We have a "right" to own guns, but not a right to health care, food, shelter, c

[Freeper]

Hugabear (9,503 posts)

We have a "right" to own guns, but not a right to health care, food, shelter, clothing, employment


 
Seems to me there's something seriously wrong with this picture.

And there's definitely something fundamentally wrong when you have a large portion of the country that would threaten a civil war over their "right" to own semi-automatic assault weapons, but gets equally pissed off at the mere thought of guaranteeing everyone health coverage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022169074

The founding fathers had the nerve to believe that it was your responsibility to buy your own food, shelter, healthcare, and later your own damn iPhones. This notion that you are owed your basic existence is what is wrong with this country. In a just world you freeloading moochers would starve to death or get off your asses and go do some of that work that is so beneath you.

And hell yeah we are pissed about "guaranteeing everyone health care". You know why? Because we think you are responsible for your own healthcare. Why should we not only have to shell out the money to cover you but have our own health care diminished because we are paying for your every hangnail.

JohnnyBoots (2,780 posts)
3. When the Second Amendment was written

people did not rely on the government for healthcare, food, shelter, clothing or employment. They were industrious and self reliant. The RKBA was codified in the BOR to prevent the citizen from losing what they had worked for to a foreign power, an internal threat or their fellow man seeking to take what was not theirs. The reason people are so adamant about their gun rights is that this idea is still in their DNA. If they lose their arms then what they have and what they have worked for all their lives can be easily taken away.

Lousy freeper troll!

Whovian (2,436 posts)
7. Excuse me while I go cleanse my brain after having read that.

Please do what you can to help reduce gun violence in whatever way you can.
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Response to Whovian (Reply #7)Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:11 PM
 etherealtruth (7,797 posts)
73. There isn't enough detergent to clean that away!

How do we find ourselves asking kindergarteners to be more courageous in the face of a gunman than politicians are in the face of the gun lobby?"
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Response to JohnnyBoots (Reply #3)Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:53 PM
 obamanut2012 (8,850 posts)
8. People lived short, poverty-stricken lives

Full of disease and death from a cut finger and childbirth.

OMG. What bull.

amandabeech (7,921 posts)
39. The Constitution simply does not provide for all kinds of government action that

Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:48 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

we here on DU, including me, would think necessary on compassionate and human rights grounds.

Nonetheless, we have a Constitution, which may be amended and stretched, that is the basic law of the land.

As a legal matter, and I'm a lawyer unfortunately, we can't just dump it when it's inconvenient. If we did that, we would not have a firm foundation in law.

Most people on DU see the US not as a particular people but as a legal entity. Take away the basic law and you don't have much left to hold us together over the years.

So long as the 2d Amendment remains in its current form, the courts and the government must respect it.

I would applaud efforts to amend the Amendment, which isn't an easy process by design, but until then laws and regulations can only do so much.

This upsets the DUmmies too.

LanternWaste (15,421 posts)
12. Is this what's currently being taught in GED courses?

Is this what's currently being taught in GED courses?

Bless your heart for trying to get that diploma...
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Response to JohnnyBoots (Reply #3)Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:59 PM
Hugabear (9,503 posts)
14. That's a nice right-wing talking point you got yourself there.

Sorry, but y'all poor folk are on yer own. Quit asking the gubmint fer yer handouts.

patrice (44,292 posts)
22. You make the mistake of thinking that everyone wants to take your stuff. Most people just want

Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:15 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

"the haves" to get off of our backs; stop controlling everything with money; let people decide for themselves what they want their taxes to pay for, instead of un-ending war and for-profit "health" "care".

Yeah, there are thieves out there, but the gun response is disproportionate to the possibilities of being robbed, especially when those who protect gun-ownership also hate police, so law-enforcement funding is under attack politically. And someone tell us why fears that your house is going to be robbed, despite high-tech very sophisticated alarm systems that are easily available, is justification for CONCEALED CARRY IN PUBLIC.

And for whatever danger of being robbed in public, why wouldn't OPEN CARRY help prevent that?

And, if like other gun advocates, you tell me that open carry in public will invite being shot by other gun owners, you're basically proving my point: what the **** is the purpose of all of this? And even if I cannot disabuse you of mistakes you are making about all of that, WHY MUST I BE INVOLVED, AGAINST MY WILL, IN THE RISKS THAT YOU CHOOSE?

Funny, when you advocate taking people's stuff they think that you want to take their stuff. Crazy aint it? 

kestrel91316 (43,157 posts)
78. We now have our military and National Guard to protect us from outside

treats and law enforcement to protect us from each other. So there is no earthly need for individuals to be armed to the teeth.

