The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dandi on November 21, 2013, 09:23:11 PM
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I don't know if you've noticed or not, but there have been multiple threads over the past year, from DU's rabid harridans, decrying the emphasis on teaching women how to protect themselves and be proactive in avoiding situations that make them a target for sexual assault. Instead, they want to replace that, which they claim is tantamount to "blaming the victim", with insipid public service announcements geared towards men which explain that, "Rape is wrong, mmkay?" First, it the height of stupidity to assume that every guy old enough to know the definition of rape doesn't already know it's wrong. Second, it is stupidly dangerous to refrain from teaching women, or men for that matter, basic common sense strategies for protecting oneself from violent crime.
It's not at all sexist to suggest a girl should not drink herself into unconsciousness at a college frat party full of drunk and stupid co-eds. It's not blaming the victim to warn a female against walking through a high crime area at night wearing skimpy, alluring clothes. It's not dealing a hammer blow against the emancipation of women to advise situational awareness at all times when traveling alone or being in isolated spots. We used to call that "common sense". However, in an agony of political correctness, the Feminazis, at least the peculiar DU brand of Feminazi, cannot bring themselves to require women to take any hand in their own safety. It's as if they would honestly rather see women assaulted than have it explained to them how they can avoid it.
Perhaps one of the DU bra burners could explain how a subway poster or 10-second TV spot telling men "Don't rape" would have had a better chance of saving this poor woman from the little monster who attacked her than good lesson in situational awareness or some tools for self-defense, including a (gasp!) firearm and the training to use it. There may well have been nothing that could have saved this poor woman in this particular instance, but generally speaking, anything is better than a slogan and a hope that it appeals to the "better angels of one's nature." I've been waiting for DU's most rabid Feminazi, seabeyond, to show up in this thread, wagging her spittle-flecked chin, but she hasn't had the nerve, I guess.
cali (90,128 posts)
the worst is true: MA teacher raped before being murdered by 14 year old student
A 14-year-old boy last month allegedly raped Danvers High School teacher Colleen Ritzer inside a second-floor bathroom of the school before murdering her and dumping her body in a nearby wooded area, prosecutors said today.
Philip D. Chism was indicted by an Essex County grand jury today on charges of first-degree murder, aggravated rape and armed robbery, according to Essex District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett’s office. Chism allegedly attacked Ritzer when she stayed after school to talk with him about an upcoming exam, according to prosecutors and students who were in the building that day.
“The indictments returned today detail horrific and unspeakable acts,†Blodgett said in a statement. “This is the first step in a long process to secure justice for Ms. Ritzer and her family.â€
Chism is facing the murder charge as an adult. He was indicted as a youthful offender on the rape and armed robbery charges. The latter charges will initially be handled in Salem Juvenile Court, but prosecutors said they “would move to join these indictments with the murder indictment in Superior Court.â€
<snip>
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/11/21/philip-chism-accused-raping-murdering-danvers-high-teacher-colleen-ritzer/jGdMVl1PumhF39uZ7lrbIN/story.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024071944
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cali (90,128 posts)
the worst is true: MA teacher raped before being murdered by 14 year old student
If Obama had a son, he'd look like Philip D. Chism.
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If Obama had a son, he'd look like Philip D. Chism.
If only Philip D. Chism had been carrying Skittles and iced tea. They render the consumer totally innocent and incapable of violence.
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If only Philip D. Chism had been carrying Skittles and iced tea. They render the consumer totally innocent and incapable of violence.
If only that poor young teacher had been carrying a Glock 19. They render Obama's sons incapable of violence.
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If only that poor young teacher had been carrying a Glock 19. They render Obama's sons incapable of violence.
Quite effectively.
The irony is, if young Mssr. Chism had been shot, he would have become a DU hero, equal to St. Trayvon Of Skittles. An innocent teen who died due to a bloodthirsty gun culture and a maniac teacher who couldn't wait to kill a black child with her artificial penis.
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If only that poor young teacher had been carrying a Glock 19. They render Obama's sons incapable of violence.
Hell, she could have been carrying a Beretta 21 and it would have had the same effect.
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the worst is true
Awwww..... Shot the shit out of your teabagger meme before it got out of the gate.
Too bad. :bird:
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I just read all the responses in that DUmmy thread. Most of them are bemoaning the rapist/torturer/murder being tried as an adult '...his frontal lobe isn't fully deloped...', '...maybe he can be rehabilitated if he's put in some sort of juvenile therapy program until he's 21 or 25...' (not exact quotes, but stuff along that line of thinking).
No one has mentioned this being a black on white crime, nor have they wondered why Rev Al hasn't come to protest the heinousness of a crime committed by an obamason.
I am no longer surprised that I'm not surprised by the DUmmies.
On edit: If a group of college students can be charged with a "hate crime" for putting a bicycle lock/chain around another student's neck and calling him "3/5", why doesn't this rape/murder of a white teacher count also, especially with “The indictments returned today detail horrific and unspeakable acts"?
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Hell, she could have been carrying a Beretta 21 and it would have had the same effect.
That is true. A handful of well-placed .22s or .25s would take care of that ghettotude. I had just watched Glock's "Picked the wrong girl" commercial, so I had the Glock 19 in my mind.
One of the joys in my life is teaching women to use the tools of self-defense, and watching their attitudes change as they grow from sheep to lionesses.
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On edit: If a group of college students can be charged with a "hate crime" for putting a bicycle lock/chain around another student's neck and calling him "3/5", why doesn't this rape/murder of a white teacher count also, especially with “The indictments returned today detail horrific and unspeakable acts"?
Because some animals are more equal than others.
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One of the joys in my life is teaching women to use the tools of self-defense, and watching their attitudes change as they grow from sheep to lionesses.
Thank you for your service.
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That is true. A handful of well-placed .22s or .25s would take care of that ghettotude. I had just watched Glock's "Picked the wrong girl" commercial, so I had the Glock 19 in my mind.
One of the joys in my life is teaching women to use the tools of self-defense, and watching their attitudes change as they grow from sheep to lionesses.
BD, a single well-placed .22LR or .25 ACP could have stopped it. Especially at damn near contact ranges.
I'm trying to get my wife to apply for her handgun permit. It's similar to pulling teeth from a great white shark.
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I just read all the responses in that DUmmy thread. Most of them are bemoaning the rapist/torturer/murder being tried as an adult '...his frontal lobe isn't fully deloped...', '...maybe he can be rehabilitated if he's put in some sort of juvenile therapy program until he's 21 or 25...' (not exact quotes, but stuff along that line of thinking).
No one has mentioned this being a black on white crime, nor have they wondered why Rev Al hasn't come to protest the heinousness of a crime committed by an obamason.
I am no longer surprised that I'm not surprised by the DUmmies.
On edit: If a group of college students can be charged with a "hate crime" for putting a bicycle lock/chain around another student's neck and calling him "3/5", why doesn't this rape/murder of a white teacher count also, especially with “The indictments returned today detail horrific and unspeakable acts"?
Knowing that rape and murder are wrong doesn't take a whole lot of brain development. The fact that a 14 year would even make the decision to go rape and murder his teacher tells me that we shouldn't wait until he is an adult to find out how much more twisted his brain can become.
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I just read all the responses in that DUmmy thread. Most of them are bemoaning the rapist/torturer/murder being tried as an adult '...his frontal lobe isn't fully deloped...', '...maybe he can be rehabilitated if he's put in some sort of juvenile therapy program until he's 21 or 25...' (not exact quotes, but stuff along that line of thinking).
He slit her throat with a box cutter.
What kind of monster is capable of that?
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Knowing that rape and murder are wrong doesn't take a whole lot of brain development. The fact that a 14 year would even make the decision to go rape and murder his teacher tells me that we shouldn't wait until he is an adult to find out how much more twisted his brain can become.
You know why kids this young pull shit this sick?
Because they know they can, and there's relatively little the system can or will do about it, thanks to the bleeding hearts that say we have to "understand" them.
Uh, no, I don't--I don't know why a dog goes mad. I just know that you put it down.
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Put him on a "dog run" and sell chances to shoot at him from a 1,000 yards.....worst shooters go first.
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Put him on a "dog run" and sell chances to shoot at him from a 1,000 yards.....worst shooters go first.
Make it 10 yards--and give the worst shooters a riot gun. O-) :-) :whistling:
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BainsBane (19,853 posts)
1. It's a horrific crime, but 14 is not an adult
He should not be tried as an adult.
**** you, DUmbass. He should be taken out and dispatched like the rabid dog he is. :bird:
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BainsBane (19,853 posts)
1. It's a horrific crime, but 14 is not an adult
He should not be tried as an adult.
What Rebel said is the solution
He should be taken out and dispatched like the rabid dog he is.
Why waste taxpayer money and legal system time, just do it.
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BD, a single well-placed .22LR or .25 ACP could have stopped it. Especially at damn near contact ranges.
