The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on October 13, 2013, 06:17:52 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023841426
Oh my.
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:03 PM
I am handicapped -- this morning Spires Restaurant in Torrance , CA, discriminated against me.
I am hearing impaired. I wear hearing aids and have a service dog. I have some hearing due to the aids, but my service dog is an alert dog and is very necessary for me to get around and get around safely.
Today, a friend and I went to breakfast at Spires and were told the following:
They have a segregated area for anyone with a service dog because other patrons are offended by having a dog in the restaurant. -- per Assistant Manager at Spires, Torrance, CA
My gawd, these people live in the dark ages...they have a space reserved for people who have disabilities which offend other patrons.
Please kick and get the word out for those who live in SoCal and in the Torrance, CA, area -- this is no place to go unless you are perfect and do not offend others.
What a ****ing whiner.
Before I get started--and I'm pretty pissed at this whining--for those in the audience here who aren't aware, franksolich is deaf. I was born without ears; just a couple of little tabs or flaps where hearing people have ear-lobes. "Microtia," caused by what's medically-termed an "environmental accident," in this case exposure to the chemical Accutane while still in the womb. The grotesque deformity is covered up by a good head of thick, healthy hair.
Okay.
It's a very big campfire, taking a long time to scroll down.
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:08 PM
4. My friends and I went to Dennys and the manager there was a real doll.
She even asked if my dog needed anything and joked with us. After we ate, I told her what had happened to us at Spires and her mouth dropped open and she said, "That is against the law." Told us that the dog and I are welcome at that Dennys anytime.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:06 PM
2. Thank you for the rec...
...the Assistant manager did this to me in front of at least 10 people and had made us wait for a table until she had time to explain that they had a "new policy" at Spires regarding service dogs. Then she told us we basically were not welcome there unless I agree to be segregated from other patrons.
Unbelievable!!!!!
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:08 PM
5. No shit...
...they act like being disabled was something filthy and catching. It was awful.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:13 PM
14. I guess so...
....but their policy is that anyone with a service dog is segregated from other patrons. Those with walkers, crutches, etc., are OK...my guess.
I can tell you this: My service dog is better behaved than 90% of the children I see in restaurants. She sits and then lays down and does not move or get up unless I give a command for her to do so.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:17 PM
21. I could not go without the service dog...
...so IMO it is a discrimination of something I must have in order to be a part of society...and I am not referring to being segregated from others in order to have the rights to something others without disabilities can have.
Whine, whine, whine.....
"I'm handicapped. I'm 'special'."
Geezuz fudging Christ.
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:29 PM
44. Have you ever seen someone being afraid of a person who looks different?
I have seen that with stroke victims, etc.
Soooooooo....where does the segregation end???
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:16 PM
16. Under both Cal State and Fed law...
...a clear violation.
What the law says is that others who complain are given the option of moving...but the disabled patron cannot be moved or segregated due to his/her disability.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:21 PM
30. I have allergies -- severe ones -- to certain foods and perfumes.
I just ask that a restaurant not put certain things on my food.
If I was allergic to someone's perfume, I quietly explain to my waiter or waitress and have never had a problem being move.
No...ramps are accommodations and required by law...so are service dogs and access to all public areas -- a requirement in both Cal and Fed law. Only place a service dog may NOT go is where there is actual food preparation. Also the law states what a restaurant or public place must do if another patron complains about the service dog -- tell them that by law the dog must be given access. PERIOD. If the complainer can be moved, that is the ONLY solution which is allowed.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:22 PM
102. If someone has an allergy...then of course reasonable accommodations should be made.
But...segregating certain persons "just in case" is not a reasonable accommodation. JMHO
I have absolutely NO problem in moving with my service dog to accommodate a person with an allergy who is in discomfort or may become discomforted...but to be told that I am offensive to other patrons because of my dog? That is not acceptable on any level. The reason for the unacceptability was clearly spelled out: Dogs are filthy and do not belong in restaurants. That conversation took place with the idiot head manager the first time my dog and I went to that Spires...apparently the idiot has not learned what the ADA rules are and that they are strictly enforced.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:28 PM
110. I have and when this problem arose in the past with the same Spires, I went to the home office and..
...gave them all the rules. Federal and state and the state laws included the penal code on interference with a service dog and denying service, etc. It is considered a crime in California to do so.
It appears that the manager feels that having a "service dog ghetto" is allowed. And it's OK to discriminate against the handicapped in favor of other patrons.
This time, I can guarantee, I will not be so nice about it and treat it as a learning experience for those who feel free to discriminate. Those days are OVER!
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:17 PM
93. I have the same response to cats...and cat owners.
Cat dander -- and I have severe asthma. My neighbor has cat allergies worst than mine. Either of us come near someone who owns a cat and we both become very, very ill
So.......should cat owners be segregated? Just asking...
