The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on January 14, 2011, 03:02:57 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x202175
mmonk (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:40 PM
Original message
What do you think of creating a progressive state in the United States?
Could this be a way around a rightwing government? We could create a modern state state with a progressive income tax system that pays its bills, supports a public education system, a superior infrastucture, and health care access for it residents.
BzaDem (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Part of the problem with doing things at the state level is that the top 1% can easily move to
another state.
Makes sense.
Cleita (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And this is bad why?
Let them go. They take everything and contribute nothing. It gives the opportunity for others to step up and to fill the void hopefully in a more egalitarian way that benefits everyone, not just a few.
Capitalocracy (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Agree 100%.
Let them go. Why would we need them? As long as we can pass living wage legislation, maybe legalize the weed and bring in tourism and not spend all our money on prisons, we can create our own economy. All the top 1% do is squeeze the economy anyway, not help it grow.
If stupid were a valuable commodity you all would be the richest in the world.
OneTenthofOnePercent (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. If you have a progressive tax system... and all the rich people leave...
who are going to "progressively tax"?
Interesting question.
Cleita (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Other people will become rich when they leave and fill the void and
Edited on Fri Jan-14-11 03:53 PM by Cleita
not all the rich can leave. They will grumble but they know their fortunes are still tied up in where they live much of the time. They will have to realize that they too must be part of the solution, not the problem. I find this is a big urban legend perpetrated by the rich.
That about sums up the combined knowledge of economics at the DUmp.
LoZoccolo (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think it would never happen because it would require work and thus getting off the Internet. n/t
:rotf: :rotf:
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Those terrible rich people--where do they get off thinking that their money is their money?
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California, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Washington, Oregon, Illinois.
Feel free to add any Lib shitholes you can come up with....
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Hey DUmbasses, it's already happening NOW. Exhibit A: Many conservative southern states are gaining congressional seats. Exhibit B: Many northern liberal states are losing congressional seats.
These idiots have the combined IQ of a fungus.
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Hey DUmbasses, it's already happening NOW. Exhibit A: Many conservative southern states are gaining congressional seats. Exhibit B: Many northern liberal states are losing congressional seats.
These idiots have the combined IQ of a fungus.
I LOVE how CA is leaking money AND political power to Texas. Another census and maybe Texas will nearly match CA in electoral votes. (Is it 34 now, or is that before re-apportionment per the census?)
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I LOVE how CA is leaking money AND political power to Texas. Another census and maybe Texas will nearly match CA in electoral votes. (Is it 34 now, or is that before re-apportionment per the census?)
Just announced today that Carnival Cruise Lines is relocating the POE for the bulk of its southern trips from LA to Galveston, TX, with the loss of millions in revenue and tourism to CA. The cited reason is reduced costs, and the precipitous decline in Mexican cruises due to the drug violence there.
doc
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I LOVE how CA is leaking money AND political power to Texas. Another census and maybe Texas will nearly match CA in electoral votes. (Is it 34 now, or is that before re-apportionment per the census?)
Texas, as expected, gained the most seats, moving from 32 to 36 seats thanks to big gains in population
KC
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You have California, you had Michigan until they decided to wise up about the virtues of regressivism.
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Just announced today that Carnival Cruise Lines is relocating the POE for the bulk of its southern trips from LA to Galveston, TX, with the loss of millions in revenue and tourism to CA. The cited reason is reduced costs, and the precipitous decline in Mexican cruises due to the drug violence there.
doc
I don't understand, why would there be a decline in Mexican cruise revenue? :???:Janet Incompatano has repeatedly assured us that our borders are secure. Surely they wouldn't be if Mexico were unsafe! :evillaugh:
HEY, why doesn't the DLC schedule the next Presidential Convention in sunny, peaceful Mejico. :stirpot:
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Have fun and stay on your side. If you cross the state line, we will shoot you. <---- is that threatening? lol
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California, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Washington, Oregon, Illinois.
Feel free to add any Lib shitholes you can come up with....
Noooooo, don't leave me here to rot! :bawl:
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Hey DUmbasses, it's already happening NOW. Exhibit A: Many conservative southern states are gaining congressional seats. Exhibit B: Many northern liberal states are losing congressional seats.
These idiots have the combined IQ of a fungus.
There's an old saying here in Maryland from the Eastern Shore that is quite appropriate:
"They are dumber than a shucked oyster"
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So says Wile E. Coyote, Super Duper Genius!
I just love how they think they will convince everyone in their "Progressive State" to give up 70% of their earnings so they can have a feel good moment!
I'm curious, asshat, just how do ya get rich when 70% of your income is confiscated? Isn't that against your religion anyway? Anything over 75 grand will belong to gubmint, won't it? I spose to you cow pies that's rich, but I fear you will have a rude awakening when your "working wage" makes all your products so expensive no one will be able to actually "buy" them!
