Obama: Excessive pay ‘does offend our values’

[Alpha Mare]

The DUmmy Solution:

Union Yes  (1000+ posts)      Fri Oct-23-09 10:02 PM
Original message
A plan for controlling CEO/Exec pay AND bonuses.
 If a CEO/Exec makes more than 7 times the lowest paid employee of said company then tax that CEO's income over the 7 times threshhold. Tax the income/comp over the threshhold at 90%.

Example:
A CEO is compensated $1 million for the year. The lowest paid employee makes $20,000 in that same year.

7 X 20000= $140,000

Meaning that said CEO's income from $140,001 to his/her $1 million total salary/comp would be taxed at a 90% rate.

His/her first $140,000 in earnings would be taxed at the normal marginal rate.(Which also needs to be raised on the superwealthy.)

Profits need to be divided equally among all workers of a company. Not just handed out to the top company officials.

American business has become one gigantic ponzi scheme that redistributes the wealth upward to the top income earners, the super wealthy.

This ponzi scheme has led us into the great American shame known as the wealth divide.

This ponzi scheme has left the remaining 80% of us Americans broke. With rampant unemployment and falling wages. Our economy can no longer sustain itself.

The fact that 80% of us are broke is why our economy is crumbling.

How can a nations economy sustain when 80% of the people can't afford to spend to support and grow our economy.

America has gone broke due to the greed of the super wealthy.

The ponzi scheme has got to stop.

Capitalism is Un-American.
 

Anyone remember Namaste Solar, the employee-owned company where Obama signed the Stimulus Bill?  Even with government subsidies, the company admits they were failing.  Now they receive cash grants for each project, thanks to their buddy in the WH.

[Chump]

Capitalism is Un-American.

The tenets of proper capitalism mirror the tenets of the American Republic.    You could not possibly be more wrong, DUmmie.

[The Village Idiot]

Hollywood.

People getting paid million to play pretend.

[Alpha Mare]

War has been declared on "the rich".  Success is being punished.  It's just not fair for one person to have more than another.  [/DUmp mode]

He based his whole campaign on 'division'- rich/poor, have/have not.

[NHSparky]

He based his whole campaign on 'division'- rich/poor, have/have not.

Nowhere is that made clearer than HERE.

And if you look at CNN's exit polling, you'd see that.  Among people with family incomes at or above $50K, the vote is damn near tied.  Below 50K, it goes overwhelmingly to Obama--in fact, the lower the income, the more likely one is to be an Obama voter.

Class warfare, indeed--and he played it to the hilt.  But what happens when he can't deliver?

[5412]

The tenets of proper capitalism mirror the tenets of the American Republic.    You could not possibly be more wrong, DUmmie.

Hi,

In America we have equal OPPORTUNITY, and no guarantee of equal SUCCESS.  Like it or not there is a basic economic law of supply and demand.  If supply is short and demand is high, the price goes up, reverse the situation, the price goes down.  Guess what?  That too, for most anyway, is the basis for how we are paid.  If there were another 100,000 heart surgeons in the country, heart surgery would be a lot cheaper.

No human being on this planet should be guaranteed a damn thing just for showing up, and even more for seniority.  Let me give you an example.  I have  a friend who took over a business that was doing a billion dollars in sales.  Two years after he took over, he took them to $1,400,000,000 in sales, a 40% increase, plus he increased their gross profit margin by a full 2%.  

If you have to figure that out, 2% of $1.4 billion is $28 million in increased profits as a result of his leadership.  At the end of the year he got a million dollar bonus from top management.  Think he didn't earn it???  Not too many folks are capable of doing that kind of thing but he is energetic, innovative, and a very smart guy who knows how to lead and motivate people.  Because some union schlep makes $40,000/ year should have no bearing on what my friend made.  If the union guy does not like it, or thinks it is unfair, let him go back to college, get his degree, work 80+ hours a week like my friend did for 25 years before he even had the chance to do what he did.

And guess what, I do not begrudge Hollywood stars for the money they make.  You want to make a movie, you find a top star and pay him/her $15 million to play in the movie.  It grosses $150 million and you end up making $50 million or more........I would call you a smart businessman.  I know for a fact that George Steinbrenner nets a $50 million profit with the Yankees, despite a $200 million dollar payroll.  I do not begrudge any of his players for their high salaries, they make their owner rich.
Better they should get it than Steinbrenner make even more money.