I'm trying to get my wife to apply for her handgun permit. It's similar to pulling teeth from a great white shark.
Why? I thought New York just passed some of the strictest gun laws in the U.S.. Violent crime should be in the basement by now. Bloomberg would not lie to me would he? sarc.
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BD, a single well-placed .22LR or .25 ACP could have stopped it. Especially at damn near contact ranges.
You're right, it could have.
Half a dozen pencil sized holes in an asshole's face, neck, and chest, instead of just one, increases the probability of ending the attack immediately.
I'm trying to get my wife to apply for her handgun permit. It's similar to pulling teeth from a great white shark.
Good luck!
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You're right, it could have.
Half a dozen pencil sized holes in an asshole's face, neck, and chest, instead of just one, increases the probability of ending the attack immediately.
Good luck!
Yeah--the probability goes up exponentially with each hole. :killemall:
I prefer a riot gun--but you knew that. O-)
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Where is the woodchipper when it's needed ? A proper analgesic could help to fit into the spirit of cruel and unusual.
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Yeah--the probability goes up exponentially with each hole. :killemall:
I prefer a riot gun--but you knew that. O-)
Oh, yeah. I'm with you there.
Nine .36 caliber lead balls, every time I pull the trigger. It warms my heathen heart.
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Oh, yeah. I'm with you there.
Nine .36 caliber lead balls, every time I pull the trigger. It warms my heathen heart.
I kinda prefer the 27-each .24-caliber lead ball load, myself. :whistling: :fuelfire: O-)
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I kinda prefer the 27-each .24-caliber lead ball load, myself. :whistling: :fuelfire: O-)
(http://www.stonerarms.com/catalog/images/coexist-firearm-gun-manufacturer-logo-sticker.jpg)
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(http://www.stonerarms.com/catalog/images/coexist-firearm-gun-manufacturer-logo-sticker.jpg)
:cheersmate: :lmao: :rofl: :rotf: :hi5:
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Imagine if it were a white young man that did this to a black teacher?
The DUmp would be calling for blood.
As to that the black stripper bitch that all the racists framed the Duke Lacrosse team for was sentenced to 14-20 years for second degree murder today.
But that's different because .....BLACK.!!!
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:cheersmate: :lmao: :rofl: :rotf: :hi5:
I have that bumper sticker on the back of my truck.
My big, black, 4 wheel drive Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab that guzzles gas like Pitt guzzles cheap rye; with an overhead rifle rack, an onboard humidor, and six coffee cup holders for me alone. The truck with its own ZIP code: 666-Oh-Oh My God. The truck which raises the Earth's temperature one degree every time I start it, with tires that can smoosh a dozen baby harp seals at once- so those damn baby harp seals had best avoid Kansas!
My truck would be a character in a Steven King novel, if Steven King actually had any balls.
AKA the DUmmyslayer.
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I kinda prefer the 27-each .24-caliber lead ball load, myself. :whistling: :fuelfire: O-)
One thing I have noticed in my so far long life is for some reason boys are never to hit girls. Well the girls hear this and think they are safe, even to attacking a male and expect him to not fight back.
Then we have the men that know survival and do not walk down a dark street wearing a bunch of expensive jewelry and a wad of money in their pocket. However woman do so believing they can do so as they are woman and no male will attack them. SURPRISE.
A testamen to to days society Took awhile for straight men to realize they too can be raped, robbed, if they are in the wrong part of town.
I never gave a thought to speaking to my boys about rape or even child molesting. My girls were the same, I thought they were safe in the hands of the schools and the Church.
Rape to me was caused by woman that were in a place they should avoided, or having it by a known person, or a woman that had her house broken into.
This was all so long ago, today both men and woman can be raped and murdered by someone that just picks them at random. I suppose this has been going on for a long time but with the internet we hear about it as we could not hear from the local newspaper 30 years ago.
Now my Big question----------- Why cannot a boy hit a girl if she is acting like a boy or bully ?
If a male is threatened by anyone why can they not fight back ??
On the other hand, this teacher that I wish I had had in Algebra or any math class felt safe running alone on this path. Was she so secure in her life to just go jogging alone ? Was she so secure in her life that she did not have to take any precautions for her safety ?
Did she not wear seat belts in her car, own a fire extinguisher in her home or smoke alarms. Beats the hell out of me why men or woman will head for a running path alone with no protection from what may come.
So what could she have done, had she carried a piece would that have helped, or had she a dog say a Shepard running with her, I do not think that the people attacked had the a dog with them would ever been attacked.
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One thing I have noticed in my so far long life is for some reason boys are never to hit girls. Well the girls hear this and think they are safe, even to attacking a male and expect him to not fight back.
Then we have the men that know survival and do not walk down a dark street wearing a bunch of expensive jewelry and a wad of money in their pocket. However woman do so believing they can do so as they are woman and no male will attack them. SURPRISE.
A testamen to to days society Took awhile for straight men to realize they too can be raped, robbed, if they are in the wrong part of town.
I never gave a thought to speaking to my boys about rape or even child molesting. My girls were the same, I thought they were safe in the hands of the schools and the Church.
Rape to me was caused by woman that were in a place they should avoided, or having it by a known person, or a woman that had her house broken into.
This was all so long ago, today both men and woman can be raped and murdered by someone that just picks them at random. I suppose this has been going on for a long time but with the internet we hear about it as we could not hear from the local newspaper 30 years ago.
Now my Big question----------- Why cannot a boy hit a girl if she is acting like a boy or bully ?
If a male is threatened by anyone why can they not fight back ??
On the other hand, this teacher that I wish I had had in Algebra or any math class felt safe running alone on this path. Was she so secure in her life to just go jogging alone ? Was she so secure in her life that she did not have to take any precautions for her safety ?
Did she not wear seat belts in her car, own a fire extinguisher in her home or smoke alarms. Beats the hell out of me why men or woman will head for a running path alone with no protection from what may come.
So what could she have done, had she carried a piece would that have helped, or had she a dog say a Shepard running with her, I do not think that the people attacked had the a dog with them would ever been attacked.
You know the answers to your questions.
You already have them in your mind.
Perhaps you should answer them for us.
Gitcha some.
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(http://www.stonerarms.com/catalog/images/coexist-firearm-gun-manufacturer-logo-sticker.jpg)
That's a tough banner to coexist by, if you are lawless. If you are lawless then you deserve some pew, pew, pew action !
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That's a tough banner to coexist by, if you are lawless. If you are lawless then you deserve some pew, pew, pew action !
I was talking about coexisting with BSS. He says "#4 Buck", I say "OO Buck". The bad guys get to hear "pew, pew, pew"!
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Where is the woodchipper when it's needed ? A proper analgesic could help to fit into the spirit of cruel and unusual.
HEY thats my line!.... :cheersmate:
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I have that bumper sticker on the back of my truck.
My big, black, 4 wheel drive Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab that guzzles gas like Pitt guzzles cheap rye; with an overhead rifle rack, an onboard humidor, and six coffee cup holders for me alone. The truck with its own ZIP code: 666-Oh-Oh My God. The truck which raises the Earth's temperature one degree every time I start it, with tires that can smoosh a dozen baby harp seals at once- so those damn baby harp seals had best avoid Kansas!
My truck would be a character in a Steven King novel, if Steven King actually had any balls.
AKA the DUmmyslayer.
The only thing that would make that more awesome is if it was a chipped Diesel Ram. You would be rolling coal all the way down the road looking like a volcano.... :rotf:
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I have that bumper sticker on the back of my truck.
My big, black, 4 wheel drive Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab that guzzles gas like Pitt guzzles cheap rye; with an overhead rifle rack, an onboard humidor, and six coffee cup holders for me alone. The truck with its own ZIP code: 666-Oh-Oh My God. The truck which raises the Earth's temperature one degree every time I start it, with tires that can smoosh a dozen baby harp seals at once- so those damn baby harp seals had best avoid Kansas!
My truck would be a character in a Steven King novel, if Steven King actually had any balls.
AKA the DUmmyslayer.
Impressive. :-)
Not that I could ever own anything like that, but I had the idea to hang black fringe above a rifle rack mounted on the back window of my truck. A black Ford f-150 flair side. I love driving that thing.
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HEY thats my line!.... :cheersmate:
(Sheepishly)...I borrowed it...a little...
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HEHE thats ok you are good company!
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DUmpmonkey wymyns would be better off they didn't wear "Rape me", tee shirts.
Might even be better if the didn't have "please". below that.
After seeing some of their pictures, I don't think my pet squirrels would hump their thumb.
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DUmpmonkey wymyns would be better off they didn't wear "Rape me", tee shirts.
Might even be better if the didn't have "please". below that.
After seeing some of their pictures, I don't think my pet squirrels would hump their thumb.
Strange thought,
How about sweat shirts that read-------Warning I have a CCW medical problem.
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You left your sense of humor at home.. Go back.
