You want to know who is to blame for this, lurking DUmbasses?

[formerlurker]

No I'm saying that but somehow he grew up to be a monster and I think it has to do with how society, parents and teachers don't seem to be teaching what is right and wrong anymore. And like Reb said if you dare punish your kids for bad behavior you could end up the one being in trouble. We have suffered major cultural rot for a long time and we are seeing our chickens come home to roost.

How do you know he wasn't raised in a strict home?   His brother seems to be fine.

[Freeper]

Heres the problem i have with that theory Freep. We have had serial/mass killers in one form or another since the beginning of time.Ted Bundy is a perfect example of a serial killer who was raised in a very strict conservative christian home where i.m quite sure thet his mother didnt spare him an ass whipping. Evil does exist but so does mental  illness and i've never seen a mentally ill person cured from a good spanking! While I agree morality has gone in the shitter its not the only cause of these things happening.

I didn't claim it was the only reason but I suspect our cultural rot has something to do with it.

If there was one simple cause to any if this we could stop it but there isn't. Until this country gets a wake up call we are going to see more and more of this.

Even if we do it will still happen because evil will always exist. But I honestly think if we can shift our culture back to sanity we won't see as much of this.

[jtyangel]

No I'm saying that but somehow he grew up to be a monster and I think it has to do with how society, parents and teachers don't seem to be teaching what is right and wrong anymore. And like Reb said if you dare punish your kids for bad behavior you could end up the one being in trouble. We have suffered major cultural rot for a long time and we are seeing our chickens come home to roost.

I really don't knwo what else to say if you truly believe this. If this were true then we probably should all lock the doors and pull the shutters now because last I checked there are a lot of over-indulged kids out there and the worse they do is vote for Obama and be impolite little buttheads. I don't know a one of the several I would consider this to be true of who would kill children in a temper tantrum. I'm really  astounded today.  How anyone could raise a child if they believe this and not worry that any extra Christmas present, any family trip, any minor indulgence might contribute to them becoming a killer I can't imagine. I'd be filled with constant anxiety if this were the case.

[Celtic Rose]

No I'm saying that but somehow he grew up to be a monster and I think it has to do with how society, parents and teachers don't seem to be teaching what is right and wrong anymore. And like Reb said if you dare punish your kids for bad behavior you could end up the one being in trouble. We have suffered major cultural rot for a long time and we are seeing our chickens come home to roost.

I dont think this is an example of poor parenting.  His brother, raised in the same home, is a successful professional, reportedly outgoing with plenty of friends.  Neighbors said that when he was arrested, they knew that the wrong brother was being accused.  

[Freeper]

How do you know he wasn't raised in a strict home?   His brother seems to be fine.

You know as much as I do and all we are doing us speculating. If you think that our culture has no effect on this then that is your opinion. I have stated my thoughts and if you don't agree then that is fine. There is no simple answer to this.

[Freeper]

I really don't knwo what else to say if you truly believe this. If this were true then we probably should all lock the doors and pull the shutters now because last I checked there are a lot of over-indulged kids out there and the worse they do is vote for Obama and be impolite little buttheads. I don't know a one of the several I would consider this to be true of who would kill children in a temper tantrum. I'm really  astounded today.  How anyone could raise a child if they believe this and not worry that any extra Christmas present, any family trip, any minor indulgence might contribute to them becoming a killer I can't imagine. I'd be filled with constant anxiety if this were the case.

I don't know where you got all that from.

[jtyangel]

Neurological disorders are on the rise, and it can be traced to the early 90s when Hillary rammed through mandatory vaccines at an obscene amount per visit.     The military won't even give more than 4 vaccines at a time for those deploying overseas, yet infants are getting sometimes 6+ per visit.  

Vaccines are extremely important, but the amount when coupled with this steep increase in neurological disorders should prompt the CDC and Congress to put the brakes on.    

See and I actually part ways with formerlurker here. I see the problem as kind of an offshoot of having such good medical care which I can't elaborate on now and I don't think we should go backward. Another factor might be advanced maternal age. Women are waiting longer to have children, this increases the risk of disability and could be a contributor to things like this. Things have changed a lot, but morality is only one piece of the puzzle. I'm sure you'll admit the when and hows we have children now has changed too. Things like advanced maternal age and they are even saying advanced PATERNAL age can affect things negatively too.

