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Author Topic: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony  (Read 16290 times)

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Offline Rebel

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Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« on: June 03, 2011, 08:07:18 AM »

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A federal judge has ordered a Texas school district to prohibit public prayer at a high school graduation ceremony.

Chief U.S. District Judge Fred Biery’s order against the Medina Valley Independent School District also forbids students from using specific religious words including “prayer” and “amen.”

The ruling was in response to a lawsuit filed by Christa and Danny Schultz. Their son is among those scheduled to participate in Saturday’s graduation ceremony. The judge declared that the Schultz family and their son would “suffer irreparable harm” if anyone prayed at the ceremony.

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said the school district is in the process of appealing the ruling, and his office has agreed to file a brief in their support.

“Part of this goes to the very heart of the unraveling of moral values in this country,” Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News Radio, saying the judge wanted to turn school administrators into “speech police.”

“I’ve never seen such a restriction on speech issued by a court or the government,” Abbott told Fox News Radio. “It seems like a trampling of the First Amendment rather than protecting the First Amendment.”

---MORE---



A federal judge violating the US Constitution. Great.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 08:11:08 AM by Rebel »
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 08:16:51 AM »
But it hurts feelings, Reb. It hurts feelings.

 :whatever:

Seriously, isn't this a direct violation of the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" part of the First Amendment?
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Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 08:24:40 AM »
Seems this guy went to Texas LUTHERAN and Southern METHODIST.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Frederick_Biery_Jr.
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Offline olde north church

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 08:28:22 AM »
The judge can't prevent the locals from refusing to serve the offending family goods or services.  Truth be told, can't prevent the locals from refusing to sell goods and services to the judge and his family.  Ostracizing works wonders.  Quickly.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2011, 08:31:32 AM »
Quote from: olde north church on June 03, 2011, 08:28:22 AM
The judge can't prevent the locals from refusing to serve the offending family goods or services.  Truth be told, can't prevent the locals from refusing to sell goods and services to the judge and his family.  Ostracizing works wonders.  Quickly.

Constitutionally, he can't prohibit anyone from praying at a school function. The ONLY thing he can prohibit is a government mandate that prayer take place. Other than that, he's in violation of the Constitution.
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Offline CG6468

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2011, 08:33:36 AM »
Quote from: WinOne4TheGipper on June 03, 2011, 08:24:40 AM
Seems this guy went to Texas LUTHERAN and Southern METHODIST.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Frederick_Biery_Jr.

Yet another liberal Clintoon appointee.
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2011, 08:36:14 AM »
The valedictorian is Catholic, and she wants to join the appeal process.

If my daughter were valedictorian, and if she wanted to say those words, I'd support her 100 percent. I hope she finds the strength to say what she wants to say, and I'd be proud to bail her out if she's arrested for breaking that rule.


Rulings like this piss me off.
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Offline olde north church

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2011, 08:36:26 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on June 03, 2011, 08:31:32 AM
Constitutionally, he can't prohibit anyone from praying at a school function. The ONLY thing he can prohibit is a government mandate that prayer take place. Other than that, he's in violation of the Constitution.
That's true.  It still doesn't take away the fun potential of shunning them!
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Offline thelaughingman

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2011, 08:51:49 AM »
I have the perfect solution to all this.  The audience of families and friends need to organize themselves apart from the school and students and initiate the prayer just before the graduation ceremony begins.  What's the judge going to do?  Have the entire audience arrested and/or fined?
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Offline dandi

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2011, 09:01:39 AM »
Quote from: thelaughingman on June 03, 2011, 08:51:49 AM
I have the perfect solution to all this.  The audience of families and friends need to organize themselves apart from the school and students and initiate the prayer just before the graduation ceremony begins.  What's the judge going to do?  Have the entire audience arrested and/or fined?

I've got a better one:  Hand the little brat his diploma now and tell him that his (or his shithead parents) presence is not required at graduation.  That way, they won't be "offended" and have to suffer "irreparable harm".

Or, they could just give them the Louisiana treatment.

 :-)
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Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2011, 09:17:59 AM »
Quote from: wasp69 on June 03, 2011, 09:01:39 AM
I've got a better one:  Hand the little brat his diploma now and tell him that his (or his shithead parents) presence is not required at graduation.  That way, they won't be "offended" and have to suffer "irreparable harm".

Or, they could just give them the Louisiana treatment.