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I do wish there *was* more education about rape given to men. Like, telling your boys that alcohol might make it easier for them to get angry or otherwise respond inappropriately when their date says no. That a girl just laying there might not be enjoying it, and it doesn't hurt anything to stop and say "Honey, are you okay?" Get them talking, and make sure they're still okay with what's going on. Some women freeze up, especially if crud happened when they were kids, and body language is a good indicator.
Along with this: Teaching boys that sex with drunk girls isn't very fun. Who wants to get puked on? If your date is stumbling, wearing evidence of vomit, slurring, and wanting sex -- she might not remember it the next day and feel raped. It's just plain safer for men not to screw drunk chicks.
But the point of the "Stop teaching women how to not get raped" is that when you *have* been a victim of an obvious sexual assault ("legitimately raped", as many say), you will *always* blame yourself. I shouldn't have worn that skirt. I shouldn't have drank enough that my radar was low (a good thing to not do in the future, but still not making the rape her fault). I shouldn't have walked down that path. I should have had an alarm system. I should have taken self-defense classes (a good thing to do in the future, but still not making the rape her fault that she didn't already have the training). I should have been perfect, and maybe then some other person wouldn't have decided to violate my body.
We tell ourselves those type of things anyway, we don't need society saying them too (except the "don't drink too much" to both sexes and self-defense classes that can be helpful if someone mugs you).
And a gun does nothing to help someone who doesn't have proper training in its use. If you're arming your wives, I presume you're taking them to the range at least twice a month to get their practice in, and also practicing how to deal with a misfeed or a doublefeed if they're using a semi-auto. My sister uses a revolver because she could never get the knack of clearing a jam quickly enough on my (now hers, and if anyone else wants it it's only had about 500 rounds through it... Kimber Ultra Aegis II, she might sell it for $1000 -- yes, we were inducing jams in the clear drills), it has never jammed once while I was just shooting.
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I do wish there *was* more education about rape given to men. Like, telling your boys that alcohol might make it easier for them to get angry or otherwise respond inappropriately when their date says no. That a girl just laying there might not be enjoying it, and it doesn't hurt anything to stop and say "Honey, are you okay?" Get them talking, and make sure they're still okay with what's going on. Some women freeze up, especially if crud happened when they were kids, and body language is a good indicator.
Along with this: Teaching boys that sex with drunk girls isn't very fun. Who wants to get puked on? If your date is stumbling, wearing evidence of vomit, slurring, and wanting sex -- she might not remember it the next day and feel raped. It's just plain safer for men not to screw drunk chicks.
But the point of the "Stop teaching women how to not get raped" is that when you *have* been a victim of an obvious sexual assault ("legitimately raped", as many say), you will *always* blame yourself. I shouldn't have worn that skirt. I shouldn't have drank enough that my radar was low (a good thing to not do in the future, but still not making the rape her fault). I shouldn't have walked down that path. I should have had an alarm system. I should have taken self-defense classes (a good thing to do in the future, but still not making the rape her fault that she didn't already have the training). I should have been perfect, and maybe then some other person wouldn't have decided to violate my body.
We tell ourselves those type of things anyway, we don't need society saying them too (except the "don't drink too much" to both sexes and self-defense classes that can be helpful if someone mugs you).
And a gun does nothing to help someone who doesn't have proper training in its use. If you're arming your wives, I presume you're taking them to the range at least twice a month to get their practice in, and also practicing how to deal with a misfeed or a doublefeed if they're using a semi-auto. My sister uses a revolver because she could never get the knack of clearing a jam quickly enough on my (now hers, and if anyone else wants it it's only had about 500 rounds through it... Kimber Ultra Aegis II, she might sell it for $1000 -- yes, we were inducing jams in the clear drills), it has never jammed once while I was just shooting.
Just to be clear on something.
Are you asserting that any sexual interaction can retroactively be called rape?
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I do wish there *was* more education about rape given to men.
What's to educate? Rape isn't about love or even lust: rape is some dickhead (pardon the entendre) seeking to feel powerful by forcing themself on someone weaker than s/h/it is. There are really only two ways to break that particular chain of thinking: a bullet to the head or a lifetime in a cage that keeps the perp in, and the potential victims out. Both ultimately end the same way though - with the perp feeding the worms, and discussing his inadequacies with his maker in the hereafter. One - the cage - just takes longer to get there because of the moral cowardice of the soociety that uses it for this.
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Just to be clear on something.
Are you asserting that any sexual interaction can retroactively be called rape?
No, but they may feel raped, if they didn't remember what happened, or were too frozen up to say "No". Fight, flight, or freeze -- those are all normal reactions to unwanted *anything*. It's why some people never fight back when they're physically assaulted in another way -- even men, especially if crud happened to them as a kid or they have PTSD for another reason. If it was the frozen up case, a woman will probably break up with the guy and just blame herself, not believing the system will do anything since they didn't say "No" or actively resist.
It's more that I think both men and women should look for "Yes", not the absence of "No". Yes, women can molest and rape men too (an erection is just a physiological response, and suggesting that a guy can't get it up if he's being raped is like saying that if a woman orgasms during a violent rape -- which also happens -- that it wasn't rape.) Enthusiastic consent. It's much more fun than a woman deadfishing it anyway.
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No, but they may feel raped, if they didn't remember what happened, or were too frozen up to say "No". Fight, flight, or freeze -- those are all normal reactions to unwanted *anything*. It's why some people never fight back when they're physically assaulted in another way -- even men, especially if crud happened to them as a kid or they have PTSD for another reason. If it was the frozen up case, a woman will probably break up with the guy and just blame herself, not believing the system will do anything since they didn't say "No" or actively resist.
It's more that I think both men and women should look for "Yes", not the absence of "No". Yes, women can molest and rape men too (an erection is just a physiological response, and suggesting that a guy can't get it up if he's being raped is like saying that if a woman orgasms during a violent rape -- which also happens -- that it wasn't rape.) Enthusiastic consent. It's much more fun than a woman deadfishing it anyway.
I think you run a grave danger there of minimizing an act of violence when you even suggest a simple case of buyers remorse can be equated with rape.
To me it smacks more of seeking victimhood in lieu of taking responsibility for actions in those cases.
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What's to educate? Rape isn't about love or even lust: rape is some dickhead (pardon the entendre) seeking to feel powerful by forcing themself on someone weaker than s/h/it is. There are really only two ways to break that particular chain of thinking: a bullet to the head or a lifetime in a cage that keeps the perp in, and the potential victims out. Both ultimately end the same way though - with the perp feeding the worms, and discussing his inadequacies with his maker in the hereafter. One - the cage - just takes longer to get there because of the moral cowardice of the soociety that uses it for this.
Well, I'll tell my story, and I think the fact he drank contributed to his desire to feel powerful.
I knew a guy for three years. He was recently divorced from his wife and I knew he was attracted to me, but I also don't like being a rebound. So when he invited me over and I could hear the slur in his words on my Friday night (I worked Sunday-Thursday), I said "Okay, but just so you know, no hanky-panky". But I went over, and he had another friend over, which made me feel safer. It was rum that night, and a lot of it. I have the ability to be an alcoholic (I can drink quite a bit more than is enough to get me drunk, which is why I only drink in happy situations instead of using the alcohol to escape), and I never vomit. I could tell I was done when the rum bottle was done, and I said "Goodnight" to them and went to sleep on the couch. Both of them were still in the house, and went back to his bedroom to watch some movie on his computer. I remember falling asleep.
I woke up in his bed, with my jeans halfway down my thighs, and my bra unfastened but still holding my boobs so I know I didn't take any of my clothes off. What woke me up (it felt like coming out of a tunnel) was him penetrating me, and when I went to the bathroom after I could see he'd used lube. I was on my side, and he was behind me. I was lucky he wasn't on top of me, because he outweighed me by 200 lbs. I said "No" as loudly as I could but it may have been a mumble, and when I felt another thrust I LEAPT out of the bed (that was when I realized the state of my clothing) and went and curled up on his couch. All I could think of was that I was too drunk to drive and go home.
He came out a few minutes later, angry, asking why I got up. I said "How did I get in your bed?" He said, emphatically and still rather angrily, "I carried you!" "Did I move?" "When I picked you up, you rested your head on my chest, but other than that, no." "Did I speak?" "You mumbled something before you got out of bed."
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I left when I was sobered up, went to the ER to have a kit done (they found no semen or DNA as he'd used a condom, but did find lube) and reported it when he was continually texting and harassing me and I wasn't answering except the fifth out of about 50 texts to which I said "Just leave me alone."
The investigators agreed it was rape, had me wear a wire to try to get him to admit it, but I was falling apart and word had gotten out that I was talking to the police. So that didn't work. He admitted everything to the detective who finally interviewed him, but said he thought I was consenting because I didn't say "no", though he admitted I didn't say yes or help at all with the removal of my clothes -- that it was like he was moving a rag doll (I saw the transcript of the interview). He didn't even get a stalking charge, the prosecuting attorney declined to prosecute on any of it.
