A Conservative Argument for a Minimum Wage Increase

[FiddlingAnt]

The majority of Americans are in favor of an increase in the minimum wage which is currently $7.25 per hour. However, Republicans are opposed to any increases.

There are economic reasons to oppose a minimum wage. An increase in minimum wage tends to increase unemployment among the unskilled. Higher labor costs are passed on to customers who will see an increased cost in products and services. However, economics does not win elections; politics wins elections.

For obvious reasons an increase in minimum wage is popular with younger voters. If only Democrats support a higher minimum wage, then they will gain more younger voters and studies have shown that people tend to stick with the first political party they join. So, opposing minimum wage hikes drives voters to Democrats and giving Republicans less power in government.

Here are some facts to support an increase in minimum wages.

1. Not adjusting for inflation, the current minimum wage is 216% of what it was when Reagan became president. In the same time frame, social security recipients have gotten a bump to 255% of their 1981 level.
2. The median household income in the United States is now 279% of what it was in 1981, again more than the minimum wage increase.  Another way to look at this is that in 1981 someone earning full time minimum wage made 37% of the median household income. Today they earn 29%.
3. One extreme index change is the Disneyland ticket price.  In 1981 someone earning minimum wage would earn enough to pay for an all day pass to Disneyland in 3.2 hours.  Today it takes 12.7 hours. Ouch!
4. A minimum wage earner trying to support a household makes so little that he or she is eligible for a wide range of government programs that cost the tax payers money. In other words, employers who take advantage of minimum wage employees let the tax payers supplement the poor wages. This is the argument conservative millionaire Ron Unz is using to back up his support for a minimum wage increase in California.

Conservative action on minimum wage should include the following:

1. Bring it up to match the increase in the past two decades for retirees and median households. This would be in the range of up to $9.50 per hour.
2. Tag future minimum wage increases to the rate of inflation.  We do this for social security benefits so it makes sense to do it for wages that will support social security benefits.
3. Allow employers to pay minors a lower rate of 80% of the minimum wage.  This would allow employers to maintain the current wages of jobs that are normally filled by minors. Minors can't argue economic harm from low wages because they are not responsible for maintaining their own households.

If conservatives took these actions they would reduce the number of young people that vote for Democrats and take away the issue from Democrats in all future elections.  There would no doubt be some minor economic impact from making this change, but the cost of electing more Democrats to office is a far worse economic mistake.

It makes sense for conservatives to support a reasonable increase in the minimum wage.

The Fiddling Ant

[DefiantSix]

[Freeper]

And we should support amnesty, abortion, raising taxes, unlimited unemployment, and welfare to.

[Carl]

Here are some facts to support an increase in minimum wages.

1. Not adjusting for inflation, the current minimum wage is 216% of what it was when Reagan became president. In the same time frame, social security recipients have gotten a bump to 255% of their 1981 level.
2. The median household income in the United States is now 279% of what it was in 1981, again more than the minimum wage increase.  Another way to look at this is that in 1981 someone earning full time minimum wage made 37% of the median household income. Today they earn 29%.
3. One extreme index change is the Disneyland ticket price.  In 1981 someone earning minimum wage would earn enough to pay for an all day pass to Disneyland in 3.2 hours.  Today it takes 12.7 hours. Ouch!

Nothing in life is fair or guaranteed,economics and emotion should be like oil and water,they don`t mix.
Good economic policies will result in good lives for people (no,not everyone and that will always be).
Economic policy should not chase outcomes but rather outcomes result from policy.

 

4. A minimum wage earner trying to support a household makes so little that he or she is eligible for a wide range of government programs that cost the tax payers money. In other words, employers who take advantage of minimum wage employees let the tax payers supplement the poor wages. This is the argument conservative millionaire Ron Unz is using to back up his support for a minimum wage increase in California.

Don`t be ignorant,leftist politics depends on poverty and dependency.
Raise the minimum wage to $25.00/hour today and tomorrow liberals will be raising the poverty level to match it,welfare program eligibility included.

[wasp69]

My thoughts exactly...

[Dori]

Who in their right mind thinks they can raise a family on minimum wage?

Nevermind.....

[Gern]

The majority of Americans are in favor of an increase in the minimum wage which is currently $7.25 per hour. However, Republicans are opposed to any increases.

There are economic reasons to oppose a minimum wage. An increase in minimum wage tends to increase unemployment among the unskilled. Higher labor costs are passed on to customers who will see an increased cost in products and services. However, economics does not win elections; politics wins elections.

For obvious reasons an increase in minimum wage is popular with younger voters. If only Democrats support a higher minimum wage, then they will gain more younger voters and studies have shown that people tend to stick with the first political party they join. So, opposing minimum wage hikes drives voters to Democrats and giving Republicans less power in government.

