Anyone upset about food stamps is scum

[BEG]

This doesn't have anything to do with food stamps but I wanted the DUmmies to read this response from a doctor on a message board I was reading today. The thread was about a product for dry eyes called Lacrisert and is very expensive. This person posted how this prescription medicine has saved her sight and she is desperate because Medicare will no longer be coving it. This was the doctor's response:

Dr. Ari Weitzner on December 6th, 2010 3:46 pm
i suppose the easiest thing is to go online and find a canada pharmacy that will ship to you. also, call the lacrisert company- im sure they can help.
obamacare took a very big chunk-about $500MM from an already strapped medicare, so im not surprised medicare is cutting back not only on doctors’ fees, but also on what it will cover. i think this will only get worse in the future. no surprise that about 55% of americans are against obamacare in every poll i have read. let’s see if the next congress in 2012 can adjust obamacare and make it better.

People for Obamacare are SCUM.

[MrsSmith]

This doesn't have anything to do with food stamps but I wanted the DUmmies to read this response from a doctor on a message board I was reading today. The thread was about a product for dry eyes called Lacrisert and is very expensive. This person posted how this prescription medicine has saved her sight and she is desperate because Medicare will no longer be coving it. This was the doctor's response:



People for Obamacare are SCUM.

People for Obamacare have no clue what damage it's already done, and the huge damage it will continue to do.  All they care about is "MY bills will get paid," but even that won't be true.  Once insurance companies are destroyed, there will be no money to treat people. With only government income, most healthcare facilities will go bankrupt.  The ones that survive will do so by taking in private patients that pay massive bills for extraordinary care, and by cutting services for everyone else to the very bare minimum.  After all, once Uncle Sam runs it all, who are you going to sue when someone dies?

Many of those same people have no clue that government regulations are causing a huge part of the increase in medical costs.  If Uncle Sam's minions weren't protecting their jobs by writing needless and wasteful regulations, we'd save a ton of money on both health care costs AND the federal government.

[67 Rover]

Bottled water is sillier than the organic vegetable scam.

I'd rather see them getting beer with food stamps. At least then there's a chance they'll drink themselves to death.

I would prefer they not be allowed to buy alcohol as the more likely scenario is that they will kill an actual productive member of society while driving drunk on their way to pick up weed.

[minuteman09]

I would say that anyone who knows what their Civic Duties are as a Citizen and are NOT upset about food stamps is scum.

The source of most of our problems in these united States today, is that most people have no clue as to what their Rights are, and what it means for the Government to ACTUALLY Protect those Rights.  the Economy has crashed because of Socialism, of which EVERY Government Handout Program is.  Socialism includes using the Taxpayers future labor as collateral for Government Guaranteed Housing Loans via Fanny and Freddy.  Socialism includes bailouts.  Anytime the Government acts as though the Fruit of your Labor is the Government's to dispose of as the Government sees fit, rather than Taxing only for the limited role of Protecting the Individual's Rights, then the Government is acting in a Socialist manner.

The Government is NOT ALLOWED to have Handout Programs which Taxpayers have no choice of opting out of.  Each person can decide for themselves if they are willing to fund such a Program, but NO HUMAN, Government, or Majority Vote has the Right to sell my Liberty down the river for me.  It is MY Right to Liberty, to dispose of as I see fit.  The Majority has NO AUTHORITY to Vote as to whether I must surrender my RIGHT to Liberty, just like the Majority has NO AUTHORITY to vote as to whether or not I must waive MY Right to Remain Silent, and it is Government's DUTY to make sure that this is the way things go.

Government's job it protect the Individual's Rights form being violated by somebody else, NOT provide for people.  If I blow it while engaging in my Right to Pursue Happiness and end up starving in the street, nobody's Rights have been violated.  But if somebody is FORCED to Help/Serve me, then their unalienable Right to Liberty HAS been violated.  Since it is the Government's job to Protect Rights, the Government has NO AUTHORITY to violate Rights.  All help for people in need MUST be done VOLUNTARILY, or else the Government is FAILING to do its job.

The 13th Amendment makes ALL Government Handout Programs unconstitutional, by prohibiting Involuntary Servitude. We need to stop playing footsie with the Socialists by accepting their FALSE premise that the Government is allowed to Provide for people, and unite around the fact that this is unconstitutional, and a VIOLATION of the Natural Law that the country is founded on.  Then we can take down the Socialists entire Economy Wrecking house of cards in on fell swoop.  Once the Government stops committing the crime of Socialism upon its Citizens, the Government Handout Program fraud problems will automatically evaporate.