Me? I would have been happy if they'd pled him down and sent him to alcohol treatment. But they didn't even do that.
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I think you run a grave danger there of minimizing an act of violence when you even suggest a simple case of buyers remorse can be equated with rape.
To me it smacks more of seeking victimhood in lieu of taking responsibility for actions in those cases.
So now I have some clarification for you I'd like to understand.
Are you calling a case where a woman, like I was, was passed out and carried to another location, did nothing to assist at all with the sex act, and was able to get free before it was completed, "buyers remorse"?
It was his words that made me sure I was actually passed out and not blacked out, had he said I got into his bed on my own, I would have believed him and not went for a kit or anything. I certainly wouldn't have drank with him again, and I blame myself a lot for drinking that night -- I didn't drink again at all until the following New Years's Eve, and stuck with mimosas. But I wouldn't have called it rape if he'd said I'd been up and moving.
But it is important to teach boys, for their *own* protection, that a girl who is drunk may not remember having sex and may feel it was rape, and may report it as such, causing them a world of hurt. That's more what I meant about educating boys and men about rape. And there are many cases of forcible rape when a man is drunk -- it's more likely that he'll be drunk than she will be, according to some feminist statistics, I'd like to see confirmation of that. Alcohol can make both sexes violent when they wouldn't be otherwise. I think if the guy who raped me hadn't been blotto, he would have thought more about the fact I'd already said not to expect hanky-panky, and that if I didn't wake when he said he shook my shoulder before carrying me, that I was probably just fine there and he had no reason to try to "make me comfortable".
And I do think teaching boys that women shouldn't lay there like a dead fish is good, too -- something's wrong. Either you're doing it wrong, or she's not into it and it's better to stop.
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Ma'am, the alcohol didn't - and doesn't - create a thing. The alcohol just released the inhibitions on what was already there, giving the bastard an outlet to act on his quest for power.
I too, have personal experience with dickheads who use intercourse as a weapon (niece with whom I am almost as close as father/daughter was repeatedly raped by her biological father over the course of a 5-year span). I commend your bravery for being willing to wear the wire even as long as you did, but I would caution you to place responsibility for your assault squarely where it belongs: on the shoulders of the scumbag who raped you. Not on the drink. Not on his lack of 'education' about what rape is. Not on whatever you might have been wearing, or said, or did at the time. Him. Just him. Making excuses for his acts empowers and enables him just as much as that drink flowing through his system ever did.
Stop giving him power over you.
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So now I have some clarification for you I'd like to understand.
Are you calling a case where a woman, like I was, was passed out and carried to another location, did nothing to assist at all with the sex act, and was able to get free before it was completed, "buyers remorse"?
It was his words that made me sure I was actually passed out and not blacked out, had he said I got into his bed on my own, I would have believed him and not went for a kit or anything. I certainly wouldn't have drank with him again, and I blame myself a lot for drinking that night -- I didn't drink again at all until the following New Years's Eve, and stuck with mimosas. But I wouldn't have called it rape if he'd said I'd been up and moving.
But it is important to teach boys, for their *own* protection, that a girl who is drunk may not remember having sex and may feel it was rape, and may report it as such, causing them a world of hurt. That's more what I meant about educating boys and men about rape. And there are many cases of forcible rape when a man is drunk -- it's more likely that he'll be drunk than she will be, according to some feminist statistics, I'd like to see confirmation of that. Alcohol can make both sexes violent when they wouldn't be otherwise. I think if the guy who raped me hadn't been blotto, he would have thought more about the fact I'd already said not to expect hanky-panky, and that if I didn't wake when he said he shook my shoulder before carrying me, that I was probably just fine there and he had no reason to try to "make me comfortable".
And I do think teaching boys that women shouldn't lay there like a dead fish is good, too -- something's wrong. Either you're doing it wrong, or she's not into it and it's better to stop.
We have your version of the story,given that there was no prosecution could mean that there is far more to it then what is relayed here and yes no matter what you assert that circumstance does carry weight.
You also relay that you clearly and knowledgeably made very poor decisions,I know you are possibly baiting us into something so you can run back claiming "those mean,women hating conservatives are blaming me,the victim".
My gut feeling is that the total truth of the situation is hardly a closed case for your assertions and likely why no charges were brought despite the veiled suggestion that the legal system discriminates against women...in fact quite the opposite is the case so will just have to leave it at that,they didn`t believe a crime was committed and from your own description that is not a stretch regardless of how certain you are of it.
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And I do think teaching boys that women shouldn't lay there like a dead fish is good, too -- something's wrong. Either you're doing it wrong, or she's not into it and it's better to stop.
The first thing I would do is teach my daughter not to drink until she passes out in a guy's apartment.
As far as teaching my son how to have sex, I'm pretty sure "nature" can take care of that. If she's not having a good time he should stop? Are you serious? Do you know nothing about the male sex drive? There is a point of no return dearie.
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The first thing I would do is teach my daughter not to drink until she passes out in a guy's apartment.
As I said, that was my bad. Even though I'd known him three years and trusted him. It still didn't give him the right to do what he admitted he did.
As far as teaching my son how to have sex, I'm pretty sure "nature" can take care of that. If she's not having a good time he should stop? Are you serious? Do you know nothing about the male sex drive? There is a point of no return dearie.
So if she says "No" after penetration, is it not rape-rape? He "just can't stop" and that's a good reason to continue when she starts fighting?
I'm suggesting teaching men to be smart, and to be gentlemen. If he needs to get off, he can pull out and do something that I'll not use a more common word for because it's a little offensive to some, and I imagine this is mostly a family-friendly forum.
And that particular release will probably be far more pleasurable than a reluctant girl who will likely dump him after that night.
Edit to add: I'm not counting premature ejaculation because of the shock of the girl saying no -- I stopped seeing an ex (for other reasons) after a night where yes, I'd had a few, and he started to enter. I said "Not without a condom!" but before I'd gotten to "C", he finished from the shock. But he DID try to stop, because he didn't want to not have sex without one either, he didn't realize I'd brought one and it was in my jeans pocket.
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As I said, that was my bad.blah blah blat.
There is a reason I don't tell life stories on the Internet.
They are like bouncy tales, while entertaining and might possibly add some weight to ones argument they are unfalsifiable and rhetorical.
While the story that you spun is unfortunate, it does exactly nothing to move your argument forward, that is assuming that you have an argument that you have not yet made.
Edit: Frankly, I find you boring and not worth the effort to engage.
So post away, your just one more boring mole...enjoy.
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We have your version of the story,given that there was no prosecution could mean that there is far more to it then what is relayed here and yes no matter what you assert that circumstance does carry weight.
You also relay that you clearly and knowledgeably made very poor decisions,I know you are possibly baiting us into something so you can run back claiming "those mean,women hating conservatives are blaming me,the victim".
My gut feeling is that the total truth of the situation is hardly a closed case for your assertions and likely why no charges were brought despite the veiled suggestion that the legal system discriminates against women...in fact quite the opposite is the case so will just have to leave it at that,they didn`t believe a crime was committed and from your own description that is not a stretch regardless of how certain you are of it.
It was an acquaintance I'd known three years. I did not think to immediately call the cops, so I stayed there until I sobered up. Those things likely played into their concerns. It could have looked like buyer's remorse, and perhaps the fact he admitted everything was what made them decline to press any charges. I would have been happy with pleading him down to something non-sexual so he wouldn't be on the registry and gotten him alcohol treatment. I also delayed reporting, even though I got the medical exam (which had no conclusive evidence that ruled out consensual sex). Had I been thinking correctly, I should have called 911 immediately and let them test my BAC and get his statement while he was still drunk. But I wasn't thinking right.
So I have no doubts that there were reasons they did not prosecute. He's since, though, been arrested twice for assault and terroristic threatening. Want his mugshot? (The address isn't current so don't try to go take the law into anyone else's hands, especially based on what someone posts on the Internet!)
http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Arkansas/Benton-County-AR/Troy-Allen-Hogan.47071681.html
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Edit: Frankly, I find you boring and not worth the effort to engage.
So post away, your just one more boring mole...enjoy.
Moles deny their true nature. I was a lurker first, then in my first post, I admitted being a DUer. I'll not reply to your posts in the future if you do not wish to engage. But please, let me know if I ever start becoming a truly bad houseguest. I'll stop rather than cause more trouble, and if this post is you saying that.... then I'll leave you be.
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I don't know...what...do you have a point?
Edit: I will admit it, I want you to post some of your beliefs so that I can burn you down.
I will not chase you around this website in an attempt to force you into a corner so that you are forced say what you mean.
