A Conservative Argument for a Minimum Wage Increase

[FiddlingAnt]

Do you HONESTLY think it will stop there?  Once you let the Camel's nose under the tent flap the sky is the limit.  You're an idiot if you think the left will be satisfied with the idiocy you're proposing.



What you are leaving out is the fact they've done this voluntarily.  Not with a gun pointed at their heads courtesy of the Federal Government.  

What you are advocating goes against every free market principal out there.

But that's not surprising coming from a Lib.

No it doesn't.  It's not a Conservative position.  If you were truly a Conservative you'd know that.

To respond to your comments - If we tie minimum wage to inflation, we stop libs from the ability to raise it to ruinous levels. We take the tent away from the camel.

If 100% free market principals were alive in America there would be no public schools and no social security.  But we have to work with the society we have. If all conservatives vote, we get 35% of the vote.  If all liberals vote, they get 25% of the vote.  We have to throw enough bones to the moderates, or the libs will keep winning presidential elections.

Anyone who has read the other posts I have shared in this forum can clearly see I am no lib. I just happen to be a conservative that hates to see us lose elections.  Conservative ideas and values have always been better for America than the train wrecks caused by liberals and progressives. As long as liberals keep winning elections for the presidency and the senate, conservatives can't stop their destructive programs. Let's work on winning and not shooting ourselves in the foot.

A Goldwater conservative stays 100% true to his values and loses. A Reagan conservative knows what actions to take to attract enough moderates to win elections. We need more Reagans here and fewer Goldwaters.

[freedumb2003b]

A Goldwater conservative stays 100% true to his values and loses. A Reagan conservative knows what actions to take to attract enough moderates to win elections. We need more Reagans here and fewer Goldwaters.

We always like to see the GOPe sales staff come by.  Did you help yourself to the ice water and cookies?  We don't want you telling your democrat overlords we didn't treat you nicely.
 

[obumazombie]

We always like to see the GOPe sales staff come by.  Did you help yourself to the ice water and cookies?  We don't want you telling your democrat overlords we didn't treat you nicely.
 

Overseers, and overlords on the lib plantation.

[Chris_]

To respond to your comments - If we tie minimum wage to inflation, we stop libs from the ability to raise it to ruinous levels.

If the minimum wage were tied to inflation with the passing of the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act, it would be $4.15 today.

[freedumb2003b]

Overseers, and overlords on the lib plantation.

I should have asked for a spiritual...

Maybe Da Camp Town Ladies...?

[obumazombie]

I should have asked for a spiritual...

Maybe Da Camp Town Ladies...?

Doo dah
Doo dah !

[DefiantSix]

I should have asked for a spiritual...

Maybe Da Camp Town Ladies...?

[freedumb2003b]

You are right.

It should have been "Da Camp Town RACES"

If moochele had been one of them then it would have been impossible to discern ladies vs. horses.

[txradioguy]

Gallup poll from fall 2013. 3 in 4 Americans support a minimum wage of $9 per hour. 7 in 10 support tying minimum wage to inflation.

Link?

A lot of economic arguments made on this thread are sound, but economics does not win elections, politics win elections.

That's very naive of you and shows that you've completely failed to do your homework on elections and what drives voters.

When you look every year at the results of surveys of what is the biggest concern to voters...it's not Liberal pet projects like Amnesty or this minimum wage crap or even health care.  
It's economics. Both their own and the country's as a whole.

If you win an argument but lose an election, I would call that a fail. I said before, let's take this card out of play and reduce Democrat votes.

And that kind of moronic thinking is exactly why the GOP is in the mess it's in right now.   It didn't work on the debt ceiling amnesty or (insert pet Dem issue here). They still keep their voters and they still crucify the GOP.

You really didn't think this through did you?

[NHSparky]

I do not advocate an increase to $10. Based on increases in the median wage and social security over the past 30 years, the matching increase for the minimum wage would be up to $8.50-$9.50. Employers have historically paid this level before, they would not be giving up more than the amount they have paid in the past.

Also, all workers under age 18 should make 70-80% of the minimum wage. This would minimize the economic impact. It would not be as bad as the impact of the too high Democrat proposal. Also, only 2-3% of workers make minimum wage, it is just not that big a segment of the economy.

Remember, this argument is based on politics, not economics. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the past 6 elections the last three elections. Republican wins were against Mondale, Dukakis, and Kerry, the political equivalents of the three stooges or it could maybe have been worse. Just like Democrats shoot themselves in the foot when they fight the second amendment, Republicans damage their brand when they fight minimum wage. I say index it to inflation and take it off the table of potential Democrat talking points.

