Affirmative Action and my other 'racist' thoughts

[thundley4]

Spelling is not grammar . I suck at grammar and spelling, but intelligento is a college edmumacated kid, he should know better.

[Chris_]

I know, I just wanted an excuse to use that smiley.

[Duke Nukum]

As for my thoughts on racism.  Racism is obviously very much prevalent in the U.S. predominantly in the South.  

Listening to Mark Levin tonight, I'm convinced that racism in America is most prevalent on MSLSD.

[docstew]

meant to add- "and treating them differently because of these judgments."

But if that still is not a complete enough definition for you, how would you define racism?

The DOD definition of racism is holding one racial or ethnic group to be inferior to another or your own, just like you're doing.  Closely related is paternalism, where someone "takes care" of another by giving them easier jobs or lowered standards for advancement.  How many of these boxes can you check off for yourself?

[Karin]

I'm more familiar with workplace AA than academia.  I worked for a large corporation once, of the size that has to report on their stats.  At HQ, I remember one black guy got a nice VP Marketing job, nice office, nice salary.  He ended up quitting because it was just too boring, there was no "stretch" assignments or hard work that would have really let him shine. 
Lowered expectations don't do anybody any favors. 

In the same building, on my staff, was a nightmare.  A black woman with a chip on her shoulder like you wouldn't believe.  Always running to HR with accusations of racism.  As you know, this cannot be tolerated in corporate America.  A co-worker corrected her own visiting son's grammar, the black lady thought this correction was an affront to her African American culture.  Off to HR she went.  Every day was walking on eggshells. 

That experience scarred me, I'll admit it.  One wrong innocuous move, and I could be fired.  Performance review?  Request to not talk on the phone with personal calls so much?  Ask how a report was coming along?  Gaah!  This behavior of hers did not help her fellow black people in the labor market. 

[dandi]

The DOD definition of racism is holding one racial or ethnic group to be inferior to another or your own, just like you're doing.  Closely related is paternalism, where someone "takes care" of another by giving them easier jobs or lowered standards for advancement.  How many of these boxes can you check off for yourself?

Being an Ivy League liberal?  Probably all of them.

[Intelligento]

The DOD definition of racism is holding one racial or ethnic group to be inferior to another or your own, just like you're doing.  Closely related is paternalism, where someone "takes care" of another by giving them easier jobs or lowered standards for advancement.  How many of these boxes can you check off for yourself?

   When did I ever say that one ethnic group was inferior to my own?  The African American students at the school I attended were, as a whole, less academically qualified than the white/Asian students.  This also applied to all other races, as a whole, that were helped in due to affirmative action. They performed poorly in easy classes, and they avoided taking difficult upper-level courses, which explains why my senior year math/econ/science courses were predominantly Asian/Caucasian, despite the school being about 30% Black/Hispanic/ect.   I'm not sure what you have to argue?

[dandi]

First off, nothing wrong with a liberal arts school.  I'm no longer even at Harvard so the point is moot, but a liberal arts education is certainly not a bad thing

You know what, you are absolutely right.  In retrospect, most Liberal Arts degree holders perform many important roles in our society:  "Paper or plastic?"; "Welcome to Hooters!"; "Would you care to super-size that?"; "Would you like the receipt in the bag?"; "Wet spill, aisle 5?  On my way!"; "Can I interest you in some dessert?"; "Would you like a lap dance?"; "More coffee and make it ****in' snappy?  Yes, Senator, right away!"

 

if you were not able to receive one yourself that is no reason to go whining about the uselessness of it

 

Wait a minute, wait a minute, hold on....

 

Okay, *whew*, better now.

I had better things to do with my time than pursue a Liberal Arts degree.

Not sure what kind of "return" for my money you are speaking of, but in terms of a monetary return I've done more than ok with my degree.

Good for you.  As long as there is a need for Ivy League theorists, you have a paycheck.  Hope you have something to fall back upon if the requirement goes away.