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It was an acquaintance I'd known three years. I did not think to immediately call the cops, so I stayed there until I sobered up. Those things likely played into their concerns. It could have looked like buyer's remorse, and perhaps the fact he admitted everything was what made them decline to press any charges. I would have been happy with pleading him down to something non-sexual so he wouldn't be on the registry and gotten him alcohol treatment. I also delayed reporting, even though I got the medical exam (which had no conclusive evidence that ruled out consensual sex). Had I been thinking correctly, I should have called 911 immediately and let them test my BAC and get his statement while he was still drunk. But I wasn't thinking right.
So I have no doubts that there were reasons they did not prosecute. He's since, though, been arrested twice for assault and terroristic threatening. Want his mugshot? (The address isn't current so don't try to go take the law into anyone else's hands, especially based on what someone posts on the Internet!)
http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Arkansas/Benton-County-AR/Troy-Allen-Hogan.47071681.html
Bear in mind the story you relay is almost the most perfectly ambiguous set of circumstances imaginable in what is a highly emotion charged issue.
No one here is casual regarding a woman being raped or violated.
There are just odd things in what you assert...wearing a wire requires composure but you say you were falling apart,what is that?
He didn`t incriminate himself that way but somehow did openly to a law enforcement officer and nothing came of it?
Now you speak of a delay in reporting etc.
There is reason to be skeptical and that has nothing to do with blaming a victim so if that was what you wanted it is a fail.
If every last word you speak is the Gods honest truth then of course it is a terrible thing but I see the reason charges were declined being filed in our justice system.
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We have your version of the story,given that there was no prosecution could mean that there is far more to it then what is relayed here and yes no matter what you assert that circumstance does carry weight.
You also relay that you clearly and knowledgeably made very poor decisions,I know you are possibly baiting us into something so you can run back claiming "those mean,women hating conservatives are blaming me,the victim".
My gut feeling is that the total truth of the situation is hardly a closed case for your assertions and likely why no charges were brought despite the veiled suggestion that the legal system discriminates against women...in fact quite the opposite is the case so will just have to leave it at that,they didn`t believe a crime was committed and from your own description that is not a stretch regardless of how certain you are of it.
Gee I never heard of rapists that used condoms. Had a case in Florida where a 22 year old woman was placed in a nursing facility. She had been in an auto accident and in a coma.
She was in the home for a few months and began to show signs she was pregnant. WTF her family raised hell on how this had happened. What a place to place her family in. Good Christians that did not believe in abortion but under this case what to do?
They did what they could do writing to the local newspapers and begging the local DA to do something. No one seemed interested until they went on Face Book. Holy Crap they were undulated with story's about the miss care of family members in these homes from hundreds of people.
Upside of the story, the rapest an orderly was caught DNA, the woman's family are raising the child that will never know their mother or dad .This is about as upside to this horror as one can get.
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I don't know...what...do you have a point?
Well, honestly, it irritated me that there was victim-blaming in this own thread, where there had also been death threats against the guy.
If a rapist is worthy of death, yet people will still blame the victim for choosing to go down the "wrong" jogging path... that's a dichotomy that I don't get.
Something went very wrong in this child's upbringing, or maybe he was just wired wrong, and while he might not have listened to the things I would tell a son if I had one any more than he did to "Don't rape and kill your teacher".... boys and girls both need to be educated about the realities of rape.
We do a pretty good job with girls, trying to teach them that they can't drink like the boys, and that it's better to call the campus safe ride program instead of stay the night when you're blotto (I just wasn't a college student). Self-defense classes. Guns, for those who haven't had mental health issues to the point they shouldn't own one (and if I was going to drink I wouldn't have carried the one I owned anyway).
But I knew this man's mother. I could not look her in the eye after it happened, because I knew she knew me well enough that she would realize I couldn't be lying... and have to face that somehow, her son was a rapist, and blame herself. And she was a single mom, etc, etc. I knew she had a good heart.
But I do think that by letting society keep teaching that boys can't control their sex drive (and usually they start deadfishing long before getting to sex if they're not into it, I'm referring to that as reluctance not rape -- and that convincing a woman to have sex after she's said no many times is probably not going to be very fun sex either, and while maybe not rape, is certainly coercion that is dirty pool at the very least), that it's only his pleasure that should matter, that only the absence of "no" matters, and the suggestion that a man cannot pull out when withdrawal has been a method of contraception used by many couples who are okay with the possibility of becoming preggers but just aren't trying), are all creating a very dangerous situation for boys and girls alike.
For the girls, there's the obvious reasons. For the guys, though... there are some really screwed up women out there. There ARE women who will report out of revenge or regret. There are girls who will not accept the responsibility for the fact they drank and blacked out. If I'd been blacked out and people told me I was all over the guy (the other friend left before anything happened and all he said was that I was still asleep on the couch when he left), I'd have been kicking my own ass for a really stupid decision, but not crying rape. Some women aren't like that. Their friends might not like your sons and lie to the girl and tell her she was passed out, even.
If, as a man, you don't screw drunk chicks and you think of her pleasure as well as your own, you'll be a smart man, and a gentle man. And not get falsely accused of rape.
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Edit was for grammar fail.
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Gee I never heard of rapists that used condoms. Had a case in Florida where a 22 year old woman was placed in a nursing facility. She had been in an auto accident and in a coma.
She was in the home for a few months and began to show signs she was pregnant. WTF her family raised hell on how this had happened. What a place to place her family in. Good Christians that did not believe in abortion but under this case what to do?
They did what they could do writing to the local newspapers and begging the local DA to do something. No one seemed interested until they went on Face Book. Holy Crap they were undulated with story's about the miss care of family members in these homes from hundreds of people.
Upside of the story, the rapest an orderly was caught DNA, the woman's family are raising the child that will never know their mother or dad .This is about as upside to this horror as one can get.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19477791
"Never having used a condom during penetrative sexually aggressive acts was reported by 41.2% of perpetrators." So about half who admit they are rapists have used condoms at least once.
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Bear in mind the story you relay is almost the most perfectly ambiguous set of circumstances imaginable in what is a highly emotion charged issue.
No one here is casual regarding a woman being raped or violated.
There are just odd things in what you assert...wearing a wire requires composure but you say you were falling apart,what is that?
He didn`t incriminate himself that way but somehow did openly to a law enforcement officer and nothing came of it?
Now you speak of a delay in reporting etc.
There is reason to be skeptical and that has nothing to do with blaming a victim so if that was what you wanted it is a fail.
If every last word you speak is the Gods honest truth then of course it is a terrible thing but I see the reason charges were declined being filed in our justice system.
As I said, I know there were reasons why it wasn't prosecuted. Nope, I'm not upset about being skeptical! If I had done more of the right things, it would have been more easily prosecuted. The case this thread was about is one of the rarest types of rapes. But I can say that I'll never report again if it does happen to me. I supported a friend through prosecuting her stepdad (the wire worked in his case, he shot himself just before trial). Part of me is glad that I didn't have to go through a trial, which is why I said I'd be happy with a plea-bargain.
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As I said, I know there were reasons why it wasn't prosecuted. Nope, I'm not upset about being skeptical! If I had done more of the right things, it would have been more easily prosecuted. The case this thread was about is one of the rarest types of rapes. But I can say that I'll never report again if it does happen to me. I supported a friend through prosecuting her stepdad (the wire worked in his case, he shot himself just before trial). Part of me is glad that I didn't have to go through a trial, which is why I said I'd be happy with a plea-bargain.
Now that just doesn`t make sense to me.
You may have been victimized by a person but I do not see where you were victimized by our judicial system if that is what you are insinuating.
The accused also has rights and is innocent until proven guilty...if you did not (as you admit) do things that would have brought conviction based on evidence then that is the lesson to learn,not to refuse to report a crime.
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So if she says "No" after penetration, is it not rape-rape? He "just can't stop" and that's a good reason to continue when she starts fighting?
I don't get this thinking at all. If a woman allows the sex to get that far, as far as I'm concerned, she already gave her permission and the rape argument flies out the window.
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I don't get this thinking at all. If a woman allows the sex to get that far, as far as I'm concerned, she already gave her permission and the rape argument flies out the window.
Panic attack, from reliving childhood abuse? (I'm very lucky that my boyfriend of over a year is understanding of my occasional freakouts). Realizing that he didn't put a condom on and asking him to stop to put it on (of course, I never said that was rape, even if he finished inside me I'd been okay with the sex, just not without a condom.... and since it was all of about 2 seconds, I actually felt sorry for him since he started freaking out and apologizing...) and they refusing to stop but continued, and she fights and struggles because she doesn't want to get AIDS or get pregnant? Sex started out normal, but he started trying to choke her, call her his b****, etc, or otherwise just got dirty, rude, and nasty and doing things she *hadn't* consented to?
I actually had to ask my first partner to stop the night I was trying to give him my virginity, because I wasn't into it at all -- I was afraid we'd get caught, we were at my house and my grandmother was home. We finished him off another way, and I still got caught out because Granny found the condom in the trash.
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I've read through this thread and I went to the mugshot link. Just a few things . . .