If folks do not like it, quit, get a better job, go into a different field, start your own business.  Hell Colonel Sanders made a billion dollars after he was 70 years old by packaging his mama's recipe for fried chicken.....

Bottom line is simple.  Because there are those who achieve, you have two choices, take from them and reward the underachievers, or encourage others to achieve, get rich and create even more jobs for Americans.  Tis the latter process that has made us the greatest, most innovative country in the world.  Our standard of living for all, even our poorest, is the envy of every country in the world.  Our middle class live like kings compared to most other societies.

I have had it with the socialist, communist bullshit.  It is a failed economic system, has never worked and never will.

regards,
5412

[Chump]

Unfortunately, 5412, we have passed some sort of event horizon with regard to the socialism/communism model.  Whereas a few decades ago one would vehemently deny any charge of favoring that lunacy, now we have "intellectual leaders" openly agitating for it.  Even worse is that capitalism, the lifeblood of any free and prosperous society, is viewed as some sort of necessary evil, if not outright condemned by the short-sighted left.  We have barely a semblance of true, free-market capitalism currently.  And yet, any economic problem or failure is somehow viewed as resulting from the evils of capitalism as opposed to the oppressive presence of an incompetent government in areas it has no business interfering.

We are headed to such great ruin in such a short amount of time that by the time the government gets through with us, the people will be begging for socialism, all the while ignoring the government's role in our failure in the first place.

And let's not forget, the only thing that ever saves any socialist utopia is a measured application of capitalism.  Socialism is entirely predicated on destruction, so why is anyone surprised when destruction is the final result, every single time?

[5412]

Unfortunately, 5412, we have passed some sort of event horizon with regard to the socialism/communism model.  Whereas a few decades ago one would vehemently deny any charge of favoring that lunacy, now we have "intellectual leaders" openly agitating for it.  Even worse is that capitalism, the lifeblood of any free and prosperous society, is viewed as some sort of necessary evil, if not outright condemned by the short-sighted left.  We have barely a semblance of true, free-market capitalism currently.  And yet, any economic problem or failure is somehow viewed as resulting from the evils of capitalism as opposed to the oppressive presence of an incompetent government in areas it has no business interfering.

We are headed to such great ruin in such a short amount of time that by the time the government gets through with us, the people will be begging for socialism, all the while ignoring the government's role in our failure in the first place.

And let's not forget, the only thing that ever saves any socialist utopia is a measured application of capitalism.  Socialism is entirely predicated on destruction, so why is anyone surprised when destruction is the final result, every single time?

Hi,

I agree.  The only solution I can see is term limits.  Those in politics have turned stealing our tax dollars to buy votes into a friggin art form.  You steal from achievers to reward those that don't and give it a catchy name like "social justice".  

We went to watch my grandson (10) play football today.  The neighborhood was a poor one and I said to my wife that the current administration would look at it and blame the rich, greedy white man for all the injustice.  Yet when one looked closer he would notice many fancy BMW's, they all had cell phones, many had nice clothes, and those I spoke to were polite, and some seemed to be well educated.......and that was in a neighborhood right off Martin Luther King Boulevard.  Drive into the slums in any country in central or south America, or in Africa and see how it compares.  

The day our society learns to stop paying able bodied people not to work, and instead encourages them to work and get ahead, the level will rise for all.  I got into a big argument with a liberal family member recently about the illegal immigrants.  Their contention is they are doing jobs Americans don't want to do.  No shit!  Stop paying Americans not to work who are capable and see how quickly they start bitching about the illegals taking away their jobs.  I do not know one person of means who did not start at the bottom for the minimum wage.....but the important thing was they worked and earned what they got.  They learned, got smarter and moved up the ladder.  If we pay folks who can work to stay home and do nothing the only thing it does is serve to keep certain politicians in office.

