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Author Topic: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions  (Read 6268 times)

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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2010, 12:13:26 PM »
I'm reminded of the time the father of a high school buddy of mine was pulled over and cited by Bremerton PD for doing - no shit - 1,100 MPH in a 55 zone.  Turned out the cop wasn't banking on this guy being able to talk to the Base Administration office at PSNS, find out which ship was doing radar testing at such and such a time on so and so date, and have a letter from the office of the Base Commander to that effect in hand when he walked into the courtroom.

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Offline The Village Idiot

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2010, 12:24:23 PM »
Quote from: DefiantSix on June 04, 2010, 12:13:26 PM
I'm reminded of the time the father of a high school buddy of mine was pulled over and cited by Bremerton PD for doing - no shit - 1,100 MPH in a 55 zone. 

You would think the cop would have figured 1,100 MPH was a tad unrealistic
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Offline djones520

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2010, 12:32:42 PM »
Quote from: Thor on June 02, 2010, 02:09:00 PM
On the Officer's behalf, there was a point in my life, when I was a Reserve Police Officer, that I could estimate someone's speed and be within 1 MPH of their actual speed as verified by RADAR. I made a game of it and got very good at it. HOWEVER, I wouldn't EVER issue a speeding ticket based on my estimate, it would be based on what the RADAR read. Those judges need their asses handed to them.

When I took High School Physics, our teacher had a couple of the county Sherrifs come out and show us the radar and everything.  We also did a test to see how well they could judge speeds by the eye.  Every car they hit with the radar they were within 1 mph.

I'm certified to judge distance without the use of any markers.  Those calls are officially transmitted worldwide and are used for all air traffic.  I don't see that big of a differance here.
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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2010, 12:39:55 PM »
Quote from: FGL on June 04, 2010, 12:24:23 PM
You would think the cop would have figured 1,100 MPH was a tad unrealistic

One would hope; but apparently the officer thought all he needed was to testify that this is what his radar gun reported to him.  The state - sponsored extortion racket never much impressed me after that.

My understanding, is that in court, the judge actually asked the officer, "If he was doing 1,100 MPH, how the hell did YOU catch 'im?
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2010, 12:47:28 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on June 04, 2010, 12:32:42 PM
When I took High School Physics, our teacher had a couple of the county Sherrifs come out and show us the radar and everything.  We also did a test to see how well they could judge speeds by the eye.  Every car they hit with the radar they were within 1 mph.

I'm certified to judge distance without the use of any markers.  Those calls are officially transmitted worldwide and are used for all air traffic.  I don't see that big of a differance here.

That's all well and good, but until they come up with a calibration standard/ISO 9001 certification for the human eyeball, they better have something else to back it up.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2010, 12:52:26 PM »
Quote from: NHSparky on June 04, 2010, 12:47:28 PM
That's all well and good, but until they come up with a calibration standard/ISO 9001 certification for the human eyeball, they better have something else to back it up.

Agreed.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2010, 01:31:49 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on June 04, 2010, 12:32:42 PM
When I took High School Physics, our teacher had a couple of the county Sherrifs come out and show us the radar and everything.  We also did a test to see how well they could judge speeds by the eye.  Every car they hit with the radar they were within 1 mph.

I'm certified to judge distance without the use of any markers.  Those calls are officially transmitted worldwide and are used for all air traffic.  I don't see that big of a differance here.

Without SOLID evidence, it's just a guess. That why  weather people are often referred to as "Weather Guessers" Hell, even radar units have been beat in court. At a minimum, the radar or laser unit is pretty exact when calibrated properly. I would calibrate my radar unit at the beginning of every shift I ran speed control and sometimes a couple of times throughout the shift, depending on what was going on.

I find Def6s story a little far fetched because many radar units maxed out at 199 mph., especially the ones used on military installations.
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Offline djones520

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2010, 02:03:23 PM »
Quote from: Thor on June 04, 2010, 01:31:49 PM
Without SOLID evidence, it's just a guess. That why  weather people are often referred to as "Weather Guessers" Hell, even radar units have been beat in court. At a minimum, the radar or laser unit is pretty exact when calibrated properly. I would calibrate my radar unit at the beginning of every shift I ran speed control and sometimes a couple of times throughout the shift, depending on what was going on.

