GM and Chrysler in merger talks

[DarkHalo]

I am a lifelong GM fan and dont know quite what to think about this.

GM and Chrysler talking merger

Reports: Chrysler, GM discuss merger, acquisition
1 day ago

DETROIT (AP) — General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC have held preliminary talks about a merger or an acquisition of Chrysler by GM, according to published reports.

The Wall Street Journal, citing people it described as familiar with the discussions, reported that Cerberus Capital Management, the private equity firm that owns 80.1 percent of Chrysler and 51 percent of GMAC Financial Services, proposed trading Chrysler's automotive operations to GM. The Journal said Cerberus would receive GM's remaining 49 percent stake in GMAC.

The New York Times, also citing people familiar with the talks, reported that the automakers were discussing a merger. The Times did not mention GMAC. (more)

[Chris_]

They haven't made decent cars in many years -- maybe a merger will get them off their duffs.
 

[Jim]

Considering what crappy shape both of them are in I have trouble seeing a happy ending, just a bigger thud when it hits the floor as one bigger company.

[Chris]

Considering what crappy shape both of them are in I have trouble seeing a happy ending, just a bigger thud when it hits the floor as one bigger company.

They would be better off selling their assets and a brand or two like Ford did with Jaguar and Land Rover.  Buick is a big seller in China.  The bigger problem will be what to do with all their dealerships. 

[Miss Mia]

Report: Ford may sell part of Mazda stake

Hans Greimel
Automotive News
October 12, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

TOKYO -- Ford Motor Co. may sell part of its stake in Mazda Motor Corp. to help weather plunging U.S. auto sales and the global credit crunch, Japanese media reported.

Ford is close to selling most of its 33.4 percent holding in the Japanese carmaker, the Nikkei newspaper and broadcaster NHK said today. NHK said Ford wanted to shed a 20 percent block.

Ford and Mazda declined comment on any specifics. "Our relationship with Mazda has not changed," said Ford spokesman Mark Truby. Mazda in a statement said: "Nothing has been decided."

Proceeds of any sell-off could help stabilize Ford's financial situation, weakened by falling sales and a tumbling stock price. Standard & Poor's said this week it was considering cutting Ford's credit rating deeper into junk status.

Japanese trading company Sumitomo Corp. and India's Tata Motors were potential buyers of Mazda shares, Nikkei said. Ford sold its Jaguar and Land Rover units to Tata earlier this year.

Ford and Mazda would continue joint auto production following any sale, the Nikkei said.

Ford CEO Alan Mulally told Reuters yesterday that a bankruptcy filing "makes no sense to us." He said the automaker is focused on its turnaround and managing its cash "very, very carefully."

Said Mulally: "Clearly the most important thing for us is to continue to build our viable Ford."

[Airwolf]

They are doing well overseas but here in the US they are tanking. It wouldn't hurt for UAW to give some ground but then again it was the unions that drove Eastern Airlines out of business and they were happy to do it.

[Chris_]

Thanks for posting that, Mia.  

I was wondering if Ford's problems would get so bad that they'd have to sell Mazda (or part of their stake, anyway).  To be honest, I want Ford to have less say in Mazda's operations.  I can give Ford some credit, though, as I see they've learned after the Ford-built transmission debacle with the 626 (I found that out the hard way   ).  The replacement for the 626, the Mazda 6, now has a Japanese-built transmission.  

[miskie]

Sadly Chrysler has been on a slow 30 year death-spiral. It started when they absorbed AMC and the company has continued to make one mistake after the next with a few shining examples of greatness. The only thing a merger would do is centralize construction, and give GM Jeep which is really the only worthwhile Chrysler enterprise (even though the last decade or so has seen some of the worst Jeeps ever made, I still think the brand can be resuscitated) - honestly, its the one good thing the company got when it swallowed AMC all those years ago. Other than that its the exceptions - the Dodge truck line, and the T&C and related vans thats kept Chrysler afloat. The rest is either crap or niche market.

[Chris_]

I'll never drive another  GM product.  Every one I ever had was a piece of  .  I'll stick to Dodge/Chrysler or Ford from now on.  If they merge, I'm just left with Ford (First On Race Day).   

[Chris_]

I'll never drive another  :censored: GM product.  Every one I ever had was a piece of  :censored:.  I'll stick to Dodge/Chrysler or Ford from now on.  If they merge, I'm just left with Ford (First On Race Day).   :-)

Don't you mean Found On Road Dead?

[miskie]

Don't you mean Found On Road Dead?

Fix Or Repair Daily ?

[Chris_]

The first GM/Chrysler joint project:

[Chris_]

The first GM/Chrysler joint project:

A red "x".  Bet the mileage sux.   

[Chris_]

A red "x".  Bet the mileage sux.   :tongue:

Yikes -- reworking now....

[Chris_]

Fix Or Repair Daily ?

AKA:
Eff'd Over Rebuilt Dodge.  
yeah, I'll stick with the first one.  

[Chris_]

Red X gone now?

[Sadie]

The few assets GM had which made them money were merged in with non performing(going broke)factories, which in turn were stocked with the same old managers that drove down the profits at their losing company, and still wanted to run things the same old way. there are few remaining assets owned by GM that are now turning a profit these days. I think stock was down to around $5-7 on Friday. In john deLorean's book years ago he wrote that he tried to get GM to change their production techniques and style of automobiles but they wouldn't listen. There is definitely a price to pay and GM is now paying it. As for Chrysler, they could do better but they moved everything to China, the prices remained high, so no more Chrysler.

