TRUMP, LEVIN RIGHT ABOUT ROVE

[txradioguy]

If you’re a donor or potential donor to Karl Rove’s group American Crossroads, I recommend you listen to Mark Levin’s recent interview with Donald Trump, because they disclosed some long overdue truths that needed to be said.

Trump and Levin made several points that donors, the media, and the political class can no longer ignore and frankly should have picked up on long ago. When you see the facts all laid out, you’ll be asking yourself the same question as Levin: “I would say to the wealthy donors out there, why do you keep donating to him?”

The first point Trump makes is exhibit one in the case against Rove and something people should never, ever forget: “You know it was really Karl Rove who gave us Obama.” Mr. Trump is exactly right. The next time someone says Karl Rove is a political genius, just remember that his disastrous decisions during the Bush Administration paved the way for President Obama’s election, Obamacare’s implementation, and our unsustainable $16 trillion national debt.  

The truth is that the only times in politics when the political pendulum swings that far in either direction is when things get really, really awful under the sitting president. What largely caused that political situation was Karl Rove’s wrongheaded advice to George W. Bush. Let’s also be honest about Rove being the architect of Bush’s two victories. Barely beating atrocious candidates like Al Gore and John Kerry is not exactly a heavy lift or something to brag about, because he nearly let both get away.

Mr. Trump’s second point was about Rove’s “lousy record” when it comes to the candidates he backed in 2012. Moderate, establishment candidates who were backed by Rove got crushed nearly across the board. Rove’s support of establishment candidates isn’t surprising; these are the people who come to Washington and don’t change a thing – exactly what Rove wants. Levin went on to make the point that Rove’s attacks on conservatives and the Tea Party are peculiar when you consider that the only reason the U.S. House went back to Republican control is because of Tea Party turnout in the 2010 midterm elections: “In 2006 they lost the Senate and the House when Rove was in charge, they haven’t gotten it back except in 2010 thanks to the Tea Party,” Levin said.  

The third point Trump made was perhaps the most devastating: “They took $400 million of money that people put up to fight and they made the worst ads I’ve ever seen.”

The hundreds of millions in television ads Crossroads ran during the 2012 election had virtually zero impact. Donors trusted Rove to produce ads that were both innovative and effective and they got neither. Weak ads from one state to the next were placed on television and they failed miserably. “$400 million was wasted,” Trump went on to say. He’s exactly right, and what a shame it is.

This is personal for Trump because he was a $50,000 donor to Crossroads in 2010. That money could have been put to good use if it was given to groups with fresh ideas. So the next time you consider stroking a check to a Rove-controlled group, just remember what Donald Trump already knows: “Karl Rove, I just think he’s one of the most overrated people in politics.”

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/15/Trump-Levin-Are-Right-About-Rove

[formerlurker]

I think ads are useless.  Door-to-door canvasing is what Obama's campaign did, with workers ensuring that people voted on election day being the most important.   

Spend the money on people to canvas, not robo-calls and ads.   

[formerlurker]

Also note - if you are going to give money, give it to your local Republican committees (/citytown and state) as they most likely represent your belief system (and if they don't, then get more involved so you have a voice in what their platforms are).

[Lacarnut]

The high brow ads that this out fit put on were terrible and did not touch those in the middle class and the unemployed. They also did not specifically state what Romney was going to do about jobs.

Rove is a liar when he states that their is room in the Repub party for candidates like Palin, Angle and other Tea Party candidates. He wants conservative votes but his idea of a good Repub is a moderate, me too candidate. I got wise to this POS a long time ago and anyone he is supporting will be highly suspect IMO

Lastly, Repubs need to quit picking these Ivy League/ Harvard Grads. They go up to Yankee land and get their brains screwed up with nutty economic, social and foreign policies.

People like Formerluker are dumb as the day is long with their moderate ideology.     

[17 Oaks]

Thanks, Radioman, good info.

THe GOP is a mess  and its a mess from county level to the very top.  We have the same people in charge today as we did 8 years ago and before).  I do not see a chance for the GOP to take the WH till 2024 (IF then).  In fact I may not see a GOP WH for the rest of my life even if I live well into my 80's.