As a 16 year old I worked 80 hours a week for $1/hour, no overtime.  Part of that job was shoveling horse manure and cleaning out stalls.  That was one of many jobs I had that I learned full well what I did not want to do for the rest of my life, and that I had to figure out a way to work hard and get ahead.  Maybe I am from the old school, and so be it, but I feel that is how the system is supposed to work.

regards,
5412

[Chump]

If you're from the old-school, then so am I as a man in my late 20's, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  My wife and I are not financially well-off by any means.  We put a lot of thought into decisions over things like eating out or buying a six-pack.  This is also a temporary situation until I finish the requirements for my surveying license.  After that, who knows, the possibilities are nearly endless.  My point being, I have worked and am working very hard to provide for myself, my family, and our future.  It enrages me to turn around and then be told that I'm selfish for wanting to keep the fruits of that labor, as if that's some kind of bad thing.  Selfish?  Absolutely.  I do not recognize any man's need as some sort of moral imperative.  How could I be charitable otherwise?  Charity is by definition not achieved through compulsion.  Instead of helping the unfortunate, the left has condemned them by telling them they have a right to something simply because they need it.  Should we then be surprised when we see the poor get poorer, and the entitlement class balloon?

Term limits would be nice, but enacting them would be tantamount to asking politicians to cut off their own heads (although that's also a platform I could get behind).  Ideally, the best politicians would be those who don't want the job in the first place.

I also am disgusted with the ignorance of the left regarding your point about what "poor" truly is.  The truly poor from other countries risk life and limb, crossing shark infested waters, trudging across barren deserts, just for the chance to be as well-off as the poorest American.  Those who aren't that lucky simply sit in their home countries and wait to die.  I wish those who push for a socialist utopia within our borders could be given a one-way ticket to the country of their choice, on the condition that they may never return.  I wonder how many would take that offer.

[Eupher]

Ideally, the best politicians would be those who don't want the job in the first place.

Great post, Chump. And completely on target.

I believe anyone who aspires to "public office" has to have a screw loose anyway. There are those who are idealistic and truly believe they can "make a difference." These are the people who think that their brains and youthful vigor will carry the day.

Then they run into the status quo and quickly learn that if they aspire to make their career truly a career, well, they'll play the game by the party's rules - regardless how underhanded. And they toe the line - or they're gone. And being "gone" is not acceptable.

God bless that candidate that steps up and says, "This is not something I truly want to do, but I'm willing because I believe. I've been on this planet for a few years, have seen a few things, and have some ideas that I think will work. Here are those ideas, and here are my positions on the issues."

And then proceeds to do precisely what his/her electorate tells him to do, within the information that he has. If his electorate doesn't have all the information, he finds a way to get it to them.

If he's smart, he'll use the media as useful idiots, will play their game, but won't rely on them to get the message across.

[5412]

If you're from the old-school, then so am I as a man in my late 20's, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  My wife and I are not financially well-off by any means.  We put a lot of thought into decisions over things like eating out or buying a six-pack.  This is also a temporary situation until I finish the requirements for my surveying license.  After that, who knows, the possibilities are nearly endless.  My point being, I have worked and am working very hard to provide for myself, my family, and our future.  It enrages me to turn around and then be told that I'm selfish for wanting to keep the fruits of that labor, as if that's some kind of bad thing.  Selfish?  Absolutely.  I do not recognize any man's need as some sort of moral imperative.  How could I be charitable otherwise?  Charity is by definition not achieved through compulsion.  Instead of helping the unfortunate, the left has condemned them by telling them they have a right to something simply because they need it.  Should we then be surprised when we see the poor get poorer, and the entitlement class balloon?

Term limits would be nice, but enacting them would be tantamount to asking politicians to cut off their own heads (although that's also a platform I could get behind).  Ideally, the best politicians would be those who don't want the job in the first place.

I also am disgusted with the ignorance of the left regarding your point about what "poor" truly is.  The truly poor from other countries risk life and limb, crossing shark infested waters, trudging across barren deserts, just for the chance to be as well-off as the poorest American.  Those who aren't that lucky simply sit in their home countries and wait to die.  I wish those who push for a socialist utopia within our borders could be given a one-way ticket to the country of their choice, on the condition that they may never return.  I wonder how many would take that offer.

