Deli Owner Takes Mercy on Robber

[Lanie]

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. (June 3) -- A rifle-toting convenience store owner said he decided to show mercy on a would-be robber after seeing the man collapse into tears and claim he was only committing the crime to support his starving family.
The Long Island store owner provided the bat-wielding man with $40 and a loaf of bread and made him promise never to rob again.

http://www.gnn.com/article/deli-owner-takes-mercy-on-robber/510602

That is one really nice Deli owner.

[Chris_]

I'd have just put him in prison for 20 years, and made him have to build a whole new identity when he finally got out.

Then I'd write a MASSIVE book on the whole thing.

[Lanie]

I'd have just put him in prison for 20 years, and made him have to build a whole new identity when he finally got out.
Then I'd write a MASSIVE book on the whole thing.

You don't believe our system actually rehabilitates, do you?

[Eupher]

You don't believe our system actually rehabilitates, do you?

I certainly don't.

And here's why:

United States Recidivism

Of the 272,111 persons released from prisons in 15 States in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were rearrested for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years, 46.9% were reconvicted, and 25.4% resentenced to prison for a new crime.

This is just a tiny little bit of information on this very comprehensive web site. Data are old, but I can believe this stuff - and if anything, I'm sure the recidivism rate is even worse today than in 1994. Drug offenders comprise the biggest element. Blacks and Hispanic males also number highest in prison. They're so busy killing, raping, looting, robbing, and maiming each other they don't have time for "rehabilitation."

Dept. of Justice Stats

Edited to add more on recidivism in 1994:

Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).

Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide.

The 272,111 offenders discharged in 1994 had accumulated 4.1 million arrest charges before their most recent imprisonment and another 744,000 charges within 3 years of release.

Let's see. 4.1 million divided by 272,111 equals more than 15 arrests by the time they went to prison, and that number spiraled to not quite 18 arrests per perp.

Nope - these jugheads don't get it at all. More rape, robber, mayhem, burglaries, and larcenies. Just another day in the 'hood.

[Chris_]

That is one really stupid Deli owner.

Fixt.

[Lanie]

I certainly don't.

And here's why:

This is just a tiny little bit of information on this very comprehensive web site. Data are old, but I can believe this stuff - and if anything, I'm sure the recidivism rate is even worse today than in 1994. Drug offenders comprise the biggest element. Blacks and Hispanic males also number highest in prison. They're so busy killing, raping, looting, robbing, and maiming each other they don't have time for "rehabilitation."

Dept. of Justice Stats

Edited to add more on recidivism in 1994:

Let's see. 4.1 million divided by 272,111 equals more than 15 arrests by the time they went to prison, and that number spiraled to not quite 18 arrests per perp.

Nope - these jugheads don't get it at all. More rape, robber, mayhem, burglaries, and larcenies. Just another day in the 'hood.

I agree that the system doesn't work because of the recidivism rate. That's why I asked that earlier. However, I think the problem is that we really do focus more on punishment than rehabilitation. Do we offer counseling for drug problems? Does every prison system offer job training?  What is our system actually doing to prevent crime? I say it's not very much. I do believe that focusing on rehabilitation can work because there are other countries which do not have a high recidivism rate due to focusing on rehabilitation. Japan is a good example.

[Eupher]

I agree that the system doesn't work because of the recidivism rate. That's why I asked that earlier. However, I think the problem is that we really do focus more on punishment than rehabilitation. Do we offer counseling for drug problems? Does every prison system offer job training?  What is our system actually doing to prevent crime? I say it's not very much. I do believe that focusing on rehabilitation can work because there are other countries which do not have a high recidivism rate due to focusing on rehabilitation. Japan is a good example.

No, Lanie. That isn't the problem. The problem, according to the statistics I've read, is that a disproportionate percentage of black and Hispanic men comprise the bulk of the prison population. And that the population has exploded over the past 10-15 years or so. Prisons are overcrowded, resources are few.

But I'll tell you we certainly fall all over ourselves providing for criminals, don't we? Three hots and a cot, for example. Free medical. Free dental. And the fact that there's even a DEBATE about whether or not to grant elective surgery (like sex change operations, and abortions, for example) to prisoners boggles the mind.

Prison is not, and should not ever be, a place where the coddled criminal can go because he can't cut it on the outside. The business of providing this person access to all manner of support systems like free Internet, TV, libraries, all the kinds of things that most of us have to PAY FOR, all at taxpayer expense, boggles the mind even further.

Where is it written that criminals should be rehabilitated? If rehabilitation is even possible? Which the data shows as it's against the odds? That more criminals go back to prison than actually do their time and become viable members of society?

Prison is meant to punish - specifically by depriving a person of his personal freedom. But instead of being punished, many, many of these hardened criminals find ways to STAY in prison because it's easier that way. It's easier staying in prison because they can't provide for themselves - sorta like a lot of socialist idjits who can't think for themselves, isn't that right?

Oh, I don't recalling you asking anything about the recidivism rate. You merely commented that the deli owner was "nice." And you asked D6 the following question:

You don't believe our system actually rehabilitates, do you?

Nothing about recidivism in that question, Lanie.

That's the trouble with libs like you - you forget what you're talking about. 

[Baruch Menachem]

I agree that the system doesn't work because of the recidivism rate. That's why I asked that earlier. However, I think the problem is that we really do focus more on punishment than rehabilitation. Do we offer counseling for drug problems? Does every prison system offer job training?  What is our system actually doing to prevent crime? I say it's not very much. I do believe that focusing on rehabilitation can work because there are other countries which do not have a high recidivism rate due to focusing on rehabilitation. Japan is a good example.

