Poverty IS NOT an adventure

[asdf2231]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3826143

nadine_mn  (760 posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 11:02 AM
Original message
Poverty IS NOT an adventure 
 Advertisements [?]Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 11:04 AM by nadine_mn
dammit

So I have been watching and reading the growing media coverage of "saving money"... how to cut food costs, fuel costs, etc. Websites, local news, etc all have cute little articles showing a spunky and thrifty caucasian "roughing it" :

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/R...

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail ;jsessionid=5CEC57BCB47A84C58ED6BBEF586721EA?contentId=7241041&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

I think my favoite is the Gourmet Meal from the Dollar Store
http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/Business/Detail?cont...

"I've never seen canned potatoes"


Seriously... $1 per item is frickin pricey.. and that is assuming you have everything else we take for granted (cooking oils, spices, etc).

Poverty isn't fun, it isn't an adventure, it isn't about being creative by going "retro" (as in sooo last season) at H&M, it isn't a passing thing.

Now I know these type of stories are aimed at those recently experiencing a budget crunch, but the effect .. at least to me... is trivializing what it is like to really struggle.

I am fortunate now.. even though I have been unemployed for the last 10 months.. my husband makes enough that we still have luxuries like internet, cell phone, but it is tight. But there was a time when I had to drink powdered milk because that was affordable (shudder seriously nasty), when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters - you would be surprsied at what good stuff gets tossed, knowing when Goodwill had 50% off stuff, and how to juggle bills so that you are never on-time but not getting shut off either. I have had power, phone, cable etc shut off more times than I can count... even when we have a storm and the power is out, I first call to make sure our bill is paid.

None of the 2nd hand stores shown are the kind most likely to be frequented by low income people... Goodwill, Savers, Disabled Vets -these are where the bargains are and only get highlighted in Oct when the same human interest reporters are doing "cheap Halloween costume ideas". Once my husband balked at buying pants at a thrift store and I asked him.. what do you think happens to the clothes we donate? Are you better than the person who is buying your shirts and jeans? That made him think and now he is a lover of 2nd hand shopping too.

I know what it is like to be at the food shelf and dreading more creamed corn and mac & cheese... NOTE to all well-meaning food donors... mac & cheese assumes you have milk and butter... that can be expensive. Canned chicken instead of tuna was a treat, and so was any type of snack food.. because everyone needs to snack.

I love when people criticize low income people for eating fast food... that dollar menu is cheap and fills the belly, and when you have been working a long day or double shift... no one wants to go home and be "creative" in the kitchen. You want to eat, watch tv, and then go to bed before doing it all again. Praying the car starts, or walking to the bus stop and spending nearly 2 hours between transfers and stops to make sure you keep your minimum wage job, hoping your kids don't get sick because you can't pick them up from school, and hoping you don't get sick because you can't take time off.

And if you can't afford a car, or no access to a bus... well then ride a bike! Really? Because its not just on nice sunny days you have to ride that stupid bike, its also rainy, humid or cold ass winter days. And what kind of bike do you have? Nothing Lance Armstrong would be caught dead on... nope some used, broke down 2nd hand bike. Arriving to work all sweaty in clothes you have to try to wear 2 or 3x before washing because its expensive at the laundromat (and have you biked to the laundromat with you and your kids clothes?). Low income people don't have the luxury of good health either... so that bike ride.. can be frickin murder. And nothing screams "call child protection" then picking your kids up from school on your ten-speed.

The people doing these "human interest" stories are always so relieved to be done with their "challenge" and go back to regular life.

When do the thousands of Americans living below the poverty level get to be done with their "challenge"?
 

Try getting off your ass and looking in the Want Ads for a temporary PAYING job to help out your husband instead of sitting on your dumb ass bitching on the internet about how poor you are. 

[Lord Undies]

When do the thousands of Americans living below the poverty level get to be done with their "challenge"?

When they earn more money?  That's my guess. 

As we have learn from the last 40 years of failed democrat policies, we cannot "gift" our way out of this "poverty" mess.

[Texacon]

Ya know, I have been pretty poor, like most people.  You work hard and EARN your way out of it.  No one likes it but you do what you can to get out of it.  I hate to see statements like this;

And if you can't afford a car, or no access to a bus... well then ride a bike! Really? Because its not just on nice sunny days you have to ride that stupid bike, its also rainy, humid or cold ass winter days. And what kind of bike do you have? Nothing Lance Armstrong would be caught dead on... nope some used, broke down 2nd hand bike.

Back in the early eighties I was stupid and traded a perfectly good pick up truck for a motorcycle.  Once I got the bike I didn't have enough money to get out of it.  I worked a job 30 miles from my house and I lived in south west Missouri.  I rode that damn motorcycle everyday for a year and a half until I saved enough money to get out of the bike and into another pickup.  The only time I missed work was when there was ice, actual ice, on the roads and no one was making it to work.

