Here are some facts to support an increase in minimum wages.
1. Not adjusting for inflation, the current minimum wage is 216% of what it was when Reagan became president. In the same time frame, social security recipients have gotten a bump to 255% of their 1981 level.
2. The median household income in the United States is now 279% of what it was in 1981, again more than the minimum wage increase. Another way to look at this is that in 1981 someone earning full time minimum wage made 37% of the median household income. Today they earn 29%.
3. One extreme index change is the Disneyland ticket price. In 1981 someone earning minimum wage would earn enough to pay for an all day pass to Disneyland in 3.2 hours. Today it takes 12.7 hours. Ouch!
4. A minimum wage earner trying to support a household makes so little that he or she is eligible for a wide range of government programs that cost the tax payers money. In other words, employers who take advantage of minimum wage employees let the tax payers supplement the poor wages. This is the argument conservative millionaire Ron Unz is using to back up his support for a minimum wage increase in California.
(http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/2103-youre-a-special-kind-of-stupid-arent-you.jpg)
The majority of Americans are in favor of an increase in the minimum wage which is currently $7.25 per hour. However, Republicans are opposed to any increases.
There are economic reasons to oppose a minimum wage. An increase in minimum wage tends to increase unemployment among the unskilled. Higher labor costs are passed on to customers who will see an increased cost in products and services. However, economics does not win elections; politics wins elections.
For obvious reasons an increase in minimum wage is popular with younger voters. If only Democrats support a higher minimum wage, then they will gain more younger voters and studies have shown that people tend to stick with the first political party they join. So, opposing minimum wage hikes drives voters to Democrats and giving Republicans less power in government.
Here are some facts to support an increase in minimum wages.
1. Not adjusting for inflation, the current minimum wage is 216% of what it was when Reagan became president. In the same time frame, social security recipients have gotten a bump to 255% of their 1981 level.
2. The median household income in the United States is now 279% of what it was in 1981, again more than the minimum wage increase. Another way to look at this is that in 1981 someone earning full time minimum wage made 37% of the median household income. Today they earn 29%.
3. One extreme index change is the Disneyland ticket price. In 1981 someone earning minimum wage would earn enough to pay for an all day pass to Disneyland in 3.2 hours. Today it takes 12.7 hours. Ouch!
4. A minimum wage earner trying to support a household makes so little that he or she is eligible for a wide range of government programs that cost the tax payers money. In other words, employers who take advantage of minimum wage employees let the tax payers supplement the poor wages. This is the argument conservative millionaire Ron Unz is using to back up his support for a minimum wage increase in California.
Conservative action on minimum wage should include the following:
1. Bring it up to match the increase in the past two decades for retirees and median households. This would be in the range of up to $9.50 per hour.
2. Tag future minimum wage increases to the rate of inflation. We do this for social security benefits so it makes sense to do it for wages that will support social security benefits.
3. Allow employers to pay minors a lower rate of 80% of the minimum wage. This would allow employers to maintain the current wages of jobs that are normally filled by minors. Minors can't argue economic harm from low wages because they are not responsible for maintaining their own households.
If conservatives took these actions they would reduce the number of young people that vote for Democrats and take away the issue from Democrats in all future elections. There would no doubt be some minor economic impact from making this change, but the cost of electing more Democrats to office is a far worse economic mistake.
It makes sense for conservatives to support a reasonable increase in the minimum wage.
The Fiddling Ant (http://fiddlingant.blogspot.com/)
A minimum wage earner trying to support a household makes so little
Who in their right mind thinks they can raise a family on minimum wage?
Nevermind..... :mad:
According to SHRM, the average increase in pay for 2014 is 3%, with upwards of 8% for exceptional performance.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/18/how-much-of-a-pay-raise-can-you-expect-in-2014/2832791/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/18/how-much-of-a-pay-raise-can-you-expect-in-2014/2832791/)
How can you possibly justify giving someone a raise from $7.25 an hour to $10 an hour, which is what Obama proposes, that amounts to an increase of about 38% when the average worker is receiving a 3% increase?
