Author Topic: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...  (Read 41963 times)

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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #100 on: April 22, 2008, 04:24:01 PM »
Okay... I'm lost. Exactly what is hypocritical about an atheist asking for mercy?
Mercy--like its counterpart Justice--does not exist.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #101 on: April 22, 2008, 04:25:24 PM »
Mercy--like its counterpart Justice--does not exist.

Mercy and Justice exist as abstract concepts. Religionists believe in God not in the way that athiests believe in mercy and justice, as abstract concepts, but as being something very real.

I will hi-five you for making a creative albeit false comparison.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 04:30:16 PM by The Night Owl »
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #102 on: April 22, 2008, 04:25:30 PM »
Okay... I'm lost. Exactly what is hypocritical about an atheist asking for mercy?
Mercy--like its counterpart Justice--does not exist.

They exist.  They just aren't measurable.  Like Love.  I mean if you are going to go down that road, let's take it to the end.

If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #103 on: April 22, 2008, 04:56:18 PM »
Quote
Science has a pretty solid theory on abiogensis bit it isn't relevant.
It has nothing observed or testable.

As evolution presupposes strictly naturalistic-materialistic (NM) causes to explain all variation and adaptation then, yes, it is relevant. You're asking for a mulligan at the first tee.

Now one might proffer an intelligent designer kick-started evolution, but then we veer off into the intent of the design.

Quote
Introduce me to the Intelligent Designer in RL and show how ID can be applied to a single practical problem.

I await your response to THIS one with baited breath.[/quote]
1. If you met the designer how would knowing it in any way interfere with the study of any branch of science including the origin of life. In fact the founders of science figure prominently from theistic religion.

2. You claim in your subsequent paragraph that justice and mercy are not unique to theists. Hm-m-m...

3. What could be considered proof? Even if giant flaming letters were to appear in the sky proclaiming "Yes, freedumb2003, I exist--God" it would require little effort to rationalize a hallucination or pyrotechnics or something.

It seems to me that the best method of inquiry is to ask: is there any phenomenon to which all observers will agree exists despite individual biases/perceptions/whatnot that cannot be explained in materialist means? Now some would call this looking for a miracle. It seems arrogant in the extreme that Deity--if it exists--should jump through hoops to entertain spoiled children with parlor tricks; as if miracles should be a matter of turning whine-into-water-into-wine.

Thus my reference to Justice and Mercy. These are immaterial--as opposed to irrelevant--because they cannot be observed, measured or formulated. I have always asked why races cannot slaughter or enslave with moral impunity, why the genetically handicapped cannot be excised from the breeding pool and all the things that make us cringe and at best I have received is a lame "social order enhances survivability."

Horse shit. If anything man's "ascension"--if non-existent standards can be presumed to exist--is predicated on the unintentional, pitiless, mindless and unending slaughter and suffering of innumerable beings before us and it assumes we deserve preservation/ascension for the future.

Again, horse shit. Evolution can just as easily and capriciously throw mankind back into the australio-pithicus era with a flick of its genetic wrist.

But oh how the atheists wail at the thought of their preious little world being mindless and cruel. I chuckle everytime I am reminded how many times the secular humanists rewrote their manifesto because it gave tyrants too much wiggle room for their tastes.

Quote
They exist.  They just aren't measurable.  Like Love.  I mean if you are going to go down that road, let's take it to the end.
Love doesn't exist either.

What you mistook for your mother's affection was a biochemical disposition to species preservation. It is nothing she conjured within herself it is merely the happenstance of countless molecular variations over time. Those creatures that had the genetic predisposition for offspring nurturing had a greater propensity for species survival and those who lacked it died out.

Your wife does not love you, she merely possesses a biologial unction to procreate.

Your children cling to you because it enhances their odds of producing a successive generation.

And sure as shit the universe doesn't love you because we are phlegm into fish into marsupials into men. It never intended it, is unaware of it and will never know or care about the outcome or offer recompense for the suffering and "injustice" born by its accidents...and that's the *******ed naturalistic fact.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline TheSarge

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #104 on: April 22, 2008, 06:06:39 PM »

There is a reason why it is still called "The Theory of Evolution".

It has yet to be proven as an uncontestable fact.

BINGO!!!
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #105 on: April 22, 2008, 06:09:59 PM »

Evolution is one of the best understood scientific theories in all of science.

Really?  Who determined that?  If it's the "best understood"...they why isn't it settled science?

Why still just a theory?


 
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It is understood better than the (competing) theories of gravity, astronomy, light and others.


Wow talk about injecting your own opinion as fact. 