Both of my parents were physicians, one of them a psychiatrist and this is a most disturbing thread. Moriah, I think you are unwittingly re-creating the abuse, and you really should seek help. Nobody teaches their son that it's okay to take the advantage of a woman passed out, there is no "culture of rape" like this. You didn't "deserve it" but you did put yourself into that situation and you probably will again if you don't resolve your problems.
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I've read through this thread and I went to the mugshot link. Just a few things . . .
Both of my parents were physicians, one of them a psychiatrist and this is a most disturbing thread. Moriah, I think you are unwittingly re-creating the abuse, and you really should seek help. Nobody teaches their son that it's okay to take the advantage of a woman passed out, there is no "culture of rape" like this. You didn't "deserve it" but you did put yourself into that situation and you probably will again if you don't resolve your problems.
You are undoubtedly correct, as I just out of inpatient less than two weeks ago for severe suicidal ideation. I'm 5 days away from having none of the med that they prescribed to up the Celexa, called Abilify -- they gave me 15 days of samples. I am calling friends who may have been prescribed it in the past to see if they kept it, even if it's expired. I've applied for the Prescription Assistance Program. But it wasn't until I went inpatient that they had an opening for even an intake for me with the local clinic that gets the community mental health block grants.
In January, I will have a wider range of physicians I can see, but the money I had for the doctor that had an opening may have to be spent on this medication -- not enough for a full month but hopefully the PAP will be approved before that. I may still not see a psychiatrist for medication maintenance until January even if we didn't have the ACA Medicaid expansion in my state (Arkansas, as you saw, though I moved back to my hometown), given the wait times and the way they claim you have an appointment but when you call the day before you learn they never actually entered it in the system (I'm calling again tomorrow for Tuesday just to make sure).
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This thread has more bouncies than rsmithnumbers.
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This thread has more bouncies than rsmithnumbers.
More of a reverse-bouncy, isn't it? I mean, I thought the origin of the term "bouncy" had to do with unfalsifiable (which is true of what I've said) allegedly good and inspiring things like cops jumping out of the bushes to say they are burning their voter registration card because it says Republican.
Anyway, Tess was right, and I'm done with this thread except to say, again: Teach your boys to be gentleman and not screw drunk chicks for their own safety, teach your girls to be ladies who respect themselves enough not to get sloshed or just "give in" and allow something they really don't want, send both to self-defense type lessons, and make sure that if you arm your wife, that you also make sure she's comfortable with the gun she chooses and can practice with it frequently. There's nothing wrong with a revolver, and their odd shape conceals very well.
Also send them to http://www.corneredcat.com/contents if they've never owned a gun or been interested in guns before and you hadn't already done so. GREAT site!
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Lora lie,
I am not going to read all of your personal shit, true or not. I scanned it on the way down the page, and it is exactly what I expect from a DUmmy.
No, but they may feel raped
The world doesn't care how you "feel". It's time to outgrow the 5 year old's mindset that "feelings" are more important than facts.
Here's two simple rules to live by:
1. Actions have consequences. Don't do stupid shit.
2. If you do something stupid, learn from your mistake and don't do it again.
I think I just saved you a bunch of psychiatry copays. Feel free to send me a ham or something.
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The world doesn't care how you "feel". It's time to outgrow the 5 year old's mindset that "feelings" are more important than facts.
If your daughter called you from college crying because she drank something (either too much, or spiked), didn't remember anything, and woke up with her clothing torn or other evidence she'd been penetrated while not remembering it ... would YOU feel that she was raped? Would you tell her the below, or to get counseling? Would you want to kill the SOB who took advantage of her state (blacked out or passed out)? If you would just tell her not to go to those parties and not drink anything at all while there? Would you encourage her to report it to the campus police if for no other reason than to make sure they knew what happened if someone else came to them with the same story about the guy?
I imagine all of the above, if you were a parent and it was your child. The good but tough advice below, but also recognize she might need some counseling to get past what happened and to address any alcohol abuse problem that might exist.
Here's two simple rules to live by:
1. Actions have consequences. Don't do stupid shit.
2. If you do something stupid, learn from your mistake and don't do it again.
I think I just saved you a bunch of psychiatry copays. Feel free to send me a ham or something.
You like ham, or do you like other treats? I can bake a mean batch of cookies, and they'd keep okay in the mail.
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This thread has more bouncies than rsmithnumbers.
Agreed.
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Thank god, I never had any desire to screw drunk women....they just ain't sexy...Tipsy maybe but drunk or passed out, never. It was bad enough screwing one that was cold sober and not moving a muscle.
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If your daughter called you from college crying because she drank something (either too much, or spiked), didn't remember anything, and woke up with her clothing torn or other evidence she'd been penetrated while not remembering it ... would YOU feel that she was raped? Would you tell her the below, or to get counseling? Would you want to kill the SOB who took advantage of her state (blacked out or passed out)? If you would just tell her not to go to those parties and not drink anything at all while there? Would you encourage her to report it to the campus police if for no other reason than to make sure they knew what happened if someone else came to them with the same story about the guy?
I imagine all of the above, if you were a parent and it was your child. The good but tough advice below, but also recognize she might need some counseling to get past what happened and to address any alcohol abuse problem that might exist.
You like ham, or do you like other treats? I can bake a mean batch of cookies, and they'd keep okay in the mail.
Lorelai,
Interesting story you gave. Have you forgotten the saying " Candy is dandy but liqueur is quicker "?
I cannot fault you and your perceived, ideas on what took place before and after a black out . Actually you have a darn good memory to recall anything about the attack.
Are you sure it even happened at all and putting past experiences into the mess, anyone would have after drinking a full bottle of Rum----- .No telling what was going on in your fried brain when you awoke back on the couch with a head banger from hell.
Now I would advise you of only one thing, do not post criminal records of anyone not charged and found guilty on the internet. If this had gone to court and the male was found guilty of assaulting you, then they are fair game. Also the old bugaboo of being attacked twice comes in here, first the crime and then the court system and defense that would have torn you story to shreds.
I know the victims past conduct cannot be brought up at trial but a young lawyer practicing defense can insinuate it was all your fault. One cannot lay down on the rail road tracks then sue the train company for running over them.
We all assume risks in life as adults, be it a slip in the tub and knocking ones head and drowning to going to bed forgetting to lock the front door.
As I see it you went knowingly to a mans home after hearing him slur his words on the phone. There was a second male there and the 3 of you drank a whole bottle of Rum. You do remember passing out on the couch and waking up on the couch. Somehow in your story you awoke in his bed and remembered the state of your bra. No more mention of the other man in the apartment. Rape kit at the hospital a day or so later found no signs of sex except as you say some kind of lubricant.
Now how many men who are drunk to the gills will even think of a condom or lubricant, darn these rapists are becoming real fancy about raping an unconscious woman.
NOW for your enjoyment KAMA-------Man found guilty for raping a woman was given the good news first by the court------3-5 years for the rape, bad news the woman has AIDS. Records showed the male fainted dead away.
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Thank god, I never had any desire to screw drunk women....they just ain't sexy...Tipsy maybe but drunk or passed out, never. It was bad enough screwing one that was cold sober and not moving a muscle.
Bingo. That's the point to get across, really, I think. It isn't fun, and could land a kid in hot water, deserved or not as the case may be. I think blackouts are the worst situation a guy has to worry about when it comes to girls who are drinking -- the girl *may* be into it and not remember a thing. If she's legal age, use the universal cell phones to record some of her behavior that night, at least, for CYA!
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Bingo. That's the point to get across, really, I think. It isn't fun, and could land a kid in hot water, deserved or not as the case may be. I think blackouts are the worst situation a guy has to worry about when it comes to girls who are drinking -- the girl *may* be into it and not remember a thing. If she's legal age, use the universal cell phones to record some of her behavior that night, at least, for CYA!
Do you understand the point made though how this leftist push to redefine rape as almost anytime two people have sex trivializes the trauma of an actual brutal attack?
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Lorelai,
Interesting story you gave. Have you forgotten the saying " Candy is dandy but liqueur is quicker "?
I cannot fault you and your perceived, ideas on what took place before and after a black out . Actually you have a darn good memory to recall anything about the attack.
Are you sure it even happened at all and putting past experiences into the mess, anyone would have after drinking a full bottle of Rum----- .No telling what was going on in your fried brain when you awoke back on the couch with a head banger from hell.
Now I would advise you of only one thing, do not post criminal records of anyone not charged and found guilty on the internet. If this had gone to court and the male was found guilty of assaulting you, then they are fair game. Also the old bugaboo of being attacked twice comes in here, first the crime and then the court system and defense that would have torn you story to shreds.
I know the victims past conduct cannot be brought up at trial but a young lawyer practicing defense can insinuate it was all your fault. One cannot lay down on the rail road tracks then sue the train company for running over them.
We all assume risks in life as adults, be it a slip in the tub and knocking ones head and drowning to going to bed forgetting to lock the front door.
