Officer estimates enough for speeding convictions

[thundley4]

COLUMBUS: Ohio's highest court has ruled that a person may be convicted of speeding purely if it looked to a police officer that the motorist was going too fast.

The Ohio Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that an officer's visual estimation of speed is enough to support a conviction if the officer is trained, certified by a training academy, and experienced in watching for speeders. The court's 5-1 decision says independent verification of a driver's speed is not necessary.

The court upheld a lower court's ruling against a driver who challenged a speeding conviction that had been based on testimony from police officer in Copley, 25 miles south of Cleveland. The officer said it appeared to him that the man was driving too fast.

Ohio.com

Too short to excerpt.

[The Village Idiot]

That is INSANE.

Mark Steyn was right "Government by whim"

[Thor]

On the Officer's behalf, there was a point in my life, when I was a Reserve Police Officer, that I could estimate someone's speed and be within 1 MPH of their actual speed as verified by RADAR. I made a game of it and got very good at it. HOWEVER, I wouldn't EVER issue a speeding ticket based on my estimate, it would be based on what the RADAR read. Those judges need their asses handed to them.

[NHSparky]

Whelp, they're looking for a whole lot of tickets being tossed and a whole lot of court time being wasted.

[thundley4]

Whelp, they're looking for a whole lot of tickets being tossed and a whole lot of court time being wasted.

Why?  The Ohio Supremes said it was legal.

[Texacon]

And what, pray tell, would the speeding ticket be written for??  I seriously doubt anyone could be exact in their estimation 100% of the time and if you could prove they were off ..... 

Lord that is a stupid ruling.

Can they arrest someone because they look like a rapist too?

KC

[rich_t]

That just sucks.  I live in Ohio.

I'd challange the officer's estimate in court if I am pulled over and issued a ticket.

I'd ask the court to allow an independent verification of the officer's ability to accurately "estimate" speed.

Cops all over the state are going to start abusing this ruling.

I can see the citation now:

Officer estimates that driver was driving 68 mph in a 65 mph zone.

The full ruling can be viewed here

[Texacon]

Why?  The Ohio Supremes said it was legal.

I could see something like this going to the Supreme Court.  Seriously.

KC

[rich_t]

I could see something like this going to the Supreme Court.  Seriously.

KC

Based on what?

[Lacarnut]

The states are just thinking up more ways to suck up more money from us. An estimate of 3 or 4 miles plus or minus seems like a large spread ( 6 to 8 mph). I would have asked the officer what was the highest speeds that were obtained at his schooling. 90, 120, 150, 190? At speeds over a 100, his expertise would fall flat.  

[bkg]

The states are just thinking up more ways to suck up more money from us. An estimate of 3 or 4 miles plus or minus seems like a large spread ( 6 to 8 mph). I would have asked the officer what was the highest speeds that were obtained at his schooling. 90, 120, 150, 190? At speeds over a 100, his expertise would fall flat.  

yup.

IF you can't tell me - and prove it - how fast I was going, you can't tell me I was breaking any law.

Last I checked, innocent until PROVEN guilty was still written... somewhere..

[Texacon]

Based on what?

Speeding fines are typically based on the amount of miles per hour over the limit.  How many speeding tickets are written in Ohio in one year?  How many of them are over estimated by 2 or 3 miles per hour?  What are they basing their conviction on?  What if I look like I'm doing 58 in a 55 when I was in fact doing 55?  Just wait ... someone will get smart and have their car inspected then strap a camera in it.

As I said above .... can they now arrest someone because they look like a rapist?  This has huge implications.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a lawyer.

KC

[DefiantSix]

Speeding fines are typically based on the amount of miles per hour over the limit.  How many speeding tickets are written in Ohio in one year?  How many of them are over estimated by 2 or 3 miles per hour?  What are they basing their conviction on?  What if I look like I'm doing 58 in a 55 when I was in fact doing 55?  Just wait ... someone will get smart and have their car inspected then strap a camera in it.

As I said above .... can they now arrest someone because they look like a rapist?  This has huge implications.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a lawyer.

KC

I already carry GPS in my truck and a digital camera on my cell phone.  It's no problem for me to snap a pic with a date stamp of the GPS screen before letting off on the accelerator to pull over, if the state-run extortion racket wants to play things this way.

[bkg]

I already carry GPS in my truck and a digital camera on my cell phone.  It's no problem for me to snap a pic with a date stamp of the GPS screen before letting off on the accelerator to pull over, if the state-run extortion racket wants to play things this way.

if I tried to do that...