The argument "because they don't make that much anyway" doesn't work; if someone employs 50 people at $7.25 an hour--you're asking that business owner to increase her labor cost by 38%, not to mention the increase in SSI and Medicare taxes, which employers match for each employee, plus the increase in FUI and SUI, which are Federal and State Unemployment taxes, that are assessed on gross payroll.
I'm asking you a solid business question--not some esoteric, pie in the sky "because they deserve it"; which is not a valid answer.
Answer please: If you were a business owner, would you feel a raise of 38% to your minimum wage staff was both fair to you and, more importantly, to the rest of your staff who receive increases of 3 to 8%, when that minimum wage staff has done nothing based on merit to warrant such an exorbitant raise?
I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50. Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.
Also, all workers under age 18 should make 70-80% of the minimum wage. This would minimize the economic impact. It would not be as bad as the impact of the too high Democrat proposal. Also, only 2-3% of workers make minimum wage, it is just not that big a segment of the economy.
Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stooges or it could maybe have been worse. Just like Democrats shoot themselves in the foot when they fight the second amendment, Republicans damage their brand when they fight minimum wage. I say index it to inflation and take it off the table of potential Democrat talking points.
Conservatives are 35% of the population. Liberals are 25%. The rest is the squishy middle who gets to decide who wins the presidency. A despite there being fewer liberals than conservatives, the libs do a better job at getting moderates to vote for them. We don't need the type of candidate like Goldwater who was a darling to staunched conservatives and lost. We need the type of candidate like Reagan who was conservative but was still appealing to moderates.
Better to yield on a relatively low impact issue like minimum wage so we can take the presidency and control a high impact issue like appoint Supreme Court Justices.
Minimum wage is not the hill to die on.
A Conservative Argument for a Minimum Wage Increase
The majority of Americans are in favor of an increase in the minimum wage which is currently $7.25 per hour.
I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50.
Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.
It makes sense for conservatives to support a reasonable increase in the minimum wage.
That's your first mistake...thinking you're Conservative.
They do? Where is your proof of this?
Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stoo(ges or it could maybe have been worse.
I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50. Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.
Also, all workers under age 18 should make 70-80% of the minimum wage. This would minimize the economic impact. It would not be as bad as the impact of the too high Democrat proposal. Also, only 2-3% of workers make minimum wage, it is just not that big a segment of the economy.
Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stooges or it could maybe have been worse. Just like Democrats shoot themselves in the foot when they fight the second amendment, Republicans damage their brand when they fight minimum wage. I say index it to inflation and take it off the table of potential Democrat talking points.
Conservatives are 35% of the population. Liberals are 25%. The rest is the squishy middle who gets to decide who wins the presidency. A despite there being fewer liberals than conservatives, the libs do a better job at getting moderates to vote for them. We don't need the type of candidate like Goldwater who was a darling to staunched conservatives and lost. We need the type of candidate like Reagan who was conservative but was still appealing to moderates.
Better to yield on a relatively low impact issue like minimum wage so we can take the presidency and control a high impact issue like appoint Supreme Court Justices.
Minimum wage is not the hill to die on.
Dammit. I just saw this, and I was going to post something similar.
The best advice I ever got was to always work harder than I was getting paid to.
Dammit,it is the useless cretins on the left that want someone else to do their dirty work while they sit home and wait for a freebie.
Case in point: Our newest chew toy, Snazbo.
Remember the "conservative" who said repubs should commit voter fraud because dems do it?Yes, but thankfully his name escapes me.
That's your first mistake...thinking you're Conservative.
They do? Where is your proof of this?
Do you HONESTLY think it will stop there? Once you let the Camel's nose under the tent flap the sky is the limit. You're an idiot if you think the left will be satisfied with the idiocy you're proposing.
What you are leaving out is the fact they've done this voluntarily. Not with a gun pointed at their heads courtesy of the Federal Government.
What you are advocating goes against every free market principal out there.
But that's not surprising coming from a Lib.