I don't want to hear the whining ..... I want to hear how you are solving the problem.  Yeah, it is nasty sometimes and you have to do things you don't want to do but you learn and move on.  Minimum wage is nothing more than a starting place and if you are staying there on purpose then you are an idiot or too lazy to live.

Just my opinion.

KC

[DumbAss Tanker]

Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it.  Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures.  Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!

 

[Wineslob]

I call bullshit. This sounds like a, OMG......... WHITE PERSON trying to be AWARE of poverty, and care.


Complete crap. 

[franksolich]

Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it.  Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures.  Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!

That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.

Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.

[Lord Undies]

Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it.  Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures.  Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!

That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.

Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.

You are not alone.  Some of us don't express it as such.  I consider just about everything a challenge, or adventure if you will.  I enjoy everything which requires creativity to overcome - be it a financial slump, a lawnmower that needs repair, or a tried guestroom that needs to see a new day.

It's all good.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Why thank you, Frank.  You're a gentleman and a scholar, sir, and in whichever order you prefer.

 

[jtyangel]

Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it.  Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures.  Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!

That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.

Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.

You are not alone.  Some of us don't express it as such.  I consider just about everything a challenge, or adventure if you will.  I enjoy everything which requires creativity to overcome - be it a financial slump, a lawnmower that needs repair, or a tried guestroom that needs to see a new day.

It's all good.

Well there is a reward in knowing you got out of it based on your own resourcefulness and tenacity. It's the antithesis of hopelessness.

My toughest years were coming out of my parents house. I got where I needed to go on my own 2 feet, the Miami-Dade public transportation, and the kindness of friends(on occasion). It really sucked sometimes and I did find myself in a few compromising situations as a young woman on her own with no daddy to run back to, but it was a means to an end. I just made sure I didn't ever complicate my situation intentionally like a lot of young women end up doing ie pregnancy.

[asdf2231]

Holy Heck.

The oiriginal thread turned into a bonfire with "Eff you! I"M poor and YOU are a POSUER!" messages all through it.

Kewl!

[bijou]

Holy Heck.

The oiriginal thread turned into a bonfire with "Eff you! I"M poor and YOU are a POSUER!" messages all through it.

Kewl!

It's hilarious

Marrah_G  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. I agree with almost your entire thread
 Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 12:05 PM by Marrah_G
I'm a working class mom- single, barely making it.

Edit: this sounds way more pissy then I meant it to and after reading the links I realized I mistook your words. Just sort of a touchy and sensitive topic. Many times my children and i have gotten by on 20 cent packs of ramen noodles because I have 5.00 to last until payday. School clothes? there is nothing left for that luxury. 

Marrah has a star.

rynobales (12 posts)      Wed Aug-20-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well, not as bluntly as the last person but...
 This isn't a one-size fits all argument.

My wife works in health care making home visits with VERY LOW income families and is frequently shocked when she goes into filthy homes that are crawling with bugs, the kids are eating just rice for dinner or other meals that are far from anything substantial or nutricious, yet they'll have 8 or 10 year old kids with their own cell phones, texting the whole time she's there. They've got cable TV and DVD players and an Xbox - stuff even I consider luxuries (I'm 30 and just recently got a cell phone on the lowest plan that doesn't include texting and we just recently got cable cause we couldn't afford it).

I agree that many families out there who are really trying to get by and are saving their money to buy bug spray and clean clothes and better automobiles and what not - but there are also many families out there who are struggling because they choose to spend their money on the latest tech items rather than necessities.

I love helping lower class people and often help out in my community but many in our society need to want to help themselves before anything we do or say is going to help them.

Gormy Cuss  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-20-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Welcome to DU.
 If the kids are eating just rice for dinner, perhaps there's no money and it's not related to the electronic geegaws.

The X-box may have been donated by a secret santa, the cells and DVDs may have been given to them or bought for cheap on the secondary market when the family had more money. Even at retail some DVD players are under $30 --maybe grandma gave it to them last Christmas. Maybe the cable isn't a legal hookup. More to the point with perhaps the exception of the X-box those items have zilch in resale value.

It's amazing to me that no matter the decade, there are always people ready to criticize low income people based on their possessions without having any idea how the person arrived where they are today.
It used to be criticizing us for having any TV or telephone. People used to criticize my family because my mother "owned" the house after the divorce. Well, none of the little busybodies knew that we had no insurance and every year needed to scramble to avoid being evicted for back taxes. When something broke, it didn't get fixed unless we couldn't do without. We flushed the toilet with buckets, lived without gas, had some windows that we couldn't open because the frames were so rotted that my mother was afraid the whole thing would fall out. It was far cheaper to live in the house than move our large family to a rental and because of the neighborhood, the value of the house at sale would have paid for rent for less than a year -- after that time if we were lucky we would have qualified for a public housing unit or substandard apartment.
 