I'd end up in a ditch
I'd get a ticket for "texting"...

[vesta111]

Speeding fines are typically based on the amount of miles per hour over the limit.  How many speeding tickets are written in Ohio in one year?  How many of them are over estimated by 2 or 3 miles per hour?  What are they basing their conviction on?  What if I look like I'm doing 58 in a 55 when I was in fact doing 55?  Just wait ... someone will get smart and have their car inspected then strap a camera in it.

As I said above .... can they now arrest someone because they look like a rapist?  This has huge implications.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a lawyer.

KC

A friend of my Dads was driving from Maine to Fla. and was stopped for speeding.He had a bran new car and had the cruse controll engaged.

He asked the officer to follow him and when he got to the speed limit to blink his lights.   Sure enough when the speedometer was 10 mph less then the limit the Officer put on his lights.

Fortunately the Officer had Dads friend follow him to a local dealership.  When the Friend and wife arrived with the Officer in tow they were taken in right away.  To insure the work after they all left the dealership they repeated the test and darn it still was off by 5 mph.

The couple had to spend the night in a motel but the Officer and wife gave them a tour of the local area and by the next day the dealership finally got things corrected.

Last I heard this was the beginning of a 20 year friendship and Dads friend and wife wrote letters of commendation to the Chief of Police.

We have that Radar to catch speeders but when the speedometer in the car is not checked----very expensive for the driver.

[NHSparky]

Why?  The Ohio Supremes said it was legal.

Yeah, who gives a shit about the Fourth Amendment, right?  **** reasonable suspicion, rules of evidence, little shit like that.

This serves only to boost revenue, not serve the greater interests of justice or the rule of law.

[jinxmchue]

So, um...  How did cops catch speeders before radar guns?

[thundley4]

So, um...  How did cops catch speeders before radar guns?

Timing their travel between two known points and calculating their speed? 

[Thor]

Timing their travel between two known points and calculating their speed? 

They STILL do that is some places and in particular, those pesky airplanes that radio the ground units.  Pay attention to a couple of broad white stripes on the edge of the highway that are perpendicular to the direction of travel. They are usually an eighth mile apart or something.

[thundley4]

They STILL do that is some places and in particular, those pesky airplanes that radio the ground units.  Pay attention to a couple of broad white stripes on the edge of the highway that are perpendicular to the direction of travel. They are usually an eighth mile apart or something.

I know. I remember going through Pennsylvania and seeing the warning signs along the interstates.

[DefiantSix]

I know. I remember going through Pennsylvania and seeing the warning signs along the interstates.

The warning signs are one thing.  You know you are a screwed dude when you can see the mast mounted sight poking through the trees.

[NHSparky]

I know. I remember going through Pennsylvania and seeing the warning signs along the interstates.

There are plenty of places that still use aircraft.  I-15 between Barstow and the Nevada state line is crawling with them, both SB County sheriffs and CHP.  But herein lies the difference--they're MEASURING your speed against a known standard, not going by the "we THINK you're going fast"...they're actually proving it.

[Randy]

Gotta love it, Moonbat law enforcement.

It made me feeeeel  like he was speeding.

[NHSparky]

I can't wait for this exchange in court:

Do you plead guilty or not guilty to speeding?

Not guilty, Your Honor.  However, I'd like to charge the officer who cited me with murder.

MURDER?  Are you serious?

Absolutely.  I can tell just by looking.

And what EVIDENCE do you have that this officer committed any crime?

The same evidence he has against me, Your Honor--absolutely none.


Now while I fully expect the first person to try this will likely get slapped with a contempt citation, the point will be made.  How far a stretch is it to charge a person with a traffic offense with no evidence to a capital crime with no evidence? 

[bkg]

I can't wait for this exchange in court:

Do you plead guilty or not guilty to speeding?

Not guilty, Your Honor.  However, I'd like to charge the officer who cited me with murder.

MURDER?  Are you serious?

Absolutely.  I can tell just by looking.

And what EVIDENCE do you have that this officer committed any crime?

The same evidence he has against me, Your Honor--absolutely none.


Now while I fully expect the first person to try this will likely get slapped with a contempt citation, the point will be made.  How far a stretch is it to charge a person with a traffic offense with no evidence to a capital crime with no evidence? 

It'd be fun to watch!