Author Topic: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’  (Read 12987 times)

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Offline Alpha Mare

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Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« on: October 23, 2009, 09:43:22 AM »
Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Treasury Department on Thursday ordered seven companies that received billions of dollars in government bailouts to halve total compensation for their top executives. But the big reductions will not apply to pay earned before November.

Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve unveiled a proposal Thursday that for the first time would police banks' pay policies to ensure they don't encourage employees to take reckless gambles like those that contributed to the financial crisis.

Unlike the Treasury plan, the Fed proposal would cover thousands of banks, including many that never received a bailout.

 Speaking earlier at the White House, President Barack Obama welcomed Treasury's decision and said Americans' values are offended by excessive paychecks for executives whose companies were bailed out by taxpayers. He urged Congress to pass legislation to give shareholders a voice in executive pay packages.

Smaller companies and those that have repaid the bailout money, including Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co., are not affected by the plan.

Chrysler Group LLC CEO Sergio Marchionne and other Fiat executives who work for both Chrysler and Fiat were exempted from the pay cuts as part of the agreement with the U.S. government for Fiat to take over management control of Chrysler and get a 20 percent stake in the company.

 Elsewhere, Freddie Mac is giving its chief financial officer compensation worth as much as $5.5 million, including a $2 million signing bonus. The government-controlled mortgage finance company doesn't have to follow the executive compensation rules because it is being paid outside the TARP.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9BGDDN02&show_article=1

They'll choose who "offends" our values and who doesn't.

Edited- forgot link.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 09:46:38 AM by Alpha Mare »
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 09:50:44 AM »
Don't look now, but the Fed is extending their grasp of control of banking.

Quote
Fed outlines plan to police bank pay
The Federal Reserve would police banks' pay policies to ensure they don't encourage employees to take reckless gambles like those that contributed to the financial crisis, according to a proposal unveiled Thursday.
Unlike a Treasury plan to slash pay at certain companies that were bailed out with large sums of taxpayer money, the Fed proposal would cover thousands of banks, including many that never received a bailout.
Link

At what point will we see an end to this BS? Why not set pay limits on plumbers and electricians, college professors?

Offline BadCat

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 09:54:07 AM »
Don't look now, but the Fed is extending their grasp of control of banking.
 Link

At what point will we see an end to this BS? Why not set pay limits on plumbers and electricians, college professors?

Chuckie Schumer is already talking about this.
They want to limit the maximum salary to $1,000,000 / year, but athletes and movie stars will be exempt from that limit.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 09:59:45 AM »
Chuckie Schumer is already talking about this.
They want to limit the maximum salary to $1,000,000 / year, but athletes and movie stars will be exempt from that limit.

Maybe it's time for a limit on how much congress critters can make. Not just from their salaries, but total from investments and whatnot. That would put an end to people like Rangel not knowing how much they are cheating on their taxes.

Offline Chump

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2009, 10:03:08 AM »
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9BGDDN02&show_article=1

They'll choose who "offends" our values and who doesn't.

Edited- forgot link.



You know what?  It does offend me that corporations receiving taxpayer money to stay afloat are paying top executives obscene amounts of money, throwing lavish parties, and so on and so forth.  That's why I was against the bailouts to begin with, because now the public has a vested interest in what goes on at private corporations.  I also have no pity; the corporations receiving aid never should have accepted it in the first place.

These bailouts were planned with this end in mind.
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.   ~Robert A. Heinlein

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Offline franksolich

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 10:03:28 AM »
Well, I dunno.

Shelley-0 offended my values by being named a do-nothing hospital official and getting paid--what, more than a million bucks?--for it.  
apres moi, le deluge

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Offline Alpha Mare

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2009, 10:18:36 AM »
You know what?  It does offend me that corporations receiving taxpayer money to stay afloat are paying top executives obscene amounts of money, throwing lavish parties, and so on and so forth.  That's why I was against the bailouts to begin with, because now the public has a vested interest in what goes on at private corporations.  I also have no pity; the corporations receiving aid never should have accepted it in the first place.