Here are some facts to support an increase in minimum wages.

1. Not adjusting for inflation, the current minimum wage is 216% of what it was when Reagan became president. In the same time frame, social security recipients have gotten a bump to 255% of their 1981 level.
2. The median household income in the United States is now 279% of what it was in 1981, again more than the minimum wage increase.  Another way to look at this is that in 1981 someone earning full time minimum wage made 37% of the median household income. Today they earn 29%.
3. One extreme index change is the Disneyland ticket price.  In 1981 someone earning minimum wage would earn enough to pay for an all day pass to Disneyland in 3.2 hours.  Today it takes 12.7 hours. Ouch!
4. A minimum wage earner trying to support a household makes so little that he or she is eligible for a wide range of government programs that cost the tax payers money. In other words, employers who take advantage of minimum wage employees let the tax payers supplement the poor wages. This is the argument conservative millionaire Ron Unz is using to back up his support for a minimum wage increase in California.

Conservative action on minimum wage should include the following:

1. Bring it up to match the increase in the past two decades for retirees and median households. This would be in the range of up to $9.50 per hour.
2. Tag future minimum wage increases to the rate of inflation.  We do this for social security benefits so it makes sense to do it for wages that will support social security benefits.
3. Allow employers to pay minors a lower rate of 80% of the minimum wage.  This would allow employers to maintain the current wages of jobs that are normally filled by minors. Minors can't argue economic harm from low wages because they are not responsible for maintaining their own households.

If conservatives took these actions they would reduce the number of young people that vote for Democrats and take away the issue from Democrats in all future elections.  There would no doubt be some minor economic impact from making this change, but the cost of electing more Democrats to office is a far worse economic mistake.

It makes sense for conservatives to support a reasonable increase in the minimum wage.

The Fiddling Ant

According to SHRM, the average increase in pay for 2014 is 3%, with upwards of 8% for exceptional performance.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/18/how-much-of-a-pay-raise-can-you-expect-in-2014/2832791/


How can you possibly justify giving someone a raise from $7.25 an hour to $10 an hour, which is what Obama proposes, that amounts to an increase of about 38% when the average worker is receiving a 3% increase?

The argument "because they don't make that much anyway" doesn't work; if someone employs 50 people at $7.25 an hour--you're asking that business owner to increase her labor cost by 38%, not to mention the increase in SSI and Medicare taxes, which employers match for each employee, plus the increase in FUI and SUI, which are Federal and State Unemployment taxes,  that are assessed on gross payroll.

I'm asking you a solid business question--not some esoteric, pie in the sky "because they deserve it"; which is not a valid answer. 

Answer please: If you were a business owner, would you feel a raise of 38% to your minimum wage staff was both fair to you and, more importantly, to the rest of your staff who receive increases of 3 to 8%, when that minimum wage staff has done nothing based on merit to warrant such an exorbitant raise?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Increasing it basically means that the wages up the scale have to pace it upward or they lose their differentiation, and so the cost of labor in every step of production and distribution from basic resource extraction to the delivery driver's wages goes up in proportion. 

The net effect is that wages go up but so does the price of everything you might need to buy with them, in proportion.  So, basically you can regard it as either inflationary or a currency devaluation, they're two sides of the same coin.

Economically it's really kind of a wash.  The problem for the GOP is that fighting it on principle is just a dead loser with the electorate, that's how Missouri ended up with that crooked Obamite in the Senate - the Dems got a minimum wage issue on the ballot that year so the bottom of the food chain turned out in droves to vote for it, and no rational economic argument would have any effect on them, and any Republican stand against it only ensured a Democrat going to the Senate for us.  Unfortunately, numbers rather than sound economic rationale count in elections.

I've come to the conclusion that it's a loser approach to spend resources or political capital fighting it.  Explain the inevitable consequences, sure, but it's better to not defend that ditch unless polling actually supports the stand.  I am NOT saying that hiking it is a good idea, just that fighting it is a no-win situation by and large.   

[freedumb2003b]

Apologetics are not arguments.

A minimum wage earner trying to support a household makes so little

A minimum wage earner should not be establishing a household.  We started this death spiral when we decided to subsidize having kids instead of encouraging the mechanisms to raise kids.

The cost to avoid this?  25 cents.  Give girls quarters and have them hold them between their knees.

[NHSparky]

The last time I earned minimum wage, I was 19 years old.

If you're in your 30's and thinking that you can and should deserve to raise a family on a service sector job which requires no skills, education, or training, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Ptarmigan]

 

[obumazombie]

Who in their right mind thinks they can raise a family on minimum wage?

Nevermind.....