Conservatives are 35% of the population. Liberals are 25%. The rest is the squishy middle who gets to decide who wins the presidency. A despite there being fewer liberals than conservatives, the libs do a better job at getting moderates to vote for them. We don't need the type of candidate like Goldwater who was a darling to staunched conservatives and lost. We need the type of candidate like Reagan who was conservative but was still appealing to moderates.

Better to yield on a relatively low impact issue like minimum wage so we can take the presidency and control a high impact issue like appoint Supreme Court Justices.

Minimum wage is not the hill to die on.

Again, even "only" $8.50/hour is a raise of 17-18 percent.  Again, Gern's question still applies.  Can business survive?  How can lower-income workers not be replaced or fired in droves?

[FiddlingAnt]

Link?

That's very naive of you and shows that you've completely failed to do your homework on elections and what drives voters.

When you look every year at the results of surveys of what is the biggest concern to voters...it's not Liberal pet projects like Amnesty or this minimum wage crap or even health care.  
It's economics. Both their own and the country's as a whole.

And that kind of moronic thinking is exactly why the GOP is in the mess it's in right now.   It didn't work on the debt ceiling amnesty or (insert pet Dem issue here). They still keep their voters and they still crucify the GOP.

You really didn't think this through did you?

Link to Gallup poll on minimum wage - http://www.gallup.com/poll/165794/americans-raising-minimum-wage.aspx

If economics trumped politics, we wouldn't have a 17 trillion dollar national debt.

Minimum wage earners are less than 3% of American workers.  The economic impact of moving min wage back to where it once was is not that great. The best solution to get a conservative Republican elected to president who will support strong economic polices that will result in a strong economy where the demand for workers is increased to the point where everyone will earn more than minimum wage because of a strong economy with low unemployment.  This can't happen if we keep electing Democrats who promote wide scale policies that damage the entire economy.

[FiddlingAnt]

Again, even "only" $8.50/hour is a raise of 17-18 percent.  Again, Gern's question still applies.  Can business survive?  How can lower-income workers not be replaced or fired in droves?

What happened to revenues in the past when minimum wage earners lost 17-18% of wages relative to inflation? It either was passed on to the buyers or taken in higher profits and they survived just fine. Businesses have been able to manage a minimum wage at this relative rate in the past. I am not advocating increasing minimum wage to a rate higher than it has ever been in the past.

Yes, increasing minimum wage will result in fewer workers, no doubt, at least until a Republican lead environment for economic growth is possible. But if we lock it to the inflation rate, we don't have an issue with this in the future and we don't create a gap to be filled by extra welfare program payments when minimum wage lags inflation. Lets have people pay for more of their own living expenses, not less.

[txradioguy]

Link to Gallup poll on minimum wage - http://www.gallup.com/poll/165794/americans-raising-minimum-wage.aspx

So a two day survey of 1,000 people is your rock solid basis for a misguided theory that it's the right thing to do for the GOP to get behind raising the minimum wage?

 

I notice you left out in your little 'argument' that nearly 60% of alleged Republicans polled said they were against tying raises to inflation.

You're not making any kind of Conservative argument you're making a populist argument.  You want the GOP to stick it's finger in the wind to check direction and craft policies that lean that way at that moment.

In essence you want an establishment RINO to run and lose again.  Because two consecutive crushing defeats aren't enough for you.

If economics trumped politics, we wouldn't have a 17 trillion dollar national debt.

If politicians talked about economics and showed the people voting for them they understood economics they'd get past the politics.  As it is most of the COngress Critters have never held a job outside the beltway so they don't understand economics....they don't understand what it takes to run a small business and they can't comprehend why forcing businesses to raise what they pay hourly workers is bad for their bottom line.

Oh and we'd stil have debt.  Just not as much.  Despite the propaganda to the contrary...it's not good for a nation to hoarde a surplus.

Minimum wage earners are less than 3% of American workers.

 

And yet idiots like you think this is a national concern.  It's not.  And of those 3% nearly two thirds of them are HS and college age kids working while they go to school.

So please remind me again why this is something that needs to be on the national stage every day and night?

The economic impact of moving min wage back to where it once was is not that great.

Small business owners and larger size businesses with a pool of hourly workers would strongly disagree.

