Horrible

[Habsfan]

Too many people have a nonchalant attitude when it comes to abortion, it's just a bunch of cells, no it's not, it's a human life in the beginning stages, and you know what? if it's just a bunch of cells then there should be no reason at all that a woman, who should've used protection beforehand, shouldn't be shown exactly what she's aborting, and that includes watching an ultrasound of what she's doing away with, let her see her child struggling because he/she are in survival mode, pictures should be taken of her aborted child and given to the woman, and let's start calling it what it is, no more medical terms describing the procedure, I'm on the pro-life side so let's start calling the opposition pro-abortion or pro-death, because that's exactly what that view is. And let's start getting graphic here, you tell me these aren't babies:

http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/

Getting off my soapbox now, it's such an infuriating subject.

One of my nieces who I'm very close to told me she had an abortion (didn't tell me until after the fact) because they found out the baby at 4 months gestation had Downs Syndrome. I don't know how she can live with herself.... They now have 3 beautiful healthy children but "that one" was not wanted. 

[Ballygrl]

One of my nieces who I'm very close to told me she had an abortion (didn't tell me until after the fact) because they found out the baby at 4 months gestation had Downs Syndrome. I don't know how she can live with herself.... They now have 3 beautiful healthy children but "that one" was not wanted. 

That Down Syndrome child had as much a right to life as everyone else. Does it ring a bell to anyone when some want to live in a perfect society?

[Habsfan]

That Down Syndrome child had as much a right to life as everyone else. Does it ring a bell to anyone when some want to live in a perfect society?

The family are ultra-liberals. It's only a clump of cells, not human, etc. until it's out of the womb. I really don't know what their convoluted thinking is.

I was just thinking about their twisted reasoning: If a woman should die in her later stage of pregnancy; for example in the case of a violent death, it's recorded as two individuals having died (re: Scott Peterson case.) The baby was not born yet. Therefore not a human being if you want to think like a pro-choice fanatic. Why was there a murder charge against a fetus? They aren't protesting against this?
Who decides when it's a fetus that can just be discarded? Makes absolutely no sense.

[DefiantSix]

That Down Syndrome child had as much a right to life as everyone else. Does it ring a bell to anyone when some want to live in a perfect society?

In my church we have what are called patriarchal blessings:  these aren't mandatory, but supposedly are the little words of counsel that Father in Heaven gave you before your spirit was sent down to Earth: it may address anything from your mission in life, things to watch out for; stuff to give the recipient a little insight into who he/she is (in Heavenly father's eyes) and what directions might hold the greatest blessings in store if they took them.

Story goes, that there was a boy who was born with Downs.  In spite of loving parents and friends, the boy felt trapped within his condition; a freak without a purpose.  His bishop suggested that he receive his patriarchal blessing.  After a little resistance, the young man agreed to do so.  Lo and behold, the stake patriarch who blessed him, revealed to him that at the time when Satan was expelled from God's presence, this young man was on one of his arms, escorting the Devil to the front gate.  The Downs Syndrome that he had looked upon for much of his life as a trap and a prison was in fact deliberately given to him as a shield and a protection; the boy had already demonstrated his valiance in heaven before he was born, and the Downs was there to prevent Satan from exacting his revenge upon one of Father in Heaven's children that he hated most of all, by causing him to lose his seat in heaven through sin.

Since hearing that story (and I am acquainted with the family to whom this young man is a part), I do not look at "Downs Babies" the same way.  I would imagine, neither will their mothers, when the veil of this world is lifted and they can see these children for the souls that they really are.

Just my $0.02.  Feel free to give change.

[FreeBorn]

One of my nieces who I'm very close to told me she had an abortion (didn't tell me until after the fact) because they found out the baby at 4 months gestation had Downs Syndrome. I don't know how she can live with herself.... They now have 3 beautiful healthy children but "that one" was not wanted. 

