http://www.democraticunderground.com/11281618Oh my.
Even though franksolich's infautation is dead, he still has a vested interest in the cbayer primitive.
I'm fascinated how two adults can possibly live in a space the size of an apartment-building dumb-waiter.
cbayer (111,873 posts) Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:34 PM
The Joys of Simple Living: Water
A while back, I talked about doing a series on my and my husband's personal lifestyle. There was some interest shown by some members, so I thought I might start now.
For those that don't know, Starboard Tack is my husband, and I fully expect him to chime in.
I am hopeful that these threads will encourage others to share their experiences, ask questions and think about how they use resources and dispose of waste.
We live on a 43 foot sailboat. We do not have a slip and are rarely plugged into to the usual services (water, gas, electricity, curbside garbage).
I decided to start with water, because when it comes down to it, it is the most critical item.
The boat carries 150 gallons of water in two steel tanks. When we get the opportunity, we fill those tanks through a municipal supply. We were last on the mainland about 4 months ago, left with a full tank and have completely filled the tank only once since then (last week).
In between those times, we add water by filling 5-6 gallon containers, bringing them to the boat and topping off the tanks. This requires some physical work.
We also have a water maker (desalinator). It makes a little over a gallon an hour and is the source of most of our drinking water. It requires electrical power and can't be run constantly, of course, but we run it every other day or so and get a couple of gallons.
We have a salt water pump in the kitchen. This is great for rinsing and washing dishes, leaving only the final rinse for the fresh water. Soap doesn't get very "soapy" in salt water, but it works well enough for all but the worst dirty dishes.
We have an indoor and outdoor shower. Short, military type showers are the rule, and those only when needed. During this time of year, a swim in the ocean followed by a little soap and a freshwater rinse is really all we need.
The toilet flushes with salt water into a holding tank. We have a spigot on the outside that also pumps salt water if needed for a clean up on deck.
Laundry is mostly done on board with a very water efficient manual washer.
Overall, I figure we use on average less than 3 gallons a day of fresh water.
The bottom line for us is that water requires work and that makes you think about how much you are using. When people come to visit, they often reflexively turn on the tap and let her rip. Since the pump can be heard anywhere on the boat, this most often leads to me racing to wherever they are to explain why we can't do that. We have never had a guest who didn't get it right away and make changes in their usual habits.
Curmudgeoness (8,258 posts) Fri Sep 28, 2012, 08:21 PM
1. Fascinating to contemplate the difficulties just for water.
I live in a house with municipal water....all that I want whenever I want. But I still often think about how lucky I am and I am very conscious of the amount of water that I do use. This may be due to a week I spent at a mountain cabin that had no water supply. We also had to go down the road to get water, haul it up to the cabin, and realized just how much you can do with a gallon of water. First we would have a small pot for washing dishes and one for rinsing. The rinse water became the next dish washing water. The dirty dish water was used to flush the toilet when needed. I still remember this after more than 40 years.
I do not ever want to live without water coming from a faucet again, but I am still very conservative.
cbayer (111,873 posts) Fri Sep 28, 2012, 08:28 PM
2. Sounds like you learned early and well.
Seeing how far a gallon can go can be so enlightening. It's also enlightening to see how fast it can go down the drain if you just let it run.
I don't know how we make this a more universal lesson, but I wish people would pay more attention.
They certainly do in my home when I come running into the kitchen yelling "STOP!".
Thanks so much for adding your own experience, curmudgeons!
Curmudgeoness (8,258 posts) Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:16 PM
8. You are right about how fast it goes down a drain.
I made my sensitive niece cry (unintentionally) when she did dishes at my house. She left the hot water run the whole time she was washing, and I did one of those "stop it" yells. I was especially shocked that she was a southern California born and raised kid, and that is one area that should be practicing water conservation, but obviously don't even think. She is living in Arizona now, and I bet that she still remembers the lessons she learned about saving water that day.
<<always keeps the hot water running while washing dishes.
<<water-heater's set to the highest possible level, whatever that is, near-boiling or something.
<<likes to have clean sanitary dishes.
cbayer (111,873 posts) Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:21 PM
9. Lol at the yell. I have had many a guest be the recipient at that.
I try to refrain when they are in the bathroom, but I swear I start to have an anxiety attack when I hear that pump running.
Kids don't know because they have never been taught and we have an obligation to let them know. Adults are harder. I know people that take several long showers a day. I just can't fathom it. Some of them even have pools, so I really don't get it.
We have a friend who bought a new house a couple of years ago. Some pool maintenance guy told her she needed to drain the entire pool and put new water in it. He gave her some bogus reasons which evaporated after doing a little research.
The day he showed up, we happened to be there and my husband met him at the door. He left without an argument, but I am sure he was mad about losing the deal. Seems criminal to me.