The best solution to get a conservative Republican elected to president who will support strong economic polices that will result in a strong economy where the demand for workers is increased to the point where everyone will earn more than minimum wage because of a strong economy with low unemployment

Do you realize that the greatest Conservative to hold the office of President pushed a plan to split the minimum wage in two? 

The best solution to getting a Conservative Republican elected is to stand behind a Conservative Republican.  Not these watered down mealy mouthed pretenders.  Not by supporting Jeb Bush or Chris Christie.

Strong economic policies do NOT include the Federal Government forcing businesses to raise the minimum wage.  True Conservatives know that weakens the economy and hamstrings employers and consumers alike because when the wage goes up...so do the costs of the good and services provided.

It's a basic economic concept you fail to grasp while you push this feel good populist crap.

This can't happen if we keep electing Democrats who promote wide scale policies that damage the entire economy.

It won't happen either if...as you propose...we have candidates for the GOP nomination who push Democrat policy ideas as their own.

[txradioguy]

What happened to revenues in the past when minimum wage earners lost 17-18% of wages relative to inflation? It either was passed on to the buyers or taken in higher profits and they survived just fine. Businesses have been able to manage a minimum wage at this relative rate in the past. I am not advocating increasing minimum wage to a rate higher than it has ever been in the past.

Yes, increasing minimum wage will result in fewer workers, no doubt, at least until a Republican lead environment for economic growth is possible. But if we lock it to the inflation rate, we don't have an issue with this in the future and we don't create a gap to be filled by extra welfare program payments when minimum wage lags inflation. Lets have people pay for more of their own living expenses, not less.

You talk like a GOP consultant.  You're spouting the very thigns that have lost us the last two Presidential elections.

You want to stimulate the economy and get companies hiring people again?  Get rid of Obamacare.  Get the EPA out of the law writing game and bring the tax rates down.  Those three things right there would go a long way towards a real economic recovery.

Not some stupid and unnecessary minimum wage hike.

[Wineslob]

Who in their right mind thinks they can raise a family on minimum wage?

Nevermind.....

Only DUmmies that want to stay on it.

[FiddlingAnt]

You talk like a GOP consultant.  You're spouting the very thigns that have lost us the last two Presidential elections.

You want to stimulate the economy and get companies hiring people again?  Get rid of Obamacare.  Get the EPA out of the law writing game and bring the tax rates down.  Those three things right there would go a long way towards a real economic recovery.

Not some stupid and unnecessary minimum wage hike.

I agree that doing the three things you recommend would go a long way towards a real economic recovery which is why we need for the next president to be a conservative Republican who appeals to moderate voters. I am not sure how GOP consultants lost the past two Presidential elections. Romney got a higher percentage of conservatives voting for him than Reagan did.  Tacking even farther to the right in the general election would not have helped, he got more votes than conservative senators running for reelection in those states, but he still did not win enough moderates. Reagan's margin for victory was his appeal to moderates.

I am being repetitive, but we conservatives are only 35% of the population. We will only gain the presidency again when we can get another 16% of voters to choose Right over Left.

Taking minimum wage off of the table is like losing a pawn in chess. If it puts you in position to win the game, make the move.

[freedumb2003b]

I agree that doing the three things you recommend would go a long way towards a real economic recovery which is why we need for the next president to be a conservative Republican who appeals to moderate voters. I am not sure how GOP consultants lost the past two Presidential elections. Romney got a higher percentage of conservatives voting for him than Reagan did.  Tacking even farther to the right in the general election would not have helped, he got more votes than conservative senators running for reelection in those states, but he still did not win enough moderates. Reagan's margin for victory was his appeal to moderates.

I am being repetitive, but we conservatives are only 35% of the population. We will only gain the presidency again when we can get another 16% of voters to choose Right over Left.

Taking minimum wage off of the table is like losing a pawn in chess. If it puts you in position to win the game, make the move.

Unless you have PRINCIPLES.

[FiddlingAnt]

Unless you have PRINCIPLES.

Losing should not be a principle.

[obumazombie]

Losing should not be a principle.

Are you saying to win at all costs ?
Or are you saying the ends justify the means ?

[txradioguy]

I agree that doing the three things you recommend would go a long way towards a real economic recovery which is why we need for the next president to be a conservative Republican who appeals to moderate voters.

We've tried that approach...appealing to the moderates.  You know what it got us?  Jimmy Carter Bill Clinton and our current President.