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:23 PM
32. How about a wheelchair only section of the restaurant...???
Where does the segregation end???
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:36 PM
52. No..........any SEGREGATION of anyone disabled is against the law. PERIOD.
Asking to move is NOT a segregation. Having a "policy" which segregates the disabled IS discrimination.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:08 PM
80. You really don't get it, do you?
I cannot avoid my hearing loss...so don't try and tell me it's OK to segregate me to the "back of the restaurant" because someone has better rights than I do.
THAT IS DISCRIMINATION AND IT IS NOT ONLY WRONG, BUT AGAINST THE LAW. SPECIFICALLY AGAINST THE LAW RE SERVICE DOGS.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:26 PM
37. So.........all disabled people are segreated instead???
That works for you???
Where does it stop??? What if someone is afraid of wheelchairs...they get segregated, too???
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:35 PM
49. No...NO ONE should be segregated because of ANY disability.
Reasonable accommodations such as moving a person with an allergy or phobia is a much better solution.
Duh...that is the entire point of the ADA.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:20 PM
171. Bingo!
Exactly and this is what I have been trying to express. Some people seem to think I want BETTER treatment. I just want EQUAL treatment. There are no segregated sections for others with disabilities where they HAVE to sit...so why should there be one for those with a service dog? If there is a problem...deal with it EQUALLY and accommodate both parties. Do not do it by discriminating against one handicap over others before the fact.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:09 PM
163. Wow...
...and from my fav prez, too.
If you would have read, you would have seen that I have said several times in this thread that if there was an allergy problem, I would have had NO problem moving.
How would YOU like it if the restaurant automatically put anyone with an allergy in a separate area and not allow them anywhere else in the restaurant. We were suppose to sit by the door that went to the garbage dumb. Does that work for you?
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:33 PM
48. Hug back...
...I was so embarrassed...I went to the car and cried. It's bad enough to be cut out of most of anything audio and/or verbal going on around oneself, but to be told that the assistance device -- a service dog -- is offensive and so offensive that you MUST be segregated because others have more rights...I felt like I had been gut punched.
I was humiliated. Embarrassed. And wishing I was "normal" so I could just go outside my home without trouble or without being looked upon differently.
Oh geezuz God.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:58 PM
70. Thank you for the info...
...this is not the first time I have had trouble with Spires. One manager asked what my disability was -- against the law to do that -- and I said the dog is an "alert dog." Then he looked at me and made a guess I was hearing impaired and said that he thought I could hear just fine and that I did not need the dog. I guess this idiot had never hear of lip reading.
I am going to do something about it this time. First time, the owner of Spires was apologetic and told me that I would not have any further problems and was mortified at what happened.
SSDD -- I guess this manager simply is a total idiot with his "new" policy of segregating the handicapped.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:44 PM
60. Most people are pretty cool and ask if they can pet the dog...
...one restaurant sets her a special place and gives her treats to take home. It is rare that she is not loved and admired and basically blessed for the service she does.
She is an excellent dog...extremely well behaved and quiet. Minds every command either verbal or unspoken immediately.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:06 PM
78. I am allergic to perfume...
...soooo....people wearing perfume or after shave get segregated immediately to separate sections, too?
I don't understand you post. My dog is a NECESSITY, not a luxury. If someone has an allergy, I would have moved if they could not move. I understand the need to have certain accommodations made. My mother had COPD and heavy perfume, cigarette smoke (no smoke free areas or prohibitions when she was alive) and heavy scents of after shave shut down her ability to breath.
I have no problem with accommodating anyone with a problem. However, being told I am less valuable than someone with an allergy or a phobia...so I cannot sit where others sit just in case, that is wrong. And it is also against the ADA -- service dog users cannot be segregated from others.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:13 PM
84. Big time...and the fines for discrimination are HORRENDOUS!
My understanding as a retired lawyer:
The court will issue an injunction against the establishment and, further, will fine them and award attorneys fees and costs.
I am NOT interested in receiving one single cent from any lawsuit -- all I want is to be able to move around by having reasonable accommodations made for me.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:14 PM
167. If they are seated and eating and someone asks, I have NO problem of going to another area.
I have allergies...and I understand. It is the blanket policy of isolation and segregation that gets to me. If there is a problem that happens -- then do something, but do not discriminate before the fact.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 03:11 PM
81. If someone has an extreme allergy...
...all they have to do is say something and I would without hesitation not be seated anywhere near them. That is not the problem here -- my service dog was offensive because it bothered other patrons for aesthetic reasons and not health reasons. And...the segregation was a policy and not dependent on anyone having allergies, etc.