[Atomic Lib Smasher]

The first GM/Chrysler joint project:

The Homer.... just what we need.. bubble tops and 15 horns. 

[DarkHalo]

I have been a GM guy all my life. Chevy's were always my fav and my last two cars were a Corvette and a Buick Reatta. Oh and I had a 4X4 Blazer and restored an El Camino before that. But I just bought a Mercedes and it is undoubtably the best made car I have ever owned.  :clueless:

[dandi]

But I just bought a Mercedes and it is undoubtably the best made car I have ever owned.  :clueless:

Hope you never have to get it fixed.  You'll have to take out a second mortgage to pay the bill.

[Miss Mia]

I have been a GM guy all my life. Chevy's were always my fav and my last two cars were a Corvette and a Buick Reatta. Oh and I had a 4X4 Blazer and restored an El Camino before that. But I just bought a Mercedes and it is undoubtably the best made car I have ever owned.  :clueless:

Like I've told you, once you go German you'll never go back.   

[NHSparky]

(even though the last decade or so has seen some of the worst Jeeps ever made, I still think the brand can be resuscitated)

Really--no complaints from me regarding my Jeep.

[Chris_]

Really--no complaints from me regarding my Jeep.

Finally got used to it, eh?

 

[Miss Mia]

GM stock rises, analysts skeptical about merger
S&P cites 'massive execution risks' with such a deal

-snip-

But a deal with Chrysler might allow the top U.S. automaker to boost its cash holdings, reassure consumers that it was not going out of business and give it bargaining power to seek new concessions from the UAW, they said.

Shares of GM, which had traded near 60-year lows last week, jumped to $6.48 by 10:53 a.m. EDT, up from a close of $4.89 on Friday. The gains came amid a rebound in the broad market tied to steps by the U.S. government and others to stabilize the banking system.

-snip-

A merger between GM and Chrysler would be unlikely to produce major savings for their combined auto operations but could benefit stronger suppliers, Calyon Securities analyst Mark Warnsman said.

GM and Cerberus Capital Management have had discussions about a deal that would combine the No. 1 and No. 3 U.S. automakers, people familiar with the talks said over the weekend.

Those talks hit a snag over the question of how to value Chrysler, the sources said. Cerberus bought an 80-percent stake in the automaker for about $7.4 billion from Daimler AG in 2007, but auto sales have dropped sharply since.

-snip-

Here are some of the other analysts' reactions so far today:

• Aaron Bragman of Global Insight Inc.:

"The benefits of such a merger are, on the surface, slim for both GM and Chrysler. Both companies have significant and similar problems (too many dealers, damaged brands, falling sales, overcapacity, inability to raise capital) that combining forces will simply not cure.

"The real winner in any merger between Chrysler and GM: Cerberus, which has reportedly requested full ownership of GMAC in exchange for Chrysler."

• Himanshu Patel of JPMorgan Chase & Co.

"It is not clear from media reports if any financial consideration would be paid by either party in this potential deal, but our initial sense would be that GM should be compensated by Cerberus in such a transaction as GM's 49 percent GMAC stake would be worth $3 billion if it was valued at 75 percent of second quarter-ending book excluding Rescap (or 50 percent of book including Rescap), while Chrysler-auto is arguably nearly worthless on a stand-alone basis.

"While a $3 billion payment for 49 percent of GMAC may sound optimistic when one considers GM's supposedly weak bargaining position, it is worth considering that a transaction that involves Chrysler auto being sold has value to the owner of Chrysler finance (Cerberus) if the auto company's chances of remaining a going concern are increased, which such a transaction probably achieves.

"From GM's perspective, two perhaps overlooked motivations for doing a Chrysler acquisition, despite its obvious risks, may be a) UAW concessions, and b) perhaps, counter-intuitively, liquidity.

"If GM is deemed to be 'saving' Chrysler, GM's leverage with the UAW could rise considerably."

Sorry, Automotive News is a subscription site, but I think I pulled out the most important parts of the article.

[Miss Mia]

Chrysler-Jeep dealer council chairman sees positives in merger

The chairman of the Chrysler-Jeep National Dealer Council says he thinks a Chrysler-General Motors merger could help the companies, as long as it didn't involve a merger in the dealership franchise structures.

Jim Arrigo, of Arrigo Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep in West Palm Beach, Fla., said he thinks the merger would aid the automakers if it allowed them to consolidate production or health care costs.

-snip-

But Durant, who owns Classic Chevy in Grapevine, Texas, says the move would require both automakers to continue consolidating dealerships. Consolidation is "something to look forward to," Durant said, noting GM has told the dealer council that less than 70 percent of GM dealers are making a profit, a decrease from last year.

"There's probably some dealers that need to go away anyway," Durant said. "I think times are changing, and the people that didn't change are going to get left behind."

Arrigo said he does not favor combining product lines or consolidating dealerships.

"I don't think you can combine a dealer network that has so many products," he said.

Arrigo favors the automakers' exploration of mergers because of the number of people affected if one of the Detroit 3 goes under, he said.

-snip-

"What are we going to do with our stores?" the executive said. "There's still going to be a Chevrolet brand, and you assume there would still be a Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge brand, right next to each other, in the same markets? What's the point?"

Consolidation would involve "writing massive checks to dealers, releasing them from real-estate obligations," money better spent on r&d, the executive said.

Also from Automotive News a subscription site.