I was talking with an important GOP person a couple of weeks ago.  I was stunned when they said this:  "we (GOP) needs to develop a inner city task force and get GOP members down there helping them and educating them on how good we are and this WILL bring them on board with us"

WTF?!?!?!?  Are you kidding me?  I said you cannot out liberal the liberals, in fact that is beyond a waste of time its just plain stupid.  Well that ended that discussion.  But this is some of the mentality that is going on with those inside the GOP that affect policy.

[liberty]

I think ads are useless.  Door-to-door canvasing is what Obama's campaign did, with workers ensuring that people voted on election day being the most important.   

Spend the money on people to canvas, not robo-calls and ads.   

I could not agree more! I've spent a lot of my time volunteering for various campaigns and in my experience, a well informed person who is willing to canvas an area for the candidate makes more difference than 5 ads. There is just something about the personal aspect of a face to face conversation that can change someones vote. 
 

[17 Oaks]

I could not agree more! I've spent a lot of my time volunteering for various campaigns and in my experience, a well informed person who is willing to canvas an area for the candidate makes more difference than 5 ads. There is just something about the personal aspect of a face to face conversation that can change someones vote. 
 

Wish I could 100% agree, but just not the case.  When you knock on the door and get face to face with homeowner they will tell you yes I am voting for him, but that does not translate at the voting booth.  They see it as its easier to get you gone by saying yes than by saying no and listening to a 'why you should story'.  I say this as I have seen it.  The most effective is the town-hall concept.  Even then it can be tough if the candidate is not properly prepared.  I have watched them go down in flames time and time again.  There is no magic or silver bullet.

[formerlurker]

Wish I could 100% agree, but just not the case.  When you knock on the door and get face to face with homeowner they will tell you yes I am voting for him, but that does not translate at the voting booth.  They see it as its easier to get you gone by saying yes than by saying no and listening to a 'why you should story'.  I say this as I have seen it.  The most effective is the town-hall concept.  Even then it can be tough if the candidate is not properly prepared.  I have watched them go down in flames time and time again.  There is no magic or silver bullet.

Those canvasing are targeting those who don't typically vote on a regular basis, and the independents.    It is also extremely important to call all of those folks registered as (R) to make sure they actually vote on election day.

I witnessed it in MA for Warren.  She had people at every single polling place, clipboard in hand, crossing off those who came to vote and calling those who did not.  

People for the most part like to be asked for their vote - in person, by someone who represents the candidate well, or is in fact the candidate.  

[Lacarnut]

Wish I could 100% agree, but just not the case.  When you knock on the door and get face to face with homeowner they will tell you yes I am voting for him, but that does not translate at the voting booth.  They see it as its easier to get you gone by saying yes than by saying no and listening to a 'why you should story'.  I say this as I have seen it. 

A good example of that is the exit polls. People lie cause they do not think it is any of your business who I vote for.

Door to door canvasing might have some impact in local elections but I doubt that it does in statewide and national elections. 80 to 85 per cent of voters have already made up their minds due to party affiliation. Secondly, a majority or close to a majority are dumb as a rock when it comes to the candidates background and what their policies are. Even white college students don't have a clue. They listen to sound bites on TV and that is where they get their info and form their opinions. Repubs are at a distinct disadvantage because they have to run against their opponent and also the biased media. 

[liberty]

Wish I could 100% agree, but just not the case.  When you knock on the door and get face to face with homeowner they will tell you yes I am voting for him, but that does not translate at the voting booth.  They see it as its easier to get you gone by saying yes than by saying no and listening to a 'why you should story'.  I say this as I have seen it.  The most effective is the town-hall concept.  Even then it can be tough if the candidate is not properly prepared.  I have watched them go down in flames time and time again.  There is no magic or silver bullet.

It's absolutely true that there will be people who will tell you yes just to stop you from talking, but you would be surprised at how many will genuinely listen to you. Especially in a primary. 
  I will also say that the effectiveness of canvasing also has to do with how good your "canvasers" are.
If the person who is walking door to door is not informed, respectful, and personable, they will end up hurting the candidate rather than helping.