A dislike of animals is NOT a valid reason to deny rights to a handicapped person who MUST USE a service dog.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:02 PM
157. I have severe difficulties with hearing things which are behind me.
Such as crossing a parking lot to get to the restaurant entrance -- I cannot hear people, cars, etc., approaching me from the rear. Also: Inside, if I get up from the table for any reason, I cannot hear people behind me or servers with hot food trays, even if they call out to me. My dog when outside pulls me away from sounds behind me -- such as to the side of a parking lot, roadway or side walk, or stops to let me know I need to be aware of what is behind me both inside a building and outside. If I am alone in a restaurant and a waiter or waitress walks up to me, at times I do not realize he or she may be there and speaking to me and the dog alerts to them by bumping my arm. If an alarm goes off -- such as a smoke alarm, my dog lets me know.
The most important thing with the dog and being in public is usually in grocery stores -- people at times let their children run around without supervision and I have avoided being run over several times by electric carts and children. My dog rides on a blanket in the "child section" of the cart with her head pointing to my left and I stay to the right. If something fast approaches from the rear, she alerts me immediately.
Malls are often a circus -- especially during holidays and right after school lets out. Same thing there -- dog lets me know if someone or something is fast approaching from the rear or if an alarm bell is going off.
In addition to being hearing impaired, I have some problems keeping my balance due to a hereditary disease. So, the dog alerting is very important to my safety for this reason as well.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 05:34 PM
173. I can understand being offended...that is one thing.
But what did they have to do to get a restaurant manager to segregate me from everyone else? And why would anyone agree to discriminate against any handicapped person?
This thread is amazing to me -- it's not an argument about what handicap or disability is worse -- it's about discrimination. PERIOD. There are accommodations for all handicaps and disabilities...and then there is discrimination from the get-go against certain ones.
I cannot understand why people cannot see the difference.
Whine, whine, whine.....
There's a star-studded galaxy of PoP (primitives of prominence) at this campfire, a few of whom are even being reasonable; check it out.
Among the idiots, Skippy from New York City's condescendingly all over the campfire, as usual.
Eat shit and die, Audrey; you make the rest of we deaf look bad.
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I must say, I lost my supper, just recently eaten, when barely halfway through the campfire (before most of the reasonable primitives showed up).
"I'm handicapped; I'm special."
The **** you are, Audrey.
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I thought of franksolich right away when I saw this thread this morning. I wondered what the Swede says when the coach comes into the diner with his service animal to enjoy a burger with all the grease squeezed out of it.
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Wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if the offended restaurant patrons were Muslims, after all, they consider dogs an unclean animal :whistling:
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Liberals. Always, always wanting special treatment and a handout. Always.
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I thought of franksolich right away when I saw this thread this morning. I wondered what the Swede says when the coach comes into the diner with his service animal to enjoy a burger with all the grease squeezed out of it.
If I had a service animal--it's been recommended, but I'm waiting until old age to get one--and walked in with it, Swede would tell me to get the dog the Hell out of his bar.
And for very good reason, too; dogs even well-kept can carry diseases.
And besides, one's safer in a bar (or restaurant) than at one's home.
Audrey's just being a bitch; "I'm handicapped. I'm special."
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Liberals. Always, always wanting special treatment and a handout. Always.
I dunno if this is true in other places, but the McDonald's drive-throughs around here have a Braille screen near the speaker.
Talk about absurd; like blind people drive?
Damn.
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Spires? Seriously? Those places are like for old people anyway.
Christ, you want to brag about going to breakfast, the least the DUmmie could have done was set the bouncy someplace decent, like the Ocean Diner, Good Stuff, Wendy's in El Segundo, or even the Local Yolk.
But Spires? Blech. I wouldn't want my dog in there either--poor bastard'll probably end up puking his guts out.
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To be clear- I am not the Breakfast at Tiffany's DUmmy.
You all know Velvet, my hearing dog. She would never work for a DUmmy.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/conscave/VelvetLaborDay_zpsfd5ff62a.jpg)
Has no time for DUmmies.
In this case, the Breakfast at Tiffany's DUmmy is correct. From ADA.gov: People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. (http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm)
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The Breakfast at Tiffany's DUmmy was offended when the manager asked him about the nature of his disability...
but he had no qualms about writing about it at length on the Internet.
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I am a puny old man....I got a service elephant, now seat us.
Yeah, ridiculous, I know. Didn't DUmmie say he was out with friends? Why couldn't he leave the dog at home and depend on his friends? Never mind, It wouldn't say, "Hey look at me, I'm special.....now kiss my butt."
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Didn't DUmmie say she was out with a friend? Why couldn't she leave the dog at home and depend on her friend?
Yeah, that.
Never mind, It wouldn't say, "Hey look at me, I'm special.....now kiss my butt."