That's part of the reason the leftists hate Sarah Palin, that she is the proud and loving Mother of a child with downs syndrome. They can't stand that, the fact that it reveals those women who opt to kill such a child are failures as women and Sarah is the example of what what Motherhood is all about, loving your child unconditionally and always, always putting the child first.

[rubliw]

Why? there is no medical reason for the abortion and since there is no need to have one to save the mother then there is nothing to discuss. Its murder ,that is all it is and will be. The apologist can go out in the front yard of Osama's place and jump on a land mine for all I care

Between the fantasizing about women being killed in car crashes on the way to the abortion clinic and this... man, that's it.. I'm convinced.. you guys are real humanitarians.  What wonderful examples you set for us all!

[BEG]

Between the fantasizing about women being killed in car crashes on the way to the abortion clinic and this... man, that's it.. I'm convinced.. you guys are real humanitarians.  What wonderful examples you set for us all!

Do you have kids?

[thundley4]

Between the fantasizing about women being killed in car crashes on the way to the abortion clinic and this... man, that's it.. I'm convinced.. you guys are real humanitarians.  What wonderful examples you set for us all!

Most of us think the death penalty for people that commit murder is a perfectly good sentence. If this woman had carried through with an abortion for the given reason, then she is no different than some guy who kills a someone while robbing them.

[Gina]

Between the fantasizing about women being killed in car crashes on the way to the abortion clinic and this... man, that's it.. I'm convinced.. you guys are real humanitarians.  What wonderful examples you set for us all!

Why are you even here?    Is this what you were looking to do when you came to the conservative cave?  This is not the place for you, really. We are awful people that don't think abortion is right.  We are not your kind and the only real reason I can see you sticking around here is that you just want to do the same ole con/lib fighting over the same ole subjects.   

[Eupher]

Thanks, Euph.  Wouldn't a bitchslap be more appropriate?

 

A bitchslap for me today will get you a h5 next Tuesday. (or maybe today if I can get to it.) 

[Eupher]

Between the fantasizing about women being killed in car crashes on the way to the abortion clinic and this... man, that's it.. I'm convinced.. you guys are real humanitarians.  What wonderful examples you set for us all!

Sarcasm duly noted.

Man, that's it...I'm convinced...you are a ghoul. What a terrible example you set for your children -- assuming you have them.

What size are your jackboots?

[Airwolf]

I'm not here to be an example for anyone that's basically a laser guided retard. My post was a reply to Evil Conservative and her expression of a need to reply to some fool that thinks killing innocent babies is OK.

[rubliw]

Do you have kids?

Nope, I don't have any myself... now, I don't know how having a child would change my views on abortion or not, but I'm tempted to think not - since over half of all abortions are had by women who already have kids.

[Evil_Conservative]

Nope, I don't have any myself... now, I don't know how having a child would change my views on abortion or not, but I'm tempted to think not - since over half of all abortions are had by women who already have kids.

Can you back that up with proof?

[rubliw]

Can you back that up with proof?

 
"Most women having abortions (61%) already had at least one child, including 34% who had
two or more children."

Pasted from: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/US-Abortion-Patients.pdf

Now maybe you distrust guttmacher, since they are a pro-choice think tank - but they have more comprehensive stats than anybody, and I regularly see pro-life organizations rely on many of them.

[dandi]

Nope, I don't have any myself...

That explains quite a bit, doesn't it?

now, I don't know how having a child would change my views on abortion or not, but I'm tempted to think not

It would.

[Gina]

That explains quite a bit, doesn't it?

It would.

I agree, it would.   

[rubliw]

Well, again - pretty skeptical.  There are plenty of pro-choice parents.

If I ever have a child, my emotional reaction to it might be to think its the greatest thing ever, from the very beginning - even during the stages of development where I know it is mindless.   I would know, though, that such feelings are emotional reactions, not critical or rational assessments of the true nature of the developing being.   I would still know that others might have very different emotional reactions... reactions that could range from pure joy and happiness, to unbridled terror and distress.