 :-)

Perhaps he shouldn't be getting a diploma if he's that clueless about the first amendment?
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2011, 09:55:48 AM »
Valedictorian joins in prayer fight
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Valedictorian-joins-in-prayer-fight-1407086.php

The Schultz family is 5th and 7th photo. I can imagine they are getting shunned right now. Perhaps they will get the Lori Drew treatment.  :-) :lmao:
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 10:06:17 AM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline rubliw

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2011, 01:17:20 PM »
This article didnt quite explain the ruling properly, and looks like its deliberately misleading...

Here's what the judge actually said in his ruling:

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“These students, and all other persons scheduled to speak during the graduation ceremony, shall be instructed not to present a prayer, to wit, they shall be instructed that they may not ask audience members to “stand,” “join in prayer,” or “bow their heads,” they may not end their remarks with “amen” or “in [a deity’s name] we pray,” and they shall not otherwise deliver a message that would commonly be understood to be a prayer, nor use the word “prayer” unless it is used in the student’s expression of the student’s personal belief, as opposed to encouraging others who may not believe in the concept of prayer to join in and believe the same concept.”

“The students may in stating their own personal beliefs speak through conduct such as kneeling to face Mecca, the wearing of a yarmulke or hijab or making the sign of the cross.”

 http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-san-antonio/controversy-over-prayer-at-texas-school-graduation-grows-medina-valley#ixzz1ODR9BgcH

So it appears like the students, even ones giving speeches, can say anything they want about their beliefs, just as long as they aren't attempting to lead others in prayers, and the like.... which seems reasonable, and of course, not at all what the fox article was clearly trying to lead you to believe.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 01:22:25 PM by rubliw »
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Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2011, 01:31:34 PM »
Quote from: rubliw on June 03, 2011, 01:17:20 PM
This article didnt quite explain the ruling properly, and looks like its deliberately misleading...

Here's what the judge actually said in his ruling:

So it appears like the students, even ones giving speeches, can say anything they want about their beliefs, just as long as they aren't attempting to lead others in prayers, and the like.... which seems reasonable, and of course, not at all what the fox article was clearly trying to lead you to believe.

Why again is restricting the free speech of students reasonable?  I can ask you to do anything.  It doesn't require that you comply.
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Offline rubliw

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2011, 01:39:58 PM »
Quote from: WinOne4TheGipper on June 03, 2011, 01:31:34 PM
Why again is restricting the free speech of students reasonable?  I can ask you to do anything.  It doesn't require that you comply.

If you're officiating a ceremony for a public institution, you simply aren't speaking for yourself.  The judge clearly said the speakers can say whatever they wish about their beliefs, as long as they arent doing so in a manner that makes it appear as if they are speaking for the institution or its members.  Again, seems fair.

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Offline Texacon

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2011, 02:06:31 PM »
I was wondering how these people had time for this kind of nonsense until I looked at the pictures of the family in question.

Who would like to lay bets the whole family lives off her disability or there was a huge law suit somewhere down the road.

People with jobs don't have time for stunts like this.

KC
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2011, 02:09:49 PM »
Quote from: rubliw on June 03, 2011, 01:17:20 PM
This article didnt quite explain the ruling properly, and looks like its deliberately misleading...

Here's what the judge actually said in his ruling:

So it appears like the students, even ones giving speeches, can say anything they want about their beliefs, just as long as they aren't attempting to lead others in prayers, and the like.... which seems reasonable, and of course, not at all what the fox article was clearly trying to lead you to believe.

You need to reread that.

Quote
and they shall not otherwise deliver a message that would commonly be understood to be a prayer, nor use the word “prayer” unless it is used in the student’s expression of the student’s personal belief, as opposed to encouraging others who may not believe in the concept of prayer to join in and believe the same concept. The students may in stating their own personal beliefs speak through conduct such as kneeling to face Mecca, the wearing of a yarmulke or hijab or making the sign of the cross.”

It's prohibiting a student from saying ANYTHING that would connote religion such as "amen", "God", etc. Many of these speeches are personal in nature and a prideful celebration of one's achievements. This is a slap in the face to the US Constitution and the judge should be removed immediately. Why is it you libs think all gays should be able to serve openly, yet Christians should get into the closet? Would you do the same shit in Dearborn to a bunch of Muslims? Do you think MLK was in violation of the Constitution for leading prayers on government property in D.C.? He was no more a representative of government than these students. I hope this little weirdo **** is ostracized for the rest of his life.

http://texaslegislativeupdate.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/mvisd-first-tro.pdf
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline rubliw

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2011, 02:17:49 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on June 03, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
You need to reread that.

It's prohibiting a student from saying ANYTHING that would connote religion such as "amen", "God", etc.....