Uh huh.
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I am a puny old man....I got a service elephant, now seat us.
Yeah, ridiculous, I know. Didn't DUmmie say he was out with friends? Why couldn't he leave the dog at home and depend on his friends? Never mind, It wouldn't say, "Hey look at me, I'm special.....now kiss my butt."
Promoting helplessness and dependence on others, Johnny? That is not conservatism as I know it.
Try this exercise: Substitute a blind handler with a Seeing Eye Dog, and ask yourself if you would give the same advice.
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In this case, the Breakfast at Tiffany's DUmmy is correct. From ADA.gov: People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. (http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm)
Oh, but some of us go places where it's not fit for a dog.
Loud raucous people, cigarette smoke, noise, an ever-shifting crowd that might confuse.
One has to think of the poor dog too.
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Bennyboy (9,379 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 07:41 PM
191. I am going to play Devil's advocate here...
I am a dog lover, having two right now....(but they never leave my yard)
and tell ya that the "Service dog" is a HUGE problem in California. So many people have them, and for all kinds of maladies, that in some cases it is creating a huge problem for all kinds of businesses from grocery stores to restaurants to concerts and bars. it is not you, or the other guy but lots of people have them for some pretty lame reasons and now there are zillions of people who have them strictly so they can take their dogs anywhere. And please don't tell me that does not happen. It does, I know people, a lot of people, who do this.
So the business owner, who doesn't want dogs, has to do something. Dogs no matter how behaved, shed. And that hair becomes a problem to remove and increases the probability of customer complaints. The servers hate the dogs because if they touch them they have to wash immediately. And in a restaurant with dogs that is going to happen. One dog in a restaurant okay. Two dogs and I get antsy and more than that, well I will leave. No matter the patch or the breed. At my local Starbux there is a trainer of aide dogs and he brings his usual dog in and two dogs he is training at all times and they wander from patron to patron for a couple of hours in the morning. By the time those dogs have walked one end to the other of the restaurant many times.
As I am in the concert biz, we direct our staff to let anyone in with a service dog. and sometimes that can be hundreds of people at a large concert or festival.
Now imagine, if you are the promoter and those dogs cause a problem (such as the baby dieing in the dog fight at the Hog Farm way back when). How does the promoter both allow dogs and prevent that type of thing from happening? I have been to restaurants with four or five service dogs there. I have been to groceries that have multiple dogs inside, all with a patch and that really puts me off.
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Oh, but some of us go places where it's not fit for a dog.
Loud raucous people, cigarette smoke, noise, an ever-shifting crowd that might confuse.
One has to think of the poor dog too.
As do I. Add to your list motorcycle rides, biker bars, and shooting ranges. I leave Velvet at home- but the decision is mine. No business owner or third party makes the decision for me, nor does the law permit them to.
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Promoting helplessness and dependence on others, Johnny? That is not conservatism as I know it.
Try this exercise: Substitute a blind handler with a Seeing Eye Dog, and ask yourself if you would give the same advice.
NOPE.
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Promoting helplessness and dependence on others, Johnny? That is not conservatism as I know it.
Uh no, it's not promoting helplessness and dependence.
Everybody, including utterly normal people, are helpless and dependent in some things.
I find that normal people depend on me to detect if someone's lying or not, because all they're hearing is words, while I'm watching body-language. And body-language doesn't lie.
And among those of us lesser endowed, there's the case of my best friend from childhood and adolescence; he was born with a withered right arm and I was born deaf. If there was any heavy lifting to be done, I did it, and if there was any talking-and-listening to be done, he did it. It worked out well; excellently.
Pure self-reliance in all things is a myth, impossible.
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Uh no, it's not promoting helplessness and dependence.
Frank, in this case, that is exactly what it is.
Why couldn't he leave the dog at home and depend on his friends?
Can't get any clearer than that.
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NOPE.
Why not?
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Frank, in this case, that is exactly what it is.
Can't get any clearer than that.
Oh now, sir, I again strenuously disagree.
If I had a service dog, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to leave it at home while I went to some sort of environment uncomfortable for it.
Surely as a retired military and a retired law-enforcement, you understand better than I do, the ways and the frequency in which we rely upon others.
Especially in social encounters, I lean on friends, just as they lean on me in other sorts of things. Leaning on each other, we both stand upright.
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nadin should get a service dog for spelling, and another for grammar.
The law would allow her to take them anywhere.
DUmmy Audrey is just another professional invalid, looking for someone to sue.
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DUmmy Audrey is just another professional invalid, looking for someone to sue.
She gives me the impression she's riding on the disability gravy train, a first-class ticket in the parlor car.
"I'm handicapped. I'm entitled," that sort of thing.
