Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something

[freedumb2003b]

Ok. I'm going to lay out something that has scarred my heart. 

When I was a teen I got pregnant.  My mom said it would break my dad's heart if he ever found out and she whisked me away for an abortion.  I was a teen and thought it was nothing.  Little did I know how bad it would affect me later in life.  I went through 8 years of infertility where I had miscarriage after miscarriage and I felt I deserved every bit of that.  I felt that God was telling me that since I didn't love his child when I was 17 what right did I deserve to be a mother now.  I only overcame my infertility when I just said "I trust you, Lord" and I literally felt pressure on my shoulder.  It was his hand.  If my mom wouldn't have advised me to get an abortion I would have a 24 yr old child now.  I think about that abortion all the time.  When my brother had his first kid my mom said "I'm finally going to be a grandmother".  I told her "You already were one, Mom, Remember?"  I don't know if she feels guilt for it.  We have never really talked about it.  But it's something that hangs around my neck daily and will until I die.  I have asked God for forgiveness and I'm sure he has given that to me.  I just don't know if I can ever forgive myself.

So when I see these people post that it was the best decision they made it only shows they are selfish.  A human being died so you could live your lifestyle.  It will affect you one day.  I promise that and if it never does....you were a lost soul to begin with.

I hope this doesn't make some of you hate me.  I do know that I would never do this to my daughters.  Abortion does ruin lives. Not just the baby but the would be mom. 

My dad still does not know to this day.

Why in the world would anyone hate you for this very significant sharing of an important part of your life with us?

It is exactly on point and poignant.  I hope others can learn from it -- sadly, the DUmpmonkey who called us out either won't read it or won't understand it.

[SVPete]

Why in the world would anyone hate you for this very significant sharing of an important part of your life with us?

It is exactly on point and poignant.  I hope others can learn from it -- sadly, the DUmpmonkey who called us out either won't read it or won't understand it.

And will probably think us hypocrites for: a.) having several members having similar life histories; b.) not condemning Gina for having had an abortion.

Because we don't obligingly fit into their stereotypes of what conservatives and Pro-Life people "should" be - in their imaginings - they believe we are hypocrites and phonies.

Because of my commute and work hours, there were several hours between my first seeing Gina's post and being able to post my response. NONE of fellow Cavers' responses before mine (or after, for that matter) surprised or disappointed me. Frankly, if Gina had 12 posts rather than >12,000, I don't think the responses would be much different.

[thundley4]

As emotive as rape and incest are in the context of the discussion of abortion, the baby is innocent of those crimes, and should not be punished for those crimes by being killed. As horrible as being raped or being the victim of incest are, those crimes should noit be compounded by the far worse killing of an innocent and helpless human being.

I used to believe in the "rape exception" and an exception being made for the life and physical well being of the mother.  At some point, I reached the same conclusion that a child of rape, is no less a miracle and an innocent than any other baby.

As for when the life of the mother is put at risk by carrying the child to full term, that is entirely up to the mother.

[HawkHogan]

I used to believe in the "rape exception" and an exception being made for the life and physical well being of the mother.  At some point, I reached the same conclusion that a child of rape, is no less a miracle and an innocent than any other baby.

As for when the life of the mother is put at risk by carrying the child to full term, that is entirely up to the mother.

I saw a Pro-Life advocate who was the result of a rape pregnancy.  The pregnancy occurred before Roe V. Wade, so her mother was unable to obtain an abortion in her state, even though she wanted one. 

She definitely helped sculpt my perspective on the issue.

[FlaGator]

And will probably think us hypocrites for: a.) having several members having similar life histories; b.) not condemning Gina for having had an abortion.

Because we don't obligingly fit into their stereotypes of what conservatives and Pro-Life people "should" be - in their imaginings - they believe we are hypocrites and phonies.

Because of my commute and work hours, there were several hours between my first seeing Gina's post and being able to post my response. NONE of fellow Cavers' responses before mine (or after, for that matter) surprised or disappointed me. Frankly, if Gina had 12 posts rather than >12,000, I don't think the responses would be much different.

I am unable to condemn Gina or anyone who has made that choice. I haven't walked in their shoes and have no understanding of the pressure and other factors that go in to making the decision. Also I take to heart Jesus' words: "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

[Eupher]

I am unable to condemn Gina or anyone who has made that choice. I haven't walked in their shoes and have no understanding of the pressure and other factors that go in to making the decision. Also I take to heart Jesus' words: "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Here, here. I have often thought of being in that position and I simply could not wrap my head around it. I have often said that a person who willingly chooses to abort a pregnancy cannot be unaffected by such a decision;  I just would not want to have to make that decision, believing that there are alternatives.

But there may not be alternatives. And that's the jarring part of it.

In no way could I castigate someone who made that decision. Even a person who makes light of making that decision, I can't help but think that their public comments are smoke screens for what they're really feeling. They have to be hurting inside, else they simply have no soul -- and I think those who have no soul are very few and far between.

[Gina]

Here, here. I have often thought of being in that position and I simply could not wrap my head around it. I have often said that a person who willingly chooses to abort a pregnancy cannot be unaffected by such a decision;  I just would not want to have to make that decision, believing that there are alternatives.

