Skinner speaks , gets ass kissed many times.

[thundley4]

Skinner ADMIN  (1000+ posts)             Tue Feb-02-10 11:40 AM
Original message
A few words about civility and how we moderate the DU discussion forums.   
   

Early last month, when we were caught in the heat of the health care debate, and the tone here on DU could have been rightly described as "toxic," the DU Administators wrote a fairly long and thoughtful post about the need for greater civility. And then we decided not to post it.

Overall, it was a pretty good post. We gave it to the DU moderators, and their feedback was mostly positive. But we ultimately decided against posting it because the DU Admins decided that asking all of you to be nice to each other was no longer good enough. Sure, asking people to be nice is a good thing to do, and sometimes it even makes a difference. But before we did, we decided to take a look at the way we moderate the discussions here, to figure out if we could help our moderators do their job more effectively. Our hope was that if our moderators could enforce the rules faster and better, then small problems would be less likely to escalate into big problems.

A LITTLE BACKGROUND

This website was founded on the day that George W. Bush was inaugurated, on January 20, 2001. During the eight years of his presidency, no matter what loud and long disagreements we may have had among ourselves, opposition to the Bush regime was the glue that held us all together. Now that the Democrats have control of the House, Senate, and White House, that glue has been stripped away. While the end of the Bush Administration has been good news for this country, it has created some (not entirely unexpected) challenges for Democratic Underground.

The ongoing debate over health care reform has served as a stark example of the new challenges we face. While we all share the goal of reforming our health care system, and most of us probably agree on what we feel is the "ideal" way to change the system, there have been some very clear splits among our members on whether the various reforms under consideration should be enacted into law or allowed to die. The health care debate is just one illustration of the situation here on DU now that the Democrats are in power, but it is not the only one. The pattern is repeated over many different issues, with some DUers expressing support of Democratic policy proposals, while others express their opposition. To be clear, this is completely appropriate for a large and diverse community like our own. But it has obviously caused a fair amount of consternation for some of our members.

SO WHAT CAN WE DO?

I'll say straight away that many of you need to come to grips with the fact that we will be unable to mediate discussions here to your satisfaction. We are well aware that many DU members have long believed that we should exclude viewpoints that differ from their own. But while it may feel good to hold the belief that all of DU's problems will be solved if the Admins just got rid of the "trolls" or the "neo-cons" or the "PUMAS" or the "paid cheerleaders," we have to deal with the reality of running this enormous discussion forum.

For the nine years that DU has been in existence, we have for the most part resisted urges to exclude points of view held by anyone in "our half" of the political spectrum. I feel pretty safe arguing that this policy is a big reason why DU continues to thrive. Therefore, while many of you might wish me to say that as of now only those who adhere to a point of view similar to your own will be welcome on DU, that's not going to happen.

I firmly believe that we need to find a way to keep this community open to a broad range of progressive viewpoints, and after a great deal of thought and discussion, the DU Administrators have come to believe that the best way to achieve this is to focus on combating incivility. We don't believe that it is the fierce arguments over policy and the direction of the country that have been causing our problems -- after all this is a discussion forum -- but more the manner in which these arguments are being conducted.

UPDATING OUR MODERATING SYSTEM FOR THE NEW ERA

Our system of moderating has never been perfect, but it was good enough and it served us pretty well for a long time. However, with the Democrats in charge our disagreements tear at the fabric of this community in a way that they never did (and never could) before.

To be sure, our moderators themselves work extremely hard every day to enforce the rules, and to do so in a manner that is as fair and evenhanded as possible. But they have been saddled with an antiquated moderating system that throws up needless obstacles, ties their hands, and makes it difficult for them to act in a prompt and effective way. By tying their hands, we had created a situation where disruptive posts stayed on the site for too long, breeding more disruptive posts, and sending the message that there are no consequences for incivility. We were caught in a vicious cycle, where a pervasive culture of incivility bred more incivility -- even by people who wanted to be productive members of the community. Many people stopped alerting on rule violations -- either because they thought someone else already did, or because they came to believe it was pointless -- which left even more disruptive posts on the site. Even if everyone did alert on every rule violation, I suspect the moderators would have been too overwhelmed to deal with all of them anyway.