No it doesn't. It's not a Conservative position. If you were truly a Conservative you'd know that.
A Goldwater conservative stays 100% true to his values and loses. A Reagan conservative knows what actions to take to attract enough moderates to win elections. We need more Reagans here and fewer Goldwaters.
We always like to see the GOPe sales staff come by. Did you help yourself to the ice water and cookies? We don't want you telling your democrat overlords we didn't treat you nicely.Overseers, and overlords on the lib plantation.
To respond to your comments - If we tie minimum wage to inflation, we stop libs from the ability to raise it to ruinous levels.If the minimum wage were tied to inflation with the passing of the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act, it would be $4.15 today.
Overseers, and overlords on the lib plantation.
I should have asked for a spiritual...Doo dah
Maybe Da Camp Town Ladies...?
I should have asked for a spiritual...
Maybe Da Camp Town Ladies...?
:racist: :-)
Gallup poll from fall 2013. 3 in 4 Americans support a minimum wage of $9 per hour. 7 in 10 support tying minimum wage to inflation.
A lot of economic arguments made on this thread are sound, but economics does not win elections, politics win elections.
If you win an argument but lose an election, I would call that a fail. I said before, let's take this card out of play and reduce Democrat votes.
I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50. Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.
Also, all workers under age 18 should make 70-80% of the minimum wage. This would minimize the economic impact. It would not be as bad as the impact of the too high Democrat proposal. Also, only 2-3% of workers make minimum wage, it is just not that big a segment of the economy.
Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stooges or it could maybe have been worse. Just like Democrats shoot themselves in the foot when they fight the second amendment, Republicans damage their brand when they fight minimum wage. I say index it to inflation and take it off the table of potential Democrat talking points.
Conservatives are 35% of the population. Liberals are 25%. The rest is the squishy middle who gets to decide who wins the presidency. A despite there being fewer liberals than conservatives, the libs do a better job at getting moderates to vote for them. We don't need the type of candidate like Goldwater who was a darling to staunched conservatives and lost. We need the type of candidate like Reagan who was conservative but was still appealing to moderates.
Better to yield on a relatively low impact issue like minimum wage so we can take the presidency and control a high impact issue like appoint Supreme Court Justices.
Minimum wage is not the hill to die on.
Link?
That's very naive of you and shows that you've completely failed to do your homework on elections and what drives voters.
When you look every year at the results of surveys of what is the biggest concern to voters...it's not Liberal pet projects like Amnesty or this minimum wage crap or even health care.
It's economics. Both their own and the country's as a whole.
And that kind of moronic thinking is exactly why the GOP is in the mess it's in right now. It didn't work on the debt ceiling amnesty or (insert pet Dem issue here). They still keep their voters and they still crucify the GOP.
You really didn't think this through did you?
Again, even "only" $8.50/hour is a raise of 17-18 percent. Again, Gern's question still applies. Can business survive? How can lower-income workers not be replaced or fired in droves?
Link to Gallup poll on minimum wage - http://www.gallup.com/poll/165794/americans-raising-minimum-wage.aspx (http://www.gallup.com/poll/165794/americans-raising-minimum-wage.aspx)
If economics trumped politics, we wouldn't have a 17 trillion dollar national debt.
Minimum wage earners are less than 3% of American workers.
The economic impact of moving min wage back to where it once was is not that great.
The best solution to get a conservative Republican elected to president who will support strong economic polices that will result in a strong economy where the demand for workers is increased to the point where everyone will earn more than minimum wage because of a strong economy with low unemployment
This can't happen if we keep electing Democrats who promote wide scale policies that damage the entire economy.
What happened to revenues in the past when minimum wage earners lost 17-18% of wages relative to inflation? It either was passed on to the buyers or taken in higher profits and they survived just fine. Businesses have been able to manage a minimum wage at this relative rate in the past. I am not advocating increasing minimum wage to a rate higher than it has ever been in the past.