Perhaps even this is where in a less kooky way we should consider things liberals champion like genetic engineered food or hormone laced milk. Perhaps it's safe for MOST but may create problems in a handful of cases. How do we research to figure out those problems and which groups are more affected so they can mitigate that risk.

To me this is a more prudent route considering the changes in our food supply, age and how we have babies, etc.

I think there ar ea number of things to look at that are 'different' then 30, 40, 50 years ago.

A good case in point is baby boomers. Maybe one of the more spoiled generations ever, but we didn't see this kind of thing like this then so???? Why? Why would that self-indulged generation not have acted out if it was a matter of spoiling? Certainly many turned godless in their adult years and that's quite evident given the culture of their early adulthood..so what is the explanation there if it's a matter of not spoiling?

And with that, I got things I gotta run and do folks). Later!

[wasp69]

YOU!

I'll add to this:  Two things that I see missing from this picture (prior to the rampage) is guns and God.  

If our children are our most precious resource (and they are) then why the Hell are we not protecting them as such?  We are living in a society where we see the results of decades of no limit/moral relativism teachings has produced.  None of us are surprised (at least none of us that know what turns savages into savages) and we have no real choice but to ride out this part of our Country's history while trying to turn back to societal mores that reflect what they used to be.  Until the day arrives where people act like civilized human beings and not ego-maniacal animals, we had best be prepared to make these trogs assume room temperature should they ever cross our paths.  That includes safeguarding our children with more than good intentions.  

Creating "gun free zones" does nothing to stop criminals, it only emboldens them.  I have yet to see one area of restrictive gun control do anything other than corral the sheep for fleecing.  What these liberal shitbags have done is set up areas where the maximum amount of damage can be done in the minimum amount of time.  CT is not exactly known for its lax gun laws so according to liberal "logic", this type of event never should have happened.  That they don't see this is really no mystery, these aren't exactly "smart" people to begin with.  If there is one thing we could point to that can be hung around their greasy necks, it would be the free fire zones they create in the areas they control.  

Kicking God out of school did not happen in a vacuum.  Whenever there is an area where God is denied, you can expect chaos, darkness, tyranny, mayhem, and death to follow without fail.  Every place where God was denied, people suffered.  I'm not saying that bringing the Lord's Prayer back to school day routine is going to solve everything, but it sure wouldn't hurt to return the damn schools to some semblance of morals and standards that they used to have.

Liberals are responsible for this tragedy -  they own it 110%.  Don't you guys think it's high time we made sure they did?

[Freeper]

I dont think this is an example of poor parenting.  His brother, raised in the same home, is a successful professional, reportedly outgoing with plenty of friends.  Neighbors said that when he was arrested, they knew that the wrong brother was being accused. 

I'm not claiming to have all the answers I just say what I think may be part of the problem 

I'm staring to think I should have kept my mouth shut since everyone ganged up on me. :D:

[Carl]

Here is what I have seen in my lifetime from the liberal education establishment.

In the early 90s it was discovered that diagnosing every difficult child with a disorder meant an increase in funding and that meant an increase in staff (union dues) but rarely any help for those that truly needed it.

The alphabet syndrome has almost become a badge of honor and an excuse for both the student as well as the teacher.
I am not in any way ridiculing those that actually do have a disability,what is sad is that it has become so watered down that they will not get the help they do need.

[formerlurker]

You know as much as I do and all we are doing us speculating. If you think that our culture has no effect on this then that is your opinion. I have stated my thoughts and if you don't agree then that is fine. There is no simple answer to this.

This is what I posted:

Rebel, this individual was none of those things.   He most likely had paranoid schizophrenia or something very similar. 

I will agree that children today have no respect for adults or others; believe they are entitled to whatever they desire; have very weak work ethics; and are exposed to violent movies and video games to the point they are desensitized to this kind of violence.    While that is a serious problem, these children are not shooting up schools.

The change in culture/society is not producing mass murderers.   

[Freeper]

This is what I posted:

The change in culture/society is not producing mass murderers.

I don't think it us producing mass murders I do think it has helped nudge some people in that direction.

[formerlurker]

See and I actually part ways with formerlurker here. I see the problem as kind of an offshoot of having such good medical care which I can't elaborate on now and I don't think we should go backward. Another factor might be advanced maternal age. Women are waiting longer to have children, this increases the risk of disability and could be a contributor to things like this. Things have changed a lot, but morality is only one piece of the puzzle. I'm sure you'll admit the when and hows we have children now has changed too. Things like advanced maternal age and they are even saying advanced PATERNAL age can affect things negatively too.