So, we decided to focus on our moderating system, to see if there was anything we could do to help our hard-working moderators be more effective. During the month of January, we identified a number of things we could do to streamline the moderating process, and we have already begun to implement these changes. With a few relatively simple updates, we have been able to signficantly improve the amount of time it takes to respond to member alerts. Where it used to sometimes take hours to have your alerts read and acted upon, it now takes minutes. During the day -- when we have a lot of moderators online -- an obvious rule violation will almost always be removed within 15 minutes of the first alert. (The more borderline stuff will often take longer than that -- but even if they don't come to a resolution, I can almost guarantee that the mods will be busy discussing your alert within minutes.)

We have chosen to focus on improving our response time for alerts because this is where we feel we can make the most difference. If you know your alert will be handled in a timely manner, then you will have an incentive to alert on an uncivil post rather than respond in-kind. Over time, we believe it will become easier for members to participate here in a positive way. If you are not faced with so many uncivil posts, then you all will not feel the need to act in an uncivil manner. We hope to replace a vicious cycle with a virtuous cycle.

WHAT YOU CAN (AND SHOULD) DO

So, now that we are starting to put the necessary infrastructure in place, we need you to start clicking the alert link again. I can't promise that the moderators will always agree with you when you want a post removed. But I can promise that every alert will be considered in a timely manner. And virtually none will fall through the cracks.

Of course, it would be even better if it weren't necessary to alert in the first place. We're coming off of a week where the news was mostly good, and the discussions on DU were mostly positive. The news won't always be good, but we can all do our part to help keep the discussions civil.

Now that they have the means to do so, the moderators are doing their part by tightening civility enforcement a bit. Some behaviors that have been common in the past are now more likely to get your post deleted. One such behavior is the use of unflattering names to refer to groups of DUers. This has had a particularly corrosive effect on discussions of Present Obama's legislative agenda, where it has become common to refer to people as "Obama apologists," "Obama haters," and the like. This type of name-calling is both inflammatory and unnecessary. Instead, use more respectful and specific phrasing like "Obama's critics" or "Obama's defenders" (Or better yet, "critics of President Obama's ___________ proposal" or "supporters of President Obama's ___________ proposal").

Everybody here can help make DU a more welcoming community, where different ideas are exchanged in an atmosphere of mutual respect. Let's all make an effort to participate in a more positive way. I know it's difficult sometimes, but I am confident everyone here is capable of doing it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7623624

[kenth]

Sure, asking people to be nice is a good thing to do, and sometimes it even makes a difference.

But it was way more fun not to...

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

This website was founded on the day that George W. Bush was inaugurated, on January 20, 2001. During the eight years of his presidency, no matter what loud and long disagreements we may have had among ourselves, opposition to the Bush regime was the glue that held us all together. Now that the Democrats have control of the House, Senate, and White House, that glue has been stripped away. While the end of the Bush Administration has been good news for this country, it has created some (not entirely unexpected) challenges for Democratic Underground

Yeah see what happens when you base your website on hatred for a single man instead of real issues dumbass? 

[Traveshamockery]

The DUmmies will comply and behave.......................for 24 hours and then they will be back at it. 

 

[Oceander]

So, are they going to stop tombstoning conservatives who have the temerity to be themselves on DU?

[thundley4]

So, are they going to stop tombstoning conservatives who have the temerity to be themselves on DU?

That was sarcasm , right?

[GOBUCKS]

The problem with any plea for civility at the DUmp is that DUmmies are genetically uncivil. If Skimmer tries to limit his swarm of raving lunatics to decency, then "Name Removed" will easily move into the top spot among 2010 DUmmies, and the DUmp will become a desolate wasteland.

[kenth]

The problem with any plea for civility at the DUmp is that DUmmies are genetically uncivil. If Skimmer tries to limit his swarm of raving lunatics to decency, then "Name Removed" will easily move into the top spot among 2010 DUmmies, and the DUmp will become a desolate wasteland.

You can almost hear the squabbling that would happen too.

"Behave."

"Don't you tell a woman to behave!"

"How dare you try to shut GLBTRNPQSs up!!"

"Did the DLC put you up to this??!!"

"The Chimp is behind this!!!"

"JOOOOOOOOOOSSSSS!!!"

[AllosaursRus]

You can almost hear the squabbling that would happen too.

"Behave."

"Don't you tell a woman to behave!"

"How dare you try to shut GLBTRNPQSs up!!"

"Did the DLC put you up to this??!!"