That's why I decided to open myself up here with my story. The left touts abortion as a womans choice and it's just a simple medical procedure but it's so much more than that.  With as much as the left says they want to help mental illness and women they should really be timid with abortion.  Abortion does affect the psyche of a woman.  This is a decision that they will live with the rest of their life.  I thought it wouldn't affect me, I was a teen and didn't have a political view yet.  You have to be affected if you really sit down and think about it.  You just rejected a life that your body created.  A life.  When you get older in life and decide to have children do you not think that you are a POS to say this child was more deserviing of life than the other one?  I did. 

All my miscarriages and losses really hit me hard.  I had 4 ectopic pregnancies and there would be a beating heart and I would have to purposely take a shot (methotrexate) to end that beating heart.  My medical file has "habitual aborter" on it.  That hurt my feelings so bad even though it's just a medical term.  I relived that crap every time.  Anyway, I just want the left to know women are hurt by abortion and I speak from personal experience.  Not only me but there are so many blogs and stories out there how women are so guiltridden by abortion.   Be a champion for them. Women should be given counseling before the procedure and after.  I do also think ultrasounds before the abortion could really help a woman see what is inside her.  She may think it's a clump of cells but when she actually sees the arms and legs wiggling it might just click that this is a life.  A life she made.  A mom is a protector.

And thank you all. I knew y'all would understand. 

[SVPete]

I'm not going to Quote Gina's post - for visual effect, not a problem with her post - but this is responsive to her post immediately above.

The term "habitual aborter" is bizarre to me. The ordinary meaning of "habitual" entails choices. There is no choice in miscarriages. And the "choice" in an ectopic pregnancy for the woman is between living or dying; the baby will not survive in either case.

Pro-Abortionists' denial that having an abortion has negative effects for many/most women seems to be peculiar to the US, from what I've read. EuroLand government "health" "care" agencies and medical communities apparently assume such effects and count/accept them as part of the money and social cost of abortions.

In the US, where Pro-Life vs. Pro-Abortion is a live issue, Pro-Abortion people fear the consequences of acknowledging what EuroLanders consider obviously true. The sad side of that intellectual dishonesty - trying to represent abortion as simple and safe - is that there are millions of women in the US living with a horrible need, and much of the medical community in the US is doing a "Sergeant Schultz": "I see nussing!" The (relatively) few people who do offer counseling and help, Pro-Life crisis pregnancy centers, are demonized by Pro-Abortion people and many municipal, county, and state governments are trying to regulate crisis pregnancy centers out of "business".

[Gina]

The term "habitual aborter" is bizarre to me. The ordinary meaning of "habitual" entails choices. There is no choice in miscarriages. And the "choice" in an ectopic pregnancy for the woman is between living or dying; the baby will not survive in either case.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Habitual+aborter

habitual abortion spontaneous abortion in three or more consecutive pregnancies before the 20th week of gestation.

Couldn't tell if you thought I might be doing a bouncy but it's a real term, I promise.   

[thundley4]

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Habitual+aborter

Couldn't tell if you thought I might be doing a bouncy but it's a real term, I promise.   

I think he just mean that the fact the medical community uses the term "habitual" when referring to something that happens through no fault of your own is bizarre.

[SVPete]

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Habitual+aborter

Couldn't tell if you thought I might be doing a bouncy but it's a real term, I promise.   

I didn't doubt it was, and didn't think you were.

Sometimes professions develop sub-dialects all their own, and I guessed this is a case. I also was guessing that one aspect that upset you about the term was the word "habitual", given its ordinary meaning. From your POV, I would imagine, the suggestion of multiple choices in regard to events you'd gladly have forgone would be very hurtful.

I thoroughly respect your frankness and openness in this part of this discussion. I cannot imagine it being easy for you.

[freedumb2003b]

That's why I decided to open myself up here with my story. The left touts abortion as a womans choice and it's just a simple medical procedure but it's so much more than that.  With as much as the left says they want to help mental illness and women they should really be timid with abortion.  Abortion does affect the psyche of a woman.  This is a decision that they will live with the rest of their life.  I thought it wouldn't affect me, I was a teen and didn't have a political view yet.  You have to be affected if you really sit down and think about it.  You just rejected a life that your body created.  A life.  When you get older in life and decide to have children do you not think that you are a POS to say this child was more deserviing of life than the other one?  I did. 

All my miscarriages and losses really hit me hard.  I had 4 ectopic pregnancies and there would be a beating heart and I would have to purposely take a shot (methotrexate) to end that beating heart.  My medical file has "habitual aborter" on it.  That hurt my feelings so bad even though it's just a medical term.  I relived that crap every time.  Anyway, I just want the left to know women are hurt by abortion and I speak from personal experience.  Not only me but there are so many blogs and stories out there how women are so guiltridden by abortion.   Be a champion for them. Women should be given counseling before the procedure and after.  I do also think ultrasounds before the abortion could really help a woman see what is inside her.  She may think it's a clump of cells but when she actually sees the arms and legs wiggling it might just click that this is a life.  A life she made.  A mom is a protector.

And thank you all. I knew y'all would understand.  :-*

We love you dear.  It is as simple as that. *hug*

[J P Sousa]

So when I see these people post that it was the best decision they made it only shows they are selfish.  A human being died so you could live your lifestyle. 

Very, Very true.

I hope this doesn't make some of you hate me.     

That would be impossible Gina.

I can't imagine what you went through.

[obumazombie]

No way could I ever hate Gina.
Gina is just so easy to love.
The libs are the ones who make themselves easy to hate.