Last time I checked...no one in the world is in doubt about gravity...astronomy...and light and the science behind it.

You should really leave that DarwinCentral echo chamber more often.

You guys get like the DUmmies and start to believe your BS cause that's all you ever hear.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #106 on: April 22, 2008, 06:11:48 PM »

There is a reason why it is still called "The Theory of Evolution".

It has yet to be proven as an uncontestable fact.

BINGO!!!

That is NOT a "BINGO."  It is a miss.  Again, you have to know what a Scientific Theory is. I have explained this repeatedly.  A Theory NEVER "grows up" into a fact.

Did you know there is a Theory of Gravity?

Why do Conservatives promote ignorance?

If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #107 on: April 22, 2008, 06:14:13 PM »

Evolution is one of the best understood scientific theories in all of science.

Really?  Who determined that?  If it's the "best understood"...they why isn't it settled science?

Why still just a theory?


 
Quote
It is understood better than the (competing) theories of gravity, astronomy, light and others.


Wow talk about injecting your own opinion as fact. 

Last time I checked...no one in the world is in doubt about gravity...astronomy...and light and the science behind it.

You should really leave that DarwinCentral echo chamber more often.

You guys get like the DUmmies and start to believe your BS cause that's all you ever hear.

You would be wrong on all your points.  Your ignorance (which I hope to contain) doesn't invalidate the facts.  The phenomenon of Gravity is observable.  What causes it is very much a theory.

Would you like to expound on your opinions on Nash's writings?  3VL vs 2VL?  I am sure there are a ton of subjects of which yo know nothing that you have opinions on.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline TheSarge

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #108 on: April 22, 2008, 06:15:41 PM »


That is NOT a "BINGO."  It is a miss.

Again...merely your opinion.


   
Quote
A Theory NEVER "grows up" into a fact.


Except for evolution and the folks whoo tell those of us that don't believe in it to "just accept it"?




Quote
Why do Conservatives promote ignorance?

Why do asshats like you purport to be Conservative?


« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 06:22:07 PM by TheSarge »
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline TheSarge

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #109 on: April 22, 2008, 06:21:32 PM »

You would be wrong on all your points.

Your opinion.

 
Quote
Your ignorance (which I hope to contain) doesn't invalidate the facts.

Your arrogance is repugnant.  Go take a shower hippie.


 
Quote
The phenomenon of Gravity is observable.  What causes it is very much a theory.

Where exactly is evolution "observable"?



Quote
Would you like to expound on your opinions on Nash's writings?  3VL vs 2VL?  I am sure there are a ton of subjects of which yo know nothing that you have opinions on.


And I would counter you with Genesis for starters and other writings and scientific research that supports the beliefs of the majority of the people in this country...which for you constitutes "are a ton of subjects of which yo know nothing that you have opinions on."
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #110 on: April 22, 2008, 06:24:43 PM »
Quote
Science has a pretty solid theory on abiogensis bit it isn't relevant.
It has nothing observed or testable.

As evolution presupposes strictly naturalistic-materialistic (NM) causes to explain all variation and adaptation then, yes, it is relevant. You're asking for a mulligan at the first tee.

Now one might proffer an intelligent designer kick-started evolution, but then we veer off into the intent of the design.

Again, your assertion don't make it so.  And if you put this onus on TToE you need to put it on all Life Sciences.  Once you explain the origin of gravity, you then are in a position to build the Theory of Gravity?

Sorry, science doesn't work that way.

Quote
Quote
Introduce me to the Intelligent Designer in RL and show how ID can be applied to a single practical problem.

I await your response to THIS one with baited breath.
1. If you met the designer how would knowing it in any way interfere with the study of any branch of science including the origin of life. In fact the founders of science figure prominently from theistic religion.[/quote]
That  makes no sense and has no historical basis.  The fact that modern science was created out of a theistic milieu doesn't mean that theism is somehow structurally a part of science.

Quote
2. You claim in your subsequent paragraph that justice and mercy are not unique to theists. Hm-m-m...
There is a non statement.

Quote
3. What could be considered proof? Even if giant flaming letters were to appear in the sky proclaiming "Yes, freedumb2003, I exist--God" it would require little effort to rationalize a hallucination or pyrotechnics or something.
No, just a repeatable, applicable physical phenomenon that can be measured.


Quote
It seems to me that the best method of inquiry is to ask: is there any phenomenon to which all observers will agree exists despite individual biases/perceptions/whatnot that cannot be explained in materialist means? Now some would call this looking for a miracle. It seems arrogant in the extreme that Deity--if it exists--should jump through hoops to entertain spoiled children with parlor tricks; as if miracles should be a matter of turning whine-into-water-into-wine.
Nice philosophy.  It has no applicability to science.

