Obama never misses opportunity to miss opportunity, RE: UBLs corpse

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

The United States is treating Osama bin Laden's body in "accordance with Islamic practice," a White House official says.

...

Asked how bin Laden's body will be treated, a senior administration official told reporters on a conference call that "we are ensuring that is handled in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition."

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0511/bin_ladens_body_c2fb2ffb-5240-40c6-b106-956bf2ebff6a.html

OK, I get *why* he did it: he's trying to signal to the Islamic world we are at war with acts, not creeds.

BUT...

1) the acts are born from that creed

2) the audience he thinks exists--the moderate Muslim street--does not exist

3) moderate Muslims, when they do exist, live in the shadows because they are oppressed

4) Obama just told them he's more concerned with the perceptions of their oppressors than practical realities

5) Obama apparently has learned nothing about how the US street views deference to Islam, i.e. the Ground Zero mosque.

If you're entitled to a victory lap don't do it waving a Fat Che's Little Brothert Blue Ribbon and pissing out the window while flipping off the audience in stands.

Obama will get a 7-point bump in job approval and will lose 4 of those points once this news gets around.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Economics, good or bad, will supersede any bump within a month, tops.  It was the right decision, doing anything that would be regarded as desecration or mistreatment of the corpse would just turn into a recruiting tool to help the ****ers rebuild their organization.

This is one of those times, like telling off the boss when you leave, when the thing that feels really good in the short run would turn out to be a really bad idea in the long run. 

[Ballygrl]

Economics, good or bad, will supersede any bump within a month, tops.  It was the right decision, doing anything that would be regarded as desecration or mistreatment of the corpse would just turn into a recruiting tool to help the ****ers rebuild their organization.

This is one of those times, like telling off the boss when you leave, when the thing that feels really good in the short run would turn out to be a really bad idea in the long run.

Yep! people who are unemployed or people paying high gas prices aren't going to say "well we got Osama on his watch so he deserves to be re-elected".

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

It was the right decision, doing anything that would be regarded as desecration or mistreatment of the corpse would just turn into a recruiting tool to help the ****ers rebuild their organization.

meh

The WH should have said nothing except, "He was dropped in the ocean."

If any reporter asked, "Was he buried according to Muslim tradition?" the reply should be, "Do you consider UBL to be representative of Islam?"

As for the little ****-nuts running to the nearest jihad recruiting station they will be plied with tales of US desecration of the body.  They will be told the Jews had surgeons on hand to harvest the organs and sell them.

No liberal will be present to say, "No! Wait! President Obama had the body treated with dignity!" and the would-be jihadist will not say, "Oh wait!  I remember reading at politico..."

They will use whatever excuse they want to join, real or imagined or fabricated.

[Bertram]

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0511/bin_ladens_body_c2fb2ffb-5240-40c6-b106-956bf2ebff6a.html

OK, I get *why* he did it: he's trying to signal to the Islamic world we are at war with acts, not creeds.

BUT...

1) the acts are born from that creed

2) the audience he thinks exists--the moderate Muslim street--does not exist

3) moderate Muslims, when they do exist, live in the shadows because they are oppressed

4) Obama just told them he's more concerned with the perceptions of their oppressors than practical realities

5) Obama apparently has learned nothing about how the US street views deference to Islam, i.e. the Ground Zero mosque.

If you're entitled to a victory lap don't do it waving a Fat Che's Little Brothert Blue Ribbon and pissing out the window while flipping off the audience in stands.

Obama will get a 7-point bump in job approval and will lose 4 of those points once this news gets around.

Parading body around risks comeing off as racist or a phsyco. Not something you want to do.
He didn't really miss and opertunity, there's still going to be people claiming that we didn't kill him.

[Eupher]

Snugs, I don't quite get your contention that the Muslim practice of burying the dead within 24 hours is born of terrorist acts, or to quote you precisely, "the acts [terrorism] are born of that creed". Care to expand on that? Do I understand you properly?

