You want to know who is to blame for this, lurking DUmbasses?

[Airwolf]

I'll add to this:  Two things that I see missing from this picture (prior to the rampage) is guns and God.  

If our children are our most precious resource (and they are) then why the Hell are we not protecting them as such?  We are living in a society where we see the results of decades of no limit/moral relativism teachings has produced.  None of us are surprised (at least none of us that know what turns savages into savages) and we have no real choice but to ride out this part of our Country's history while trying to turn back to societal mores that reflect what they used to be.  Until the day arrives where people act like civilized human beings and not ego-maniacal animals, we had best be prepared to make these trogs assume room temperature should they ever cross our paths.  That includes safeguarding our children with more than good intentions.  

Creating "gun free zones" does nothing to stop criminals, it only emboldens them.  I have yet to see one area of restrictive gun control do anything other than corral the sheep for fleecing.  What these liberal shitbags have done is set up areas where the maximum amount of damage can be done in the minimum amount of time.  CT is not exactly known for its lax gun laws so according to liberal "logic", this type of event never should have happened.  That they don't see this is really no mystery, these aren't exactly "smart" people to begin with.  If there is one thing we could point to that can be hung around their greasy necks, it would be the free fire zones they create in the areas they control.  

Kicking God out of school did not happen in a vacuum.  Whenever there is an area where God is denied, you can expect chaos, darkness, tyranny, mayhem, and death to follow without fail.  Every place where God was denied, people suffered.  I'm not saying that bringing the Lord's Prayer back to school day routine is going to solve everything, but it sure wouldn't hurt to return the damn schools to some semblance of morals and standards that they used to have.

Liberals are responsible for this tragedy -  they own it 110%.  Don't you guys think it's high time we made sure they did?

Well Said. Also it is a problem with mental health. Some people should not be allowed loose among the rest of us. Were there abuses in the system where wrongfully detained people were committed or abused. Yes there were but there are laws that keep most of that from happening now days. There are no easy answers but something needs to be done and its not gun control in any fashion.

[jtyangel]

Well Said. Also it is a problem with mental health. Some people should not be allowed loose among the rest of us. Were there abuses in the system where wrongfully detained people were committed or abused. Yes there were but there are laws that keep most of that from happening now days. There are no easy answers but something needs to be done and its not gun control in any fashion.

Thank you Airwolf. That's actually all I'm saying too.

I think they are two separate issues and I am loathe to simplify it the way DU does down to guns. Nothing happens when liberals defend mental illness as a civil liberties issue and blame it on guns and conservatives pretend it doesn't exist and blame it on discipline and morality.

Liberals use it as an excuse and conservatives say it is an excuse. IN the meantime, those of us caring for mentally retarded, neurologically impaired, or mentally ill children have to watch the bickering while we hold shit together. It gets ****ing old and I feel like slapping the shit out of both to be honest. No offense friends, but this discussion frustrates me to no end and I feel like I make as much impact as a discussion of dieting with LVL.

[blitzkrieg_17]

Thank you Airwolf. That's actually all I'm saying too.

I think they are two separate issues and I am loathe to simplify it the way DU does down to guns. Nothing happens when liberals defend mental illness as a civil liberties issue and blame it on guns and conservatives pretend it doesn't exist and blame it on discipline and morality.

Liberals use it as an excuse and conservatives say it is an excuse. IN the meantime, those of us caring for mentally retarded, neurologically impaired, or mentally ill children have to watch the bickering while we hold shit together. It gets ****ing old and I feel like slapping the shit out of both to be honest. No offense friends, but this discussion frustrates me to no end and I feel like I make as much impact as a discussion of dieting with LVL.

I think what's being missed in all this talk is, maybe Adam was just a bad seed. I don't know if modern medicine could or would have helped him but I DO know that no treatment can create a conscience where there is none. If he was a socio- or psychopath, there's no "magic pill" for that.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

Yes it does. What is debatable is whether it should be treated with meds when it is not severe AND whether it is overdiagnosed or not(I believe it is). A child with a pretty hefty case of it though is obvious. I think many here only see children in the abstract not either having them or having any with some serious issues and have little concept of how the behavior is out of the norm or that some parents are 'smart' enough to have tried these simplistic measures that are being suggested. I"m saying this as someone who was a disbeliever too. God's had a way of smacking me on the head for being so arrogant unfortunately.  

Those bruises on your hands healed up yet from smacking the ADHD out of Jake honey?

[formerlurker]

Yes it does. What is debatable is whether it should be treated with meds when it is not severe AND whether it is overdiagnosed or not(I believe it is). A child with a pretty hefty case of it though is obvious. I think many here only see children in the abstract not either having them or having any with some serious issues and have little concept of how the behavior is out of the norm or that some parents are 'smart' enough to have tried these simplistic measures that are being suggested. I"m saying this as someone who was a disbeliever too. God's had a way of smacking me on the head for being so arrogant unfortunately. 

