where it was. But, please keep showing us just what a useless idiot for the left you truly are.

What our little anti-semite is now doing...is what all Libtards have to do when their cut and paste bullsh*t has been completely debunked.

They wing it...make it up as they go.

[Zathras]

YOu're kidding right?  A despot like the late and thankfully dead Hugo Chavez is your "proof" Chomsky is qualified to speak on Isreal and the situation with the palestinians?

You're more delusional than I thought.

What I want to know is when Georgie is renouncing his US citizenship and leaving the country? Judging by his posts, he seems to hate America with every fiber of his worthless soul.

Another thing is why haven't Georgie's two idiotic threads been moved to the Mind Numbing Stupidity forum and where they belong? If any thread fit the bill it would be those two

[georgephillip]

Oh please...

I suppose you are just bitterly complaining about the Jewish presence as an intellectual exercise right?

But, I can see why you wouldn't want to answer the question.

I can see where a solution to the Jewish presence in Palestine begins with an understanding of which side profits more from war than peace. The corporate spin has always held Israel has pursued peace while Arabs prefer (losing) one war after another. There's an alternative view on the left that claims major Arab states proposed a settlement to the Jewish occupation of Palestine at the UNSC in 1976:

"The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas). A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in January 1976 by the major Arab states.

"Israel refused to attend the session.

"The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980..."

We're not likely to agree on my source
Can you see an independent source for this claim we might agree on?

http://chomsky.info/articles/20100427.htm