The problem is, Audrey isn't content with being treated like a mere queen; she wants to be treated like an empress, on our dime.
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You know, what disgusted me about this campfire--seriously, I found it nauseatingly vomitous--was that if Audrey found something like this worth her time and trouble whining about, then Audrey's had a pretty easy life.....and probably an easier life than many non-deaf people.
So she's either an entitlement queen or a trust-fund kiddie.
When one thinks of all the perils and hazards the deaf confront in our everyday lives, something like this doesn't even register the minorest "blip" on the radar.
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Wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if the offended restaurant patrons were Muslims, after all, they consider dogs an unclean animal :whistling:
I was thinking the same. I'm certain Audrey would have, in that case, been forgiving of the Spires policy. Liberal priority would put not offending Muslims above all else.
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Promoting helplessness and dependence on others, Johnny? That is not conservatism as I know it.
Try this exercise: Substitute a blind handler with a Seeing Eye Dog, and ask yourself if you would give the same advice.
Big Dog, I understand why you have a dog in this hunt(no pun intended) but are you really suggesting that people should never ask for help or depend on the people who love and care about them? I think as conservatives we have to be careful not to hoist ourselves on our own petard in regards to this and look rigid in certain areas. It's a reality that as we age, we likely are going to need help of some kind with tasks that may have been routine at one time--driving, shopping, cooking. My autistic son will ALWAYS need the help of his family and friends and society at large and that does not make him liberal. There is no shame in accepting the help of others just because other people like dummies take advantage of it and that is why I think conservatives have become so rigid about this issue because of how your average low information voters treats the kindness of others.
As for the dog issue, I really don't get it. I eat at the homes of people with pets(including my own) and I don't have an issue with consuming food with the animal near by. Who are the pearl clutchers of the world who do? (And yes, I know service dogs are not necessarily pets, but a dog is a dog is a dog as far as what they are generally speaking and if one would have no problem eating in the home of a friend with a pet, then one should not be disturbed by eating in a restaurant with a service dog nearby.)
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Big Dog, I understand why you have a dog in this hunt(no pun intended) but are you really suggesting that people should never ask for help or depend on the people who love and care about them?
That is not what I am saying at all.
A service dog is a tool which allows people with disabilities to function more independently, like a prosthetic leg or a wheelchair. Independence and personal responsibility are conservative values. Johnny asked the question "why not leave the dog at home and depend on your friends?" The answer is, "because independent people don't depend on their friends for things they can do themselves."
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Oh now, sir, I again strenuously disagree.
If I had a service dog, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to leave it at home while I went to some sort of environment uncomfortable for it.
I agree with you 100%. I make that decision every day- I don't take Velvet to places that are unsafe or uncomfortable for her. In those cases, either she stays home, or we both do.
Make the case that the DUmmy's greasy spoon is an uncomfortable or unsafe environment for a service dog.
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My autistic son will ALWAYS need the help of his family and friends and society at large and that does not make him liberal.
How would you respond if you went to a restaurant and your son, who is capable of eating without assistance, instead sat on his hands and expected you to feed him?
He would just be leaving his hands at home and depending on his family, right?
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Bottom line, boys and girls?
This never happened.
How would I know? Simple--a two-minute phone call to any media outlet in the South Bay or even the greater Los Angeles area, and this thing would have blown up OVERNIGHT.
It's the kind of shit that liberal media in a liberal mecca like LA eats up with a spoon and comes back asking for seconds. But it's nowhere to be found. Like it never even happened.
Having been born there, and spent a significant chunk of my adult life there prior to leaving several years ago, this kind of story would have been in the radio, newspapers and possibly television in between the gang riot at the high school, county jail, etc., and the latest series of home invasion robberies. But nada. Zippo. Nuthin.
Nope, ain't buying a word of the story. More likely, if this DUmmie ever went to Spires (which one was it, btw, DUmmie?) they probably had a huge line and were told they'd have to wait like everyone else, but used the "my dog can't come in" as the excuse. THAT I've seen before.
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This never happened.....
More likely, if this DUmmie ever went to Spires (which one was it, btw, DUmmie?) they probably had a huge line and were told they'd have to wait like everyone else, but used the "my dog can't come in" as the excuse. THAT I've seen before.
Or "I'm handicapped; feel sorry for me, and let me in front of the line"--that, I've heard before, although from people with other afflictions, not deafness.
Even this morning after, this still pisses me off.
For being a deaf (or really, merely hard of hearing) female, and this is the biggest ordeal Audrey can bitch about, instead of whining, she should get down on her knees and thank God for having given her such an easy life.
The world's pretty rough for anyone who's deaf, but it's harder if one's a woman. Women tend to be trusting creatures, which puts a deaf woman at especially a disadvantage. I don't know all deaf women, but I know some deaf women, and it's, uh, rather interesting that all of them that I know, were used or abused sexually, and violently so.