It is our job to make sure the Government is doing its job, which means it is our job to MAKE SURE we know what the Government's job is.

If you think I am incorrect about this, please tell my why.  If you need clarification as to what your Rights are and why, let me know.

[Gina]

I love your passion!  If it wasnt for your screen name I might ask for a date  

[GOBUCKS]

Ronbot.

[jtyangel]

Max and Gina, H5s for doing what you had to do.

You know, I have to say, I am a little confused. I was asked once when saying something about assistance for children with disabilities that I should have somehow planned better for something liek that I had no idea could be coming, yet assistance is ok in this case? Let me clarify too, I'm not inconsistent on this. I see nothing wrong with asking for a helping hand, but why the hypocrisy? Why do our ideals seem to change if it's someone we like we are dealing with or if we are dealing with our own family. I'm sorry, just seeing this really bothered me and I'm sure I'll get piled on for even bringing it up, but pardon me for being a bit butthurt by the inconsistent treatment about assistance. 

[Ballygrl]

You know, I have to say, I am a little confused. I was asked once when saying something about assistance for children with disabilities that I should have somehow planned better for something liek that I had no idea could be coming, yet assistance is ok in this case? Let me clarify too, I'm not inconsistent on this. I see nothing wrong with asking for a helping hand, but why the hypocrisy? Why do our ideals seem to change if it's someone we like we are dealing with or if we are dealing with our own family. I'm sorry, just seeing this really bothered me and I'm sure I'll get piled on for even bringing it up, but pardon me for being a bit butthurt by the inconsistent treatment about assistance.  

Can you link to the thread you're talking about? I haven't seen that thread.

[jtyangel]

Yeah, I was always under the impression that when you decide to have kids that becomes your responsibility not everyone else's.  You aren't guaranteed a perfect child in life so you have to roll with the punches and make sure you have your bases covered with a good job and insurance.  I thought everyone knew this.

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,59132.msg685311.html#msg685311
It was a discussion on education of disabled individuals where there were behavior problems. There was a discussion of assistance and while this was not linked directly to my words, I think that pretty much summed up the idea of just pull up your boots, bend over, and take what you've been given without inconveniencing me. Quite frankly I see that inconsistency quite a bit on here and I know why it happens; human nature being what it is, but there is something to be said for thinking of our own troubles and having some consideration for someone who might be carrying a heavier burden then we are. This is why I'm probably not as stringent as others here on assistance in general. The only thing that chaps my hide about it is that it is being abused by so many people(and I don't mean the folks here who have applied for it for a need). TRUE NEED is what should dictate any manner of assistance whether it be special education, food stamps, etc. Conservatives should be more rational and that means applying a consistent view on broader issues. That's all. Like I said, I don't want to start a bruhaha, but it just stood out in my  mind and it's not the only thread where I've seen a 'throw the disabled person to the lions' kind of attitude yet we give deference to someone we know when they need very basic assistance. Like I said, I just wish we were more consistent and keep in mind every fraud on DU should not justify our judgment of folks with legitmate need. As conservatives, we have to be mindful that we aren't being heavy-handed to our 'brothers' because we want to win an argument to. I don't mean this to indict but to challenge the great conservative minds here to really look inward. This is a big year and we live and die by what we say. Make sure what we say is what we really mean and that we live up to the ideal we might be putting on others just because we are heated at the time. Really all there is to it. Bit of a digression, but it sparks thoughts to the broader application for me. AS someone who has struggled through a divorce and is now starting to come through it with children doing very well, a wonderful boyfriend, and a solid job, I wish those well trying to move forward to get over the hump of life. BTDT, don't judge. 

[MrsSmith]

Jty, I went through that thread.  What I saw was a lot of people agreeing that a problem child should not be allowed to disrupt an entire class, especially with behavior as inappropriate as described, and a basic agreement that the parents are primarily responsible for the child, but that the school has to do whatever it can to deal fairly with all the kids.  I don't really understand how this relates to a thread in which we discuss the fact that some people really desperately need help for a short time, until they can get on their feet, and that we all agree that such help should be available.   

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

Jty, I went through that thread.  What I saw was a lot of people agreeing that a problem child should not be allowed to disrupt an entire class, especially with behavior as inappropriate as described, and a basic agreement that the parents are primarily responsible for the child, but that the school has to do whatever it can to deal fairly with all the kids.  I don't really understand how this relates to a thread in which we discuss the fact that some people really desperately need help for a short time, until they can get on their feet, and that we all agree that such help should be available.  