As for my identification of my friends by their race, was it not clear that the point of my argument was to point out that the friends (or floormates) of mine who were of color were not as academically qualified as those not of color.  Is this saying they are less academically qualified because of their race? No, it is an "and" statement.  They are not "segmented by their heritages."  They are segmented by their intellectual prowess, which, in my experience, also separated them out into their own heritages by default.  Later on I mentioned the same thing (which you seem to have missed).  A number of the African-American students at Harvard were disrespectful.  Is this saying that they are disrespectful because they are black? Absolutely not, it is one thing, and many of them happened to share a similar heritage.

Yes, "Intelligento", I understood completely what you were trying to do.  You were trying to make sure everyone could see your liberal bona fides while at the same time exercise some common sense as it applies to the idiotic paternalism that is affirmative action.  However, in your rush to make sure we all understood that you were most certainly not a racist while compartmentalizing the Black, Hispanic, White, and Asian kids, you completely forgot women, the handicapped, American Indians, and many others.  If you are going to make a case that affirmative action does not work in reality, make sure you complete the loop so to speak.

You, it seems, missed what I was saying.  While you are seeing the failure of these things, be honest with yourself and with us.  Observing race/gender/disability/whatever preference as a failure does not make you a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe/xenophobe/etc, it makes you a realist and honest; no qualifiers of no "guilt" are necessary.  We should be graded by our performance without any type of "enhancer" to the final score and what you are seeing is the first of many examples where liberal ideology fails it's first contact with reality.

Speak plainly, "Intelligento", and honestly in everything you do.  Strong people will respect you for your truthfulness while the weak will despise you for not being a true believer.  Personally, I would rather be hated for being honest than loved for a lie.

[dandi]

.  Because one person defining a term and printing it in a textbook is better than yourself defining the same one.

Definitions of words are accepted standards.  As standards, they are the rule.  Anyone thinking they own the language beyond that is a fool and should not be listened to.

[Intelligento]

You know what, you are absolutely right.  In retrospect, most Liberal Arts degree holders perform many important roles in our society:  "Paper or plastic?"; "Welcome to Hooters!"; "Would you care to super-size that?"; "Would you like the receipt in the bag?"; "Wet spill, aisle 5?  On my way!"; "Can I interest you in some dessert?"; "Would you like a lap dance?"; "More coffee and make it ****in' snappy?  Yes, Senator, right away!"

 

 

Wait a minute, wait a minute, hold on....

 

Okay, *whew*, better now.

I had better things to do with my time than pursue a Liberal Arts degree.

Good for you.  As long as there is a need for Ivy League theorists, you have a paycheck.  Hope you have something to fall back upon if the requirement goes away.

Yes, "Intelligento", I understood completely what you were trying to do.  You were trying to make sure everyone could see your liberal bona fides while at the same time exercise some common sense as it applies to the idiotic paternalism that is affirmative action.  However, in your rush to make sure we all understood that you were most certainly not a racist while compartmentalizing the Black, Hispanic, White, and Asian kids, you completely forgot women, the handicapped, American Indians, and many others.  If you are going to make a case that affirmative action does not work in reality, make sure you complete the loop so to speak.

You, it seems, missed what I was saying.  While you are seeing the failure of these things, be honest with yourself and with us.  Observing race/gender/disability/whatever preference as a failure does not make you a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe/xenophobe/etc, it makes you a realist and honest; no qualifiers of no "guilt" are necessary.  We should be graded by our performance without any type of "enhancer" to the final score and what you are seeing is the first of many examples where liberal ideology fails it's first contact with reality.

Speak plainly, "Intelligento", and honestly in everything you do.  Strong people will respect you for your truthfulness while the weak will despise you for not being a true believer.  Personally, I would rather be hated for being honest than loved for a lie.