How about we nominate a candidate who fires up the base?  You get out the base and the rest will follow.  Reagan proved that in two of the biggest landslide victories this country has ever wittnessed.

I am not sure how GOP consultants lost the past two Presidential elections.

You don't?  See John McCain and Mitt Romney.  The candidates the consultants told us we had to nominate in order to win.

How well did that work out?

Romney got a higher percentage of conservatives voting for him than Reagan did.

 

No he didn't.  There were seven million more GOP voters who stayed home in 2012.  KNow who those voters were?  Disenfranchised REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE VOTERS.



Tacking even farther to the right in the general election would not have helped, he got more votes than conservative senators running for reelection in those states, but he still did not win enough moderates.

Reagan's margin for victory was his appeal to moderates.

You really are a special kindof stupid aren't you?

Reagans margins of victory were the result of sticking to his Conservative principals when every one with your backwrds ass mindset was saying he'd never wind and that we needed a Howard Baker or George H.W. Bush moderate/establishment type to win.

He sent out a message that reached across all political spectrums...he had a definite articulated plan and he wasn't afraid to go after his opponemt.  Neither McCain nor Romney had the spine to do that and none of the establishment/consutalt favorites for 2016 do either.

The people that are out there that reperesent true Conservative values are being excoriated by the likes of you and the other middle of the road squish Republicans.

I am being repetitive, but we conservatives are only 35% of the population. We will only gain the presidency again when we can get another 16% of voters to choose Right over Left.

First you aren't Conservative.  No matter how many times you repeat it...it doesn't make it so.  You're an establishment/Rockerfeller Republican who thinks we need to be more like the Democrats in order to win.

Secondly 35% is on the low end of the estimations and it's still 10% more than those that identify themselves as Liberal.

Take a look around you...you're in a political forum with what constitutes a good representation of the GOP base...and you're the only one agreeing with yourself on what needs to be done.  There are hard core Republicans here....Reagan Republicans who have stopped donating stopped supporting and in some cases sadly stopped voting GOP because of the idiot ideas like the ones you're coming up with.

This country...outside the beltway...in the heartland doesn't like what Liberals are doing to this country and they hate what establishment types are proposing because it's just as bad.

Who do the normal people flock to because of shared similiar interests and beliefs?  The TEA Party.  The grass roots group establishment types like you despise.  The ONLY reason we were able to wrest control of the House back from the Libtards in 2010.

History repeats istself and those that don't learn from it are doomed to repeat it.  In 1974 and in 1979 the so called GOP "experts" dumped on Reagan.  Look what happened.  1976 he came within 100 delegates of dethroning a sitting President at the Convention and in 1980 he went on to the third largest victory margin in U.S. history.  And he showed the establishment types like you how wrong you are.

Taking minimum wage off of the table is like losing a pawn in chess. If it puts you in position to win the game, make the move.

You won't win the "game"...and quite frankly that's all it is to you...by forcing small business to shed 500,000 to one million jobs.  There is no long term benefit financially or economically to anyone by raising the minimum wage.  It's a dumb move all around.  And it hurts the people that are supposedly helped by it by setting a wage that eliminates them from being considered for employment.

You just don't get it do you?

[txradioguy]

Are you saying to win at all costs ?
Or are you saying the ends justify the means ?

No he's touting the establishment line that we have to be more like the Dems if we want to win.

[txradioguy]

To respond to your comments - If we tie minimum wage to inflation, we stop libs from the ability to raise it to ruinous levels. We take the tent away from the camel.

You're an idiot if you REALLY think they'll stop.  Not to mention you have no clue about recent history.  We give the Dems what they...then they come back and say it's not enough and suddenly we're once again the heartless bastards we were before we caved trying to make people like us.

If 100% free market principals were alive in America there would be no public schools and no social security.  But we have to work with the society we have. If all conservatives vote, we get 35% of the vote.  If all liberals vote, they get 25% of the vote.  We have to throw enough bones to the moderates, or the libs will keep winning presidential elections.

That right there is a bunch of GOP Consultant bullshit.  That kind of thinking is the reason the current President is in his second term in office when he should have NEVER had a first term.

Anyone who has read the other posts I have shared in this forum can clearly see I am no lib.

We've read your posts.  You're a Lib.  You're not Conservative.

I just happen to be a conservative that hates to see us lose elections.  Conservative ideas and values have always been better for America than the train wrecks caused by liberals and progressives. As long as liberals keep winning elections for the presidency and the senate, conservatives can't stop their destructive programs. Let's work on winning and not shooting ourselves in the foot.