These bailouts were planned with this end in mind.

I agree on companies that received a bailout.  But this won't stop there, as the Fed plan shows, or in the case of Freddie Mac. This is only the beginning.
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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 10:19:41 AM »
Chuckie Schumer is already talking about this.
They want to limit the maximum salary to $1,000,000 / year, but athletes and movie stars will be exempt from that limit.

How does Hollywood vote again?  :whatever:
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Offline Chump

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 10:26:14 AM »
I agree on companies that received a bailout.  But this won't stop there, as the Fed plan shows, or in the case of Freddie Mac. This is only the beginning.

Oh certainly.  Give a fascist an inch and he'll drag you a mile over shattered glass.
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.   ~Robert A. Heinlein

...let the cannibal who snarls that the freedom of man's mind was needed to create an industrial civilization, but is not needed to maintain it, be given an arrowhead and bearskin, not a university chair of economics.
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 10:29:34 AM »
And they called the Republicans power-hungry? Oh my.

and you guys are right, this is just the beginning. America will never be the same if we don't do something to stop this madness.
I can see November 2 from my house!!!

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Offline bkg

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2009, 11:13:41 AM »

So when do they decide that a network administrator makes too much money? Or a sales guy? Or anyone who receives a tax break, or stimulus money?

This fawked and unconstitutional no matter how you sell it.

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2009, 11:15:45 AM »
O-dingdong offends my values yet I still see he's around shredding the REAL values of most Americans.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2009, 11:36:42 AM »
Don't look now, but the Fed is extending their grasp of control of banking.
 Link

At what point will we see an end to this BS? Why not set pay limits on plumbers and electricians, college professors?

Oh, don't you fret your pretty little head on that--it'll be here on you and me soon enough.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2009, 11:41:05 AM »
Quote
Speaking earlier at the White House, President Barack Obama welcomed Treasury's decision and said Americans' values are offended by excessive paychecks for executives whose companies were bailed out by taxpayers. He urged Congress to pass legislation to give shareholders a voice in executive pay packages.

I'm offended by the salaries and benefits received by our congresscritters.  I say they should be determined by the voters (shareholders) in this country.  We can pay them exactly what they are worth....from state coffers, not fed tax dollars.
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Offline bkg

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2009, 11:46:23 AM »
I'm offended by the salaries and benefits received by our congresscritters.  I say they should be determined by the voters (shareholders) in this country.  We can pay them exactly what they are worth....from state coffers, not fed tax dollars.


Agree with this eleventy-million percent.

Offline thundley4

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2009, 11:48:11 AM »
I'm offended by the salaries and benefits received by our congresscritters.  I say they should be determined by the voters (shareholders) in this country.  We can pay them exactly what they are worth....from state coffers, not fed tax dollars.


Next up: they'll pass a law requiring employers to let the employees set their own pay, work hours, sick days, holidays and vacation time. Oh wait, that might be thrown in with the card check bill.

Offline 5412

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2009, 08:23:07 PM »
You know what?  It does offend me that corporations receiving taxpayer money to stay afloat are paying top executives obscene amounts of money, throwing lavish parties, and so on and so forth.  That's why I was against the bailouts to begin with, because now the public has a vested interest in what goes on at private corporations.  I also have no pity; the corporations receiving aid never should have accepted it in the first place.

These bailouts were planned with this end in mind.

Hi,

While I agree with you in theory, I have some points to make.  It is the stockholders, (the owners of the company) who should decide how much the executives get paid.  HP has as part of their corporation documents that all executive pay has to be approved by the stockholders; whereas the directors of many major corporations decide compensation.  If the government really wanted to do what is right they should pass a law that all executive compensation must be approved by the stockholders.