Perhaps even this is where in a less kooky way we should consider things liberals champion like genetic engineered food or hormone laced milk. Perhaps it's safe for MOST but may create problems in a handful of cases. How do we research to figure out those problems and which groups are more affected so they can mitigate that risk.

To me this is a more prudent route considering the changes in our food supply, age and how we have babies, etc.

I think there ar ea number of things to look at that are 'different' then 30, 40, 50 years ago.

A good case in point is baby boomers. Maybe one of the more spoiled generations ever, but we didn't see this kind of thing like this then so???? Why? Why would that self-indulged generation not have acted out if it was a matter of spoiling? Certainly many turned godless in their adult years and that's quite evident given the culture of their early adulthood..so what is the explanation there if it's a matter of not spoiling?

And with that, I got things I gotta run and do folks). Later!

If neurological disorders were limited to advanced age of parent then I would agree, but it is not.   It affects all geographical/socio-economic backgrounds and maternal/paternal age groups.    

I don't know what causes autism.   I do know the rates of autism and other neurological disorders are rising at an alarming rate.  

[formerlurker]

I don't think it us producing mass murders I do think it has helped nudge some people in that direction.

I don't know how one makes the leap from pampered/spoiled to cold blooded murderer (of small children no less) in twenty years time.  

[formerlurker]

Here is what I have seen in my lifetime from the liberal education establishment.

In the early 90s it was discovered that diagnosing every difficult child with a disorder meant an increase in funding and that meant an increase in staff (union dues) but rarely any help for those that truly needed it.

The alphabet syndrome has almost become a badge of honor and an excuse for both the student as well as the teacher.
I am not in any way ridiculing those that actually do have a disability,what is sad is that it has become so watered down that they will not get the help they do need.

Unfortunately that is no longer the case.  In MA, which arguably is the best state of the union for special education services, enacted education reform in the early 90s which capped that extra funding for children on IEPs to 3% of student population.   Their intent was to stem this fraud for funding you speak of here that was uncovered in MD.    The thought process was if they limit funding, then school districts will stop labeling students as disabled.

That failed miserably.    The state average of children with disabilities hovers around the 17-18% mark, and has been since ed reform.     This means presently schools are grossly underfunded for special education.   Note, this does not mean I am advocating for more spending as I am not.   I am advocating for better education programming, which can be done with the funding they currently receive.

[Rebel]

Mental Illness exists.  It is not just the result of an indulgent culture.  It is not caused by violent video games or overly permissive parenting. Serious mental illness is not created, it is born.  Anti-social personality disorder (a sociopath) is a real thing, there are people who honestly cannot relate to others due to chemical imbalances in the brain, not due to their upbringing.  It sounds like anti-socal personality disorder is the mental issue that is most commonly being linked to Adam Lanza.

This shooting is not the result of a culture redefining morality.  

Then why is it just now on the rise within the past 15 years? You're a lot younger than many of us here, so please understand our point. I'll be 40 in February. I don't remember ever hearing about this BS coming up.

[Rebel]

Neurological disorders are on the rise, and it can be traced to the early 90s when Hillary rammed through mandatory vaccines at an obscene amount per visit.     The military won't even give more than 4 vaccines at a time for those deploying overseas, yet infants are getting sometimes 6+ per visit.  

Vaccines are extremely important, but the amount when coupled with this steep increase in neurological disorders should prompt the CDC and Congress to put the brakes on.    

I can buy that and it does seem to correlate. I also think a lot of kids on ADD/ADHD medicine aren't diagnosed properly and should probably have their asses whipped to get them to pay attention. Does ADD/ADHD exist? I can't say yes or no. Many doctors say yes. What I do know is if I had a problem paying attention and started slipping in my grades, my dad had his own prescription, and it was leather-based.

[Rebel]

As for a proactive move, find one or two teachers at each wing, make them go through training, and arm them. You say, "but what if the teacher goes on a rampage?" To that I say, A) when's the last time that happened, and B) what prevents him/her from doing it now? We know the alternative to teachers NOT being armed now, don't we?