Quote
Thus my reference to Justice and Mercy. These are immaterial--as opposed to irrelevant--because they cannot be observed, measured or formulated. I have always asked why races cannot slaughter or enslave with moral impunity, why the genetically handicapped cannot be excised from the breeding pool and all the things that make us cringe and at best I have received is a lame "social order enhances survivability."

Horse shit. If anything man's "ascension"--if non-existent standards can be presumed to exist--is predicated on the unintentional, pitiless, mindless and unending slaughter and suffering of innumerable beings before us and it assumes we deserve preservation/ascension for the future.

Again, horse shit. Evolution can just as easily and capriciously throw mankind back into the australio-pithicus era with a flick of its genetic wrist.
[/qoute]
These are not measurable. You can wax and wane until the cows come home about your philosophy -- it is no more applicable to TToE than it is to mathematics, physics or any other branch of science.

Quote
But oh how the atheists wail at the thought of their preious little world being mindless and cruel. I chuckle everytime I am reminded how many times the secular humanists rewrote their manifesto because it gave tyrants too much wiggle room for their tastes.
Quote
They exist.  They just aren't measurable.  Like Love.  I mean if you are going to go down that road, let's take it to the end.
Love doesn't exist either.

What you mistook for your mother's affection was a biochemical disposition to species preservation. It is nothing she conjured within herself it is merely the happenstance of countless molecular variations over time. Those creatures that had the genetic predisposition for offspring nurturing had a greater propensity for species survival and those who lacked it died out.

Your wife does not love you, she merely possesses a biologial unction to procreate.

Your children cling to you because it enhances their odds of producing a successive generation.

And sure as shit the universe doesn't love you because we are phlegm into fish into marsupials into men. It never intended it, is unaware of it and will never know or care about the outcome or offer recompense for the suffering and "injustice" born by its accidents...and that's the *******ed naturalistic fact.

You misunderstand me -- on purpose.  Love and compassion and all the range of human emotions do exist but they can't be measured.  Knee jerk flinging of the term "naturalism" (whatever the heck that is) at people who understand science doesn't really advance the discussion and pretty much reeks of Luddism.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #111 on: April 22, 2008, 06:32:45 PM »

You would be wrong on all your points.

Your opinion.
My LEARNED opinion.  I can back up my claims.  Yours are just dust in the wind.


 
Quote
Quote
Your ignorance (which I hope to contain) doesn't invalidate the facts.

Your arrogance is repugnant.  Go take a shower hippie
.
I was never a hippie.  I have facts on my side.  I have millions of scientists and hundreds of years of science explored by the greatest minds this planet has ever seen on my side.  You have...?

You don't get to invent things and opine when you have zero knowledge and then get all pissy because you are exposed.


Quote
 
Quote
The phenomenon of Gravity is observable.  What causes it is very much a theory.

Where exactly is evolution "observable"?

Billions of fossils, many which directly point to transitional forms, observed speciation in both controlled and uncontrolled environments.  Almost all modern drugs exist because of the understanding of TToE.

Quote
Would you like to expound on your opinions on Nash's writings?  3VL vs 2VL?  I am sure there are a ton of subjects of which yo know nothing that you have opinions on.
Quote

And I would counter you with Genesis for starters and other writings and scientific research that supports the beliefs of the majority of the people in this country...which for you constitutes "are a ton of subjects of which yo know nothing that you have opinions on."

I know Genesis quite well. Including the fact that Genesis I and Genesis II don't agree.  I assume you have read Genesis in its original Arameic?  Have ypou reconciled the accounts in the Bible, the Torah and the qu'aran?

And I have not opined on Genesis.  You, OTOH, have opined a lot on TToE. To have a meaningful opinion, you need to have at least a little bit of knowledge.  I gather you have served our country.  How about I start telling you about military tactics, equipment, daily routine, etc., having never served a day? I would be out of place to do so. 

So what is it that allows people that can't even describe the basics of science pontificate on it? 
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline TheSarge

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #112 on: April 22, 2008, 06:33:13 PM »
Quote
People fear that which they don't understand; thus failing to understand their fears.

Seems to be a recurring theme with the evolutionists here.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2008, 06:34:16 PM »
Quote
People fear that which they don't understand; thus failing to understand their fears.

Seems to be a recurring theme with the evolutionists here.