This bitch, by whining about such a picayune thing, trivializes the real perils and hazards her sisters have to endure.
And oh my, the humiliation, the embarrassment, she had to put up with, that made her so distraught she had to go out to her car and cry. Such a delicate flower, such a fragile vessel.
Audrey, sweetheart, either grow up or drop dead, preferably the latter.
You're a lousy excuse for a deaf person, a woman, a human being.
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Wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if the offended restaurant patrons were Muslims, after all, they consider dogs an unclean animal :whistling:
That was my 1st thought. My 2nd one was "why does the DUmmie hate muslims?".
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The Muslim population in the South Bay is pretty much insignificant. So no, the Muslim/dog argument is out.
Butthurt and whiny excuse is still in, however.
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I don't understand the need to take the dog to a restaurant for hearing. It's not like the dog can order for you. Even if she was blind, she still had her friend with her who could help her.
I haven't been to that Spires in years (food was gross). But my memory of it is that it was full of booths, and the only place to put the dog would have been out in the isle. A tripping danger to both the customers and the servers.
Maybe the area set aside for the patrons with dogs was a safety issue. I think this woman's complaint is totally unreasonable.
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And remember, boys and girls, the whole gist of the ADA is "reasonable accommodation", not "give me what I want, when I want it, how I want it" crap.
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Gah what a complainer!!!!
I bet she gets spit in her food all the time at restaurants.
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Regardless of the right or wrong of this, I just love her word choices, just dripping with victimization.
Instead of "Hey, this restaurant did something I didn't think was cool" we get:
"I WAS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST"
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This is a primitive we are talking about. She was probably segregated because the stench emanating off it was putting the customers off their food. But they had no issue with the dog.
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Frank, Big Dog, excuse my ignorance, but, like Dori, I fail to see the need of a dog for a deaf person. What service(s) do they provide?
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Frank, Big Dog, excuse my ignorance, but, like Dori, I fail to see the need of a dog for a deaf person. What service(s) do they provide?
I was thinking the same thing, but not being devoid of hearing, I was trying to put myself in someone's position with this impairment.
How is the dog necessary in a restaurant to a deaf person? Does the dog understand English and can he translate "Pigs In A Blanket" into sign language?
Perhaps crossing the street, etc. ????
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Hepburn (19,060 posts) Sun Oct 13, 2013, 02:35 PM
49. No...NO ONE should be segregated because of ANY disability.
OK, I hope they put you next to the Crohn's/Tourette's table.
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OK, I hope they put you next to at the Crohn's/Tourette's table.
Fixed, DAT. :cheersmate:
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Well looks like I'll be going to Spires in Torrance for Lunch! :-)
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OK, I hope they put you next to the Crohn's/Tourette's table.
Got a distant relative with an extreme case of Tourette's syndrome. He has been very successful in life. He is well liked and quite well respected by all those that know him.....and scares the hell out of people when they first encounter him. :-) He never let Tourette's stop him from dealing with the public. He started and ran three very successful businesses that required a lot of contact with the public. Scared the hell out of me the first time I was around him. I spent a lot of my weekends with him and his wife as a teenager. Loved them both. I could tell some funny stories.....but I won't.
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So, evidently, the seating area for service dogs is somehow inadequate as compared to the rest of the restaurant...ripped seats, dirt floor, poor lighting so you feel like you're blind and deaf? The waitress doesn't come to your table as often, only fills your water once, coffee gets cold before she refills, your meal sits there for 20 minutes before she brings it to your table.
It would be better, really, for you to sit down, get your water, coffe, whatever, all settled in real comfy and all and one of the people across from you has an allergy. So now, the waitress has to stop what she's doing (you aren't her only customer), find a place AWAY FROM THE OTHER CUSTOMERS, get you settled, new silverware, fresh water, etc. Finally, everyone else who've waiting been for their meals can be served. Of course, they've been sitting under the hot lights drying out while she's been busy moving you around to the same area you would've been in if you were seated there in the first place.
Or what about when the person in the booth behind (because they never saw you come in with your dog) you starts coughing, has an asthma attack from dog allergies and has to be rushed to the hospital. I'm sure you'll feel significantly concerned and worried...for about 2 minutes until you realize the emergency has kept the waitress from taking your order for 15 minutes. But hey, now you can run to DU, compain about the service and how they almost KILLED a customer!
Cindie
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Seeing eye dogs should be accommodated wherever it's reasonable.
The others are just dogs.
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Frank, Big Dog, excuse my ignorance, but, like Dori, I fail to see the need of a dog for a deaf person. What service(s) do they provide?
