primitive on the verge of giving up

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7435427

Oh my.

Thanks to the individual who alerted me to this.

I dunno much about the computer business, but to the experts here, how much of this seems credible, and how much of it seems not so credible?

Lerkfish  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jan-10-10 05:50 PM
Original message
 
i'm on the verge of giving up on job hunting.

I"m not receiving unemployment, either.

last december, I was laid off. I took a job with a company that ended up being untenable, paychecks were bouncing, people's medical insurance was not paid by the company so their doctors refused to treat them....and they have sinced been sued by the state for refusing to pay the state the employee taxes that were being witheld from our paychecks.... in other words, a real piece of work place to work, so I had to quit before the cobra from being laid off ran out.

unemployment refused to put me on the rolls because I quit, even though it was the smartest thing for me to do.

that's just the background in order to point out that even though I"m unemployed, I know for sure I don't show up on any unemployment statistics put out by the govt.

ok, so why am I on the verge of giving up? I"m 50. The only industry that is hiring people doing what I do is run and owned by people usually 35 or less. Their staff's average age is usually around 25.

I rarely get a chance to interview.

I've thought about dying my grey hair, but honestly, you can tell I"m 50 regardless.

anyways, the last straw was last week. From my WORK and resume, they invited me to interview.

I showed up and waited in the reception area. One guy (about 30) walks in and contemptously (but in a whisper) asks the receptionist "who's THAT guy waiting for?".

The receptionist tells him I'm the interviewee.

The guy says nothing to me and walks back to his office. The receptionist takes me back and yes, you guessed it, that was the guy interviewing me. I was a bizarre interview. Instead of like a normal interview, where they spend some time chatting or asking about your philosophy about work, etc. Instead, it was immediately grilling me on the most complicated programming techniques. It was an obvious "gotcha" exercise, trying to trip me up rather than find out what I know.. he even used a term I was unfamiliar with, and when pressed to explain what he meant, it was clear he was using terminolgy particular to his OWN COMPANY, which of course I would not recognize. There were other clues....

I came with a portfolio booklet and a DVD with flash animations on it. At some times, when grilling me, I offered to show him examples on either one and he just said, "oh, we don't need to do that, just answer the question".

At one point, he says "well, I could ask you if you had any questions for me about the company, but that's probably a waste of our time".

Then, after only fifteen minutes, he says "well, I'll see you out" and he gives me the bum's rush out the door. It was all over so quickly, and THEY INVITED ME TO INTERVIEW, and I had driven quite a ways ( 2 hours) in a snow storm to get there.

At first I tried to go back over what I said to see if I made mistakes, but honestly, the interview was engineered against me the moment he saw me in the reception area.

This is not the first time this has happened over the last several months. but usually they are more diplomatic about it.

I had a very depressing drive home in the snow storm and realized this industry is never going to hire me.

so, I"m giving up for now. I'm going to concentrate on redoing my website, yet again, in the hopes of appearing more attractive to the youngsters...but I am giving up essentially.I"ve won international and national design awards, even a pulitzer, and this is what happens to me.

I understand how the elderly eskimos felt who were pushed out on ice floes to die

sorry for boring everyone, but I wanted to point out that I"m a non-statistic but I am real. The unemployment numbers are larger than any statistic will tell you.

Things are tough all over, for everybody.

But il Duce Bo promised us it would be all taken care of.

About a year ago.

And here we get a lying tits primitive wannabe:

lapfog_1  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jan-10-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
 
35. Same boat, same story.

I have an extensive kernel programming background, numerous published papers and 3 patents, founded my own company and sold it to a major player in the computer backup and storage field. My patents were all in an area called "de-duplication" ( a truly awful marketing jargon term ). I recently had a contract at IBM (they wanted me as an FTE but there was a hiring freeze). The contract was terminated 13 months ago as of now (they terminated all of their contractors). Since then, I've had just a few interviews (I'm over 50), one of the interviews was at a "leader" in the field of de-duplication (a field that *I* founded). When I sold my company in 2003, I signed a non-compete agreement so this was my first foray into the field again.

First round of interviews went well, they were all with the executive team. But, before they could make me an offer, they hired a new engineering manager, and she wanted to interview me as well. Most of my experience has been with Linux and Unix kernel stuff, all written in "C". She thought it was all written in C++. She wanted to know what C++ experience I had (none). Then she had me interview with a kid from her newly inherited department. He wanted me to write code on the white board to solve some made up computer science exercise (you have 10,000 values to sort, but any one of them, or all of them, can change value at any time - shared memory with another process or something, write code that sorts them and keeps them sorted with the minimum amount of time, and, no, you can't know which value changed). I have no idea of the point of the exercise, I couldn't do it.