"The Chimp is behind this!!!"

"JOOOOOOOOOOSSSSS!!!"

Skinner, is that you?

[zeitgeist]

The problem with any plea for civility at the DUmp is that DUmmies are genetically uncivil. If Skimmer tries to limit his swarm of raving lunatics to decency, then "Name Removed" will easily move into the top spot among 2010 DUmmies, and the DUmp will become a desolate wasteland.

And so will skinner's lunch bucket.  Civility has its price and those who keep the envelopes stuffed have little to fear.   Never bite the hand which feeds you.  DU is less a discussion forum and more a money making enterprise which makes his screed all the more hilarious.

Bring more buckets the miking machine is running on high.

[JohnnyReb]

Skinner speaks , gets ass kissed many times.

I guess that answers that question...."Why do DUmmies have bad breath?"

[Ralph Wiggum]

When do they ever NOT kiss $kimmer's ass?

[franksolich]

You go, Skins.

Sometimes the primitives need to be thrashed so as to encourage them to be better people, other times the primitives need thrashed for transgressions, but most of the time, the primitives need thrashed simply because they're primitives.

Anything my fellow alum does to kick the primitives around, reminding the primitives of their primitive state, has my enthusiastic enthusiasm.

But I am bothered by one thing, concerned as I am at all times for Skins's financial security--there's a fund-raiser coming up soon on Skins's island, and probably it would've been better for my fellow alum to collect first, and scold later.

[Karin]

Two PoPs respond:

CaliforniaPeggy  (1000+ posts)        Tue Feb-02-10 11:51 AM
9. I've already noticed this change, and I'm impressed.
 I alerted on a post the other day, and it was GONE in 15 minutes. I was astonished, and VERY pleased.

Keep up the great work!

Thanks for the best website on the internet!

K&R

 
 EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Tue Feb-02-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. I have, too.
 Thanks so much, Skinner.

The ass-kissing over there is revolting.  What's the purpose of doing that, anyway?  Skinner's not going to give any of them a cookie or anything.  I think if anybody here pulled such obsequiousness on our mods,  they'd get banned for being douchbags.  

[Ralph Wiggum]

The ass-kissing over there is revolting.  What's the purpose of doing that, anyway?  Skinner's not going to give any of them a cookie or anything.  I think if anybody here pulled such obsequiousness on our mods,  they'd get banned for being douchbags.  

I've mentioned this before, but I've never seen a forum where the ass-kissing of the admins & mods is so prevalent.

I noted this in the Crying in my Beer forum kind of as a joke, but another non-political forum that I moderated shut down their forums a few weeks ago.  Probably over 50% of the posters were downright hostile to the admins/mods.  Bitch, whine & moan was the common theme.  Which I think is part of the reason the company decided to scuttle the forums.

[Karin]

I guess it's because the DUmmies need, need, need the echo chamber that is the DU, and it's very easy to get banned.  Look at Greenbriar begging for a second life. 

I was a moderator once at a most controversial site.  It was for muslim apostates to speak their mind.  You can imagine the death threats.  One evil person posted the actual address and real name of one of the apostates, putting her life in peril.  We caught it, but it was up there for several minutes. 

[Ralph Wiggum]

I guess it's because the DUmmies need, need, need the echo chamber that is the DU, and it's very easy to get banned.  Look at Greenbriar begging for a second life.

Probably true.  I've just never quite understood the "hero worship" of the admins over there, and to a lesser extent, the mods.

Look, I moderate at CU (a sort of cousin of this site).  To be completely honest, there isn't a ton of work to do.  Yes, we delete spam & move threads on occasion.  I don't expect any praise.  I didn't sign up to help out as a moderator because I needed or wanted my ass kissed.  It's sort of a payback because I enjoy the site, and don't mind helping out.  I certainly appreciate the mods/admins here and the other places I post, but I'm pretty sure they feel the same way I do.  It's a volunteer job, it isn't my life, and I'm not doing it to be validated by all the "common" posters. 

[GOBUCKS]

CaliforniaPeggy  (1000+ posts)        Tue Feb-02-10 11:51 AM
9. I've already noticed this change, and I'm impressed.
I alerted on a post the other day, and it was GONE in 15 minutes. I was astonished, and VERY pleased.

Keep up the great work!

Thanks for the best website on the internet!

I'm not certain, but I think that may be her latest poem.