The number of cases of severe autism are skyrocketing. There is no misdiagnosis of that. 

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

I think what's being missed in all this talk is, maybe Adam was just a bad seed. I don't know if modern medicine could or would have helped him but I DO know that no treatment can create a conscience where there is none. If he was a socio- or psychopath, there's no "magic pill" for that.

Actually there are! There also used to be places for these folks to go when they had a break or episode.Many of them have been shuttered and both political parties bear the fault in their closure. We need to have a serious discussion in this country about both mental illness and morality...and everyone needs to be involved because it respects no political party or agenda.It can affect everyone to one extent or another.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

The number of cases of severe autism are skyrocketing. There is no misdiagnosis of that. 

I think Jty was talking about ADHD there FL.

[formerlurker]

This is for formerlurker too. I doubt the vaccine connection because there are families with a history of it, but I don't think they connected it before. In my family, I now know my late cousin was classically autistic although somewhat verbal(he died in a home in the last couple years from a sugar low:-(. I guess I should say I doubt it in MY case. I think it's not one case. Maybe what my son has is probably what was likely 50 years ago before it had a name. The genetic form of autism. the kind you are discussing could explain spiking now, but is not likely the case for everyone. I strongly believe it's a genetic thing in mine so when I read the vaccine stuff, it has no relevance to me. I chose because of autoimmune issues to space out vaccines. There's a strong link too of autoimmune issues in my family so I thought over burdening an immature one so that it ends up 'storming' on and off the rest of their life when faced with any challenge was not a good idea.

I believe the genetic connection relates largely to the susceptibility to vaccine injury (as the majority of children who get vaccines are clearly not autistic).   I don't know if there is a main cause of autism, but I do know that in the early 90s the rate of this disability took off through the roof.   You don't go from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 88 on better diagnosis, or overdiagnosis.   Something is up, and precious few in Congress seems to care to find out why.  

There is a tsunami of children who are aging out of school services (turning 21, and 22).    They are profoundly affected by autism and will require intense adult services.   The government will no longer be able to ignore the problem then.   There was a Congressman at the hearing (forget his name off the top of my head) who had his seat for almost 30 years.    He talked about the CDC pleading with them over AIDS, it's an epidemic that requires Congress to act.    1 in 88 for autism?  meh, nothing to see here.    The same urgency you won't find which is mind boggling to me to say the very least.

[formerlurker]

I think what's being missed in all this talk is, maybe Adam was just a bad seed. I don't know if modern medicine could or would have helped him but I DO know that no treatment can create a conscience where there is none. If he was a socio- or psychopath, there's no "magic pill" for that.

With everything written to date (and who knows if you can believe it), I don't see it. 

[formerlurker]

Actually there are! There also used to be places for these folks to go when they had a break or episode.Many of them have been shuttered and both political parties bear the fault in their closure. We need to have a serious discussion in this country about both mental illness and morality...and everyone needs to be involved because it respects no political party or agenda.It can affect everyone to one extent or another.

100% agreed.  H5.

[formerlurker]

I think Jty was talking about ADHD there FL.

Ah ok - my mistake.

[delilahmused]

Kev? I believe his brother told investigators he had a personality disorder along with Asbergers. Schizophrenia is one of many different types of personality disorders.His bro didn't specify which one he had.So i think FL was probably speculating as to which one is all.

Schizophrenia is a psychosis not a personality disorder although schizoid personality disorder which is on the severe end of the schizo spectrum is. The distinction is important because personality disorders are much harder to treat than a psychosis. The problem with schizophrenia is that when they feel better they tend to go off of their meds. While people with personality disorders can have a psychotic break, it's not an ongoing characteristic as with schizophrenia.

Son of Sam had severe paranoia (a symptom of schizophrenia) and  heard voices telling him to kill, I'm not sure mass killers like this do. This is such a selfish, egotistical thing to do (even if they die or kill themselves the know before they do it they'll be famous or at least be a center of attention for a while). And these people plan these things, maybe not for months and months, but the guy who shot up the theater actually made sure he went to a theater that was a "gun free zone". Then again, I think people with personality disorders can go through life without any real problems. Look at the narcissist in chief.  

I have no clue what to do about to prevent these things from happening. I do think there's a pattern being that the majority are young white males. Society is failing them in so many ways. And I don't think the country can begin to move beyond knee-jerk reactions until the shock wears off and the nation can think more clearly (not necessarily the parents who lost their babies or the community surrounding Sandy Hook). Right now every news channel has a different psychiatrist on trying to diagnose this kid or to explain why this happens but neither they nor anyone else has enough information to make sense of this. Maybe we never will.