I think she was trying to politely point out the hypocrisy of what Gina said back then and what she said in this thread. If Jty and her ex have to be solely responsible and have foresight for what kind of child they have then the same should apply to Gina and her brood when it comes to seeking/applying for food assistance. If you're going to claim purity in the independence dept. you really should practice it in real life. I myself have never applied for or gotten help from any government agency whatsoever{i've always went out and gotten a second job when things got tough} but i don't impune folks who do need it on one occasion or another as long as it's not abused. I think what is more disturbing in that thread is how some folks think Special Ed kids should be treated.

[Ballygrl]

OK, I see what you're saying now as far as your argument about hypocrisy.

On certain issues I tend not to go to the extreme, I always think "There but for the Grace of God go I".

[Rebel]

No one has a problem helping people who TRULY need help. As Bally so eloquently opined here:

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,69063.msg804346.html#msg804346

realize there comes a time when welfare goes from a temporary solution to 5 generations of dependency and they need to stop enabling that dependency

However, it should be a bottom up process, NOT a top down process. In other words, help should be as local as possible.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

OK, I see what you're saying now as far as your argument about hypocrisy.

On certain issues I tend not to go to the extreme, I always think "There but for the Grace of God go I".

Yes. I do as well.

[Ballygrl]

Just from my personal online experience and real life encounters with people from various political stripes, conservatives in general have no problem at all with people who are having a hard time and need some assistance, and we tend to donate to Churches to help such people also and food banks, the problem is when generation after generation it turns into an entitlement.

As far as kids who have a disability? again, no problem with the Government or State helping those kids, but at what point does 1 kids rights infringe upon the rights of an entire classroom? Isn't it possible that there are a few kids who through no fault of their own have such excessive behavior that it disrupts everyone else? not saying to just throw that kid away, but maybe some private school time at home would be helpful until something else is figured out?

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

Just from my personal online experience and real life encounters with people from various political stripes, conservatives in general have no problem at all with people who are having a hard time and need some assistance, and we tend to donate to Churches to help such people also and food banks, the problem is when generation after generation it turns into an entitlement.

As far as kids who have a disability? again, no problem with the Government or State helping those kids, but at what point does 1 kids rights infringe upon the rights of an entire classroom? Isn't it possible that there are a few kids who through no fault of their own have such excessive behavior that it disrupts everyone else? not saying to just throw that kid away, but maybe some private school time at home would be helpful until something else is figured out?

And that's fine if you want to do it that way...Just as long as the parents with the Special Needs child are given their  per pupil tax dollars back that they pay into the school district to educate that child. School districts will fight you tooth and nail to keep those dollars however. There are usually seperate classrooms set up for ASD/PDD kids when they can't be mainstreamed in most school districts. The problem is you don't know if a given child can be mainstreamed until you try it. When they can't be they are sent to a school in the district that  is equipped to handle their disability.

[Ballygrl]

And that's fine if you want to do it that way...Just as long as the parents with the Special Needs child are given their  per pupil tax dollars back that they pay into the school district to educate that child. School districts will fight you tooth and nail to keep those dollars however. There are usually seperate classrooms set up for ASD/PDD kids when they can't be mainstreamed in most school districts. The problem is you don't know if a given child can be mainstreamed until you try it. When they can't be they are sent to a school in the district that  is equipped to handle their disability.

That's a slippery slope argument though. I pay a lot in property taxes, I don't have any kids, and if I had kids they'd be in Catholic School, where's my rebate?

ETA: Of course you need to try a kid in school to see how they handle it, my comment was in reference to the case cited, at what point is that child a distraction to everyone else?

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

That's a slippery slope argument though. I pay a lot in property taxes, I don't have any kids, and if I had kids they'd be in Catholic School, where's my rebate?

ETA: Of course you need to try a kid in school to see how they handle it, my comment was in reference to the case cited, at what point is that child a distraction to everyone else?