As I see it you went knowingly to a mans home after hearing him slur his words on the phone. There was a second male there and the 3 of you drank a whole bottle of Rum. You do remember passing out on the couch and waking up on the couch. Somehow in your story you awoke in his bed and remembered the state of your bra. No more mention of the other man in the apartment. Rape kit at the hospital a day or so later found no signs of sex except as you say some kind of lubricant.
Now how many men who are drunk to the gills will even think of a condom or lubricant, darn these rapists are becoming real fancy about raping an unconscious woman.
NOW for your enjoyment KAMA-------Man found guilty for raping a woman was given the good news first by the court------3-5 years for the rape, bad news the woman has AIDS. Records showed the male fainted dead away.
Vesta.....I'm impressed :-)
H5
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When my boys started dating, I did warn them that there are some women out there that could cry rape and ruin their lives.
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Are you sure it even happened at all and putting past experiences into the mess, anyone would have after drinking a full bottle of Rum----- .No telling what was going on in your fried brain when you awoke back on the couch with a head banger from hell.
Now I would advise you of only one thing, do not post criminal records of anyone not charged and found guilty on the internet. If this had gone to court and the male was found guilty of assaulting you, then they are fair game. Also the old bugaboo of being attacked twice comes in here, first the crime and then the court system and defense that would have torn you story to shreds.
We all assume risks in life as adults, be it a slip in the tub and knocking ones head and drowning to going to bed forgetting to lock the front door.
As I see it you went knowingly to a mans home after hearing him slur his words on the phone. There was a second male there and the 3 of you drank a whole bottle of Rum. You do remember passing out on the couch and waking up on the couch. Somehow in your story you awoke in his bed and remembered the state of your bra. No more mention of the other man in the apartment. Rape kit at the hospital a day or so later found no signs of sex except as you say some kind of lubricant.
Now how many men who are drunk to the gills will even think of a condom or lubricant, darn these rapists are becoming real fancy about raping an unconscious woman.
NOW for your enjoyment KAMA-------Man found guilty for raping a woman was given the good news first by the court------3-5 years for the rape, bad news the woman has AIDS. Records showed the male fainted dead away.
Slightly incorrect, sorry if I wasn't clear. No, I woke up in his bed, to penetration, it felt like coming out of a tunnel, when I said "No" and he didn't stop, that's when the adrenaline finally kicked in enough for me to engage in the "flight" response... just not far enough. I've wished I'd ran to neighbors apartments and knocked on doors instead of just running back to the couch and curling up in a ball. That's the first memory I have after falling asleep on the couch, waking up to penetration -- and I spent more time than I probably should have in the weeks after trying to remember anything else before that. His friend was no longer there. His friend said when he left, I was still asleep on the couch, and the reason the guy who I had known for three years and trusted had to follow him to the front door is his building was one of those complexes where you can only lock it from the inside.
That's why my first question, when he came out, was "How did I get in your bed?". If he'd said I'd walked there, I'd have believed him and thought it was a blackout. When he said he'd tried to shake my shoulder because he thought I'd be more comfortable on the bed, and then carried me, it really freaked me out that I couldn't remember any of that and was surprised the alcohol had made me actually pass out or sleep THAT deeply -- I took my last shot and said "Goodnight" then went to sleep. I imagine it was the one shot too many that had I been awake when it hit, I would have hit blackout level. And I wasn't hung-over. That's why I know I have the potential to be a real alcoholic if I ever drank routinely.
My drinking behavior has been much more responsible since that day in April of 2012 (and mugshots of people arrested for other crimes are routinely posted on the Internet, it was how I found out he had gotten in trouble with the law again). That NYE, I stuck with mimosas and since they require champagne, there wasn't a lot there -- I think I had four, or equivalent of 2 glasses of champagne. Since then, I've drank a beer with the boyfriend I have had for the last year, since he buys good bear and not swill, but that's it. I've never kept it in my home or drank when I was unhappy to try to escape, because of my own alcoholic father. If I ever binge-drink again, I'll decide that AA's philosophy -- not another drink, ever -- is going to be my motto.
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And enough of what people are referring to as a "bouncy". Only making this reply because you had misunderstood something fairly vital.
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When my boys started dating, I did warn them that there are some women out there that could cry rape and ruin their lives.
I have an acquaintance (friend of friend's brother) who ended up in jail for several years shortly after turning 21. He was at a bar celebrating being able to legally drink, took a girl home who had a fake ID good enough to get into a bar. Ends up she was 16 or 17, her father found out and pressed charges, and he was convicted of statutory rape.
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I have an acquaintance (friend of friend's brother) who ended up in jail for several years shortly after turning 21. He was at a bar celebrating being able to legally drink, took a girl home who had a fake ID good enough to get into a bar. Ends up she was 16 or 17, her father found out and pressed charges, and he was convicted of statutory rape.
Exactly my point. Teaching girls about how to protect themselves from rape is important, but it's just as important to teach boys about avoiding the dangers of being wrongly accused too.
This is why sex shouldn't be treated as a casual fun activity without first being in a loving and committed relationship.
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Do you understand the point made though how this leftist push to redefine rape as almost anytime two people have sex trivializes the trauma of an actual brutal attack?
You know something odd? Women who are attacked by strangers generally recover emotionally faster. They generally have more support from friends and family, so don't blame themselves as much for trusting the wrong person, as is the case in acquaintance rape.
I am curious, though, what your definition of an "actual brutal attack" is. Of the FBI-classified types of rapists (http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/crimpsych/CPSG-5.htm), power-reassurance rapists often try to make their victims as comfortable as possible and apologize for what they did. They are the most likely to be frightened off if the woman resists, and crying can often make them stop. Yet, they may still have (or pretend to have) a weapon and threaten to use it in a "Please, I don't want to have to use this..." type way. They may even try to make the woman's body enjoy the attack.
Is that still an actual brutal attack, or does it have to be a power-assertive or an anger rapist? I imagine your answer is that yes, it's an actual brutal attack, given that these are generally also stalkers who pre-select their victims, but *she* may or may not know them.
What about this? (As I said, I'm not talking about myself in any of these examples anymore, these are just hypotheticals). Guy fools around with girl. Girl says she doesn't want to go any further (before penetration). The guy maybe had a drink that night, and was a little angry -- he'd just taken her out to dinner for the sixth time, for goodness's sake! A prostitute would be cheaper! He starts to guilt-trip her, cajole, beg, plead, complain about pain....
There's one of two outcomes on the girl's end -- hold to her "No", or to reluctantly give in out of guilt.
And the guy can respond one of two ways to her "No" -- he can either deal with BBs, or he could force her.
If he forces her, I hope you consider that an actual brutal attack, even if he may not use a weapon other than the fact of his own physical strength and the fact they may already be naked.
But is verbal coercion *right*? Not rape, but is it *right* to do, whether she gives in or not? Wouldn't it be better to teach both genders that it's much more fun when both parties want it, otherwise you are pretty much (sorry to be gross) masturbating with another human being instead of your hand?
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You know something odd? Women who are attacked by strangers generally recover emotionally faster. They generally have more support from friends and family, so don't blame themselves as much for trusting the wrong person, as is the case in acquaintance rape.
I am curious, though, what your definition of an "actual brutal attack" is. Of the FBI-classified types of rapists (http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/crimpsych/CPSG-5.htm), power-reassurance rapists often try to make their victims as comfortable as possible and apologize for what they did. They are the most likely to be frightened off if the woman resists, and crying can often make them stop. Yet, they may still have (or pretend to have) a weapon and threaten to use it in a "Please, I don't want to have to use this..." type way. They may even try to make the woman's body enjoy the attack.
Is that still an actual brutal attack, or does it have to be a power-assertive or an anger rapist? I imagine your answer is that yes, it's an actual brutal attack, given that these are generally also stalkers who pre-select their victims, but *she* may or may not know them.
What about this? (As I said, I'm not talking about myself in any of these examples anymore, these are just hypotheticals). Guy fools around with girl. Girl says she doesn't want to go any further (before penetration). The guy maybe had a drink that night, and was a little angry -- he'd just taken her out to dinner for the sixth time, for goodness's sake! A prostitute would be cheaper! He starts to guilt-trip her, cajole, beg, plead, complain about pain....
There's one of two outcomes on the girl's end -- hold to her "No", or to reluctantly give in out of guilt.
And the guy can respond one of two ways to her "No" -- he can either deal with BBs, or he could force her.
If he forces her, I hope you consider that an actual brutal attack, even if he may not use a weapon other than the fact of his own physical strength and the fact they may already be naked.
But is verbal coercion *right*? Not rape, but is it *right* to do, whether she gives in or not? Wouldn't it be better to teach both genders that it's much more fun when both parties want it, otherwise you are pretty much (sorry to be gross) masturbating with another human being instead of your hand?
You are deliberately avoiding reality with all kinds of "what if" strawmen.
