Zionism's Dead End: Separation and Transfer

[Zathras]

Here's my view, what's yours?

Edited so not to repeat the racist Male Bovine Excrement that Gorgie is posting. My view is that you should find a more reputable website to get your info from....and put a pistol in your mouth and take the same way out that your god Hitler took.

[Zathras]

Oh boy, Ody is on the case....poor old Georgie won't know what hit him when the Major doth layeth the smacketh down upon his empty little head.

[obumazombie]

Noam Chomsky?  Seriously?  

I like what you did there.
I haven't seen your introduction thread. I will look for it, and definitely welcome you.

[Splashdown]

How are Palestinian Muslims and Christians treated in Israel?

How are Jews treated in the Muslim world? How about Christians?

[txradioguy]

If you're talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_IIOslo II, Arafat rejected that "historic trade" because he would have suffered the same fate as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_RabinYitzhak Rabin if he hadn't.
Oslo II divided the West Bank into three areas, A, B, and C. Area C which contains all Jewish settlements takes up about 73% of the entire West Bank. Jews are the majority there, and it's likely to be the next annexation to take place in Palestine.

Areas A and B are "Palestinian controlled" yet subject to IDF incursions at any time.

The basic terms of Oslo II reaffirm the Cairo accords of 1994 which stipulate "that the Israeli Military Administration retains exclusive authority in 'legislation, adjudication, (and) policy execution...'"

In exchange, Arafat was required to renounce the Right of Return and recognize Israel as a Jewish state.
Such a deal; give up two-thirds of Palestine and the right of return or compensation for what's been taken by force of arms.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199601--.htm

No I'm talking about at Camp David.  They offered everything Arafat wanted and then some.  And he turned it down.

And seriously?  Noam Chomsky? 

[txradioguy]

I'm not sure who Ed is or what CU stands for, but anytime you want a thread about Israel's deliberate attack on the Liberty, Ill be happy to contribute. 

I'm sure you would...with more factually inaccurate propaganda from sketchy sources.

[Crazy Horse]

I like what you did there.
I haven't seen your introduction thread. I will look for it, and definitely welcome you.

He's been here since about the beginning of this site, so I doubt there is an intro thread.

[Splashdown]

He's been here since about the beginning of this site, so I doubt there is an intro thread.

Lol. Find the 2008 welcome thread...

[txradioguy]

Lol. Find the 2008 welcome thread...

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,12314.msg150230.html#msg150230


Yours is the third post in there. 

[Splashdown]

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,12314.msg150230.html#msg150230


Yours is the third post in there. 

 

[georgephillip]

Noam Chomsky?  Seriously?   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky#Academic_achievements.2C_awards.2C_and_honorsSeriously.
"The World's Smartest Jew."

"Chomsky has received many honorary degrees from universities around the world, including from the following:

University of London
University of Chicago
Loyola University Chicago
Swarthmore College
University of Delhi
Bard College
University of Massachusetts Amherst
University of Pennsylvania
University of St. Andrews
Georgetown University
Amherst College
University of Cambridge
University of Colorado[175]
University of Buenos Aires
McGill University
Rovira i Virgili University
Columbia University
Villanova University
University of Connecticut
University of Maine
Scuola Normale Superiore di Pisa
University of Western Ontario
University of Toronto
Harvard University
University of Chile
University of Bologna
University of La Frontera
University of Calcutta
National University of Colombia
Vrije Universiteit Brussel
Santo Domingo Institute of Technology
Uppsala University
National and Kapodistrian University of Athens
University of Cyprus
Central Connecticut State University
National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM)
Peking University[176]
National Tsing Hua University[177]"

Care to seriously refute any of his serious content?
Like this, for example:

"By incorporating these provisions, Oslo II rescinds the position of virtually the entire world that the settlements are illegal and that Israel has no claim to the territories acquired by force in 1967.

"Oslo II reaffirms the basic principle of Oslo I: UN resolution 242 of November 1967, the basic framework of Middle East diplomacy, is dead and buried; UN 242, that is, as interpreted by those who formulated it, including -- quite explicitly -- the United States until Washington switched policy in 1971, departing from the international consensus it had helped shape.

"The 'peace process' keeps to the doctrines that the U.S. has upheld in international isolation (apart from Israel) for 25 years, a matter of no slight significance.

To summarize, Israel runs Zone C (about 70 percent of the West Bank) unilaterally, and Zone B (close to 30 percent) effectively, while partially ceding Zone A (1 percent-3 percent). Israel retains unilateral control over the whole West Bank to the extent that it (and its foreign protector) so decide, and the legality of its essential claims is now placed beyond discussion. The principles extend to the Gaza Strip, where Israel retains full control of the 30 percent that it considered of any value."

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199601--.htm

[txradioguy]

Care to seriously refute any of his serious content?

Yes I would.