Now, I've written numerous device drivers, and one complete file system (my own invention) and a Hierarchical Storage Management system (HSM - later used as the model for the standard for the field, and helped design many many other file systems (XFS from SGI, GFS, etc). I implemented the very first RAID-5 storage array in the world (my paper on that is published in the Journal of the ACM, I funded the UC Berkeley team that came up with the concept. I founded my own company in the area of de-duplication and successfully sold the technology and the patents to a major player (who I hope sues the pants off of these idiots) for $12.5 million (but I only got a small fraction - long story).

And I can't ever get an interview with anyone. Worse, when I do, some 25 year old fresh out from India is "flunking" me because of some bullshit trick computer science question (I also taught Computer Science for 5 years as an undergrad... the only undergrad at my University to ever have the title "Instructor" - because without the PhD they couldn't call me "professor").

And, I was Chief Scientist at NASA for almost 10 years specializing in large scale computer storage systems.

Now, I can't even get an interview.

I tried to tell the de-dup company to "google" me and see my patents, my published code, my authored peer reviewed articles, or the IEEE standards committees that I've served on. Or to call any number of "legends" in the computer field and see if they know me. Quite a few of them do, starting with Van Jacobson (of the reduced TCP/IP stack fame) who briefly worked for me under contract to NASA, Dennis Ritchie who corresponded with me after my paper on RAID was published... and who made me a nervous wreck by sitting in the front row when I gave a lecture on the topic. Mike Muuss, the inventor of "ping", who I knew until he passed away in a car accident now 10 years ago, Terry Slaterly, the inventor of "ttcp" who was Mike's pal when they were early proponents of porting Unix to supercomputers, and I've met many many more, including Seymour Cray (also died in a car accident) who answered the phone late on night at Cray Research (the company I worked for at the time had serial number 7 of the Cray-1s) and I chatted with him about the inclusion of various instructions in the Cray microcode (I was doing a nearly completely Boolean Chess move generator in the Cray-1's vector instruction set and had it down to about 40 or 50 assembly language vector instructions (to generate a complete set of moves for one side - aka a "ply") except for one instruction which was not vectorized. So I wanted to know "why". He was very kind and talked with me for more than 30 minutes.

All this, and I have to write code on the white board to solve a bullshit problem that nobody will ever need to solve in the real world, so that I can work for someone that believes that the majority of the Linux kernel is written in C++. Sheesh.

**** it all.

Oh, I haven't collected one dime of unemployment, even though I was "riffed" from my IBM contract, because in this bullshit state you have to be a resident for 1 year before collecting, and I moved here to work for IBM and was with them for about 8 months.

Lerkfish  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jan-10-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
 
40. sounds very familiar... I was one of the first artists to introduce computer graphics into journalism... back when the macplus didn't even have a hard drive. I've been using illustrator for over 20 years. When I say that to these young guys they try to say it hasn't existed that long, and I have to correct them that in fact it has. I think its because they were in diapers when it was first available.

lapfog_1  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jan-10-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #40

73. Back in 1985 I did a stint as group manager for a CAD company (architecture). We had texture mapping and fractal algorithms for creating realistic trees, grass, shrubs, etc. We had a linked catalog of steelcase furniture where you could design your new office, outfit it with furniture and stuff, texture map actual fabric sample and wood grain pattern onto the furniture in accordance with what was available in the catalog, and then take a virtual walk around your new building, including the views of the surrounding landscape and other buildings from, say, your new corner office window. All that and a seasonal adjusted "shadow map" of what your new building would shade and what views would be blocked by erecting your building. Plus a complete HVAC design (automated) and fire protection design (also automated).
After you decided what furniture you wanted in what office, our software would create the order forms and place the order at exactly the right time for delivery (including schedule slippage) so you could move right in. Office equipment too.

In 1985.

For about $120,000 (including a very nice pen plotter for creating blueprint drawings).

Of course, in 1986 or so, someone could buy Autocad and a $10,000 PC with "professional graphics card (640 x 480 and 256 colors)" and we were out of business in a year.