Quite frankly I think it is a shame to equate what you assert happened (again,an almost perfectly vague situation where the only essence of rape is an after the fact accusation with even then conflicting elements) and someone who was violently attacked and/or forced against her will.
No matter what you believe there is no real evidence that such a thing happened in your story,I am sorry but am guessing the selective moments of memory you have are a contributing factor into why no charges were filed.
Maybe,just maybe a person would be better off saying to themselves in your case..."Boy,did I ever eff up and won`t do that again" but to assign to it some variety of trauma is to me typical leftist deflection of fault.
I am not blaming a victim I simply don`t believe any element of your tale,true or not makes you one.
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I have an acquaintance (friend of friend's brother) who ended up in jail for several years shortly after turning 21. He was at a bar celebrating being able to legally drink, took a girl home who had a fake ID good enough to get into a bar. Ends up she was 16 or 17, her father found out and pressed charges, and he was convicted of statutory rape.
I have a friend who was accused of raping someone when he wasn't even there -- he was doing something like KJing at another location with so many witnesses she was prosecuted for her obvious lie. He is one who never, even if he's had sex with a girl before, have sex if she has even one drink..... because she accused him of getting her drunk at his house.
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You are deliberately avoiding reality with all kinds of "what if" strawmen.
Quite frankly I think it is a shame to equate what you assert happened (again,an almost perfectly vague situation where the only essence of rape is an after the fact accusation with even then conflicting elements) and someone who was violently attacked and/or forced against her will.
No matter what you believe there is no real evidence that such a thing happened in your story,I am sorry but am guessing the selective moments of memory you have are a contributing factor into why no charges were filed.
Maybe,just maybe a person would be better off saying to themselves in your case..."Boy,did I ever eff up and won`t do that again" but to assign to it some variety of trauma is to me typical leftist deflection of fault.
I am not blaming a victim I simply don`t believe any element of your tale,true or not makes you one.
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I'm done with this thread except to say, again: Teach your boys to be gentleman and not screw drunk chicks for their own safety, teach your girls to be ladies who respect themselves enough not to get sloshed or just "give in" and allow something they really don't want, send both to self-defense type lessons, and make sure that if you arm your wife, that you also make sure she's comfortable with the gun she chooses and can practice with it frequently. There's nothing wrong with a revolver, and their odd shape conceals very well.
I think most of us are probably kinda way ahead of you on this one.
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You know what is really sad about this is that even with what is likely a conjured up story to push the leftist agenda that all men are at heart rapists and should be hated is that she is actually instilling the notion that a woman should not report an attack since it will be ignored.
No matter whether the actual testimony or evidence supports the allegation,which in this case if at all real it did not,it encourages women to be silent when they are attacked.
Then again,when has any individual mattered when a leftist agenda needs to be advanced.
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Lorelei,
You're not at DU. It's time for you to sit at the grown-up table.
If your daughter called you from college crying because she drank something (either too much, or spiked), didn't remember anything, and woke up with her clothing torn or other evidence she'd been penetrated while not remembering it ... would YOU feel that she was raped?
Feel? Hell, no. If she was drunk or drugged and had intercourse without consent, then I would think she was raped. I would also know that she was raped, under the laws of this state. There is a big difference between thinking, knowing, and feeling. The difference between us and the Proglodytes is that we understand the difference.
My daughter would also know that she was not blameless, because she had placed herself in the situation. I raised a son to be clear-eyed, clear-minded, to shoot straight and tell the truth. I also raised him to enjoy good bourbon and good cigars. I would have raised a daughter the same way.
Would you want to kill the SOB who took advantage of her state (blacked out or passed out)?
I'll tell you a little story. This is not a "no shit, there I was" story, nor is it a bouncy.
When my son was in the 3rd grade, the Catholic school he attended had a temporary priest, while the regular parish priest went on a sabbatical to Rome. After the temp priest returned to the diocese, he was accused of sexual molestation of boys at another school (not my son's school). I asked my son if he had ever talked to that priest when he was at the school; my son said that he hadn't. I had no doubt that he had never had a problem with that priest.
The principal called in the parents of each student to talk about the allegations, and to be sure that no one at my son's school was approached or assaulted by the priest. I sat across a table from the principal, the parish priest (back from Rome), and the 3rd grade teacher. The principal said to me "If <priest's name> had any contact with <son's name>, we fully support reporting it to the police." I looked her in the eye and said, "If your priest had laid a hand on my son, there would be no police, there would be no court. There would only be me."
Given what they knew about me (things which are known to some members here at CC), they knew it was not an idle statement. They were all very happy when we moved the next summer, and my son didn't go back to the school.
You like ham, or do you like other treats? I can bake a mean batch of cookies, and they'd keep okay in the mail.
Bacon, brownies, cookies, and blackberry pie. All things I like more than ham- and I like ham a lot.
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Bacon, brownies, cookies, and blackberry pie. All things I like more than ham- and I like ham a lot.
Mr & Mrs Big Dog for president and the future Ham-A-Lot.
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Mr & Mrs Big Dog for president and the future Ham-A-Lot.
I do enjoy the company of a pretty redhead, but it's been almost 5 years since there was a Mrs. Big Dog.
Five glorious years.
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I do enjoy the company of a pretty redhead, but it's been almost 5 years since there was a Mrs. Big Dog.
Five glorious years.
I took 10 years off from marriage and then got the red head.....it comes from a bottle now but WTH...it's still red.
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Mr & Mrs Big Dog for president and the future Ham-A-Lot.
Coming back for...
Ham-A-Lot!
(http://tulsapetsmagazine.com/directory/wp-content/themes/directorypress/thumbs//Screen-shot-2011-09-20-at-1.43.38-PM.png)
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Coming back for...
Ham-A-Lot!
(http://tulsapetsmagazine.com/directory/wp-content/themes/directorypress/thumbs//Screen-shot-2011-09-20-at-1.43.38-PM.png)
It seems a campaign theme song is in order.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfGpVcdqeS0[/youtube]
It's not just a model.
Eat ham and spam and jamalot !
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It seems a campaign theme song is in order.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfGpVcdqeS0[/youtube]
It's not just a model.
Eat ham and spam and jamalot !
WHOOT PYTHON!!!
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There's a reason I have a conceal carry permit. For heaven's sake, the best and most practical way for women to empower themselves is something they want to ban.
Cindie
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Bacon, brownies, cookies, and blackberry pie. All things I like more than ham- and I like ham a lot.
I much prefer ham to spam. ;)
I notice my post had been deleted that you responded to, but I want to say I'm very sorry about what happened about your son. Yes, my stepfather's reaction when I told them what was going on (I'm in my 30s and already buried my father by myself) was "Just give me his address". I wouldn't, because all that would mean was he would go to jail. The last thing my Mom needed.
Also, just want to repost the corneredcat.com link for those who missed it in the original message. If you are planning on arming a wife or girlfriend new to firearms, it's a GREAT site to refer them to, and you just might learn something too.... she's good.
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I notice my post had been deleted that you responded to...
No, it's still there (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,92664.msg1160557.html#msg1160557). Unless you've done something way out of line, posts don't get deleted by anyone other than the poster.
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WHOOT PYTHON!!!
BTW, Python's getting back together . . . They were just going to do one show (in London), but it sold out in 47.5 seconds. So they added four more, according to Bret Baier on FNC last night.
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No, it's still there (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,92664.msg1160557.html#msg1160557). Unless you've done something way out of line, posts don't get deleted by anyone other than the poster.
I see what happened . I typed out a whole lot, probably intended to hit send, and spaced, and it was actually to another poster. I felt after that I'd crossed a line about asking if if it was your kid. That was personalizing an issue and while I think it's one thing to share your own story voluntarily, it's another to involve another person's family... it's kind of dirty pool in debating.
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I much prefer ham to spam. ;)
I notice my post had been deleted that you responded to, but I want to say I'm very sorry about what happened about your son. Yes, my stepfather's reaction when I told them what was going on (I'm in my 30s and already buried my father by myself) was "Just give me his address". I wouldn't, because all that would mean was he would go to jail. The last thing my Mom needed.
Are you talking to me?
Nothing happened to my son. Go back and read it again.
Also, just want to repost the corneredcat.com link for those who missed it in the original message. If you are planning on arming a wife or girlfriend new to firearms, it's a GREAT site to refer them to, and you just might learn something too.... she's good.
Loralei,
Go back and read all of the posts above your first post. You'll see why I am giving you three eye rolls.
:whatever: :whatever: :whatever:
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I see what happened . I typed out a whole lot, probably intended to hit send, and spaced, and it was actually to another poster. I felt after that I'd crossed a line about asking if if it was your kid. That was personalizing an issue and while I think it's one thing to share your own story voluntarily, it's another to involve another person's family... it's kind of dirty pool in debating.
Ummmm.... Not my child, not my story.
Also, you'll probably find a level of honesty here that you may not be used to. If posters here think you have crossed a line, you'll know it.