I think you are out of your element here bucko. I'm not understanding your calling me out for "leaving out American-Indians."  Unfortunately, even with affirmative action they make up <1% of the student body at my university, and I've never had the chance to meet or interact with any of the few that are enrolled here; the same goes for handicapped students of which there are very few. Once again, sorry for "leaving them out." The degree to which affirmative action helps women is incredibly small at my school, and I was making an observation about my experience, so the need to include them was non-existent.  Not sure why you keep insulting a liberal arts degree. The jobs you joked about are those of individuals with no degree- though you seem to believe that they are one in the same. I'd be interested to know what you are doing in your life and where you attended school, since it is so much better than all of the Ivies and other liberal arts schools.  My guess is you simply didn't have the SAT scores to get you into one of those institutions and only later decided "well hell, they suck anyways." Because I can truly say I haven't known a single high school kid who, if money and grades/academics provided, had the opportunity to study at Harvard, would turn it down because "liberal arts sucks and gets you nowhere."  So keep going with your aimless ranting, chief, it isn't getting you anywhere either.  The need for "Ivy Leage theorists" as you call them, is not going anywhere soon- not in this lifetime or the next, so keep dreaming.

And I agree with your second to last paragraph.  

[Wineslob]

I'd also ask you to please stop deviating from the core of my post which was centered around affirmative action. 

Affirmative Action in and of itself is racist.

Think about it.

[Lacarnut]

The last 3 Presidents went to Harvard and have got this country so ****ed up that it will take an outsider who has not gone to a LIBERAL Ivy League school to dig us out of the economic mess we are in. BTW, who gives a crap what school you went to. It is what you do when you get out of school that is important. I know a lot of kids that would NOT want to go to Harvard. So, bucko, your statement fall flat.

I am a retired civil service worker and I can tell you I experienced the wrath of affirmative action for over 20 years. Young uns like you do not understand that women benefited in much greater numbers than blacks did. When you gain some more experience in the real world outside of academia let us adults in on it. As far as racism goes, there is more of it in your beloved Boston than most town across the country.

[Intelligento]

The last 3 Presidents went to Harvard and have got this country so ****ed up that it will take an outsider who has not gone to a LIBERAL Ivy League school to dig us out of the economic mess we are in. BTW, who gives a crap what school you went to. It is what you do when you get out of school that is important. I know a lot of kids that would NOT want to go to Harvard. So, bucko, your statement fall flat.

I am a retired civil service worker and I can tell you I experienced the wrath of affirmative action for over 20 years. Young uns like you do not understand that women benefited in much greater numbers than blacks did. When you gain some more experience in the real world outside of academia let us adults in on it. As far as racism goes, there is more of it in your beloved Boston than most town across the country.

Stopped reading after this

[Rebel]

I think you are out of your element here bucko. I'm not understanding your calling me out for "leaving out American-Indians."  Unfortunately, even with affirmative action they make up <1% of the student body at my university, and I've never had the chance to meet or interact with any of the few that are enrolled here; the same goes for handicapped students of which there are very few. Once again, sorry for "leaving them out." The degree to which affirmative action helps women is incredibly small at my school, and I was making an observation about my experience, so the need to include them was non-existent.  Not sure why you keep insulting a liberal arts degree. The jobs you joked about are those of individuals with no degree- though you seem to believe that they are one in the same. I'd be interested to know what you are doing in your life and where you attended school, since it is so much better than all of the Ivies and other liberal arts schools.  My guess is you simply didn't have the SAT scores to get you into one of those institutions and only later decided "well hell, they suck anyways." Because I can truly say I haven't known a single high school kid who, if money and grades/academics provided, had the opportunity to study at Harvard, would turn it down because "liberal arts sucks and gets you nowhere."  So keep going with your aimless ranting, chief, it isn't getting you anywhere either.  The need for "Ivy Leage theorists" as you call them, is not going anywhere soon- not in this lifetime or the next, so keep dreaming.

And I agree with your second to last paragraph.  