At one point I had about 15 people working in my group, many of them graphics programmers and system programmers. When they asked me to select a third group for layoffs (another 4 people), I gave them just one name.

lapfog_1  (1000+ posts)        Mon Jan-11-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #186

190. It's getting close to cardboard box...

I have a small room at my sister's house (which I don't have to pay for since I helped her buy this place back when I had money and she didn't). But, I can't go anywhere (no money for gas), I can't do anything (except post here at DU and listen to internet radio), and I eat only what groceries that my sister can afford (and, recently, she is not doing well either).

Pretty soon, it will be "will program for food" on a cardboard sign by freeway.

I no longer care if the "bastards win" (for me, they've won already).

No, there isn't much joy in my life.

lildreamer316  (1000+ posts)        Mon Jan-11-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
 
167. Jesus Christ. Are you SERIOUS?

"I was Chief Scientist at NASA for almost 10 years .."

I cannot F-n BELIEVE no one is giving you a job, and they are treating you this way. Along with Lerkfish too; of course.

The best minds of this country are going to waste. Such utter bullshit.

lapfog_1  (1000+ posts)        Mon Jan-11-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #167
 
181. I became too specialized and didn't keep up with more current skill sets (java, Ruby on rails, XML, .NET, etc).

I'm an old(er) kernel hacker, and there just isn't that much kernel work being done anymore.

Plus, I'm pretty sure they look at my resume and think "This guy will leave in less than 6 months if something in his field turns up, plus there isn't any way for us to afford him" (my last salary was over $150K a year, I'm now applying for $60K a year jobs).

And they have a point, I probably would.

[miskie]

Wow - DU is just full of Unemployable Ninja Layer Scientist Hackers, isn't it ?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

So if I'm reading this right:

In a labor market with a serious over-supply issue it is unfair for companies to ask if the interviewee actually has experience with the programming languages used for their projects. They should just take the first person through the door rather than look for the statistical certainty that some other interviewee won't have to be trained and brought up to speed. So obviously it is ageism.

Am I tracking this?

[USA4ME]

Lerkfish

ok, so why am I on the verge of giving up? I"m 50.

Yeah, but I've read your political opinions and mentally you're almost 6.  You should be thankful you ever had a job, period.

If you're 50 or older and still a lib, it's because you're stuck on stupid.  Grow up.

.

[The Village Idiot]

lol.

These guys were advanced in 1980, haven't upgraded since.

Does anyone really think a Chief Scientist at NASA is now broke and flipping pancakes somewhere or something?

They owned multi-million dollar businesses and now can't find a job.

Have these guys never heard of money management?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Have these guys never heard of money management?

You do know we're talking about liberals, don't you?

[Aaron Burr]

Personally, I'm just looking for somebody to get me coffee.

[Traveshamockery]

Personally, I'm just looking for somebody to get me coffee.

Bill Clinton might be able to help you find somebody for that job. 

 

[NHSparky]

Hmmm...I'm well in my 40's and I doubt I will have a problem landing a job at any utility, either generation, transmission, or distribution, because I do know my fundamentals, yet take my job seriously and don't come in with some "know-it-all-give-a-shit" attitude.

I'm good, but I've never thought my shit didn't stink, DUmmies.  Maybe you should try a similar approach.  Interviews are to determine how well YOU fit THEIR needs, not the other way around.

[GOBUCKS]

As an undergrad, I invented dirt. I hold the patent for topsoil, and was on the team that discovered fertilizer. But there just aren't any jobs for a soil scientist. Now, I can't even get a job in the earthmoving industry. Damn Bush.

[BEG]

This is not the first time this has happened over the last several months. but usually they are more diplomatic about it.

Maybe it's you and not your age.

[GOBUCKS]

This leapfrog douchenozzle takes the cake. Second most decorated geek in history. Invents the computer. Sells his company for $12.5M. Ran NASA for ten years. Was making $150K until 12 months ago. After just 12 months, he's in a charity room, planning to start begging on a freeway exit. Now there's a guy who was apparently taking financial advice from TwixVoy. Fat city to hobo jungle in 12 months? Hard to believe, even in this 0conomy. He must be another victim of those villains at the Anchorage Petroleum Club.

[JohnnyReb]

As an undergrad, I invented dirt. I hold the patent for topsoil, and was on the team that discovered fertilizer. But there just aren't any jobs for a soil scientist. Now, I can't even get a job in the earthmoving industry. Damn Bush.

Seriously, I owned an earthmoving business....now I can't even track mud into the house.

Could be worse...just look at Al Gore. He invented the internet and now he's selling carbon credits door-to-door.