My very good friend Big Dog and I are naturally going to disagree--but not being primitives, it doesn't affect our liking for each other--because of wholly-different life experiences, but a dog can be of invaluable service to a deaf person.
A dog can be trained to sense that its owner can't hear, and that its job is to alert its owner when the dog hears some noise the dog interprets as indicating something or someone dangerous.
This is what I mean by there's more perils and hazards for franksolich while at home, then there are when I'm out and about. I live out in the middle of nowhere, the nearest neighbor six miles away, but with a semi-major highway just two miles north of here. This is the only residence for miles and miles around that looks as if occupied. I can use a special telephone, but it's clumsy and awkward.
It's a natural place for people to approach if they're in some sort of trouble (car trouble, whatnot) or if they're looking to create some mischief.
One of the consequences of being deaf is that one isn't aware of what's behind one, or on either side of one; only what's in front of one. Hearing people might hear a noise or something, and turn around to look, but I of course hear no noise.
The hippywife primitive Mrs. Alfred Packer's hippyhubby Wild Bill could be noisily trampling around inside this house right now, and I'd be the last person to know it (unless, of course, he was right in front of me). He could come up to me from behind and garrote me, and I'd never know what happened.
Big Dog might have some other uses for a service dog, but that's what I consider the essential purpose of them; to warn one that danger might be in the offing. I can't think of any other purpose, but perhaps he can.
Currently, my situation is that there's five cats here, who came with the place, who seem to "understand" that I can't hear, and raise a ruckus when they sense that something isn't kosher, and want to alert me about it. They're very good at it, but alas I don't give them as much credence as I would a dog (since cats aren't as bright as dogs).
Three summers ago, a tornado (fortunately only a small one) swept through this place during the middle of the night, doing considerable property damage, and some minutes before it came, the cats scrambled all over my sleeping body, to wake me up. Ultimately giving up, they high-tailed it to the bathroom.
I half-slept through the whole thing; never knew it'd happened until I woke up the next morning.
If a dog'd done that, I would've wakened up sharply, "oh, something's wrong....."
It's been recommended for years that I get a dog to "hear" for me--here at home--but there's the problem with all these cats, and their incompatibility with dogs. And the cats were here first. I'm basically waiting for the cats to die--the youngest one's now eight years old--after which I plan to go to the veterinary and adapt two mutts nobody else wants and train them to "listen" for me.
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What a whiny crybaby!
WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3514120/little-brat-o.gif)
:siren: CRYBABY ALERT! :siren:
(http://i3.tinypic.com/vr3qlk.jpg)
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023841426
Oh my.
What a ****ing whiner.
Before I get started--and I'm pretty pissed at this whining--for those in the audience here who aren't aware, franksolich is deaf. I was born without ears; just a couple of little tabs or flaps where hearing people have ear-lobes. "Microtia," caused by what's medically-termed an "environmental accident," in this case exposure to the chemical Accutane while still in the womb. The grotesque deformity is covered up by a good head of thick, healthy hair.
Okay.
It's a very big campfire, taking a long time to scroll down.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
"I'm handicapped. I'm 'special'."
Geezuz fudging Christ.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Oh geezuz God.
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
Whine, whine, whine.....
There's a star-studded galaxy of PoP (primitives of prominence) at this campfire, a few of whom are even being reasonable; check it out.
Among the idiots, Skippy from New York City's condescendingly all over the campfire, as usual.
Eat shit and die, Audrey; you make the rest of we deaf look bad.
OMG, Coach! If ya need to hunt this dipshit down I'm available! Of all the snivelin' bunch of bullshit I've ever heard!
I'd recommend movin' outa Torance, DUmbass! I've never run across an establishment that didn't cater to the needs of the handicapped! Not even in Kalifornica!
Dummies lie, they lie all the time!
I suspect this is nothin' more than BS!
Seeing eye dogs should be accommodated wherever it's reasonable.
The others are just dogs.
Ya don't have a dog, do ya Gobie?
My dogs alert "Toots" when I can't get up!
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It's been recommended for years that I get a dog to "hear" for me--here at home--but there's the problem with all these cats, and their incompatibility with dogs. And the cats were here first. I'm basically waiting for the cats to die--the youngest one's now eight years old--after which I plan to go to the veterinary and adapt two mutts nobody else wants and train them to "listen" for me.
Well, just to let you know, some indoor/outdoor cats live a long time. Our last two died at 21 and 22. Dogs and cats can get along just fine living together. I've usually had both at the same time and they got along better than the last two cats ever did. Maybe that's why they lived so long, just to irritate each other. :-)
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My dogs alert "Toots" when I can't it get up!
Fixed it for ya, buddy.