If you truly believe that...then I expect to see you throw your support behind a truly Conservative nominee for President this year.  Someone like Ted Cruz, Rand Paul. Sarah Palin Alan West etc.

Chris Christie or some other squish RINO will only get us President Hillary Clinton in 2016.

A Goldwater conservative stays 100% true to his values and loses. A Reagan conservative knows what actions to take to attract enough moderates to win elections. We need more Reagans here and fewer Goldwaters.

Reagan was a Goldwater acolyte you moron.  He won espousing the same things that Goldwater did in 1964 when Reagan got out and stumped for him.  Reagan didn't change one core principal or value from 1964 to when he took the Oath of President in 1980.

You need to quit trying to rewrite history. 

Oh and BTW...Reagan not only tried to lower the minimum wage....he tried to split it into two categories.

[snazuolu]

we will NEVER see a true conservative pres or congressman ever again in this country. thats a cold hard fact. i dont like it either, but its reality. the issue with min wage is merely a SYMPTOM of whats really going on. on one hand, you ppl on here are advocating working at whatever job comes your way. the libs are advocating an increase in min wage. the truth is that there are NO middle class jobs anymore. and the jobs that have been lost are NOT coming back!! there are ppl out there who have been laid off from saw mills who think gee it'll be great when it reopens. NOT going to happen.

when you give in to the libs by advocating everyone just clean the shitters at walmart to survive, you are letting the libs and obama WIN. what we are experiencing shouldnt have surprised anyone. this was always the goal. and as far as getting experience or skills.... what good does it do to have a skill and noone to hire you?? i worked in electronics from 93- 2008. have a degree in electronics, and yet i couldnt find a job in electronics right now if my life depended on it. problem is.. the establishment republicans still want you to believe in the American dream. the American dream of the 50's is GONE and its NOT coming back.

[wasp69]

we will NEVER see a true conservative pres or congressman ever again in this country. thats a cold hard fact. i dont like it either, but its reality. the issue with min wage is merely a SYMPTOM of whats really going on. on one hand, you ppl on here are advocating working at whatever job comes your way. the libs are advocating an increase in min wage. the truth is that there are NO middle class jobs anymore. and the jobs that have been lost are NOT coming back!! there are ppl out there who have been laid off from saw mills who think gee it'll be great when it reopens. NOT going to happen.

when you give in to the libs by advocating everyone just clean the shitters at walmart to survive, you are letting the libs and obama WIN. what we are experiencing shouldnt have surprised anyone. this was always the goal. and as far as getting experience or skills.... what good does it do to have a skill and noone to hire you?? i worked in electronics from 93- 2008. have a degree in electronics, and yet i couldnt find a job in electronics right now if my life depended on it. problem is.. the establishment republicans still want you to believe in the American dream. the American dream of the 50's is GONE and its NOT coming back.

This post reminds me of the shortest book I ever read:  "Useful employment tips from the voluntarily homeless".  Followed closely by the second shortest:  "This 'ol box:  'True Conservative' advice from the guy living behind the dumpster".

Has anyone else ever read these books?

[Dori]

we will NEVER see a true conservative pres or congressman ever again in this country. thats a cold hard fact. i dont like it either, but its reality. the issue with min wage is merely a SYMPTOM of whats really going on. on one hand, you ppl on here are advocating working at whatever job comes your way. the libs are advocating an increase in min wage. the truth is that there are NO middle class jobs anymore. and the jobs that have been lost are NOT coming back!! there are ppl out there who have been laid off from saw mills who think gee it'll be great when it reopens. NOT going to happen.

when you give in to the libs by advocating everyone just clean the shitters at walmart to survive, you are letting the libs and obama WIN. what we are experiencing shouldnt have surprised anyone. this was always the goal. and as far as getting experience or skills.... what good does it do to have a skill and noone to hire you?? i worked in electronics from 93- 2008. have a degree in electronics, and yet i couldnt find a job in electronics right now if my life depended on it. problem is.. the establishment republicans still want you to believe in the American dream. the American dream of the 50's is GONE and its NOT coming back.

Your the one that said you couldn't get a job at minimum wage at a Walmart.  I also suspect that most of us here are blue collar workers, and most of us have also started out making minimum wage.

I don't know what your real problems are in not finding employment, but you're in a library.  Maybe you should use this time studying something useful, like sentence/paragraph structure and punctuation.