[Ralph Wiggum]

To quote the immortal Judge Smails:

"The world needs ditch-diggers, too!"

[chitownchica]

So this guy invents deduplication, plus was some big wig at NASA and he can't find a job?  If that person had any smarts, he'd be living large off his profits.  I'm not sure who came up with the idea of deduplication (here's an article from NetApp for those interested), but let's just say I think this guy is full of it.

http://blogs.netapp.com/drdedupe/2009/09/who-invented-data-deduplication.html 

[Ralph Wiggum]

So this guy invents deduplication, plus was some big wig at NASA and he can't find a job?  If that person had any smarts, he'd be living large off his profits.  I'm not sure who came up with the idea of deduplication (here's an article from NetApp for those interested), but let's just say I think this guy is full of it.

http://blogs.netapp.com/drdedupe/2009/09/who-invented-data-deduplication.html 

You will learn that the DUmmies are usually full of crap.  If you haven't already.

[chitownchica]

I wonder why this guy didn't get the job?

I believe in you Lerk.
 Edited on Sun Jan-10-10 05:01 PM by YOY
Don't give up. This world is full of assholes.

I (in my 35 year old way) was in your shoes a few years ago. The contemptuous whispers still happened even though I was in the age range you think makes things easier and I had a few interviews that were over before they began. One so very rudely so that I had no problem thanking the guy for "wasting my ****ing time in his quest for a subject matter expert with 10 more years experience for a 35K salary position."

Of course I didn't get the position...but there wasn't jack I could have done to get it...and this guy was a jackass that nobody would want to work for in the first place. THe end result being a boost in my self esteem...a needed one.

There is always next time.
 

 

[chitownchica]

You will learn that the DUmmies are usually full of crap.  If you haven't already.

Ralph- I learn that each and every day when I go over to the DUmp for entertainment

[Ralph Wiggum]

Ralph- I learn that each and every day when I go over to the DUmp for entertainment

Then you are learning well, chica.  I found the DUmp through listening to Rush on WLS, and subsequently ended up on these boards.

[chitownchica]

Then you are learning well, chica.  I found the DUmp through listening to Rush on WLS, and subsequently ended up on these boards.

I found out about DU through Dummie Funnies.  For an ironic twist, I found out about this site through the Tangerine LaBamba fiasco over on the dump. Haha- bet they would fall over if they knew I found out about this site through them!

[kenth]

It's just amazing, all that BS and the dummies just eat it up. He claims to have sold his company to Quantum. So a quick look shows that Quantum acquired a company called Sanlight in 2003. Sanlight was founded by a Mark Kaleem, who is not a "kernel hacker" but a guy with degrees in commerce and economics. As for the raid research supposedly funded by the dummie, this was led by David A Patterson at Berkeley. There is no mention at all of the Patterson group being funded by any entity other than the University.

But even without the simple searches, how could anyone possibly believe that a Chief Scientist at NASA, who founded a multi-million dollar company, sold for millions, who founded an entire sector of data storage technology, and is such a genius that leaders in the various computing fields have taken his advice is now living in his sister's home and unable to procure a job as a simple coder?

The stripper actually believes this BS. 

Then again, that is probably the entire point. 

[whiffleball]

Maybe Skinner can employ the Lerking Primitive to watch rival forums for him since he posts at every lunatic site on the Internets.  Mostly he just whines and complains about Skinner on all of them, but Skins has been gracious enough to keep him in the asylum.

ETA:  Holy Moly!!  This is a Pulitzer Prize winner!!  Is he seriously trying to outdo TiT?

[formerlurker]

I rarely get a chance to interview.

.......

This is not the first time this has happened over the last several months. but usually they are more diplomatic about it.

I am so confused.  Rarely get a chance to interview vs. not the first time this has happened over the last several months?   What to believe.  Hmmmm.

[Karin]

Pulitzer?  Chief Scientist at NASA?  Oh, come on.  Are they really eating this up over there?  Yes indeed, this is Tit material. 

[diesel driver]

Quote
I rarely get a chance to interview.
.......
Quote
This is not the first time this has happened over the last several months. but usually they are more diplomatic about it.
 .......
I am so confused.  Rarely get a chance to interview vs. not the first time this has happened over the last several months?   What to believe.  Hmmmm.

Me too.  Either this guy is showing up looking and smelling like something that just stepped off the back of a garbage truck, or he just oozes "the stupid"....