That said, I have watched results come in on election night and could see the areas where we had canvased bring in higher numbers of votes for us...higher than the areas where we had used more ads.

[J P Sousa]

Also note - if you are going to give money, give it to your local Republican committees (/citytown and state) as they most likely represent your belief system (and if they don't, then get more involved so you have a voice in what their platforms are).

 
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[J P Sousa]

Thanks, Radioman, good info.

THe GOP is a mess  and its a mess from county level to the very top.  We have the same people in charge today as we did 8 years ago and before).  I do not see a chance for the GOP to take the WH till 2024 (IF then).  In fact I may not see a GOP WH for the rest of my life even if I live well into my 80's.

I was talking with an important GOP person a couple of weeks ago.  I was stunned when they said this:  "we (GOP) needs to develop a inner city task force and get GOP members down there helping them and educating them on how good we are and this WILL bring them on board with us"

WTF?!?!?!?  Are you kidding me?  I said you cannot out liberal the liberals, in fact that is beyond a waste of time its just plain stupid.  Well that ended that discussion.  But this is some of the mentality that is going on with those inside the GOP that affect policy.

The Philadelphia GOP gave us Arlen Specter who was a democrat at the time the GOP endorsed him for Philly DA.
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[formerlurker]

.

Uh-huh.

[formerlurker]

The Philadelphia GOP gave us Arlen Specter who was a democrat at the time the GOP endorsed him for Philly DA.
.

Those bastards....

[wasp69]

Agree or disgree with, FL, there is one point that cannot be disputed:  if you are not involved and putting your shoulder to the wheel to make change, then don't complain.  We all need to be organizing and getting involved.

[formerlurker]

Agree or disgree with, FL, there is one point that cannot be disputed:  if you are not involved and putting your shoulder to the wheel to make change, then don't complain.  We all need to be organizing and getting involved.

H5.   That is EXACTLY my point.   

[formerlurker]

Agree or disgree with, FL, there is one point that cannot be disputed:  if you are not involved and putting your shoulder to the wheel to make change, then don't complain.  We all need to be organizing and getting involved.

Want to add on more thought - although I shouldn't because this is perfect.    

Once you are involved you will note how hard those at the local level actually work, and then recognize how hard you will have to work to effect change.

Moving mountains begins with removing the stones at the foothills.    There is a blueprint for this.   You just have to commit to doing the work involved to get it done.

I am a state delegate.   My life is such that I cannot commit the  time out of state to be a national delegate, however locally?  I am involved.   VERY INVOLVED.   I work my ass off.   Local candidates come to me to court me for my support and endorsement, and it has nothing to do with how fabulous I am (cause I am of course fabulous ), and everything to do with how connected to my community I am.   That didn't happen overnight.   That took a LOT of hard work.   We get small things accomplished here, and I can assure you the Governor's candidate (D or R) requires support from my part of the state to win so we do have a voice.   A strong one.  

All politics are local.   You can make a difference if you put in the hard work, and get others to do the same.  That is how we win our country back.

[J P Sousa]

Agree or disgree with, FL, there is one point that cannot be disputed:  if you are not involved and putting your shoulder to the wheel to make change, then don't complain.  We all need to be organizing and getting involved.

Maybe I should explain my ( ), I've been there, done that.

While working on a local campaign, I was recruited by a lower level county official (a CONSERVATIVE) to work with him while he ran for higher office. I made the mistake of accepting a political appointment (working for the county) in this fellows office.

He ran and won the top spot in the county. This guy was very friendly with the "press", or at least he THOUGHT he was friendly. After winning the top spot, he was shredded by the press. This is obviously what the liberal press does to "conservatives".

Once the party saw how the press treated him, the GOP withdrew their support and one by one the "conservatives" were bannished from this RINO party.

Yeah, I have been there, done that and suffered the RINO way of operating.   

So for me, the GOP stands for Gang Of Punks.
.

[wasp69]

Maybe I should explain my ( ), I've been there, done that.

While working on a local campaign, I was recruited by a lower level county official (a CONSERVATIVE) to work with him while he ran for higher office. I made the mistake of accepting a political appointment (working for the county) in this fellows office.