We have laws and courts (though teabaggers want an end to them, too) to keep people from taking your stuff from you. I don't suppose it has ever occurred to gun nutters to exercise their legal rights via our justice system. They seem to want to solve ALL of life's little problems by waving and firing their guns and killing anyone who frightens them.

What a bunch of sissy two-year-olds.

Yep and there is a fire station about 4 blocks from my house so I don't need a fire extinguisher since they have all that cool equipment. 

Yes we have police and they are minutes away from your house, I'm sure the guy who breaks in your house and wants to harm you will gladly sit and wait until the cops get there.  When you are dead the justice system aint gonna bring you back to life, if you have a gun then the cops can scoop up the bad guy's body instead of yours.

SunSeeker (3,196 posts)
28. "General welfare" is in the Constitution; "gun" is not.

Just sayin'.

Abortion isn't in the Constitution either.

Just sayin.

Mojorabbit (12,062 posts)
15. Didn't FDR attempt to pass a second bill of rights with a lot of those other items in it? nt

Hugabear (9,503 posts)
18. You're exactly right. The "2nd Bill of Rights"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

The right for the government to control you.

ReRe (1,240 posts)
57. Absolutely..

 Ha! (as Tweety says it.) Wouldn't it just be peachy if we could get FDR's 2nd Bill of Rights passed? Let's see, who could bring it to the floor? Elizabeth & the Democratic women in the Senate? Nancy and the Democratic women in the House? Actually, this would be in the form of a Constitutional Amendment, where each of the States' would have to ratify it, each with a 2/3 vote? Maybe we could attach a banning of the Citizen's United? Let's put a bug in someone's ear, what say? 

 

Hugabear (9,503 posts)
20. Funny how guns are enshrined, but responsibility to take care of its own citizens is not

IMHO this is one of the primary shortcomings of our Constitution.

How about you try being responsible to take care of yourself?

[Mike220]

28. "General welfare" is in the Constitution; "gun" is not.

Just sayin'.

Since the welfare state you DUmmies orgasm over didn't come around until late 19th century Germany, I don't think that means what you think it means. Idiot.

[FiddyBeowulf]

patrice (44,292 posts)
22.

And for whatever danger of being robbed in public, why wouldn't OPEN CARRY help prevent that?

And, if like other gun advocates, you tell me that open carry in public will invite being shot by other gun owners, you're basically proving my point: what the **** is the purpose of all of this? And even if I cannot disabuse you of mistakes you are making about all of that, WHY MUST I BE INVOLVED, AGAINST MY WILL, IN THE RISKS THAT YOU CHOOSE?

1. No one is saying that.
2. You want to conceal to prevent some weak bladdered DUmmie like you who sees the exposed firearm from panicking and calling the police.

[wasp69]

patrice (44,292 posts)
22.

And, if like other gun advocates, you tell me that open carry in public will invite being shot by other gun owners, you're basically proving my point

Has anyone ever heard this?  What is this retarded monkey talking about?

unSeeker (3,196 posts)
28. "General welfare" is in the Constitution; "gun" is not.

Just sayin'.

With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.

James Madison, Father of the Constitution

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

United States Constitution, Amendment II

"Just sayin'", you ignorant cretin.

[Carl]

Hugabear (9,503 posts)
20. Funny how guns are enshrined, but responsibility to take care of its own citizens is not

IMHO this is one of the primary shortcomings of our Constitution.

The founders were able to discern the nature of man and saw you coming...that is why.

[NHSparky]

We have a "right" to own guns, but not a right to health care, food, shelter, clothing, employment

Pretty much.  Notice nobody on our side of the aisle is demanding you buy my weapons and ammo.  Just saying.

[WinOne4TheGipper]

Here's a hint, DUmmie.  Some of us aren't rolling in the dough and we still don't want your ****ing nanny state bullshit and the loss of freedom it entails.  Take your alleged do-gooder bullshit and shove it.

[franksolich]

Pretty much.  Notice nobody on our side of the aisle is demanding you buy my weapons and ammo.  Just saying.

That's what confused me about this topic.

Do the primitives think other people are paying for other people's firearms and ammunition?

[Celtic Rose]

The right to bear arms allows people the means to protect themselves, their families, and their belongings.  The entire bill of rights is focused on protecting people from an overbearing government.  The Founding Fathers expected people to provide for their own well being, the bill of rights to help make certain that the government doesn't interfere with that unnecessarily.  

Why should a person who doesn't care enough about feeding themselves to prioritize food purchases be guaranteed food?  A pound of dried rice costs around $1.25, dried beans cost about the same.  Even the most basic minimum wage job would allow you to eat.  