In between the psychiatrists there are the pro & con (mostly pro) gun control crowd. Whether the anti gun crowd manages to restrict gun rights or not, these purely evil people will find a way to get guns if they want. We, as a society, need to find a way to help our young men before they reach this stage. Our society focuses so heavily on girls that boys get lost in the shuffle. But is this a symptom or not? I don't know but it's just as valid as looking at anything else.

I don't think the whole "violent video games & movies" plays a role, either, but  people are going to be inclined to prove this plays a role. My oldest son, from the time he was 4, his favorite movie was Rambo. There were times when he'd watch it more than once a day and he had to have toy guns "just like Rambo's". Obviously my youngest was exposed to these kinds of movies too (I was outnumbered 3 to 1). While there were certain video games that I thought were too graphic for my youngest that my oldest couldn't play until his brother went to bed, I'd rather have them watch graphic violence than graphic sex. And until they reached a certain level of maturity they certainly weren't allowed to watch slasher horror films with me.

Right now, though, "why" is a normal question and we really should find out as much as we can to answer it, but the "what to do" about it need to wait until we're more rational.

Cindie

[Airwolf]

I forgot to mention that I do not think that culture is entirely to blame. The guy in China wasn't ezposed to graphic violence and from what I know the typical Asian family has a much stricter way of handling their kids then we in the west do even if its in a communist country. They tend to have more disiplone in the family then we do but then again I could be wrong. The problem with that kd may never be found out since he shot himself which seems to be a trend when this happenes. The only thing to d ois try and find a way to help those that need it and to maybe put those that can't be helped away someplace where they can't hurt anyone.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

Schizophrenia is a psychosis not a personality disorder although schizoid personality disorder which is on the severe end of the schizo spectrum is. The distinction is important because personality disorders are much harder to treat than a psychosis. The problem with schizophrenia is that when they feel better they tend to go off of their meds. While people with personality disorders can have a psychotic break, it's not an ongoing characteristic as with schizophrenia.

Son of Sam had severe paranoia (a symptom of schizophrenia) and  heard voices telling him to kill, I'm not sure mass killers like this do. This is such a selfish, egotistical thing to do (even if they die or kill themselves the know before they do it they'll be famous or at least be a center of attention for a while). And these people plan these things, maybe not for months and months, but the guy who shot up the theater actually made sure he went to a theater that was a "gun free zone". Then again, I think people with personality disorders can go through life without any real problems. Look at the narcissist in chief.  

I have no clue what to do about to prevent these things from happening. I do think there's a pattern being that the majority are young white males. Society is failing them in so many ways. And I don't think the country can begin to move beyond knee-jerk reactions until the shock wears off and the nation can think more clearly (not necessarily the parents who lost their babies or the community surrounding Sandy Hook). Right now every news channel has a different psychiatrist on trying to diagnose this kid or to explain why this happens but neither they nor anyone else has enough information to make sense of this. Maybe we never will.

In between the psychiatrists there are the pro & con (mostly pro) gun control crowd. Whether the anti gun crowd manages to restrict gun rights or not, these purely evil people will find a way to get guns if they want. We, as a society, need to find a way to help our young men before they reach this stage. Our society focuses so heavily on girls that boys get lost in the shuffle. But is this a symptom or not? I don't know but it's just as valid as looking at anything else.

I don't think the whole "violent video games & movies" plays a role, either, but  people are going to be inclined to prove this plays a role. My oldest son, from the time he was 4, his favorite movie was Rambo. There were times when he'd watch it more than once a day and he had to have toy guns "just like Rambo's". Obviously my youngest was exposed to these kinds of movies too (I was outnumbered 3 to 1). While there were certain video games that I thought were too graphic for my youngest that my oldest couldn't play until his brother went to bed, I'd rather have them watch graphic violence than graphic sex. And until they reached a certain level of maturity they certainly weren't allowed to watch slasher horror films with me.

Right now, though, "why" is a normal question and we really should find out as much as we can to answer it, but the "what to do" about it need to wait until we're more rational.

Cindie

My mistake.I got schizotypal and schizophrenia mixed up.

[JohnnyReb]

Why is it that whenever one of these nut cases goes off, the media can find all sorts of classmates, friends, teachers, school admins and neighbors to speculate on what went wrong with the moron....

But they never seem to find the Pastor, Priest, Minister, Rabbi or fellow church/synagogue members who can remember them?

....and they never interview a person that says, "That boy needed his ass kicked."

[GOBUCKS]

I have sisters who are longtime teachers in West By God.

They say their schools have whole families where every child is receiving SSI for some kind of mental disability.

It's the sort of thing that trailer trash parents just sign their kids up for automatically, and they get a check every month.