Sarcasm seems to be lost on you because Wasp injected a ton of it in his post. I guess I'll have to paraphrase for the Ivy Leagers hanging around:

"Look you don't have to start all the 'I have a black friend, so I'm not a racist, but, affirmative action is bullshit and detrimental to the society as a whole, as well as being condescending and belittling the people you actually think you're trying to help'. Just say 'AA is bullshit and here's why'. Trying to qualify it only conflates the issue and drives a discussion 1000 different directions from your intended target. While making it, if someone just comes straight out and screams 'racism', they're clearly not up to the challenge of discussing the topic to begin with and only possess the ability to make excuses".

[Rebel]

Stopped reading after this

One mistake and an entire argument might as well be discarded? Wow. Must be cold up on that Ivory Tower. What altitude is your penthouse at? Just wondering. You subtract about 4 degrees for every thousand feet you ascend.

[Lacarnut]

Stopped reading after this

Aww. An elitist snob like Junior does not take criticism well. Plus, you lie.

[Intelligento]

Aww. An elitist snob like Junior does not take criticism well. Plus, you lie.

No stopped reading because the last 3 presidents haven't gone to Harvard....

If the first sentence in a line of criticism is simply not true, why bother reading the rest. Not good for credibility in any sense of the word. To address Rebel- yes a pretty outright mistake in the first line of an argument is enough to keep me from reading the rest.  This is not some "opinion I disagree with." It is a fact that one can confirm in 15 seconds using the internet. When I have to grade argumentative papers if someone presents a fact in their opening paragraph (never seen it in the opening line), I continue grading because I have to, but it takes away credibility from the entire rest of the paper.

That is not to mention that almost all the U.S. Presidents went to a liberal arts school so.... see Hayes, Nixon, Garfield, Reagan, Coolidge and many others who went to much more "liberal artsy" schools than Harvard..

[Rebel]

If the first sentence in a line of criticism is simply not true, why bother reading the rest.

Ahh, I know this little game.

Lacarnut's first sentence was not true.

Lacarnut wrote the rest of the post.

Therefore, the rest of the post must not be true. 

You'll miss a whole helluva lot of education that way. The ability to comprehend an entire body of text, bullshit and all, is part of the learning process.

[Intelligento]

Ahh, I know this little game.

Lacarnut's first sentence was not true.

Lacarnut wrote the rest of the post.

Therefore, the rest of the post must not be true. 

You'll miss a whole helluva lot of education that way. The ability to comprehend an entire body of text, bullshit and all, is part of the learning process.

No no, you missed the point.  The rest of the post could be entirely true, but if the first line is blatantly wrong it deters from the entirety of the argument.

[Rebel]

No no, you missed the point.  The rest of the post could be entirely true, but if the first line is blatantly wrong it deters from the entirety of the argument.

Sounds like a partisan's excuse for not reading a news source known for having a few opposing views.

[Intelligento]

Sounds like a partisan's excuse for not reading a news source known for having a few opposing views.

Your opinion.  Like I said, it is the same way when I grade papers here, though then I am obligated to continue reading.  If you are going to post a fact make sure it is true.

[Rebel]

Your opinion.  Like I said, it is the same way when I grade papers here, though then I am obligated to continue reading.  If you are going to post a fact make sure it is true.

You contradicting yourself a bit, aren't you? Dismissing Lacarnut's entire post after seeing one error leads one to believe that you stop grading a paper after you see the first error. How are they not the same?

[Intelligento]

You contradicting yourself a bit, aren't you? Dismissing Lacarnut's entire post after seeing one error leads one to believe that you stop grading a paper after you see the first error. How are they not the same?

Because I am paid to grade the full paper.  I have no obligation to read the rest of a post.

[Rebel]

Because I am paid to grade the full paper.  I have no obligation to read the rest of a post.

Beneath you? Afterall, it is your topic.

[Intelligento]

Beneath you? Afterall, it is your topic.

But completely straying from my topic.