Far more realistic is the Muslim practice or tradition of not embalming the body, which, oddly enough is similar to the Jewish practice. Blood is considered a part of the body, so it is buried with the body and not flushed out with an embalming process. Burying the body within 24 hours keeps rotting from being a real smelly problem.

I completely agree, however, that Obama's overriding concern has been and continues to be legitimizing and fellating Islam.

[FiddyBeowulf]

Aren't Muslim dead supposed to be buried pointed towards Mecca (or something like that). Doesn't tossing him into the ocean prevent that?

[IassaFTots]

Aren't Muslim dead supposed to be buried pointed towards Mecca (or something like that). Doesn't tossing him into the ocean prevent that?

I thought the same thing as well. 

[DumbAss Tanker]

Aren't Muslim dead supposed to be buried pointed towards Mecca (or something like that). Doesn't tossing him into the ocean prevent that?

Well, now, how he lands on the bottom is all in Allah's hands, innit?

 

[JohnnyReb]

Well, now, how he lands on the bottom is all in Allah's hands, innit?

 

I hope they weighted the bag so that he's standing on his head.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Parading body around risks comeing off as racist or a phsyco. Not something you want to do.
He didn't really miss and opertunity, there's still going to be people claiming that we didn't kill him.

I absolutely agree about parading the body. We don't need to hang trophies.

I'm merely suggesting we should have taken whatever forensic evidence we deemed fitting and tossed him off the fantail.

No ceremony (there was not one as far as I've read). No observance of tradition. Nothing. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

If anyone asks if there was an observance we should say, "Yes, we strictly adhered to the precepts of pragmatism."

Snugs, I don't quite get your contention that the Muslim practice of burying the dead within 24 hours is born of terrorist acts, or to quote you precisely, "the acts [terrorism] are born of that creed". Care to expand on that? Do I understand you properly?

Far more realistic is the Muslim practice or tradition of not embalming the body, which, oddly enough is similar to the Jewish practice. Blood is considered a part of the body, so it is buried with the body and not flushed out with an embalming process. Burying the body within 24 hours keeps rotting from being a real smelly problem.

I completely agree, however, that Obama's overriding concern has been and continues to be legitimizing and fellating Islam.

If (I caution: IF) Obama gave a directive to have the body buried within 24 hours per Islamic tradition he screwed up. His orders should have been, "Do whatever you need to do to gain whatever evidence is available. Be thorough. Be precise. Then dispose of the body as convenient in the most expedient manner available at the time."

IOW practical matters should take precedence, not operating under some clock counting down inside the head of a now-deceased homicidal zealot.

As for my "acts born of that creed" comment:

You may have heard it said that declaring war on terrorism after 9/11 would be akin to declaring war on torpedo bombers after Pearl Harbor. Obama--and his predecessor--have made it policy to curry favor with the Islamic street. They operate under the idea--not without its arguable merits--that we must convince the average Muslim that this is not a war on their culture.

But their culture is precisely the issue we are confronting. It is a creed born of terror and blood. Even the verses that claim Jews and Christians are the brothers of Muslims are considered abrogated by later verses. We cannot be at peace with that creed because that creed will not be at peace with us.

Even "moderate Muslims" is just code-speak for "westernized" which in turn is secularized code-speak for "Judeo-Christian"

What we are fighting is Islam. If we don't say as much we should do so only because it is easier to eat the elephant one bite at a time as opposed to having 1,000,000,000 plus people launch into a sudden war. But we delude ourselves if we pretend otherwise.

[Eupher]

As for my "acts born of that creed" comment:

You may have heard it said that declaring war on terrorism after 9/11 would be akin to declaring war on torpedo bombers after Pearl Harbor. Obama--and his predecessor--have made it policy to curry favor with the Islamic street. They operate under the idea--not without its arguable merits--that we must convince the average Muslim that this is not a war on their culture.