Yes, increasing minimum wage will result in fewer workers, no doubt, at least until a Republican lead environment for economic growth is possible. But if we lock it to the inflation rate, we don't have an issue with this in the future and we don't create a gap to be filled by extra welfare program payments when minimum wage lags inflation. Lets have people pay for more of their own living expenses, not less.
Who in their right mind thinks they can raise a family on minimum wage?
Nevermind..... :mad:
You talk like a GOP consultant. You're spouting the very thigns that have lost us the last two Presidential elections.
You want to stimulate the economy and get companies hiring people again? Get rid of Obamacare. Get the EPA out of the law writing game and bring the tax rates down. Those three things right there would go a long way towards a real economic recovery.
Not some stupid and unnecessary minimum wage hike.
I agree that doing the three things you recommend would go a long way towards a real economic recovery which is why we need for the next president to be a conservative Republican who appeals to moderate voters. I am not sure how GOP consultants lost the past two Presidential elections. Romney got a higher percentage of conservatives voting for him than Reagan did. Tacking even farther to the right in the general election would not have helped, he got more votes than conservative senators running for reelection in those states, but he still did not win enough moderates. Reagan's margin for victory was his appeal to moderates.
I am being repetitive, but we conservatives are only 35% of the population. We will only gain the presidency again when we can get another 16% of voters to choose Right over Left.
Taking minimum wage off of the table is like losing a pawn in chess. If it puts you in position to win the game, make the move.
Unless you have PRINCIPLES.
Losing should not be a principle.Are you saying to win at all costs ?
I agree that doing the three things you recommend would go a long way towards a real economic recovery which is why we need for the next president to be a conservative Republican who appeals to moderate voters.
I am not sure how GOP consultants lost the past two Presidential elections.
Romney got a higher percentage of conservatives voting for him than Reagan did.
Reagan's margin for victory was his appeal to moderates.
I am being repetitive, but we conservatives are only 35% of the population. We will only gain the presidency again when we can get another 16% of voters to choose Right over Left.
Taking minimum wage off of the table is like losing a pawn in chess. If it puts you in position to win the game, make the move.
Are you saying to win at all costs ?
Or are you saying the ends justify the means ?
To respond to your comments - If we tie minimum wage to inflation, we stop libs from the ability to raise it to ruinous levels. We take the tent away from the camel.
If 100% free market principals were alive in America there would be no public schools and no social security. But we have to work with the society we have. If all conservatives vote, we get 35% of the vote. If all liberals vote, they get 25% of the vote. We have to throw enough bones to the moderates, or the libs will keep winning presidential elections.
Anyone who has read the other posts I have shared in this forum can clearly see I am no lib.
I just happen to be a conservative that hates to see us lose elections. Conservative ideas and values have always been better for America than the train wrecks caused by liberals and progressives. As long as liberals keep winning elections for the presidency and the senate, conservatives can't stop their destructive programs. Let's work on winning and not shooting ourselves in the foot.
A Goldwater conservative stays 100% true to his values and loses. A Reagan conservative knows what actions to take to attract enough moderates to win elections. We need more Reagans here and fewer Goldwaters.
we will NEVER see a true conservative pres or congressman ever again in this country. thats a cold hard fact. i dont like it either, but its reality. the issue with min wage is merely a SYMPTOM of whats really going on. on one hand, you ppl on here are advocating working at whatever job comes your way. the libs are advocating an increase in min wage. the truth is that there are NO middle class jobs anymore. and the jobs that have been lost are NOT coming back!! there are ppl out there who have been laid off from saw mills who think gee it'll be great when it reopens. NOT going to happen.
when you give in to the libs by advocating everyone just clean the shitters at walmart to survive, you are letting the libs and obama WIN. what we are experiencing shouldnt have surprised anyone. this was always the goal. and as far as getting experience or skills.... what good does it do to have a skill and noone to hire you?? i worked in electronics from 93- 2008. have a degree in electronics, and yet i couldnt find a job in electronics right now if my life depended on it. problem is.. the establishment republicans still want you to believe in the American dream. the American dream of the 50's is GONE and its NOT coming back.