Chomsky was one of the chief deniers of the Cambodian genocide of the 1970s, which took place in the wake of the Communist victory and American withdrawal from Indochina. He directed vitriolic attacks towards the reporters and witnesses who testified to the human catastrophe that was taking place there. Initially, Chomsky tried to minimize the deaths (a “few thousand”) and compared those killed by Pol Pot and his followers to the collaborators who had been executed by resistance movements in Europe at the end of World War II. By 1980, however, it was no longer possible to deny that some 2 million of Cambodia's 7.8 million people had perished at the hands of the Communists. But Professor Chomsky continued to deny the genocide, proposing that the underlying problem may have been a failure of the rice crop. As late as 1988, Chomsky returned to the subject and insisted that whatever had happened in Cambodia, the U.S. was to blame.

So when real holocausts like the Killing Fields take place ol Noam is the first one up to defend Communism and deny anything really happened.  It's a recurring theme with this self hating ass clown.

Professor Chomsky has denounced every U.S. President from Woodrow Wilson and FDR to Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton as the front men in “four-year dictatorships” by a ruling class. In his view, the U.S., led by a series of lesser Hitlers, picked up where the Nazis left off after they were defeated in 1945. According to Chomsky, a case could be made for impeaching every President since World War II because “they’ve all been either outright war criminals or involved in serious war crimes.”

Chomsky also detests the state of Israel, a country he regards as playing the role of Little Satan to the American Great Satan and functioning strategically as an “offshore military and technology base for the United States.”

According to the website Stand4Facts.org, Chomsky has made the following statements about Israel, Jews, and the Holocaust:

“I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas chambers, or even denial of the holocaust. Nor would there be anti-Semitic implications, per se, in the claim that the holocaust (whether one believes it took place or not) is being exploited, viciously so, by apologists for Israeli repression and violence.”

“I objected to the founding of Israel as a Jewish state. I don't think a Jewish or Christian or Islamic state is a proper concept. I would object to the United States as a Christian state.”

Israel is “a state based on the principle of discrimination. There is no other way for a state with non-Jewish citizens to remain a Jewish state…”

“Israel is virtually a U.S. military base, an offshoot of the U.S. military system.”

“There are a great many horrible regimes in the world. To take just one, the world's longest military occupation. There's little doubt that those under the military occupation would be much better off if the occupation were terminated. Does it follow that we should bomb Tel Aviv?”

“Of course [suicide bombers are] terrorists and there's been Palestinian terrorism all the way through. I have always opposed it….But it's very small as compared with the U.S.-backed Israeli terrorism.”

“I mean you’d have to go back to the worst days of the American South to know what it’s been like for the Palestinians in the occupied territories.”

“What this wall [separation barrier] is really doing is…helping turn Palestinian communities into dungeons, next to which the bantustans of South Africa look like symbols of freedom, sovereignty and self-determination.”

Of a pattern with this animus toward Israel is Chomsky’s involvement with neo-Nazis and Holocaust revisionism. This saga began in 1980 with Chomsky’s support of Robert Faurisson, a French anti-Semite who was fired by the University of Lyon for his hate-filled screeds. (“The alleged Hitlerite gas chambers and the alleged genocide of the Jews form one and the same historical lie,” Faurisson wrote.) Chomsky penned a preface to a book by Faurisson, explaining that the latter was an “apolitical liberal” whose work was based on “extensive historical research” and contained “no hint of anti-Semitic implications.”

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1232

No wonder an anti-Semitic radical Islam loving bigot like you would cite him.  He denies the Holocaust and sides with neo Nazi's to justify hatred against his own people.

You must be so proud.

[georgephillip]

Yes I would.

So when real holocausts like the Killing Fields take place ol Noam is the first one up to defend Communism and deny anything really happened.  It's a recurring theme with this self hating ass clown.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1232

No wonder an anti-Semitic radical Islam loving bigot like you would cite him.  He denies the Holocaust and sides with neo Nazi's to justify hatred against his own people.

You must be so proud.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1232Your source:

"'I objected to the founding of Israel as a Jewish state. I don't think a Jewish or Christian or Islamic state is a proper concept. I would object to the United States as a Christian state.'”

Would you?

[txradioguy]

Would you?

No.  Because if you knew anything about the founding of the U.S. you'd know if was founded as a Christian nation.

Chomsky is is a Communist.  So it's only logical he's going to hate America or Israel and the principals they were founded on.

[Odysseus]

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1232Your source:

"'I objected to the founding of Israel as a Jewish state. I don't think a Jewish or Christian or Islamic state is a proper concept. I would object to the United States as a Christian state.'”

Would you?

Nations have the right to their own values.  If a state wants to establish itself as a homeland for a deposed people, it has that right, and if those people share a common set of religious values, then the state has the right to incorporate that.  What is objectionable is when that state does not extend rights of conscience to religious or ethnic minorities, which is the case in most Islamic states, but very few Christian ones, and not at all in the case of the sole Jewish one.  I notice, BTW, that you have no objection to the Islamic states which seek to obliterate the non-Islamic states or communities around them, which include Israel, India, Thailand, Nigeria Egypt's Copts, Iran's B'Hais and any European country that has a significant Muslim population.  If Israel is the problem, how do you explain that there is no peaceful border between any Islamic entity and anyone else in the world?