Well, speaking from authority as a convicted person, I think you sort of miss out on the mentality of most of the folks who are in jail. You seem to think that most of them are Jean valJean types who got in trouble from desperation.  Of all the folks I met in jail, exactly 0 fit that description.  It would curl your hair to listen to the conversations we had in there.
Multnomah county is the most non white county in the state, but despite that, I met very few blacks there.  So making comments about black mentality is not instructive here, but the attitude of the folks I met there was pretty much universal.   It was very much "me first, me last, me always and forever."  

Pretty much all jails and prisons do is store the predators so they can't do damage.   We kick them loose every so often, but they, by and large, come right back in a pretty big hurry.  It doesn't matter how scary we make the jail, or what we do to them.  For them, it is just a cost of doing what they want.

What does seem to work is putting them to some kind of work.   Any kind of work.   Make their existence dependent on their production.  This is what works on the outside as well.  If we want to make reform happen, we need to get them into the reformed mode.   This is very hard, as producing anything for sale outside the jail is either very hard because of international treaty or union lobbying.  I do think having the prisoners do something that makes what they get dependent on their production, even if all they produce is smaller rocks, would be a step forward.

But the reality of the system is against this.   And since the conditions in jails are pretty much the result of prisoner behavior, there is little that can be done positively anyway.

As to coddling, that really isn't a option either.   It really isn't three hots, maybe two on good days, usually one.  And the hot is mostly rice or beans.   Cabbage is a big deal too.   And portions just barely make the minimums. 

TV is usually an option only during walk time, and It think it is meant as an amenity for the guard rather than the prisoners.

I do think we release too fast.  And too laxly.  85% of the guys I saw in jail, i was glad they were there.   I found them helpful and nice and they really did not belong on the outside.

We are not going to do capital punishment for larceny or fencing or assaults.  The folks who do these things are just the personality that does this stuff.  So we have to warehouse them.   Or turn them loose.

[Eupher]

Interesting account, Baruch, and as one who has not had the benefit/curse of having my freedom curtailed, I bow to your experience. 

That said, my own experience in this matter is limited to my brother, who spent a number of years in various prisons for various crimes. He never hurt anybody, but he nonetheless was guilty of some serious crimes.

Toward the end of his incarceration, which was lengthened a number of times because of fighting, he managed to find himself in a medium-security prison which afforded him some of the bennies that I alluded to. He described them to me. And I think for those who have enough money, it's theoretically possible in some facilities to have a TV in your cell.

Supermax, and prisons like it, of course, have no such amenities. It's 23 hours a day in the cell, no personal contact, and then out for an hour per day for exercise and a shower, IIRC.

Now that's prison.

[dutch508]

http://www.gnn.com/article/deli-owner-takes-mercy-on-robber/510602

That is one really nice Deli owner.

He was prob'ly an Atheist Democrat pro-abortion gay rights activist who understood that punishing a man for a crime only makes him a criminal...


 

[Chris_]

You don't believe our system actually rehabilitates, do you?

And that there ladies and gentlemen, is a glowing example of why I can assert definitively that the Liberal claim to intellectual superiority is just so much more of the same bullshit.

One would think that my intellectual superiors would be able to identify a not-so cryptic reference to Hugo's Les Miserables when they saw one.   

[Eupher]

And that there ladies and gentlemen, is a glowing example of why I can assert definitively that the Liberal claim to intellectual superiority is just so much more of the same bullshit.

One would think that my intellectual superiors would be able to identify a not-so cryptic reference to Hugo's Les Miserables when they saw one.   

 

I did wonder about the book angle....

 

[AllosaursRus]

In my opinion and experience, until we make belonging to a gang a capital offense, crime will never be under control, much less curtailed. In my experience gang violence is the number one problem in society today.

Even when we jail these criminals they get stronger. We furnish them with wieghts for cryin' out loud and a heck of a lot of their buddies are already there to back them up. It's high time society called it enough! Start snuffing these gang members and you will see an unbelievable drop in crime. Many commit crimes for the sole purpose of getting what they consider "respect" from their peers. How many innocents have to pay a price for their "respect"?

Doesn't matter the race either, every race has their own criminal underground. Our problem is we don't use capital punishment enough! I'm with Ron White, we need to make a fast lane to the gas chamber/lethal injection/sparky's chair, etc! Will we make a mistake now and then? Perhaps, but it has been my experience anyone accused has led a life where they deserved it anyway for the crime they are found guilty of, or one they have committed previously and got away with. Let's face it, you are considered a suspect for a specific reason.

[Salaam]

Thought I would add that the deli owner is question is Muslim and stated that he was being generous to the criminal because of his beliefs and the criminal promised to study Islam in response to the owners generosity.  When asked whether or not he thought the robber was telling the truth the owner stated he doesn't know.  Just thought I would add that since it wasn't mentioned. 

From the article you posted, the version I heard is a little different in which I summarized above:

The would-be thief dropped to his knees and begged for forgiveness, Sohail said.
"He started crying that he was out of work and was trying to feed his hungry family," he said. "I felt bad for him. I mean, this wasn't some kid."
He said he tossed $40 to the man, who then stood up and told Sohail he was inspired by the act of mercy and wanted to become a fellow Muslim. Sohail said he led the man in a profession of Muslim faith and the two ended up shaking hands.
Sohail said he went to the back of the store to get some milk to give to the man, but when he returned the man had fled. He said he called police and reported the attempted robbery, but he doesn't want to press charges if the man is ever caught.

Technically, the robber is now a Muslim...just what we need......