we will NEVER see a true conservative pres or congressman ever again in this country. thats a cold hard fact. i dont like it either, but its reality. the issue with min wage is merely a SYMPTOM of whats really going on. on one hand, you ppl on here are advocating working at whatever job comes your way. the libs are advocating an increase in min wage. the truth is that there are NO middle class jobs anymore. and the jobs that have been lost are NOT coming back!! there are ppl out there who have been laid off from saw mills who think gee it'll be great when it reopens. NOT going to happen.
when you give in to the libs by advocating everyone just clean the shitters at walmart to survive, you are letting the libs and obama WIN. what we are experiencing shouldnt have surprised anyone. this was always the goal. and as far as getting experience or skills.... what good does it do to have a skill and noone to hire you?? i worked in electronics from 93- 2008. have a degree in electronics, and yet i couldnt find a job in electronics right now if my life depended on it. problem is.. the establishment republicans still want you to believe in the American dream. the American dream of the 50's is GONE and its NOT coming back.
we will NEVER see a true conservative pres or congressman ever again in this country. thats a cold hard fact. i dont like it either, but its reality. the issue with min wage is merely a SYMPTOM of whats really going on. on one hand, you ppl on here are advocating working at whatever job comes your way. the libs are advocating an increase in min wage. the truth is that there are NO middle class jobs anymore. and the jobs that have been lost are NOT coming back!! there are ppl out there who have been laid off from saw mills who think gee it'll be great when it reopens. NOT going to happen.
when you give in to the libs by advocating everyone just clean the shitters at walmart to survive, you are letting the libs and obama WIN. what we are experiencing shouldnt have surprised anyone. this was always the goal. and as far as getting experience or skills.... what good does it do to have a skill and noone to hire you?? i worked in electronics from 93- 2008. have a degree in electronics, and yet i couldnt find a job in electronics right now if my life depended on it. problem is.. the establishment republicans still want you to believe in the American dream. the American dream of the 50's is GONE and its NOT coming back.
when you give in to the libs by advocating everyone just clean the shitters at walmart to survive, you are letting the libs and obama WIN
I don't know what your real problems are in not finding employment, but you're in a library. Maybe you should use this time studying something useful, like sentence/paragraph structure and punctuation.
There was a thread not too long ago commenting upon some DUmmie that continually capitalizes whole words, but never the First letter in a sentence. The writing of this one is familiar. I can't remember who it was though. Maybe someone else around here will recall. ;)Quite a few of them do that. Maybe they Think it makes them look Intelligent.
This post reminds me of the shortest book I ever read: "Useful employment tips from the voluntarily homeless". Followed closely by the second shortest: "This 'ol box: 'True Conservative' advice from the guy living behind the dumpster".
Has anyone else ever read these books?
I never seem to get more than a page in before I'm sleeping soundly.
Where'd the little troll go?
Where'd the little troll go?
If this is a backhanded invite to continue with this thread, I'll bite.
A few posts back txradioguy argued that Republican selection of McCain and Romney was the reason we lost both elections. Given that conservatives make up a higher percentage of primary voters than they do in the general election, what was wrong with the other 2008 and 2012 candidates seeking the nomination?
With Bush fatigue, it would have been hard for just about any Republicans to have won in 2008.
Who could have gotten more general election votes that Romney in 2012? Rick Santorum? Rick Perry?
The true facts are that both McCain and Romney did better than Reagan with conservatives.
Romney got more votes on a state level than many conservative candidates. Romney won Indiana.
Conservative Richard Murdock lost. Romney won Missouri.
Conservative
Todd Akin lost.
Romney won North Dakota. Conservative Rick Berg lost.
Its a deluded fantasy to continue to believe that we lost because conservatives dropped the ball.