But their culture is precisely the issue we are confronting. It is a creed born of terror and blood. Even the verses that claim Jews and Christians are the brothers of Muslims are considered abrogated by later verses. We cannot be at peace with that creed because that creed will not be at peace with us.

Even "moderate Muslims" is just code-speak for "westernized" which in turn is secularized code-speak for "Judeo-Christian"

What we are fighting is Islam. If we don't say as much we should do so only because it is easier to eat the elephant one bite at a time as opposed to having 1,000,000,000 plus people launch into a sudden war. But we delude ourselves if we pretend otherwise.

Ah, gotcha.

But here, your pragmatism bogs down -- and understand that I'm approaching your point from the devil's advocate's perspective.

Islam's tradition of burial within 24 hours is just that -- a tradition. I've already illustrated how similar it is to the Jewish tradition. That tradition is itself born of pragmatism due to the stinky problem that remains in hanging on and fawning over a corpse longer than a day.

How does that equate to the rest of Islam? The killing, the rape, the slaughter, the insanity that Mohammed perpetuated? The insistence that nonbelievers either must adopt Islam or die?

Looks to me like you're mixing apples and oranges.

What does it cost the U.S., in terms of credibility and "respect" for Islam in acknowledging and stating for the record that the body was handled in accordance with Islamic tradition...

...even if that's a lie? That the body was dumped off the fantail in just the way you described?

In other words, do you actually believe the Oministration's statements on how the body was handled?

I think most people who have not engaged the muzzies in battle or who might be expected to don the uniform recognize that "moderate muzzies" are those that are either on the fence with their own religion, or otherwise aren't terribly dogmatic about it. I'd wager there are a few million of those types of muzzies.....

...of the 1.57 billion or so there are in the world.
 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

All excellent points and 100% valid.

Of course you semi-noted my earlier-stated counterpoint: what Oministration says won't buy us 1 scintilla of sympathy on the Islamic street.

So to which audience is he playing?

The audience he thinks he's performing for does not exist.

The audience that will hear him and believe him will say, "Why the **** do we care?"

The professional left is mad Obama used the military to perpetuate Bush's illegal war against Islamic baby seals in the rain forest who gave out free health care...or something.

I'm not saying this as an Obama critic but only from the aspect of PR and messaging.

Personally, I'm glad--I give an enthusiastic thumbs-up--to Obama for so decisively green lighting the operation. I've read reports that he decided against a missile strike because he wanted a body for evidence.

Boo-****ing-yah!

Good call Mr. CinC. It sounds like you matured a little but why did you have to shit in the pudding at the end? Sometimes in the middle of a rousing success the best thing to do is to know when to stop talking.

[Eupher]

All excellent points and 100% valid.

Of course you semi-noted my earlier-stated counterpoint: what Oministration says won't buy us 1 scintilla of sympathy on the Islamic street.

So to which audience is he playing?

The audience he thinks he's performing for does not exist.

Well, I might suggest that he's playing to a largely AMERICAN audience. The one that is fair-minded, even-handed, and fundamentally western in thought, word, and deed.

The audience that will hear him and believe him will say, "Why the **** do we care?"

The professional left is mad Obama used the military to perpetuate Bush's illegal war against Islamic baby seals in the rain forest who gave out free health care...or something.

I'm not saying this as an Obama critic but only from the aspect of PR and messaging.

Personally, I'm glad--I give an enthusiastic thumbs-up--to Obama for so decisively green lighting the operation. I've read reports that he decided against a missile strike because he wanted a body for evidence.

Boo-****ing-yah!

Good call Mr. CinC. It sounds like you matured a little but why did you have to shit in the pudding at the end? Sometimes in the middle of a rousing success the best thing to do is to know when to stop talking.

Yeah, I'm actually a little stunned. Barry approved the op on Friday, played golf a bit on Sunday and got back to the WH in time for the "mission complete" report.

If nothing else, Barry exercises terrific time management skills. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

...Barry approved the op on Friday, played golf a bit on Sunday and got back to the WH in time for the "mission complete" report.