Please tell me what I don't understand.  I have been quite clear and explicit on what you don't.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #114 on: April 22, 2008, 06:46:11 PM »
You misunderstand me -- on purpose.  Love and compassion and all the range of human emotions do exist but they can't be measured.  Knee jerk flinging of the term "naturalism" (whatever the heck that is) at people who understand science doesn't really advance the discussion and pretty much reeks of Luddism.
Yes, I come from a sect of internet faring Luddites.  ::)

Love is a biochemical reaction to propagate the species.

Anger is a biochemical reaction to a percieved threat to survival.

Angst is a biochemical reaction to to stimuli for which the brain is not readily prepared.

There is no Love, Anger, Angst or any other emotion in more "poetic" terms. The material cannot produce the immaterial. When you "feel" an emotion there is a biochemical reaction going on with the synapses, glands and lobes of the brain; endorphins, andreniline and the rest. A simple EEG or similar measure will settle this debate. If you claim the immaterial can produce a material reaction you might as well claim Homer was literally visited by the Muses.

All the more so with Justice and Mercy. They simply do not exist. At least "love" can be measured with scans and hormone profiles.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2008, 06:53:31 PM »
You misunderstand me -- on purpose.  Love and compassion and all the range of human emotions do exist but they can't be measured.  Knee jerk flinging of the term "naturalism" (whatever the heck that is) at people who understand science doesn't really advance the discussion and pretty much reeks of Luddism.
Yes, I come from a sect of internet faring Luddites.  ::)

Love is a biochemical reaction to propagate the species.

Anger is a biochemical reaction to a percieved threat to survival.

Angst is a biochemical reaction to to stimuli for which the brain is not readily prepared.

There is no Love, Anger, Angst or any other emotion in more "poetic" terms. The material cannot produce the immaterial. When you "feel" an emotion there is a biochemical reaction going on with the synapses, glands and lobes of the brain; endorphins, andreniline and the rest. A simple EEG or similar measure will settle this debate. If you claim the immaterial can produce a material reaction you might as well claim Homer was literally visited by the Muses.

All the more so with Justice and Mercy. They simply do not exist. At least "love" can be measured with scans and hormone profiles.

I don't agree with those, but if you think so, then my philosophical reaction is to support your world view.
 
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline TheSarge

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2008, 06:58:19 PM »


Please tell me what I don't understand.

Creationism for starters.


Quote
I have been quite clear and explicit on what you don't.


No what you've been and continue to be is an arrogant prig.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #117 on: April 22, 2008, 07:14:56 PM »
I don't agree with those, but if you think so, then my philosophical reaction is to support your world view.
Yes, well, at least science is on my side.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #118 on: April 22, 2008, 07:15:02 PM »


Please tell me what I don't understand.

Creationism for starters.
Quote
Earthmaker began to think about what he should do and in the end he began to cry, tears flowing from his eyes and falling down to where they became bright objects, seas formed from his tears.

Earthmaker thought, 'Anything I wish will happen just as I wish it'.

He wished for light - it happened.

He wished for earth and earth was formed.

Speaking for the first time, he said 'I shall make a being like myself' and he took some earth and made it just like himself.

He spoke to the creature, but it gave no answer. He looked closely, saw it had no mind and made a mind for it. But when he spoke to it, still it did not answer.

He made it a tongue and spoke to it, but still it did not answer.

He saw it had no soul, so he made it a soul, and talked to it ... and it very nearly said something, but failed to make itself understood.

So Earthmaker breathed into its mouth and spoke to it ... and it answered.

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The suns were the ten children of Di Jun, the god of the eastern sky. Each morning one of the suns would rise, climb into a chariot pulled by a dragon, and ride across the sky bringing light to the different parts of the world. In this way the earth got the right amount of sunshine, at the different seasons of the year.

But the ten suns grew bored. They wanted to work together and, one day, they woke early and rode across the sky together in their chariots.

The Earth hated it. It burnt. It cracked. The rivers ran dry. Animals and people grew weak with the heat. But the ten suns were enjoying themselves and would not listen to those who asked them to stop. They laughed and carried on riding around the sky.


Even their father, Di Jun, had no influence over them. To save the world he sent for the Divine Archer and gave him a magic bow ...

The Archer flew on the wind, down to the highest mountain he could see. He had nine arrows in his quiver and, one by one, he shot an arrow at each of the suns. As each arrow struck, the sun exploded and turned into a bird.

By the end of the day, only one sun remained. Next day he rose again and his sad tears filled the rivers and made the plants grow again. And that is the sun we see today.

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I have been quite clear and explicit on what you don't.


No what you've been and continue to be is an arrogant prig.
You opine on things you have no knowledge of and I am the arrogant one??????