:-)
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A dog can be trained to sense that its owner can't hear, and that its job is to alert its owner when the dog hears some noise the dog interprets as indicating something or someone dangerous.
My grandpa told me he used to keep guinea fowl on the farm to alert them of intruders or predators. Of course they had dogs, but he said the guineas were more reliable to sound the alarm.
A cage with a couple of guinea hens might be easier for a restaurant to accept.
I assume they'd be covered as companion animals.
I hope the law doesn't discriminate against birds.
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You're a lousy excuse for a deaf person, a woman, a human being.
For some reason, I thought the whiny bitch DUmmy was an XY chromosome bearer*.
*Studiously avoiding the use of the words "man" or "male" to describe this DUmmy.
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nadin should get a service dog for spelling, and another for grammar.
(http://horsesmouth.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451cb8069e201310f8f902e970c-pi)
Mr. Peabody is not working at the moment.
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Well, just to let you know, some indoor/outdoor cats live a long time. Our last two died at 21 and 22. Dogs and cats can get along just fine living together. I've usually had both at the same time and they got along better than the last two cats ever did. Maybe that's why they lived so long, just to irritate each other. :-)
Well, actually if it takes too long, I'm not going to wait until all the cats have sprung loose of this Mortal Coil.
I suspect a couple of dogs could get along a lot better with just one or two cats, rather than five of them.
So we'll see what happens.
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Seeing eye dogs should be accommodated wherever it's reasonable.
The others are just dogs.
This one's for you:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/conscave/article-0-162CACA6000005DC-118_306x548_zps0876780a.jpg)
Let me know when you are crowned King of the World, and have the authority to decide whether someone else's service dog is legitimate. Until then, keep licking those panties!
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My very good friend Big Dog and I are naturally going to disagree--but not being primitives, it doesn't affect our liking for each other--because of wholly-different life experiences, but a dog can be of invaluable service to a deaf person.
A dog can be trained to sense that its owner can't hear, and that its job is to alert its owner when the dog hears some noise the dog interprets as indicating something or someone dangerous.
You're describing it perfectly, and I agree 100%. A Hearing Dog is trained to alert the handler to specific sounds- that is the Hearing Dog's "task" that is required of qualified Service Dogs under the ADA. Velvet's job is to hear things I can't, to alert me to certain sounds, and to show me the source of sounds.
Velvet is trained to warn me about smoke detectors, ringing telephone, car horns, sirens, doorbells, knocking (as on a door), gunfire, and the beeping on my stove. A handler or trainer can add new sounds as needed- I added the sounds of my cell phone and gunfire to her repertoire. Some dogs are trained to alert to crying babies or boiling water.
One of the consequences of being deaf is that one isn't aware of what's behind one, or on either side of one; only what's in front of one. Hearing people might hear a noise or something, and turn around to look, but I of course hear no noise.
The hippywife primitive Mrs. Alfred Packer's hippyhubby Wild Bill could be noisily trampling around inside this house right now, and I'd be the last person to know it (unless, of course, he was right in front of me). He could come up to me from behind and garrote me, and I'd never know what happened.
Big Dog might have some other uses for a service dog, but that's what I consider the essential purpose of them; to warn one that danger might be in the offing. I can't think of any other purpose, but perhaps he can.
A hearing dog also notices everything in the handler's environment that moves or makes noise. In Velvet's case, she raises her ears and points her nose toward sound and movement sources- which is something I need due to the nature of my hearing loss. I keep her in my field of vision, and I look at whatever she is responding to.
Currently, my situation is that there's five cats here, who came with the place, who seem to "understand" that I can't hear, and raise a ruckus when they sense that something isn't kosher, and want to alert me about it. They're very good at it, but alas I don't give them as much credence as I would a dog (since cats aren't as bright as dogs).
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/conscave/funny-pictures-photos-cats-cat-dog-dogs_zps209ee0a3.jpg)
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Frank, Big dog, excellent answer, and nothing short of what I expected. Thanks for the insight.
:cheersmate:
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Frank, Big dog, excellent answer, and nothing short of what I expected. Thanks for the insight.
:cheersmate:
You can perhaps see the difference in perspectives here; Big Dog uses a service dog for many more purposes, and with more sophistication.
If I had a service dog, I'd use it merely as a watch-dog, nothing else.
It's because Big Dog once had perfect hearing, and knows what he's missing.
Myself, never having known any other life but this, have no idea what I'm really missing, but as nothing can be done about it, just having someone (person, animal) watching my back is about all for which one can reasonably hope.
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Oh man.
From the end of the campfire, which seems to have burned out now:
Name removed Message auto-removed
uppityperson (77,021 posts) Mon Oct 14, 2013, 10:24 PM
241. Uh huh. Tell Frank hi.
^^^an old pal, from AndyScam days.