Curmudgeoness (8,258 posts) Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:36 PM
11. That pool water is "stale". LOL.
What in the hell would anyone do with the water drained from a whole pool??? OMG.
The cbayer primitive's other half, who jams himself in there with her:
Starboard Tack (6,647 posts) Fri Sep 28, 2012, 09:52 PM
3. The problem with the wonderful faucet is what we do with it.
Nobody likes to haul water, but I must say there is something cathartic about it. I love to take long showers and wash the car or boat, but not every day. This map illustrates very well how we abuse our natural water resources.
http://chartsbin.com/view/1455
Note that the US and Canada both use more than 7 times the water per capita as the UK. Ironically, there are vast areas of the US suffering from severe droughts and it rains every other day in Britain. Begs the question "Why such a discrepancy?".
I think history has much to do with it. Britain, coming through two world wars, with the great depression in between and followed by several years of food rationing, was trained to be frugal across the board.
Meanwhile, in N. America, the post war period brought enormous prosperity, indoor plumbing became ubiquitous and electricity was cheap and fossil fuels were acceptable and seemingly inexhaustible.
This map shows consumption by percentage available. We use 15% of available water, yet parts of the country are in drought. This is partly due to draining huge aquifers that took millennia to fill and partly to do with redirecting river waters, but mostly due to human arrogance.
http://chartsbin.com/view/1473
Here's another link to what's going on in San Diego
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1127&pid=24858
^^well, the oblate spheroid surely isn't causing any water shortage in San Diego.
The rich bitch the kpete primitive probably does, though; palatial Streisandian grounds take a lot of water.
Curmudgeoness (8,258 posts) Sat Sep 29, 2012, 08:30 PM
10. This country has always been blessed with a wealth of natural resources, including water in most of the country, and I believe that we just learned overconsumption. Everything we do it "over the top" in regard to consumption---house size, energy use, food, consumer products, etc.
The maps are interesting, but I am surprised about the Middle East countries (all those "stan"s) that are using more water per capita than the US. I also would need an explanation as to how a country like Saudi Arabia is able to use 943% of the available water resources. How do you use more that 100% of your resources?
Starboard Tack (6,647 posts) Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:03 PM
12. Great question
I think they either import or desalinate a lot of sea water. Curacao and Aruba come to mind. I think the stans are using for agriculture and their distribution/irrigation methods are probably very inefficient.
abumbyanyothername (2,221 posts) Sun Sep 30, 2012, 01:32 AM
13. The house of Saud burns a lot of oil to desalinate water but I think that is going to end soon.
abumbyanyothername (2,221 posts) Sun Sep 30, 2012, 01:40 AM
15. Do you think it would be possible?
Having just come off a week on a boat . . . with 8,000 of my closest friends (the Oasis of the Seas) and while I was there reading The Transition Handbook (on energy descent), I got to thinking . . . .
Would it be possible to design a food, water, waste and energy self-sufficient floating living space (otherwise known as a boat)?
Not to knock your thread off course or anything.
Even on a luxury cruise, the space constraints and ingenuity applied in the face thereof, was pretty freaking amazing. Bathroom was a 2'x4' wonder and entire cabin was no more than 150'^2.
cbayer (111,873 posts) Sun Sep 30, 2012, 12:00 PM
16. Not exactly sure what you are asking, but, yes, it is quite possible to design and build your own boat. Also, because of the economy, there are a lot of boats on the market at some very good prices.
The efficiencies of a boat are amazing, and I will write more about that in other OP's. We use pretty much every inch of space.
^^I'll bet they do.
I'll bet if the cbayer primitive by accident purchases an extra egg, it crowds the kitchen.
abumbyanyothername (2,221 posts) Sun Sep 30, 2012, 02:17 PM
17. My question is really if you think it would be possible for a boat to be a little self-sufficient aqua-farm . . . floating along, providing all the food, water, energy and waste disposal that the boat's occupants need.
cbayer (111,873 posts) Sun Sep 30, 2012, 02:30 PM
18. We are coming very close to that. The biggest challenge is the farming aspect.
I grow tomatoes and basil. I could easily make sprouts and do make my own bread and (occasionally) cheese, but those need ingredients I can't grow.
I'm not a big fan of fish, but there is sure a plentiful supply and I would certainly eat it if there were few other options. There are also ways to harvest and use kelp and algae.
We have a friend who has built a floating garden that is attached to his boat. The problem comes when it is time to move somewhere, as he can't sail with it attached.
So, the answer is yes. We live most of the time by making our own energy and we take care of our waste (plastic is the primary problem for disposal). We make most of our own electricity, but we do use some diesel for both the engine and the generator, but could use less (or none at all) if we added more solar and wind.
We can go a couple of months without really tapping into the *system* for anything other than groceries.
^^just don't by accident buy an extra potato or wooden match-stick, lest one crowds the kitchen.