If nothing else, Barry exercises terrific time management skills. 

I suppose if you have a big op getting ready to go down the best advice from the brass is, "Continue with your usual routine. Pretend nothing special is going on."

Of course Obama spent his entire presidency pretending nothing special is going on.

Apparently I'm not alone in my thoughts within the OP:

...

When John Dillinger was finally taken down, his body was put on public display and wound up being a grotesque spectacle which brought a lot of criticism on the government.

With bin Laden the situation was even more complicated. Many of Obama’s statements last night seemed designed to reinforce the fact that we were not “at war with Islam” but hunting a killer. The use of the phrase “in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition” is telling, likely intended as an attempt not to further inflame the Muslim world on the heels of this historic event by violating their funeral practices. But was it worth the effort?

On the one hand, there are places which will be (and already are) enraged over the killing and no amount of “respect” for the remains is going to mollify them. Back at home, we’re already seeing reactions from people who find this treatment an insult to the victims.

Does Obama believe this treatment is going to turn crazy Muslims into decent human beings? Does he think decent Muslims will be upset that this friggin madman isn’t treated with respect?

Obama is a jerk.

But in the end, nothing was going to pacify anyone at either extreme of that particular scale I suppose. So, do we need to have the body as a trophy of war and put it on display? Reports indicate he was shot in the eye, so it’s probably a pretty gruesome sight. If we have DNA evidence and enough credible military and government witnesses I suppose that will have to be enough.

And how about photographs? ABC is reporting that the White House has the pictures, but is still debating whether or not to release them.

What does the Hot Air community have to say? Should the body have been brought back for public confirmation of bin Laden’s death? What should have been done?

UPDATE: Predictably, some Muslim clerics have already weighed in saying that the burial at sea wasn’t good enough.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/02/disposing-of-obls-body/

[Eupher]

It's water under the bridge. Barry will be criticized no matter what he decided to do about disposal of the corpse. Thing is, he's too thin-skinned to understand that and narcissistic enough to have that criticism bother him.

None of that changes the outcome, however.

UBL is fish food and while al Qaida won't collapse without UBL at the helm, the psychological ramifications of the brazenness of the op and the execution of it make it a very successful outcome indeed.

It's just too bad that Barry will get the credit, but I'm hopeful that the forgetfulness of the American people will win the day for the next presidential election and he'll be tossed out on his ass.

[JohnnyReb]

It's water under the bridge. Barry will be criticized no matter what he decided to do about disposal of the corpse. Thing is, he's too thin-skinned to understand that and narcissistic enough to have that criticism bother him.

None of that changes the outcome, however.

UBL is fish food and while al Qaida won't collapse without UBL at the helm, the psychological ramifications of the brazenness of the op and the execution of it make it a very successful outcome indeed.

It's just too bad that Barry will get the credit, but I'm hopeful that the forgetfulness of the American people will win the day for the next presidential election and he'll be tossed out on his ass.

From the mouth of a DUmmies comes the truth.

"cheney's torture" is the reason he got OBL < MockAndHaw > 05/02 09:22:29

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/forums/?ID=188382117

they're already claiming it...

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Worse than I imagined:

DEVELOPING: Usama bin Laden was given a religious funeral prior to his burial at sea, senior military officials told Fox News.

Religious rites were conducted on the deck of the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier at about 1:10 a.m. Monday in the Persian Gulf.

In accordance with Islamic practice, bin Laden was washed and wrapped in a white sheet before buried at sea at 2 a.m. local time, senior U.S. military and intelligence officials said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/02/bin-laden-given-religious-funeral-prior-sea-burial/#ixzz1LDjugNMO

[DefiantSix]

Worse than I imagined:

Meh.  I consider it like John Constantine giving last rites to Balthazar.

[Eupher]

Worse than I imagined:

Once again, you're putting more into those words than are actually there.