Second, many firms took bailout money after they were forced to buy banks, brokerage firms etc. that were failing.....but the government pressured them into buying them.  If they government really wanted to fix things they could easily pass a law that says banks must be in the banking business, not the investment business, and brokerage houses do the opposite.  The primary cause of the entire bust is the government forcing banks into making loans to people who could not pay them back.  Thank Barney Frank, Pelosi, Reed, Dodd and BO who helped Acorn raise hell in all the bank lobbies.  Lending money to people who cannot pay it back is just stupid, unless you are the government and want to punish the taxpayers by pushing a stupid social agenda.

And finally, the more the government fixes salaries, the more the best and brightest will go elsewhere.....that is something we do not need.  How does the government that is quadrupling the national debt justify salary increases for all government employees when the rest of the country is being laid off or taking huge salary cuts?

How about passing a law mandating that the congressional retirement plan be dumped and all members of congress go on social security like the rest of us?

How about a law mandating that all government employees including congress, the executive branch etc. must be covered under the health care bill in congress, they are allowed no special treatment?

The market will fix itself if the government would get the hell out of the way.

regards,
5412

Offline Chump

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2009, 08:58:32 PM »
...

The market will fix itself if the government would get the hell out of the way.


Sir, I completely agree in particular with this sentiment, but also with your overall post.  I also appreciated how you briefly touched on the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act via the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, and the damage it's wrought on the financial industry.

Government interference in everything from the banking industry to the real estate industry has resulted in our current situation, and yet our stupid government stupidly thinks more government interference is the only thing that will save us.  Stupid is as stupid does, I suppose.
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.   ~Robert A. Heinlein

...let the cannibal who snarls that the freedom of man's mind was needed to create an industrial civilization, but is not needed to maintain it, be given an arrowhead and bearskin, not a university chair of economics.
~Atlas Shrugged, Galt's speech

Offline 5412

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2009, 10:01:33 PM »
Sir, I completely agree in particular with this sentiment, but also with your overall post.  I also appreciated how you briefly touched on the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act via the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, and the damage it's wrought on the financial industry.

Government interference in everything from the banking industry to the real estate industry has resulted in our current situation, and yet our stupid government stupidly thinks more government interference is the only thing that will save us.  Stupid is as stupid does, I suppose.

Hi,

This came in today, part of a report I get called Casey's Daily dispatch.  Thought you might appreciate it.

regards,
5412


Lessons Not Learned

Dear Reader,

This morning, Steve Hanke, professor of Applied Economics at John Hopkins University and a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, sent me his latest article for GlobeAsia, titled "Hu vs. Sarkozy." In it, he contrasts the socialist president of France with the rather more capitalist attitude of China's leader.

His theme - that the more a government meddles, the more it retards economic recovery - will strike no new chords with you, dear reader. Yet his concise language and clarity of thought in setting the historical context for where we are in the current crisis is well worth a quick read. And I quote:

Just reflect for a moment on the most frequently repeated lessons drawn from the Great Depression (1929-33). According to most accounts, the stock market crash of October 1929 was the spark that sent the economy spiraling downward. How could this be? After all, by November 1929, the stock market had started to recover, and by mid-April 1930, it had reached its pre-crash level. Contrary to the received wisdom, massive government failure - not the stock market crash - pushed the United States into the Great Depression. It was the Federal Reserve that ushered in that terrible nightmare. During the course of the Great Depression, the money supply contracted by 25%. This sent the economy into a deflationary death spiral, with the price level falling 25%.

The Federal Reserve was not the only culprit. In the name of saving jobs, the Smoot-Hawley trade bill became law in June 1930. That intervention increased U.S. tariffs by over 50%. It was quickly followed by the imposition of retaliatory tariffs in 60 other countries. In consequence, world trade collapsed and the unemployment rate in the U.S. surged from 7.8% in June 1930 to 24.7% in 1933.