You are just upset that you have been exposed.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #119 on: April 22, 2008, 07:18:17 PM »
I don't agree with those, but if you think so, then my philosophical reaction is to support your world view.
Yes, well, at least science is on my side.
I have yet to see any scientific definition of "Love" but things like physical attraction are, in fact, based in TToE.

But God gave us free will and brains and the ability to make our own decisions.  Thinking and feeling are just a few of His gifts. 
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #120 on: April 22, 2008, 07:21:51 PM »
I think this bears repeating at this point: those that believe in God as Creator base their faith on religious teachings. Those that believe in evolution base their belief on scientific theory. No one is saying that a person cannot hold those thoughts concurrently. But, you will often find these thoughts at odds with each other and that's fine. Like I said at the beginning of this thread, people feel strongly about these matters and no amount of convincing will change their mind. It is what it is. Thinking one or the other doesn't make you a "flat earther" or "liberal". We Conservatives come in all shapes and sizes remember?
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No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline Chris_

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #121 on: April 22, 2008, 07:27:33 PM »
I think this bears repeating at this point: those that believe in God as Creator base their faith on religious teachings. Those that believe in evolution base their belief on scientific theory. No one is saying that a person cannot hold those thoughts concurrently. But, you will often find these thoughts at odds with each other and that's fine. Like I said at the beginning of this thread, people feel strongly about these matters and no amount of convincing will change their mind. It is what it is. Thinking one or the other doesn't make you a "flat earther" or "liberal". We Conservatives come in all shapes and sizes remember?

There is no conflict.  The Bible teaches us how to live.  It is God speaking to us and being quite clear on what He expects of us, why he sent his Son down to die for us and why we are here.

Science gives us a mechanism for understanding His wondrous Universe and how to use it for the betterment of all of mankind.  He smiles as we find the next nugget he placed there -- in plain sight but requiring using the fabulous resource He gave us: creativity, curiosity, raw intelligence and a desire to grow.

They are different, if interlocking, domains.

Science without faith must be dreary, indeed.
 
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #122 on: April 22, 2008, 07:32:23 PM »
All the more so with Justice and Mercy. They simply do not exist. At least "love" can be measured with scans and hormone profiles.

The science of mathematics does not exist except as an abstract construct and yet it has been one of the most useful tools known to mankind. Similarly, justice and mercy do not exist except as abstract constructs and they have been some of the most useful tools known to mankind.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas

Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #123 on: April 22, 2008, 07:34:12 PM »
You may not see a conflict FD (neither do I) but some people do. And that's fine. Chrisitanity varies on the matter and you will find people who don't believe the science at all. And you will find people who accept the science even when it seemingly contradicts scripture. We (everyone not just us) get into trouble when we point fingers and say "You're dead wrong!!!". I was just trying to make peace. :-)
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No, my friends, there’s only one really progressive idea. And that is the idea of legally limiting the power of the government. That one genuinely liberal, genuinely progressive idea — the Why in 1776, the How in 1787 — is what needs to be conserved. We need to conserve that fundamentally liberal idea. That is why we are conservatives. --Bill Whittle

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Richard Nixon's speech writer makes a stupid movie...
« Reply #124 on: April 22, 2008, 07:37:03 PM »
I don't agree with those, but if you think so, then my philosophical reaction is to support your world view.
Yes, well, at least science is on my side.
I have yet to see any scientific definition of "Love" but things like physical attraction are, in fact, based in TToE.

But God gave us free will and brains and the ability to make our own decisions.  Thinking and feeling are just a few of His gifts. 
"Love" is a biochemical reaction. It's measurable.

That people feel love--or rather a biological unction to propagate--is as much a mystery as the opposable thumb: it just is, there is no intent behind it. You might as well be asking why the Roulette wheel landed on a particular space on a particular spin.

To argue the existence of God-breathed evolution strikes me as an ever-interesting conundrum.

Tell me: How many species did God design to die to make way for man?

Is there a "better man" yet to evolve?

Whence cometh this "freewill" when so many have died without it, to be saved or damned of their own volition?

Is salvation by mutation and adaptation?

I dare say I can find no sin in Conquistadors baptizing pagan infants only to dash their heads against the stones; survival of the fittest and all. Nature is quite blood-soaked. I'm curious as to where in the spiritual-evolutionary scale we can claim, "savage beast and thus no further".

I find the OT/NT traditions to be far more romantic: man perfect in nature (as opposed to moving "up"), fallen and inviting death into the world only to be saved by a God of Grace. If you're going to believe in a god believe in that one, but please don't bastardize evolutionary theory and its implications over some philosophical embarrassment you suffer from.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."