I read it carefully...  the relevant part is this:  "...unless it is used in the student’s expression of the student’s personal belief, as opposed to encouraging others who may not believe in the concept...".

Meaning the students may say all those things, permitting they are in an appropriate context, and that context being they are speaking for themselves, not the institution or the people in the audience. 
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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2011, 02:27:58 PM »
Quote from: rubliw on June 03, 2011, 02:17:49 PM
I read it carefully...  the relevant part is this:  "...unless it is used in the student’s expression of the student’s personal belief, as opposed to encouraging others who may not believe in the concept...".

Meaning the students may say all those things, permitting they are in an appropriate context, and that context being they are speaking for themselves, not the institution or the people in the audience. 


Still now seeing how this is violating this troublemaker's rights. ...because it's not. He's not affected by it at all. Someone saying a prayer does not a damn thing to the fool. If he's afraid being made to feel uncomfortable from a prayer, ask him how he feels today due to his parents acting like a couple of little bitches.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Rebel

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2011, 05:56:17 PM »
Immaterial now as a federal court of appeals just smacked his dumbass decision down.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/03/texas-senator-blasts-judges-decision-to-forbid-public-prayer-at-high-school/
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2011, 06:25:26 PM »
Ah, wilbur's surfaced again.

Sorta like a blister that shows up when the work is done.  :whatever:
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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 09:27:50 PM »
I find it quite interesting that the typical Muslim prayer is just fine, but the typical Christian prayer is a problem. 
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2011, 10:02:53 PM »
Ghostwriting for the valedictorian,

"Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished visitors, fellow classmates, and most especially, My Almighty Lord in Heaven,

"Thank you for this opportunity to speak today. It has been a long road, and a tough road, but I knew that those with whom I worship in church on Sunday, when I kneel and pray to my Lord Jesus Christ would  understand completely when I say that only through His strength and power and love and compassion was I able to meet the many challenges that were placed in front of me. My classmates can relate as well, but as I'm not allowed to say that I prayed with some of you during those all-nighters that we pulled, well, we're just going to have to leave that to posterity.

"Our keynote speaker will no doubt say that our long journey is just beginning and no doubt he is correct. We have the most productive years of our lives in front of us and there is no question that we, as a class, will best exemplify the courage and dedication to our families and each other that was represented most clearly when I learned in last week's Sunday School that Jesus instructed us to love each other as we do ourselves.

"I am proud to stand in front of you today, not as a valedictorian, but as one of us who met the challenges, fought the fight, and paid the tuition. I am grateful for your support and friendship and I am appreciative of the guidance and counsel given me not just by my academic counselor but also through the will of my Lord Jesus Christ.

"I'm not allowed to preach about my Lord and my Creator and I shall not, in accordance with the dipshit judge who wants to stifle my speech. But I will tell you that only through His guidance and will was I able to persevere. Many, many times I wanted to go out and smoke some hash with some of you (you know who you are), do a little blow, and slam a few Toxic Nuclear Waste Dumps, that fab new drink that I love so much, but God pulled me back and parked my ass in that chair and instructed me to study.

"And I did so. Multiple times, to the point that when I looked up again from my books, three weeks had passed, I needed to pee really badly, and my breath was bad because I hadn't brushed my teeth in that long, but I had memorized the textbook, all referenced materials within, and my lecture notes. There was no way I was going to flunk that exam.

"I wouldn't be here if it weren't for God and His will for me.

"And that's the truth.

"Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished visitors, and fellow classmates, thank you for being the shining beacon in my life thus far. But make no mistake - you guys can't compare to that ray of a million concentrated suns, which is the power and direction of my Lord Jesus Christ."
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Offline seahorse513

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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2011, 10:31:51 PM »
hmmmmmmmm. I  wouldn't have a problem with a religious official(pastor, reverend, rabbi, priest, etc)leading an audience at a graduation ceremony with a general benediction. However, a student saying that her religous beliefs played a big part in her educational achievements is fine as well. If the family wants to have a prayer at her personal graduation party afterwards is fine too. But a student leading prayer at the actual ceremony, yeah i might have a problem with that....That's my personal opinion....
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Re: Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2011, 11:39:27 PM »
Quote from: seahorse513 on June 03, 2011, 10:31:51 PM
But a student leading prayer at the actual ceremony, yeah i might have a problem with that....That's my personal opinion....

Why? Unless the students are REQUIRED to participate, I can see how it would be unconstitutionality, but if they're not, what the hell about that offends you?
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site
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