[Wineslob]

Kicking God out of school did not happen in a vacuum.  Whenever there is an area where God is denied, you can expect chaos, darkness, tyranny, mayhem, and death to follow without fail.  Every place where God was denied, people suffered.  I'm not saying that bringing the Lord's Prayer back to school day routine is going to solve everything, but it sure wouldn't hurt to return the damn schools to some semblance of morals and standards that they used to have.

Liberals are responsible for this tragedy -  they own it 110%.  Don't you guys think it's high time we made sure they did?

This.

We choose to ignore history at our peril.

H5

[jtyangel]

Then why is it just now on the rise within the past 15 years? You're a lot younger than many of us here, so please understand our point. I'll be 40 in February. I don't remember ever hearing about this BS coming up.

http://www.k12academics.com/school-shootings/history-school-shootings-united-states

[Rebel]

http://www.k12academics.com/school-shootings/history-school-shootings-united-states

You realize most of those were crimes with motivation, right? Someone's grades, someone broke up with someone, etc. I mean senseless mass murders and they seem to be more and more common in the past 15 years. I've seen that before.

[jtyangel]

I can buy that and it does seem to correlate. I also think a lot of kids on ADD/ADHD medicine aren't diagnosed properly and should probably have their asses whipped to get them to pay attention. Does ADD/ADHD exist? I can't say yes or no. Many doctors say yes. What I do know is if I had a problem paying attention and started slipping in my grades, my dad had his own prescription, and it was leather-based.

Yes it does. What is debatable is whether it should be treated with meds when it is not severe AND whether it is overdiagnosed or not(I believe it is). A child with a pretty hefty case of it though is obvious. I think many here only see children in the abstract not either having them or having any with some serious issues and have little concept of how the behavior is out of the norm or that some parents are 'smart' enough to have tried these simplistic measures that are being suggested. I"m saying this as someone who was a disbeliever too. God's had a way of smacking me on the head for being so arrogant unfortunately. 

[jtyangel]

I can buy that and it does seem to correlate. I also think a lot of kids on ADD/ADHD medicine aren't diagnosed properly and should probably have their asses whipped to get them to pay attention. Does ADD/ADHD exist? I can't say yes or no. Many doctors say yes. What I do know is if I had a problem paying attention and started slipping in my grades, my dad had his own prescription, and it was leather-based.

This is for formerlurker too. I doubt the vaccine connection because there are families with a history of it, but I don't think they connected it before. In my family, I now know my late cousin was classically autistic although somewhat verbal(he died in a home in the last couple years from a sugar low:-(. I guess I should say I doubt it in MY case. I think it's not one case. Maybe what my son has is probably what was likely 50 years ago before it had a name. The genetic form of autism. the kind you are discussing could explain spiking now, but is not likely the case for everyone. I strongly believe it's a genetic thing in mine so when I read the vaccine stuff, it has no relevance to me. I chose because of autoimmune issues to space out vaccines. There's a strong link too of autoimmune issues in my family so I thought over burdening an immature one so that it ends up 'storming' on and off the rest of their life when faced with any challenge was not a good idea.

[jtyangel]

As for a proactive move, find one or two teachers at each wing, make them go through training, and arm them. You say, "but what if the teacher goes on a rampage?" To that I say, A) when's the last time that happened, and B) what prevents him/her from doing it now? We know the alternative to teachers NOT being armed now, don't we?

Actually, with that I agree with you Rebel. I have said to friends that I think this could have been stopped if the principal or the psych had a gun. They had time to react and could have shot him instead of him them. Totally agree on that one.

[jtyangel]

You realize most of those were crimes with motivation, right? Someone's grades, someone broke up with someone, etc. I mean senseless mass murders and they seem to be more and more common in the past 15 years. I've seen that before.

yeah I noticed that, but this is by no means 'new' anymore then sin is new.

Also, this would also support my notion that when we housed very very troubled individuals this did not happen with as much frequently. Again it bolsters the mental health issue does it not? And how it not addressed adequately.

As an aside, we have more to learn about the family. What of his mother. Do YOU think how she was living was healthy with a person like that in her care? Do you think it's possible we had someone caring for someone who was mentally unstable(verified by his brother btw) who herself was in the midst of at least some minor mental issues probably due to her RECENT divorce, being isolated, and alone caring for her son? I can kind of see the perfect storm in this. Ultimately, he probably should have been in a long term care facility and definitely not being cared for someone who probably was dealing with her own demons.