He ran and won the top spot in the county. This guy was very friendly with the "press", or at least he THOUGHT he was friendly. After winning the top spot, he was shredded by the press. This is obviously what the liberal press does to "conservatives".

Once the party saw how the press treated him, the GOP withdrew their support and one by one the "conservatives" were bannished from this RINO party.

Yeah, I have been there, done that and suffered the RINO way of operating.   

So for me, the GOP stands for Gang Of Punks.
.

I'm sorry your experience was so bad.  I don't think that one time equals never going to try again, at least it shouldn't.

[DefiantSix]

Agree or disgree with, FL, there is one point that cannot be disputed:  if you are not involved and putting your shoulder to the wheel to make change, then don't complain.  We all need to be organizing and getting involved.

Unfortunately, 'Lurker's definition of "putting your shoulder to the wheel to make change" as you put it equates to marching in lockstep with the Republican Party, chanting it's mantra on command and in key.  Anything else falls under the heading of "supporting the Democrats".

[formerlurker]

Maybe I should explain my ( ), I've been there, done that.

While working on a local campaign, I was recruited by a lower level county official (a CONSERVATIVE) to work with him while he ran for higher office. I made the mistake of accepting a political appointment (working for the county) in this fellows office.

He ran and won the top spot in the county. This guy was very friendly with the "press", or at least he THOUGHT he was friendly. After winning the top spot, he was shredded by the press. This is obviously what the liberal press does to "conservatives".

Once the party saw how the press treated him, the GOP withdrew their support and one by one the "conservatives" were bannished from this RINO party.

Yeah, I have been there, done that and suffered the RINO way of operating.   

So for me, the GOP stands for Gang Of Punks.
.

Once the party saw how the press treated him??   Tough press, politics?   Who knew they go hand in hand?  Well, everyone knows that and no the press is not fair but it is what it is and the way it is has ALWAYS been the way it is since our country was founded.

The GOP, as you are aware, are folks like you and me.   They aren't a group of thugs.   What did you do when this happened? 

[formerlurker]

Unfortunately, 'Lurker's definition of "putting your shoulder to the wheel to make change" as you put it equates to marching in lockstep with the Republican Party, chanting it's mantra on command and in key.  Anything else falls under the heading of "supporting the Democrats".

If you had half a clue you would be dangerous.   Luckily for us, there is no chance of that happening.  

[J P Sousa]

Once the party saw how the press treated him??   Tough press, politics?   Who knew they go hand in hand?  Well, everyone knows that and no the press is not fair but it is what it is and the way it is has ALWAYS been the way it is since our country was founded.

The GOP, as you are aware, are folks like you and me.   They aren't a group of thugs.   What did you do when this happened? 

Well, since it was my livelihood, I needed to find another job (it was the early eighties and high unemployment) I had a bad taste in my mouth. I tried but could not get motivated for politics again.

BTW: part of the reason I was "removed" (they said they needed to eliminate my job to save money  ) was my work for Reagan in the primary 1980. The county party was all for Bush but all conservatives were for Reagan.

The GOP in my county "REQUIRED" kow-towing in the primary. Silly me, I thought I was following my conscience.
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[formerlurker]

Well, since it was my livelihood, I needed to find another job (it was the early eighties and high unemployment) I had a bad taste in my mouth. I tried but could not get motivated for politics again.

BTW: part of the reason I was "removed" (they said they needed to eliminate my job to save money  ) was my work for Reagan in the primary 1980. The county party was all for Bush but all conservatives were for Reagan.

The GOP in my county "REQUIRED" kow-towing in the primary. Silly me, I thought I was following my conscience.
.

The GOP in your county are your neighbors and regular folks.  People don't like them, then remove them and replace them with leadership that represents what the majority holds dear.

The only power they have is what the people give them.  It really is that simple.

[Lacarnut]

The subject matter is about the influence that Rove and the elitist rich RINO's have on national politics not some local yokel county official. Don't really give a sh!t about MA politics. Those idiots are in favor of windmills which will triple the cost of electricity. Plus, the Governor is a loony tune like Obama. That will never change.