Walter Williams has a recipe for avoiding poverty, even at the minimum wage level. It does involve at least a modicum of discipline...

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2014/02/12/dependency-not-poverty-n1792538/page/full

[FiddlingAnt]

According to SHRM, the average increase in pay for 2014 is 3%, with upwards of 8% for exceptional performance.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/18/how-much-of-a-pay-raise-can-you-expect-in-2014/2832791/


How can you possibly justify giving someone a raise from $7.25 an hour to $10 an hour, which is what Obama proposes, that amounts to an increase of about 38% when the average worker is receiving a 3% increase?

The argument "because they don't make that much anyway" doesn't work; if someone employs 50 people at $7.25 an hour--you're asking that business owner to increase her labor cost by 38%, not to mention the increase in SSI and Medicare taxes, which employers match for each employee, plus the increase in FUI and SUI, which are Federal and State Unemployment taxes,  that are assessed on gross payroll.

I'm asking you a solid business question--not some esoteric, pie in the sky "because they deserve it"; which is not a valid answer. 

Answer please: If you were a business owner, would you feel a raise of 38% to your minimum wage staff was both fair to you and, more importantly, to the rest of your staff who receive increases of 3 to 8%, when that minimum wage staff has done nothing based on merit to warrant such an exorbitant raise?

I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50. Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.

Also, all workers under age 18 should make 70-80% of the minimum wage. This would minimize the economic impact. It would not be as bad as the impact of the too high Democrat proposal. Also, only 2-3% of workers make minimum wage, it is just not that big a segment of the economy.

Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stooges or it could maybe have been worse. Just like Democrats shoot themselves in the foot when they fight the second amendment, Republicans damage their brand when they fight minimum wage. I say index it to inflation and take it off the table of potential Democrat talking points.

Conservatives are 35% of the population. Liberals are 25%. The rest is the squishy middle who gets to decide who wins the presidency. A despite there being fewer liberals than conservatives, the libs do a better job at getting moderates to vote for them. We don't need the type of candidate like Goldwater who was a darling to staunched conservatives and lost. We need the type of candidate like Reagan who was conservative but was still appealing to moderates.

Better to yield on a relatively low impact issue like minimum wage so we can take the presidency and control a high impact issue like appoint Supreme Court Justices.

Minimum wage is not the hill to die on.

[freedumb2003b]

I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50. Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.

Also, all workers under age 18 should make 70-80% of the minimum wage. This would minimize the economic impact. It would not be as bad as the impact of the too high Democrat proposal. Also, only 2-3% of workers make minimum wage, it is just not that big a segment of the economy.

Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stooges or it could maybe have been worse. Just like Democrats shoot themselves in the foot when they fight the second amendment, Republicans damage their brand when they fight minimum wage. I say index it to inflation and take it off the table of potential Democrat talking points.

Conservatives are 35% of the population. Liberals are 25%. The rest is the squishy middle who gets to decide who wins the presidency. A despite there being fewer liberals than conservatives, the libs do a better job at getting moderates to vote for them. We don't need the type of candidate like Goldwater who was a darling to staunched conservatives and lost. We need the type of candidate like Reagan who was conservative but was still appealing to moderates.

Better to yield on a relatively low impact issue like minimum wage so we can take the presidency and control a high impact issue like appoint Supreme Court Justices.

Minimum wage is not the hill to die on.

Not much liking free market capitalism, are ya?

If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything...

[txradioguy]

   
A Conservative Argument for a Minimum Wage Increase

That's your first mistake...thinking you're  Conservative.

The majority of Americans are in favor of an increase in the minimum wage which is currently $7.25 per hour.

They do?  Where is your proof of this?

[txradioguy]

I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50.

Do you HONESTLY think it will stop there?  Once you let the Camel's nose under the tent flap the sky is the limit.  You're an idiot if you think the left will be satisfied with the idiocy you're proposing.

Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.

What you are leaving out is the fact they've done this voluntarily.  Not with a gun pointed at their heads courtesy of the Federal Government.  

What you are advocating goes against every free market principal out there.

But that's not surprising coming from a Lib.

It makes sense for conservatives to support a reasonable increase in the minimum wage.

No it doesn't.  It's not a Conservative position.  If you were truly a Conservative you'd know that.

[Splashdown]

That's your first mistake...thinking you're  Conservative.

They do?  Where is your proof of this?

Dammit. I just saw this, and I was going to post something similar.

Why would conservatives--ANY conservatives--advocate more regulation? That's a limit to freedom. If you're worth $8.50 an hour, go out and GET $8.50 an hour. If you're worth more, go out and GET more.

You're obviously very young. Somewhere, someone forgot to teach you that nobody owes you anything. The fact that you're alive, while that is pleasing to the eyes of God, doesn't mean that you suddenly deserve anything from other people. It's your job to earn stuff: respect, love, happiness, money, creature comforts, etc.