In addition to the Smoot-Hawley tariff wedge, the Hoover administration and the Democratic Congress imposed the largest tax increase in U.S. history, with the top tax rate on income jumping from 25% to 63% in 1932. If these government policies weren't destructive enough, the Roosevelt administration's New Deal created regime uncertainty because major policies were being changed so rapidly. As a result, investors were afraid to commit funds to new projects and private investment collapsed.

Far from saving the patient, government intervention came close to killing it. But you wouldn't know it from listening to the current discourse about the Panic of 2008-09. Indeed, politicians and pundits throughout the world have unfortunately dialed back to the Great Depression and drawn on the false lessons of history for policy guidance and justifications for their mega-interventions.

David again. With that history lesson in mind, let's do a quick tally of how things now stand, shall we? 

The Fed. Once again, the Fed is right in the middle of things - but this time around energetically expanding the monetary base in the hope that it will fix all that ails.   

As you look at the chart of the monetary base just below, you'll see that after an initial round of explosive growth, the Fed slowed things down a bit. Interestingly, however, the latest data show the resumption of a steep upwards trajectory. This can be attributed to the Fed attempting to keep mortgage rates down -- and therefore the housing market from a final smack-down -- through accelerated purchasing of massive quantities of mortgage-backed securities. Regardless, whichever way you look at it, this is intervention writ large.




Taxes. Even without the slate of new and proposed taxes already in the works, simply allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire next year represents one of the largest tax increases in U.S. history. According to the Heritage Foundation, the resulting increase in tax bills will ring in at $2.4 trillion. Have a nice day, because next year the taxes on all your nice days are going up.

Trade Wars. To date, the administration has poured cement into the free-trade bucket through the "Buy American" provisions of the stimulus package and, more recently, tariffs on Chinese products. And, by doing so, it has set an easy-to-understand example for the world to emulate. 

Far more potentially damaging, however, has been the deliberate decision to sacrifice the dollar in an effort to avoid the crash-bang-value discovery that would have occurred had the market been allowed its hard crash. As things now stand, we have the Chinese matching our dollar decline step by step, causing other export-reliant countries to follow suit or to begin making angry noises about fair play and the need to level the playing field.

In short, the U.S. government's competitive currency devaluation is moving the world briskly down the road toward the same raising of trade barricades engendered by Mssrs. Smoot and Hawley.

Legislative Limbo. From trying to kick-start a dying, union-dominated, heavy manufacturing industry. to padding the nests of some Wall Street brights while stripping those of others. to micro-adjusting bank fees. to playing doctor. to trying to legislate global climate. to. to. it becomes near impossible for even the most attentive investor to know where things stand and therefore, how to invest. 

Sell my coal stocks? Buy nuclear? Or sell nuclear and buy ethanol? Invest in car companies, or steer clear because without Uncle Sam they'll fail anyway? But what if the good uncle continues giving? Then again, how long can Uncle Sam keep giving? And where's he going to get the money from? Buy real estate? But what if interest rates rise due to all the money being thrown about willy-nilly? Short commercial real estate? Or buy because the feds will step in, wallets open? Arrgh. ugh. gads!

I have, on occasion, been accused of being overly negative on the near-term outlook of the U.S. economy. I confess to that attitude, but only because unless and until the government stops pushing forward its latest round of economic "assistance," topped off with a large dollop of regulatory "relief," the way forward for the U.S. economy seems destined to first taking several steps back -- back to a point where the lessons of the Great Depression are once again learned.

In the meantime, we have to grab for what straws we can - prominently including precious metals, which will benefit as the dollar weakens, as it must, and which, held close to hand, have no counterparty liability. That and focusing on deep values in well-run companies, which, should you be unable to identify at any given moment, should leave you happy to remain liquid until such values again make themselves apparent

Offline Chump

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2009, 10:13:53 PM »
...

Sir, I very much enjoyed reading that.  I was initially crafting responses to key points, but the article was so appropriate and so well-written that anything I would've contributed would have been redundant.  I question the author's assertion that we're about to see a dollar collapse, but that's a minor point in the face of the coming economic onslaught.