Hi chump,

You have no idea how much your message hit home.  I was married at 19, had three kids when I was 22.  In those days you cleaned up after yourself, you did not walk away and let the government step in with aid to dependent children.  I worked three jobs and went to night school for ten years.  We had a $20/week grocery budget and if we had any money left over we would buy a carton of coke and split one at midnight when I came home from the late job.  I barely remember my 20's other than we had three kids in diapers, a washer, no dryer, and there was no such thing as disposable diapers in those days.  We had diapers hanging up and drying all over the house.  You did what you had to do to survive.....and I was also in the Marine Corps reserve for a good portion of that time going for training on weekends and two weeks in the summer.  I honestly never had a vacation until I was 25.....and damn few days off.  That is not meant to be a complaint, but just a statement of fact.  Young man you have a goal and the two of you are working together, sacrificing, and doing what you must to achieve that goal.  

I recall one of many lessons I taught my children was that maturity was learning the concept of "delayed gratification".  You may sacrifice fun in the short term for a greater reward down the road.  

Sorry to get on my soap box, just want to say, good for you!  I am one that believes that if a person can work, having a job is not an option, it is a requirement.  I also have a grandson with cerebral palsy in a wheel chair.  If those who can work did so, there would be more than enough left over to help the truly needy.

Stay focused, sounds like you are doing great.....more champ than chump to me......

regards,
5412

PS:  If you have not done so, I suggest you read the post I made, second one down from the top.  You can never, ever give up or give in, the goal is worth whatever it takes.

[Chump]

5412,

Thanks for the kind words.  I've enjoyed the discussion; it's always nice to get perspective from others with similar values and similar experiences.

I am one that believes that if a person can work, having a job is not an option, it is a requirement.

Of course!  To qualify that you could add, if one expects to eat and have shelter.  I have no problem with someone's decision not to work.  Go live in the woods (provided you're not trespassing) and eat roots and bugs for all I care.  I may look at that person with disdain, but that's merely my opinion.  However, it's an entirely different situation to choose not to work and then claim by right something that can only be obtained by working and producing.  If one has a "right" to health care, then a doctor has no rights.  He is a slave.  Since we know that one's rights cannot violate another's, obviously there is no right to health care.  You can have all the care you can afford and that someone else will sell to you, nothing more, nothing less.  It's so painfully simple, yet beyond the grasp of even the most intelligent leftist.

I also have a grandson with cerebral palsy in a wheel chair.  If those who can work did so, there would be more than enough left over to help the truly needy.

Amen.  We would also not be fostering the sniveling, uncaring attitude of, "the government should do something."

If you have not done so, I suggest you read the post I made, second one down from the top.  You can never, ever give up or give in, the goal is worth whatever it takes.

Is that in reference to the current economic and political climate or my personal goals?

[Chris]

O-dingdong offends my values yet I still see he's around shredding the REAL values of most Americans.

Apparently, collecting a bundle of cash for a book you didn't write doesn't seem to bother Barry O'llama.  I wonder if Bill Ayers gets checks from Barry's book sales.

[Ptarmigan]

You know what?  It does offend me that corporations receiving taxpayer money to stay afloat are paying top executives obscene amounts of money, throwing lavish parties, and so on and so forth.  That's why I was against the bailouts to begin with, because now the public has a vested interest in what goes on at private corporations.  I also have no pity; the corporations receiving aid never should have accepted it in the first place.

These bailouts were planned with this end in mind.

Let all the corporations fail and hit rock bottom. No bailout for them. What were they thinking?

Bailout=Government Take Over

We would be out of the recession by now.

[Ptarmigan]

I'm offended by the salaries and benefits received by our congresscritters.  I say they should be determined by the voters (shareholders) in this country.  We can pay them exactly what they are worth....from state coffers, not fed tax dollars.

Agreed.

[5412]

Is that in reference to the current economic and political climate or my personal goals?
[/quote]

Hi,

More your personal goals.  To me the experience was one of life's lessons...Right now my wife and I are looking at possibly relocating outside the country; particularly if we can't get health care.  Then a little voice in the back of my head says, "hey wait a minute this is my country too, stay and fight..."

regards,
5412

[Alpha Mare]

Top employees leave financial firms ahead of pay cuts
Grass is greener where bonuses are sky-high

"There's no question people have left because of uncertainty of our ability to pay," said an executive at one of the affected firms. "It's a highly competitive market out there."