We lost because we didn't peel off enough moderates to get over the top. History will show that the reason Romney lost was that all during the summer of 2012, when he was not able to spend any general election ad dollars, the Democrats were spending big money painting him as (horrors!) an uncaring conservative. By the time he was legally able to respond to these attacks in his ads, too many moderate voters had already made up their minds. Even at that, some people thought momentum was in his favor when Hurricane Sandy knocked out a few crucial campaign days and the media painted Obama was rescuing America, giving him some relieve after Romney started scoring points.
I may not be the special type of conservative that would make txradioguy happy, but I'll choose Power over Purity any day.
Would a restoration of minimum wage to previous levels result in lost jobs? Probably.
Would Republican support for this win us votes? Definitely.
It's a price worth paying in order to get to name Supreme Court justices from 2017 to 2020. Let's just hope Thomas, Scalia, et al remain healthy.
We lost because many Conservatives stayed home. If Romney would have received the same amount of votes that Bush got against Kerry, he would have won the election. Kissing Dem azz had nothing to do with it... other than helping lose votes for Romney.
Romney beat himself. He savaged the other primary candidates, but when it came time to do the same to the 0, he wouldn't fight. After the first debate, he took off the gloves and put his hands in his pockets. Pussies don't win elections.
We lost because many Conservatives stayed home. If Romney would have received the same amount of votes that Bush got against Kerry, he would have won the election. Kissing Dem azz had nothing to do with it... other than helping lose votes for Romney.
Romney beat himself. He savaged the other primary candidates, but when it came time to do the same to the 0, he wouldn't fight. After the first debate, he took off the gloves and put his hands in his pockets. Pussies don't win elections.
The "Conservatives stayed home" theory owes it's origin to election result analysis in the day or two following the election. We were comparing incomplete results with full results from previous elections. The headlines were that Romney came up 2-3 million votes short of Bush and McCain. Once all the votes were totaled, much of this shortage evaporated. Romney actually got more votes (http://spectator.org/articles/34316/romney-beats-mccain) than McCain. Where Romney came up short compared to Bush was getting Hispanic votes. If Romney had gotten the same percentage of Hispanic votes as Bush had, we would have Presidente Romney right now.
Another evidence that it was not conservatives-staying-home that lost the election for Romney is that recent surveys have revealed that, had the election been held again this year, Romney would have one. Why is that? Who is having second thoughts? Conservatives who stayed home or moderates who have recognized there mistake? Any conservatives that really did stayed home are worse than liberals who vote. They are Sunshine Patriots who avoid the responsibility to do their part.
I checked the numbers. Bush got 1,108,458 more popular votes than Romney, not enough to have put him over the top, but certainly not stellar numbers for Romney.
I stand behind the second half of my statement. If your "moderacy" would have won the election, Romney would have won handily. Romney was a moderate that refused to fight because fighting doesn't show moderation. Moderates don't win elections.
The "Conservatives stayed home" theory owes it's origin to election result analysis in the day or two following the election. We were comparing incomplete results with full results from previous elections. The headlines were that Romney came up 2-3 million votes short of Bush and McCain. Once all the votes were totaled, much of this shortage evaporated. Romney actually got more votes (http://spectator.org/articles/34316/romney-beats-mccain) than McCain. Where Romney came up short compared to Bush was getting Hispanic votes. If Romney had gotten the same percentage of Hispanic votes as Bush had, we would have Presidente Romney right now.
Another evidence that it was not conservatives-staying-home that lost the election for Romney is that recent surveys have revealed that, had the election been held again this year, Romney would have one. Why is that? Who is having second thoughts? Conservatives who stayed home or moderates who have recognized there mistake? Any conservatives that really did stayed home are worse than liberals who vote. They are Sunshine Patriots who avoid the responsibility to do their part.
As President Kennedy put it in his inaugural address, “the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.â€
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
John F. Kennedy
From the above reason link;God has no place in today's Democratic Party. They made that abundantly clear during their 2012 convention.
Today's democrats would consider that blasphemy.
.
You can't convince a RINO like Ant Diddler of that PS. They are like Dems in the fact that when Libs lose elections they say it's because they weren't Liberal enough...Moderates and RINO's lose elections they think it's because they weren't moderate enough.