Oh don't get me wrong...If you want to send your kids to parochial school i'm all for you being able to do that and getting your per pupil allowance to do it! The child is a distraction when he or she cannot be mainstreamed. Also. Do you honestly think that "everyone else" should never have to deal with distraction in school? I got news for ya Bally..Some of the "normal" kids most times cause more distraction than the Special Ed kids do and those "normal" kids have no excuse. I've worked in a school district for about 15 years and have 3 boys aged 12-18.It doesn't take much to distract any of them

[Skul]

DUmmies continue to bicker over foodstamps, or something.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002241392

[Ballygrl]

RockaFowler
2. Republicans are confusing

Why is it BAD when Michelle Obama talks about nutrition, but good when these guys force people to eat what they want them to eat?? Yes there are bad food choices made out there by SOME people, not all. We need more Jamie Olivers out there to teach people to cook nutritious food at reasonable prices.

It was Jamie Oliver's idea to do this:

Kids Reject L.A.’s New Healthy School Lunches, Compare Them To Dog Food

http://jezebel.com/5869211/kids-reject-las-new-healthy-school-lunches-compare-them-to-dog-food

Principals report massive waste, with unopened milk cartons and uneaten entrees being thrown away. Students are ditching lunch, and some say they're suffering from headaches, stomach pains and even anemia. At many campuses, an underground market for chips, candy, fast-food burgers and other taboo fare is thriving.

<snipped>

Andre Jahchan, a 16-year-old sophomore at Esteban Torres High School, said the food was "super good" at the summer tasting at L.A. Unified's central kitchen. But on campus, he said, the chicken pozole was watery, the vegetable tamale was burned and hard, and noodles were soggy.

<snipped>

[thundley4]

It was Jamie Oliver's idea to do this:

Kids Reject L.A.’s New Healthy School Lunches, Compare Them To Dog Food

http://jezebel.com/5869211/kids-reject-las-new-healthy-school-lunches-compare-them-to-dog-food

It takes a liberal to believe that it is better for the kids to throw away their "healthy" meals uneaten than to eat the meals that are less nutritious.

[delilahmused]

Oh don't get me wrong...If you want to send your kids to parochial school i'm all for you being able to do that and getting your per pupil allowance to do it! The child is a distraction when he or she cannot be mainstreamed. Also. Do you honestly think that "everyone else" should never have to deal with distraction in school? I got news for ya Bally..Some of the "normal" kids most times cause more distraction than the Special Ed kids do and those "normal" kids have no excuse. I've worked in a school district for about 15 years and have 3 boys aged 12-18.It doesn't take much to distract any of them

I've never seen a special needs child that was mainstreamed be a problem and I think it's one of the healthier things about public school when it comes to socialization...and not just for the SE kid. Public school separates students into little groups of "same". Real life finds people mixing with people of different ages, talents, interests, etc. One of the most rewarding experiences we had when we were homeschooling was a Latin class we started. Ages 8 to adult. There were about 20 of us.

Cindie

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

At many campuses, an underground market for chips, candy, fast-food burgers and other taboo fare is thriving.

Stop the tape. STOP THE TAPE!

We're told we have to fund school lunches because the parents can't afford it.

Apparently the little bastards can afford to feed themselves for cost plus black market mark-up.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

I've never seen a special needs child that was mainstreamed be a problem and I think it's one of the healthier things about public school when it comes to socialization...and not just for the SE kid. Public school separates students into little groups of "same". Real life finds people mixing with people of different ages, talents, interests, etc. One of the most rewarding experiences we had when we were homeschooling was a Latin class we started. Ages 8 to adult. There were about 20 of us.

Cindie

They usually aren't. The kids i really feel for are the classically autistic kids. They don't really do well in most cases in a normal classroom setting since their ability to communicate is very limited along with their limited ability to socially interact with others. They usually spend parts of their school day in and out of the classroom depending on behaviour and which subject they struggle with the most as they get special instruction(IEP) for said subject/subjects. Most also need to wear sound muffling headphones as well for certain activities that are particulary noisey(Autsies absolutely freak from loud noise) I always feel for these kids especially since they seem to lead a very lonely existance.It's really heartbreaking.

[DumbAss Tanker]

That's a slippery slope argument though. I pay a lot in property taxes, I don't have any kids, and if I had kids they'd be in Catholic School, where's my rebate?

ETA: Of course you need to try a kid in school to see how they handle it, my comment was in reference to the case cited, at what point is that child a distraction to everyone else?

It'd be fairly simple to address that, by allowing a rebate of school taxes paid only for those with kids in school to be educated and using the whole rebated amount for that purpose (Property taxes do pay for more than just schools, like police, fire, and city/county government functions).  Vouchers are another option, somewhat more of a still-taking-from-somebody-to-give-to-somebody-else approach though, since only a tiny number of parents would be paying school taxes that came within a dollar of whatever the voucher amount was.