At Bank of America, for instance, only 14 of the 25 highly paid executives remained by the time Feinberg announced his decision. Under his plan, compensation for the most highly paid employees at the bank would be a maximum of $9.9 million. The bank had sought permission to pay as much as $21 million, according to Treasury Department documents.

That news drew scorn Thursday from employees at AIG Financial Products who said they had repeatedly offered to rework their pay arrangements but that Feinberg was unwilling to work with them.

"He has zero credibility with FP employees at this point," said one employee, who was not authorized to speak on the record. "It's a very demoralized workforce."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/22/AR2009102204422.html?hpid=topnews

And a few of the DUmmies responses:

global1  (1000+ posts)       Mon Oct-26-09 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. How Come No News Organization Has Done A Story On These Job Jumpers?...... 
 How come we are not hearing from these top employees? Why aren't they being interviewed on cable news shows? Why aren't we seeing who and what these greedy SOB's are? Why aren't we embarrassing them? Exposing them? Calling them out for raping and pillaging our citizens.

I want these people to justify to us why they feel they are worth the money they are being paid and bonused by. I want to know who has their hand in my back pocket. 

annabanana  (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-26-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I'd sure like to know where, exactly, they think they're going. . .
 Who would hire such monumental screw-ups?.. Or are they all just going to take the money and run?

City Lights  (1000+ posts)        Mon Oct-26-09 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Poor things!
 What a bunch of whiners. 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6857640

[NHSparky]

Dear DUmmies,

I heard Taco Bell is now going to cut pay of their employees as well.  Good luck buying Cheetos and that new bong when you're only making 1/4 of what you were previously pulling down, when you could be bothered to come in.  Or, you could just go across the street to McDonalds and maintain your lifestyle.

There, now that I've explained it in terms you'll easily understand, I'm glad I could be of help.

[The Village Idiot]

Dear DUmmies,

I heard Taco Bell is now going to cut pay of their employees as well.  Good luck buying Cheetos and that new bong when you're only making 1/4 of what you were previously pulling down, when you could be bothered to come in.  Or, you could just go across the street to McDonalds and maintain your lifestyle.

There, now that I've explained it in terms you'll easily understand, I'm glad I could be of help.

Why was GE exempted from this new rule? Will the media bailouts also be exempted?

[bkg]

Why was GE exempted from this new rule? Will the media bailouts also be exempted?

GE - top lobbying expense for a single company over last 10 years. Also in bed w/ this administration.... Of course they'll be exempt. Which makes me believe equal protection is being violated, but we know that COTUS means nothing anymore...

[thundley4]

GE - top lobbying expense for a single company over last 10 years. Also in bed w/ this administration.... Of course they'll be exempt. Which makes me believe equal protection is being violated, but we know that COTUS means nothing anymore...

I believe GE is also a big supporter of the Cap and Tax scheme and will benefit greatly from it also.

[bkg]

I believe GE is also a big supporter of the Cap and Tax scheme and will benefit greatly from it also.

Yup... and they're lobbying for more forced investment in windmills since production is down...

[thundley4]

Yup... and they're lobbying for more forced investment in windmills since production is down...

I just read where a wind farm is going to be built here in central Illinois, with the electricity being sent to the Chicago area.  I have no problem with that, but it sure seems like building them closer to the end point, would be cheaper, but I'm sure NIMBY is happening.

[bkg]

I just read where a wind farm is going to be built here in central Illinois, with the electricity being sent to the Chicago area.  I have no problem with that, but it sure seems like building them closer to the end point, would be cheaper, but I'm sure NIMBY is happening.

I hate windfarms. I drive through IA and NE a lot and they riddle the country side. Theoretically, that's really not an issue. But they kill more birds than Exxon could ever hope to, and it takes over 30 sq miles to put out the same electricity as a nuclear plant... But the NIMBY crowd, including the elites, is definitely affecting everythign these days.

[thundley4]

I hate windfarms. I drive through IA and NE a lot and they riddle the country side. Theoretically, that's really not an issue. But they kill more birds than Exxon could ever hope to, and it takes over 30 sq miles to put out the same electricity as a nuclear plant... But the NIMBY crowd, including the elites, is definitely affecting everythign these days.

I don't have a problem with wind farms, but they are not a reliable source of power.  They have to be backed up by traditional power plants which nullifies any gain from wind power.  Europe has the right idea in going with nuke plants.