When Herzl took up the cause of Zionism, there were numerous self-determination movements going on around the world, many of which were within the Ottoman Empire (although the Hapsburg Empire came in for its share).  The defeated powers of WWI ended up seeing their imperial possessions divested, with many forming newly independent or restored states, such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Armenia and assorted Arab states.  Many proved to be viable, but not all, and some were under constant attack by the nations that lost territory in their making or which had historic enmities against them.  BTW, if the British had not reneged on their promises of independent Arab states, much of the hatred of the Arabs towards Israel would have been avoided. 

Oh, and yes, Chomsky is a complete tool.  Quoting him on anything other than his field of expertise, linguistics, is like consulting a broken clock at any time other than the two moments when it is correct. 

[georgephillip]

Nations have the right to their own values.  If a state wants to establish itself as a homeland for a deposed people, it has that right, and if those people share a common set of religious values, then the state has the right to incorporate that.  What is objectionable is when that state does not extend rights of conscience to religious or ethnic minorities, which is the case in most Islamic states, but very few Christian ones, and not at all in the case of the sole Jewish one.  I notice, BTW, that you have no objection to the Islamic states which seek to obliterate the non-Islamic states or communities around them, which include Israel, India, Thailand, Nigeria Egypt's Copts, Iran's B'Hais and any European country that has a significant Muslim population.  If Israel is the problem, how do you explain that there is no peaceful border between any Islamic entity and anyone else in the world?

When Herzl took up the cause of Zionism, there were numerous self-determination movements going on around the world, many of which were within the Ottoman Empire (although the Hapsburg Empire came in for its share).  The defeated powers of WWI ended up seeing their imperial possessions divested, with many forming newly independent or restored states, such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Armenia and assorted Arab states.  Many proved to be viable, but not all, and some were under constant attack by the nations that lost territory in their making or which had historic enmities against them.  BTW, if the British had not reneged on their promises of independent Arab states, much of the hatred of the Arabs towards Israel would have been avoided.  

Oh, and yes, Chomsky is a complete tool.  Quoting him on anything other than his field of expertise, linguistics, is like consulting a broken clock at any time other than the two moments when it is correct.  

So far,you've provided no reason why I should believe you have more expertise about the Middle East than Chomsky does.
Do you believe Jews alone among all nations of the world are entitled to land their ancestors occupied thousands of years ago?

Herzl never met an autocrat he didn't like.
His "political Zionism" argued that the Jewish state he envisioned could only be built under the patronage of one imperialist power or another; a Jewish state predicated not on national liberation but colonization of land occupied by another people.
In pursuit of that "vision" he was willing to beg at the table of every criminal, imperial power he could gain access to: the German Kaiser, the Turks, the Russian Tsar, and finally the British Empire where he used Arab oil as a tool to inflict a Jewish minority into the heart of Arab nationalism.

Jabotinsky, to his credit, was more honest about the distinction between liberation and colonization:

"[It is the] iron law of every colonizing movement, a law which knows of no exceptions, a law which existed in all times and under all circumstances. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts o destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not 'difficult,' not 'dangerous' but impossible!.."

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/Hidden_Roots_Zionism.html

[obumazombie]

Good stuff Odysseus.

[txradioguy]

So far,you've provided no reason why I should believe you have more expertise about the Middle East than Chomsky does.

Could be because Ody's Jewish?

Nah...couldn't be because of that.

 

[Dori]

The British and their allies overthrew the Ottoman Empire in WWI.  They divided up the Middle East.  Israel wasn't the only country affected, yet all we hear about are the Jews.

Way past time to "Get Over It" and move on.   

[Big Dog]

Big Dog- Proud member, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

[georgephillip]

Could be because Ody's Jewish?

Nah...couldn't be because of that.

 

Ody makes a lot of good points and displays an informed perspective about the Middle East.
If he's Jewish, I'm not surprised, but he still doesn't have the knowledge and expertise Chomsky does about Zionism

[Zathras]

Ody makes a lot of good points and displays an informed perspective about the Middle East.
If he's Jewish, I'm not surprised, but he still doesn't have the knowledge and expertise Chomsky does about Zionism

Yeah, the Major doesn't have Chumpski's knowledge....he has more than Chumpsky's knowledge about the subject, you Islamofascist wannabe. And please don't bring up those worthless "honorary" degrees that were handed to him like candy to trick or treaters on Halloween.

[obumazombie]

Ody makes a lot of good points and displays an informed perspective about the Middle East.
If he's Jewish, I'm not surprised, but he still doesn't have the knowledge and expertise Chomsky does about Zionism

Chomsky is a hack in the same vein as Trotsky, and Alinsky.

[Crazy Horse]

Lol. Find the 2008 welcome thread...

The same one I welcomed the then major in 

[txradioguy]

Ody makes a lot of good points and displays an informed perspective about the Middle East.
If he's Jewish, I'm not surprised, but he still doesn't have the knowledge and expertise Chomsky does about Zionism

Other than being a linguistics expert...what possible expertise does that Communist hack have about Judaism that Ody wouldn't?

Oh wait...that's just your way of dismissing someone who is obviously smarter than you...who can cite things from first hand knowledge while you're busy cutting and pasting useless bigoted crap from Arab based websites.

Idiot.