The best advice I ever got was to always work harder than I was getting paid to.

[Dori]

Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stoo(ges or it could maybe have been worse.

I agree that this is about politics.  It's a wedge issue.  We've had many of them (like the phony war on women), and we will see manyh more.  The democraps have little to run on and need to invent issues in order to demonize Republicans and distract from their failed policies, like Obamacare and the economy.
 
As far as not winning the popular vote, well I don't have a lot of sympathy with Republicans.  This has been going on ever since I can remember.  Republicans are clueless on how to get their messages out and they keep falling into the Democrats' traps.  We can whine about how the media favors Democrats, but whose fault is that?  Outside of FOX and some conservative radio shows, where are we?

We were warned about what we are facing now, as far back as the 50's and 60's.  Where were our leaders then and why hasn't any of that been met head on?  Your not going to win anything when you
can't outwit and out perform your opposition.


 

[MrsSmith]

The "conservative" argument for minimum wage...young people will vote for it.  Young people usually vote Democratic anyway, at least until they grow up enough to pay their own bills, their taxes, and face other realities of life.  Voting for a minimum wage will not gain Republicans any votes, but will certainly cost them the votes of the small business owners that Obama obviously hates.

[Carl]

I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50. Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.

Also, all workers under age 18 should make 70-80% of the minimum wage. This would minimize the economic impact. It would not be as bad as the impact of the too high Democrat proposal. Also, only 2-3% of workers make minimum wage, it is just not that big a segment of the economy.

Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stooges or it could maybe have been worse. Just like Democrats shoot themselves in the foot when they fight the second amendment, Republicans damage their brand when they fight minimum wage. I say index it to inflation and take it off the table of potential Democrat talking points.

Conservatives are 35% of the population. Liberals are 25%. The rest is the squishy middle who gets to decide who wins the presidency. A despite there being fewer liberals than conservatives, the libs do a better job at getting moderates to vote for them. We don't need the type of candidate like Goldwater who was a darling to staunched conservatives and lost. We need the type of candidate like Reagan who was conservative but was still appealing to moderates.

Better to yield on a relatively low impact issue like minimum wage so we can take the presidency and control a high impact issue like appoint Supreme Court Justices.

Minimum wage is not the hill to die on.

In other words we just need to be Santa Claus 2.0
Listen...yeah,at times it gets pretty discouraging when you see the democrat party shamelessly pander to people and encourage them to vote for promised handouts only to be left with little or nothing in the end.
It takes no thinking to vote for a liberal,it takes sense and reason to vote for a conservative.

That is the battle we face and without question there are some theaters we have virtually no hope of winning.
It does not mean you surrender the fight nor give up trying in those areas.

Dammit,it is the useless cretins on the left that want someone else to do their dirty work while they sit home and wait for a freebie.
Make noise in your town,find candidates to support financially or otherwise if you live in a leftist hellhole.
Sure,sometimes it will mean accepting a person that is not all one wants,still roll my eyes at those who bitched about Scott Brown as a RINO from Mass.
What the ****,is it better now that Warren is Senator?

Judgment is not that difficult a thing.

[txradioguy]

Dammit. I just saw this, and I was going to post something similar.

GMTA! 

The best advice I ever got was to always work harder than I was getting paid to.

Problem is that message is more and more falling on deaf ears when you've got multiple generations that are expecting everything to be given to them.

This whole minimum wage thing and the ensuing fairness nonsense is the equivalent of myself working hard going to schools and coming up through the ranks through hard work and effort to become a Senior NCO...and then having some PFC whine that it's not "fair" that I'm a SFC and make more money than he/she does and that they need to be given the same money and rank to make it "fair" rather than busing their ass to get what I have.

[Big Dog]

Dammit,it is the useless cretins on the left that want someone else to do their dirty work while they sit home and wait for a freebie.

Case in point: Our newest chew toy, Snazbo.

[Splashdown]

Case in point: Our newest chew toy, Snazbo.

Remember the "conservative" who said repubs should commit voter fraud because dems do it?

[obumazombie]

Remember the "conservative" who said repubs should commit voter fraud because dems do it?

Yes, but thankfully his name escapes me.

[FiddlingAnt]

That's your first mistake...thinking you're  Conservative.

They do?  Where is your proof of this?

Gallup poll from fall 2013. 3 in 4 Americans support a minimum wage of $9 per hour. 7 in 10 support tying minimum wage to inflation.

A lot of economic arguments made on this thread are sound, but economics does not win elections, politics win elections.

If you win an argument but lose an election, I would call that a fail. I said before, let's take this card out of play and reduce Democrat votes.