In the past, if there were any snags, you would just contact Senator Byrd's office.

In some areas, adult males get black lung benefits almost as easily - all they have to do is prove time working underground.

Any problem, you contact Senator Byrd or your congressman. I'm sure they haven't missed a beat since Byrd died.

Of course that's all anecdotal, but I'd bet the farm it's accurate.

So, when you hear talk about expanding benefits for mental illness, just remember you're opening a Pandora's box of untold dimensions.

[ChuckJ]

Some of you have said that there was a psychological component or cause to the Connecticut tragedy. I can agree with that. I would think that in every murder there is some sort of psychological component or cause.

Some of you have said that the number psychological problems in this country are increasing. I can't dispute that, and I'm more than willing to take your word for it.

Some of you have said that you don't belief cultural or societal influences or lack thereof can be labeled as the cause. I don't know.

What I do know is that nature abhors a vacuum.  We've removed so much of the morality and responsibility that was once taught in schools, and something has to fill that vacuum. Apparently it's not additional academics that is filling the vacuum because around here the test scores are constantly dropping.

When I was in school we said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. We were taught manners. We said grace before going to lunch. After lunch we read the Bible. All of this was in a public school. Even if they have increased, psychological problems are not something that is new. Surely during my twelve years of public school we had a few people with psychological problems, but through it all we never had a school massacre. I can't remember a single school massacre any where in the country during my twelve years.

I have to find it suspicious that school massacres began AFTER our schools were liberalized. I'm not discounting other reasons contribute to these massacres. I'm just saying that we can't ignore the fact that these things begin after we, as a nation, began turning from everything good and decent.

Maybe in the past the teachers and neighbors were more concerned about the actual individual's wellbeing instead of feelings. Maybe this resulted in potential perpetrators being cut off at the pass. I don't know.

I do know that nothing will bring these adults and children back to life. I do know that the liberals will use this tragedy to get their agenda forward. And I suspect that the forwarding of their agenda will ultimately cause many more problems that it solves.

[formerlurker]

So, when you hear talk about expanding benefits for mental illness, just remember you're opening a Pandora's box of untold dimensions.

I don't hear anyone talk about expanding benefits for mental illness.    I hear people state that those with mental illness are not getting access to services they need.

Why?  Because of the misfits of society you speak of, and at the DU suck the system dry.  A system that was set up for those who truly need it (have significant disabilities, be that physical, cognitive or mental illness). 

[delilahmused]

My mistake.I got schizotypal and schizophrenia mixed up.

Oh how could you not? The whole mental health system is crazier than the people they're trying to "cure".

Cindie

[catsmtrods]

I think its more of a good vs evil thing. The constant bashing of everything good is giving more power to everything evil. When you turn out the light at night the darkness takes over. Makes me think of the cartoons I watched when I was a boy with the devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other, both trying to convince the person to do things their way. Well the angel's argument has been weekend by all the anti Christian BS that's been pumped in our head recently so in weak minds the devil wins and evil takes over.

I know I have a simple mind. How to combat the evil that seems to be taking over? All I can think to do is pray.

[jtyangel]

Those bruises on your hands healed up yet from smacking the ADHD out of Jake honey?

Please. Not to mention the interaction between him and my autistic I e when the Autsie senses his brother is going over a cliff. Yikes.

[jtyangel]

I believe the genetic connection relates largely to the susceptibility to vaccine injury (as the majority of children who get vaccines are clearly not autistic).   I don't know if there is a main cause of autism, but I do know that in the early 90s the rate of this disability took off through the roof.   You don't go from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 88 on better diagnosis, or overdiagnosis.   Something is up, and precious few in Congress seems to care to find out why.   

There is a tsunami of children who are aging out of school services (turning 21, and 22).    They are profoundly affected by autism and will require intense adult services.   The government will no longer be able to ignore the problem then.   There was a Congressman at the hearing (forget his name off the top of my head) who had his seat for almost 30 years.    He talked about the CDC pleading with them over AIDS, it's an epidemic that requires Congress to act.    1 in 88 for autism?  meh, nothing to see here.    The same urgency you won't find which is mind boggling to me to say the very least.

My cousin was born prior to that increase on vaccinations. And autistics have been around before the prevalence as well. I don't consider my family to be part of the vaccination group you are referring to or that a specific injury is had from it. In our case we also paced vaccination slower then the recommend. I'm sorry but I'm not part of the group that believes vaccines are responsible. At least not in my case and I'm more focused on that because of the genetic consequences for my own children as they go in to have their own families. As long as all the avenues are being evaluated as to the cause then there's no harm in our differing opinions on this.

[Gina]

I went with the dr's schedule for vaccinations on all my kids.  So far so good.  I really have no idea why there is such a huge influx of autism or something like it.