I find Def6s story a little far fetched because many radar units maxed out at 199 mph., especially the ones used on military installations.

Guesses that million/billion dollar decisions are made on.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2010, 02:08:53 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on June 04, 2010, 02:03:23 PM
Guesses that million/billion dollar decisions are made on.

Such as?
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Offline Thor

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2010, 02:12:28 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on June 04, 2010, 02:03:23 PM
Guesses that million/billion dollar decisions are made on.

That's scary!! If I recall, the weather people, such as yourself, predicted good weather for Iranian hostage recuse attempt back in 1979. An UNPREDICTED sandstorm caused the deaths of quite a few people and a failed rescue attempt. The weather folks screwed the pooch on that one. So, yeah, keep making those guesses.......
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Offline djones520

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2010, 02:13:10 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on June 04, 2010, 02:08:53 PM
Such as?

Any time an aircraft takes off.  How major operations are planned.  Troop movements.  Humanitarian efforts.  Etc...  It's all done off of our "guesses".

Hell, our "guesses" a few days ago allowed leadership at AMC to begin planning humanitarian efforts for Karachi which is about to get smashed by a super typhoon.

At a smaller scale, my "guess" at when a thunderstorm would strike Misawa Air Base gave the Wing Commander enough time to land his F-16 and taxi into a hanger 1 minute before lightning struck the airfield.
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Offline djones520

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2010, 02:13:58 PM »
Quote from: Thor on June 04, 2010, 02:12:28 PM
That's scary!! If I recall, the weather people, such as yourself, predicted good weather for Iranian hostage recuse attempt back in 1979. An UNPREDICTED sandstorm caused the deaths of quite a few people and a failed rescue attempt. The weather folks screwed the pooch on that one. So, yeah, keep making those guesses.......

Thanks for just pissing all over me for something that happened 31 years ago.   :whatever:  It's not like we haven't gotten better at forecasting since then.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2010, 02:17:34 PM »
Quote from: djones520 on June 04, 2010, 02:13:10 PM
Any time an aircraft takes off.  How major operations are planned.  Troop movements.  Humanitarian efforts.  Etc...  It's all done off of our "guesses".

Hell, our "guesses" a few days ago allowed leadership at AMC to begin planning humanitarian efforts for Karachi which is about to get smashed by a super typhoon.

At a smaller scale, my "guess" at when a thunderstorm would strike Misawa Air Base gave the Wing Commander enough time to land his F-16 and taxi into a hanger 1 minute before lightning struck the airfield.

Uh huh.  I guess that the F-16 isn't all that prone to lightening damge to begin with.  They call it an all weather craft for a reason would be my guess.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2010, 02:23:43 PM »
But what the hell DJ. 

A guess is good enough for you.

Personally I don't want to pay a fine, have my insurance go up, or possibly even lose my job over somebodies "guess".

But maybe that is just me.

I'm sure you would have no problem with it if it were you being accussed right?
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Offline Thor

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2010, 02:24:06 PM »
Don't take it personally, Jonesy. I'm not really picking on YOU, I'm merely pointing out that guesses are as good as a mile. Let's not forget what weather was initially predicted for D-Day......... that didn't work out so well, either.

Back to the original topic, I would go to court on any speeding ticket issued  by a guess. I still say that without PROOF, an officer's estimate, no matter how good they think they might be, should NOT be used as "evidence".
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2010, 02:27:23 PM »
Quote from: Thor on June 04, 2010, 02:24:06 PM
Don't take it personally, Jonesy. I'm not really picking on YOU, I'm merely pointing out that guesses are as good as a mile. Let's not forget what weather was initially predicted for D-Day......... that didn't work out so well, either.

Back to the original topic, I would go to court on any speeding ticket issued  by a guess. I still say that without PROOF, an officer's estimate, no matter how good they think they might be, should NOT be used as "evidence".

Well... for those driving in or through the state of Ohio, the Ohio Supreme Court has decided otherwise.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2010, 02:30:02 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on June 04, 2010, 02:27:23 PM
Well... for those driving in or through the state of Ohio, the Ohio Supreme Court has decided otherwise.

and I STILL would say that their opinion is flawed.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2010, 02:45:03 PM »
Quote from: Thor on June 04, 2010, 02:30:02 PM
and I STILL would say that their opinion is flawed.

I agree with you.
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