[franksolich]

I'm thinking this needs phrased properly.

We have a right to own guns, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to access to health care, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to food, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to shelter, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to clothing, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to employment opportunities, which the individual looks for.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing where the right to own a firearm is superior to all these other rights.


 

[J P Sousa]

We have a "right" to own guns, but not a right to health care, food, shelter, clothing, employment  

I couldn't have said it any better.
.

[NHSparky]

I'm thinking this needs phrased properly.

We have a right to own guns, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to access to health care, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to food, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to shelter, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to clothing, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to employment opportunities, which the individual looks for.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing where the right to own a firearm is superior to all these other rights.


 

The problem is, with the exception of the first, all those things you listed is something they want SOMEONE ELSE to pay for.

[franksolich]

The problem is, with the exception of the first, all those things you listed is something they want SOMEONE ELSE to pay for.

Exactly.

That's why the primitive's original topic is.....stupid.

[Traveshamockery]

I'm thinking this needs phrased properly.

We have a right to own guns, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to access to health care, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to food, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to shelter, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to clothing, which the individual pays for.

We have a right to employment opportunities, which the individual looks for.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing where the right to own a firearm is superior to all these other rights.


 

Careful, Frank.  The primitives cannot comprehend any sentence that says "which the individual pays for."  In their feeble minds, they don't have to pay for anything. 

[WinOne4TheGipper]

That's what confused me about this topic.

Do the primitives think other people are paying for other people's firearms and ammunition?

That's the thing: the rights enumerated in the constitution are conditioned on the idea that it is your responsibility to exercise them.  I have the right to own a gun.  I do not have the right to make you buy it for me.  I have the freedom of speech, but I cannot demand that NBC gives me airtime or even that the local newspaper has to print my LTTE.  I do have a right to earn a living.  I do not have the right to force Bill Gates to provide me one.

[J P Sousa]

The myth of a second bill of rights.

FDR created high expectations and;

 A second Bill of Rights;

 The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.


The DUmmies Utopia.

[Freeper]

That's the thing: the rights enumerated in the constitution are conditioned on the idea that it is your responsibility to exercise them.  I have the right to own a gun.  I do not have the right to make you buy it for me.  I have the freedom of speech, but I cannot demand that NBC gives me airtime or even that the local newspaper has to print my LTTE.  I do have a right to earn a living.  I do not have the right to force Bill Gates to provide me one.

I was about to say the same thing. 

 

[Duke Nukum]

Hugabear (9,503 posts)

We have a "right" to own guns, but not a right to health care, food, shelter, clothing, employment

We have the right to bear arms but not the right to arm bears so you are just a loser on all levels of the argument.

That being the case, you will never be happy and so should immediately emigrate to North Korea where, at least, you can experience your unhappy life in the dark where you will offend fewer people.

Thank you for playing and here is the only recepe I could nadin for tree bark soup.  Endure.

[Maxiest]

“The Constitution only guarantees the American people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.”

― Benjamin Franklin


Maybe you DUmmies should read the Deceleration of Independence sometime... oh wait it has the word God in it to many times.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[98ZJUSMC]

 The entire bill of rights is focused on protecting people from an overbearing government.

It is impossible to get the big wits to understand that extraordinarily simple point.

[98ZJUSMC]

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education. 

How many f*cking times do we have to go over this (D)Ummies.  Every item on that list exists and has existed for years.

You just don't get it given to you.  You. Earn. It.

[Maxiest]

How many f*cking times do we have to go over this (D)Ummies.  Every item on that list exists and has existed for years.

You just don't get it given to you.  You. Earn. It.

Defenition and link for the slow DUmmies.

earn 1  (ûrn)
tr.v. earned, earn·ing, earns
1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns.
2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker.
3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest on deposited funds.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/earn

[98ZJUSMC]

Defenition and link for the slow DUmmies.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/earn

[Airwolf]

****ing children. Always crying about how unfair life is. Well here's a news flash and you have heard it before but life is hard and it's even harder when your stupid. The rest of society is not your personnel bank account unless they chose to give you something out of the goodness of their hearts. I have no involvement in your sex lives so do not ask me or anyone to pay for your bad decisions. I'm also not responsible for getting you food or anything else,that is your job and you might want to start doing something about it because it may soon come to pass that all this crap your asking all of us to pay for will stop coming to you.

[DLR Pyro]

JohnnyBoots (2,780 posts)
3. When the Second Amendment was written

people did not rely on the government for healthcare, food, shelter, clothing or employment. They were industrious and self reliant.

ahh,the good old days.  Where have they gone?