"Religious rites" could consist of some Airedale picking his nose with one finger while he's scratching his balls with his other hand.

"Washed and wrapped in a white sheet" could very well mean a different Airedale pissing on the corpse before being wrapped in a sheet that used to be white, but is now a mottled green because another Sailor got seasick and they allowed the sheet to become a mold-infested science project.

I can't imagine anybody wanting to be on the deck of that ship at 0200 for "religious rites," the chaplain least of all.

[thundley4]

Once again, you're putting more into those words than are actually there.

"Religious rites" could consist of some Airedale picking his nose with one finger while he's scratching his balls with his other hand.

"Washed and wrapped in a white sheet" could very well mean a different Airedale pissing on the corpse before being wrapped in a sheet that used to be white, but is now a mottled green because another Sailor got seasick and they allowed the sheet to become a mold-infested science project.

I can't imagine anybody wanting to be on the deck of that ship at 0200 for "religious rites," the chaplain least of all.

I believe that they recorded everything just to have proof that it was done properly. We may never see the video, but it will be shown to Arab leaders.

[Eupher]

I believe that they recorded everything just to have proof that it was done properly. We may never see the video, but it will be shown to Arab leaders.

You are likely 100% correct.

In this CYA world, there is no greater motivator to cover one's ass than by resorting to the inevitable Dog and Pony Show.

[vesta111]

In storms Mother, hissing like a snake, first thing our of her mouth is,   Obama is up to something, I don't think UBL is in fact dead , then again how do we know he hasn't been dead for years ????

She reminded me that she was of the generation of those that killed Hitler and the frustration of never knowing for sure if he and wife did not get away before the Russians came to town.   Oh Excuse me I forgot that a couple witnesses SWORE that Hitler committed suicide and they burned him all up except for one small skull fragment.     

In this day and age when a person dies there is an autopsy done, they did one on JFK and brother Bobby when they were killed, why not one on UBL.?????
 
Now there will be generations after generations of people never knowing for sure who was dropped off the ship in the dead of the night.

Why the rush to get him in the deep blue sea, there is a morgue on board the Carrier and a full autopsy could have been done there.

When someone as well known as UBL dies as horrid a person as he was, humans need to see for themselves that the slayed monster can never try to eat them again.  One does not give dignity, respect or any consideration to the body of a monster such as he.

Why dump him over board at a time the crew could not all get out and cheer as witness to history????

I heard the excuse that Obama did not want to turn the body over to Pakistan to bury as the site could become a shrine to his followers.  BULLLLLLLLLLLLLL SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

Last week the Long Form birth certificate, this week we killed a man we could not find for 10 years,  next week should be interesting.   
   

Table #3    Elvis, Jim Morrison and UBL are complaining about the Goat Cheese salad.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

(ABC News) — Osama bin Laden’s corpse was taken to the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, officials tell ABC News.

The process of his burial at sea was done in accordance with Muslim law — a Muslim seaman conducted the process and said the proper prayers, with bin Laden’s body wrapped in the appropriate way.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/05/osama-bin-ladens-corpse-and-a-pentagon-power-point-on-his-compound-.html

The prayer:

O Allah, forgive our living and our dead, those who are present among us and those who are absent, our young and our old, our males and our females. O Allah, whoever You keep alive, keep him alive in Islam, and whoever You cause to die, cause him to die with faith. O Allah, forgive him and have mercy on him, keep him safe and sound and forgive him, honour the place where he settles and make his entrance wide; wash him with water and snow and hail, and cleanse him of sin as a white garment is cleansed of dirt. O Allah, give him a house better than his house and a family better than his family. O Allah, admit him to Paradise and protect him from the torment of the grave and the torment of Hell-fire; make his grave spacious and fill it with light. O Allah, do not deprive us of the reward and do not cause us to go astray after this.

How ****ing magnanimous.

[DumbAss Tanker]

The funeral's for the benefit of the living, not the dead.  Grow up, people.