[Lord Undies]

rynobales2 (2 posts)        Wed Aug-20-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Sorry if I offended
   Apparently, someone in the DU community was unhappy with me and banned me from conversation. Not sure if it was this topic or the other one I had posted on, but I'll stop giving my opinion now.

Good luck to you all who ban the posters trying to have conversations that encourage thought and strive for understanding on both sides.

 

[Taxman]

A couple of things come to mind here. 

One, it takes some discipline and determination to elevate one out of poverty.  For the DUmmies it is easier to bitch about having to ride a bike to work on a rainy day than bucking up and donning raingear to ride their bike to work.  Pathetic bastards, they are always looking for the easy way out.

Two, every summer I spend a few nights teaching financial skills at a local charity.  This year is no different than the years past.  The majority of the "students" have tatoos, have piercings, smoke, have huge CC debt and do not have the income to cover their bills.  I attempt to teach them budgeting skills and such novel ideas as not spending more than they take in.  Most are DUmmy material and always are asking if I know of government programs for them to sign up for.  There are a some hard luck stories due to illness, job loss etc.  I feel for them, but most lived on the edge on borrowed money and never gave a thought to what happens if their luck turns sour.  Having an emergency fund was never considered.  I always ask them if they would like to have $3,000 to $4,000 in additional cash in the next year.  It gets them all fired up...until I tell them to stop smoking.  Most are deluded into believing that Obama is going to solve all of their problems. 

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters -

GROSS! She's eating out of dumpsters!

[Lord Undies]

when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters -

GROSS! She's eating out of dumpsters!

It's not quite like that.  Stores do throw out some pretty useful stuff.  I have a sister-in-law who is a partner in a "resale" shop in a small town.  They get most of their merchandise from combing the dumpsters in Dallas.  They do pretty good too.  My S-I-L is your typical soccer mom-looking lady. 

You would be surprised at the slightly dented can goods and such they pick up along the way.  It is a pity when these things go to the dump and get plowed under.  They give the food stuff to a food pantry in Kaufman.

[MrsSmith]

I really have to wonder about their entire thought process.  Things like:

But there was a time when I had to drink powdered milk because that was affordable

The last time I checked, powdered milk cost the same as regular 2%.  Now, if she got it as a commodity food, I could see it.  But if she bought it, she didn't save anything.

clothes you have to try to wear 2 or 3x before washing because its expensive at the laundromat

And it's impossible to wash them by hand?  Seriously, I did that for months when I couldn't afford to replace my washer...and I already had 2 kids by then.  (Now, that was tough...getting stains out of kid's clothes...but do-able.)

nothing screams "call child protection" then picking your kids up from school on your ten-speed.

Again...I knew a man who picked up his kids with his bike every day it was nice, and on foot the rest of the time. 

Even my daughter has picked up her boys while on her bike.  She has one of those pull-behind trailers.

The people doing these "human interest" stories are always so relieved to be done with their "challenge" and go back to regular life.

Now, this part is true.  On the other hand, those that live that way are used to it, and know all the tricks to get by.  I know we have no problem dropping our grocery bill in half when we need.   

[Texacon]

when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters -

GROSS! She's eating out of dumpsters!

It's not quite like that.  Stores do throw out some pretty useful stuff.  I have a sister-in-law who is a partner in a "resale" shop in a small town.  They get most of their merchandise from combing the dumpsters in Dallas.  They do pretty good too.  My S-I-L is your typical soccer mom-looking lady. 

You would be surprised at the slightly dented can goods and such they pick up along the way.  It is a pity when these things go to the dump and get plowed under.  They give the food stuff to a food pantry in Kaufman.

OMG LU, you can't say that out loud!  If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits.  SUITS I tell you!!  Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.

KC

[Chris]

OMG LU, you can't say that out loud!  If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits.  SUITS I tell you!!  Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.

KC

They sell canned burritos?

[Texacon]

OMG LU, you can't say that out loud!  If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits.  SUITS I tell you!!  Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.

KC

They sell canned burritos?

 

Smart ass!

KC

[Texacon]

OMG LU, you can't say that out loud!  If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits.  SUITS I tell you!!  Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.

KC

They sell canned burritos?

You have to remember......I'm in Texas ..... we get our burritos a lot of different ways.  Like ..... On a stick.   

KC

[Chris]

Canned burritos sounds pretty tasty right now. 