[catsmtrods]

WTF is this your one man crusade for abortion? You seem very passionate about the subject. Could it be a guilt trip? Maybe pushed a young girlfriend into having one cause you were to spineless to face you responsibilities? 

[dandi]

WTF is this your one man crusade for abortion? You seem very passionate about the subject. Could it be a guilt trip? Maybe pushed a young girlfriend into having one cause you were to spineless to face you responsibilities? 

More like someone who has drunk the liberal koolaid and hasn't been sobered up when staring at a life that he helped create.

IOW, young and ignorant...

[rubliw]

WTF is this your one man crusade for abortion? You seem very passionate about the subject. Could it be a guilt trip? Maybe pushed a young girlfriend into having one cause you were to spineless to face you responsibilities?  

No, I just like talking and thinking about the areas of philosophy that deal with life, rights, morality, religion, etc... abortion touches on all of them.

I was always extremely careful when it comes to pregnancy and std's.  So no, there's no guilt trip here.

[MrsSmith]

The 20th century was replete with liberals devaluing the human life of the victims of their philosophy. Abortion is just the latest in a long, long line of holocausts.

Exactly.  There have always been humans that felt some other human wasn't "human enough" to be a real "person."  Whether the "rational" decision is made on race, religion, sex, development, location, or any other division of humanity, it's all the same thought process.  Abortion, slavery, holocaust...some humans just have to find some reason to proclaim that they are more human, smarter, more developed, more capable than some other portion of humanity and should therefore certainly have the right to use that portion of humanity as they choose.  

All through known history, there have been men that thought they were God, or were smarter than God.  Most have long learned the consequences of their pride and arrogance.  The rest...wil. (sic)

[Gina]

No, I just like talking and thinking about the areas of philosophy that deal with life, rights, morality, religion, etc... abortion touches on all of them.

I was always extremely careful when it comes to pregnancy and std's.  So no, there's no guilt trip here.

We don't care about areas of philosophy.  We are talking about a beating heart.  Stopping a beating heart.  We are talking about a human.  You were once one weren't you?

[Airwolf]

We don't care about areas of philosophy.  We are talking about a beating heart.  Stopping a beating heart.  We are talking about a human.  You were once one weren't you?

The question should be for him is this,

"Did your parents have any children that lived?"

[rubliw]

We don't care about areas of philosophy.

You most certainly do.... any statement about value - whether you want to acknowledge it or not - is philosophical statement.

I by no means think the answer to the abortion question is obvious or undebatable or that my position is infallible, even though I've been strongly persuaded to call myself pro-choice.   I don't think otherwise well meaning people are ghouls for having different values which lead to different conclusions, even if I think those values are misguided.  

And furthermore, whether you like it or not, you are in a nation whose laws enshrine values that directly contradict your own.  You're in a nation where at least half the population stands in direct philosophical opposition to your values.. so you better care about the relevant areas of philosophy if you intend to actually claim that your position is justified.  And just as an aside, under such conditions, an appropriately cautious and humble person might just make a little room for the possibility that they are wrong on the issue, and not be so dogmatic and extremist as to wish death upon those who disagree.

We are talking about a beating heart.  Stopping a beating heart.  We are talking about a human.

So you think beating hearts are valuable (guess what... that's philosophy).  I don't particularly care about them.  I'm open to being convinced, but as I see it right now, hearts are just muscles.  And muscles by themselves have no real morally significant qualities.   I'd also argue that you don't really  care all that much about them either, since newly conceived eggs don't have beating hearts... yet you want to protect them too no?

I don't particularly care about whether something is human or not.   Living cadavers are human, the skin cells we are constantly shedding are human... the spit deposited on the dugout floor by a baseball player is human... heck, dead cadavers are human.   The boundaries of my moral sphere do not start or end with things human...

The boundaries start and end with minds. At the moment, I see no good reason why I should care so much about things that do not have them.  Now, eventually, a developing baby WILL have a mind, and there is definitely something to be said for that.  I think we should value that potential.  But in my opinion - the woman's rights and wishes is what really matters the most.