Thank you for sharing.
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.   ~Robert A. Heinlein

...let the cannibal who snarls that the freedom of man's mind was needed to create an industrial civilization, but is not needed to maintain it, be given an arrowhead and bearskin, not a university chair of economics.
~Atlas Shrugged, Galt's speech

Offline 5412

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2009, 06:40:36 AM »
Sir, I very much enjoyed reading that.  I was initially crafting responses to key points, but the article was so appropriate and so well-written that anything I would've contributed would have been redundant.  I question the author's assertion that we're about to see a dollar collapse, but that's a minor point in the face of the coming economic onslaught.

Thank you for sharing.

Hi,

I feel very strongly the dollar is going to collapse.  If you look at the Alinsky playbook, not so sure that is not what BO wants.  The theory is when it does, anarchy is next and then he and Acorn can come in and save the day.  They are banking on the idea that people will gladly give up freedom for security.

I have having the best investment year in my life because I am in metals and foreign currencies.  What really scares me is the number of folks my age who are going to see their entire life savings eaten up by inflation.  I keep trying to tell them that they will see $100,000 Camry's before they die and they just don't get it.

Hopefully you are hedging your bets, there are several ETF's and other ways to do so.

regards,
5412

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2009, 07:01:17 AM »
I agree on companies that received a bailout...
But many of those companies are being run by execs that were brought in AFTER the mltdown to help rebuild or gracefully close those companies.

They're getting ****ed for helping.

Many more banks never wanted bailout money but were forced to take it...now they're being unished too.

It isn't even a punishment, it's just a plain powergrab.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Chris_

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2009, 07:13:16 AM »
But many of those companies are being run by execs that were brought in AFTER the mltdown to help rebuild or gracefully close those companies.

They're getting ****ed for helping.

Many more banks never wanted bailout money but were forced to take it...now they're being unished too.

It isn't even a punishment, it's just a plain powergrab.
War has been declared on "the rich".  Success is being punished.  It's just not fair for one person to have more than another.  [/DUmp mode]
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2009, 07:22:58 AM »
War has been declared on "the rich".  Success is being punished.  It's just not fair for one person to have more than another.  [/DUmp mode]
They dems/fascists did everything they could both legal and illegal to destroy Joe the Plumber because he asked a simple question and Obama slipped-up and told the truth.

They hate Joe but they love Obama for the exact same reasons. These libs know what they are doing is fascist in nature because they WANT to do it but they just don't want people to know that is what they are doing. Conservatives by contrast are proud to trumpet their policy agenda.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2009, 07:45:19 AM »
They dems/fascists did everything they could both legal and illegal to destroy Joe the Plumber because he asked a simple question and Obama slipped-up and told the truth.

They hate Joe but they love Obama for the exact same reasons. These libs know what they are doing is fascist in nature because they WANT to do it but they just don't want people to know that is what they are doing. Conservatives by contrast are proud to trumpet their policy agenda.

This inherent dishonesty is one of the major reasons I went form more left-leaning to more right-leaning the further in my 20's I got. This hidden agenda of liberals disgusts me and is underhanded and it takes advantage of people that liberals claim to champion(they don't). It plays on their simple ordering upstairs(and ordering that could be corrected by teaching what needs taught in schools including critical thinking and dispensing with the race/class/gender wars). Liberalism banks on enough people being blissfully ignorant to get to its ends and on playing to the lowest common denominator in the human playbook(jealousy and greed). Turned me off the more I thought about it over the years.

**And no, I'm not suggesting everyone is exempt from jealousy and greed, but they are instincts that can be modified and encouraged towards positive ends. I think capitalism with some regulation to reign in the naughtiness on both ends is a positive end of people and business fulfilling first their needs and then their wants and both 'animals' survive and prosper in it. I could go on and on, but I have to shuffle off and get some remaining elements for Halloween costumes.