[asdf2231]

lumberjack_jeff  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-20-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. Those with poor money management skills are hit harder by misfortune.
 Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 03:26 PM by lumberjack_jeff
Our family is low income too, (significantly less than $40k/year for a family of five) but we do okay - partly because we have good financial sense, partly because we have useful tightwad skills (I can fix my own car and build my own house) and partly because we saved diligently when times were good. Looking in from outside, you would not guess that we have such a low income... unless the topic is what's on TV, shopping, eating out, new movies or or "going out". These are topics of which we're wholly ignorant. Our older kids have cellphones, which they finance through working for neighbors.

So we're lucky, to the degree that a family of five with the main breadwinner making $16/hour can be considered lucky.

The major problem with our budget is the fact that we live 10mi from the nearest town and 22mi from work. We spend more on gas than food.

My point is that it's not either-or. Poor folks don't necessarily have only themselves to blame, but poor life skills do contribute to the severity of adversity.

Poverty can't be solved without helping people acquire life skills.

Naturyl (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
164. Yours was a deeply paternalistic post.
 I make 637.00 a month and have an IQ high enough that specifying it would make me look like a jackass. (I think people can deduce that you are a jackass without you mentioning your staggeringly high IQ)Would you like to do some charity work on my behalf and come teach me some "life skills?" You got any Tony Robbins tapes? I just love him, and that nice smiling Money lady that's always on the TV, too. Tell me about the rabbits, George. Maybe later we can discuss Quine's influence on the analytic/synthetic distinction in 20th century philosophy. After you teach me how to count money, that is.

And don't think I'm some anomaly, either. Yours was just a kindler, gentler version of the "stupidity and ignorance cause poverty" argument, and I wish people who feel that way could have a conversation with some of the poor people I know...

What a fekking loser.

lumberjack_jeff  (1000+ posts)      Wed Aug-20-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #164
192. People of every socioeconomic background have poor money management skills.
 Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 11:03 PM by lumberjack_jeff
The difference is that poor people can't afford it.

$637? Is the market for smug intellectual superiority not what it once was? Perhaps you could go into business selling snark.

You might as well share that IQ score, it won't change appearances to any appreciable degree.

$637 is about 30% more than the income for each member of my household. Perhaps you're premature in rejecting that advice.

Naturyl (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #192
198. Hehe, very predictable response.
 For the lack of any more substantive counter, you chose to paint me as a boasting snob. And you know what? That would be a very tenable argument except for one thing:

I ONLY mention my IQ, qualifications, intellectual work, independent study, or any of that in ONE type of thread and one type ALONE. Yep, that would poverty-related threads. And guess what ALWAYS occurs before I do so? Yep, you guessed right again - somebody states or implies that poverty is caused by stupidity or ignorance.

Guess what? Chances are I find people who boast about their IQ or intellect at every opportunity just as obnoxious as you do. Good thing I don't do something as silly as that. I mention it in one specific circumstance ONLY - and this thread meets the criteria. Sorry, but them's the breaks.

For the record, I do thank you for clarifying your statement regarding money management.

As for selling snark, it certainly appears to be a buyer's market tonight.

And now, just so you can carry on thinking I'm smug and self-absorbed, I'll close with an appropriate snide remark - class dismissed.

$637.00... A Month.  I'm pretty sure that the retarded kid in the crash helmet who collects carts at the Piggly Wiggly near me makes more than that in a month.
 
 

[asdf2231]

OPERATIONMINDCRIME  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
29. The Articles Are Perfectly Fine And None Were Trivializing A Thing.
 In fact, it appears that you just used those stories as a springboard to go off on some unrelated poor me type rant, to be honest with ya.

The articles were written well and informative, and I don't see the slightest reason for you to have gotten bitter over them and to rant as you did in the OP.

So the articles didn't apply to you or your income level. Oh well. But to be so bitter towards them for that? Unwarranted.

Naturyl (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
89. This dismissive response brought to you by somebody...
 Who has been praised in certain "unmentionable" conservative communities as "one of the few sensible voices on DU."

I guess we just got a clue why they might think so, eh?

OPERATIONMINDCRIME  (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #89
119. Your Ad Hominem Attack Was Worthless. My Point Stands.

Naturyl (1000+ posts)       Wed Aug-20-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #119
138. Yep, it sure was ad hom.
 I note you didn't deny they praised you over at a place which cannot be mentioned. Gee, why would they do that?

"Ye shall know them by their fruits" is ad hom, too. Didn't stop a certain commie hippie from saying it.

  Well we certainly know DU by it's fruits...

[Chris]

$637 a month is less than $4 an hour.   

[franksolich]

Wow.

If our old home is "the site that shall not be mentioned," are we "the unmentionable site"?