Do ya really think DUmpin more dollars into education, oops, y'all will have to come up with your own currency since it won't be worth nearly as much as the national currency won't ya, you bein' progressive and all, will make your children any smarter because you teach them the proper way of "installin" a rubber? Or that it's okay for Sam and Dan to have 6 kids, all boys ages 8 thru 13!
Do ya pay attention at all? DC spends more per kid than damn near anywhere else yet, has some of the DUmbest kids on the planet! And those are the one's that actually graduate for cripes sake! Heaven help ya when a full 40% refuse to show up in class since you people refuse to hold them accountable! All that "we can't keep score, and grades could hurt their feelings" crap!
I could go on, but it is clear you must have attended school in DC! Or perhaps your parents let ya skip class! Would explain a lot, wouldn't it, DUmbass?
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Noooooo, don't leave me here to rot! :bawl:
Don't worry BEG. Your husbands company will be moving with all the other companies. Probably to Texas!
:-)
KC
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Have fun and stay on your side. If you cross the state line, we will shoot you. <---- is that threatening? lol
Only if you try to cross the state line :-)
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Don't worry BEG. Your husbands company will be moving with all the other companies. Probably to Texas!
:-)
KC
I highly doubt it, the company culture isn't Texas material. God how I wish it were.
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Noooooo, don't leave me here to rot! :bawl:
You're granted a lifetime exit visa :-)
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I highly doubt it, the company culture isn't Texas material. God how I wish it were.
Culture smulture. Taxes are what drives away companies. CA if fixing to try to stick it to a whole bunch of them. They are going to leave in droves if that happens. If CA backs off ... you may be stuck.
KC
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Only if you try to cross the state line :-)
I'll be a dhimmi if you let me in! Pay double taxes! Wash Texans' cars! For mercy's sake, I live in NY, man! Have pity!
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Culture smulture. Taxes are what drives away companies. CA if fixing to try to stick it to a whole bunch of them. They are going to leave in droves if that happens. If CA backs off ... you may be stuck.
KC
Man I hope you are right.
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Other people will become rich when they leave and fill the void and
Edited on Fri Jan-14-11 03:53 PM by Cleita
not all the rich can leave. They will grumble but they know their fortunes are still tied up in where they live much of the time. They will have to realize that they too must be part of the solution, not the problem. I find this is a big urban legend perpetrated by the rich.
Oh yeah, I know if I was a budding entrepreneur the first place I'd want to put down roots is the new Venezuela of Norteamerica.
:mental:
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I highly doubt it, the company culture isn't Texas material. God how I wish it were.
Trust me, there is a time when the cost of doing business will overcome the most ingrained "culture".
doc
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You're granted a lifetime exit visa :-)
I want the same for NY...I hate it here as much as BEG does California I bet.
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Only if you try to cross the state line :-)
I hope you aren't depending on the federal gummint to secure those borders.
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I want the same for NY...I hate it here as much as BEG does California I bet.
But you're not a gurl!
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But you're not a gurl!
No,but still miserably trapped here due to family issues. :banghead:
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No,but still miserably trapped here due to family issues. :banghead:
I think you would have to marry me to get an "in". Everthing comes through me.
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I think you would have to marry me to get an "in". Everthing comes through me.
That sounds like a perfect plan. :naughty:
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Imajika (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Jan-14-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. All too often though, that is not what happens....
As long as our 50 states are effectively competing with one another, it is hard to prevent the upper and business classes from simply taking their money and going elsewhere. Hell, they can still sell stuff in your progressive state, they just don't base their operations there thus depriving your state of the tax revenue. States are constantly trying to poach other states businesses to their own states by promising lower taxes and special incentives.
Illinois just the other day significantly raised state tax rates, and the result has been that Wisconsin, Indiana and others will make every effort to lure Illinois businesses away - and all too often be successful at it.
One of the things those who support a far more progressive tax system must do is work around this environment of state competition. One way would to have the Federal government level additional taxes that they turn around and block grant back to the states that they received the additional taxes from. Perhaps some kind of special upper income surcharge. This would mean the new tax effects ALL the states (and everyone in them) equally thus preventing business and the wealthy from trying to skate out of paying their fair share.
Creating a more progressive tax structure on the local and state level is one of the issues I focus most on, and it is hard for me to see it really getting done if we don't figure out ways to work around this problem of many states constant efforts at luring the business and upper classes away using special tax breaks and incentives.
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Jan-14-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Well, being blackmailed by the top 1% doesn't work
either. Seems to me that those businesses who want to sell to us, should be able to accept laws that give them the privilege to sell in your state if they are out of state. Tariffs and out-of-state business licenses or even expecting them to incorporate in your state so that any income they make in your state is subject to corporate tax are a few of the things that come to mind to me. I mean if you can make the legislature cooperate here, it shouldn't be a huge problem. I can see a lot of sources of income that aren't tapped into because of the fear that they might go away. Remember they are just as dependent on doing business in your state as you need them. And if they aren't, good riddance.
I think most businesses could get along just fine selling to the other 57 states.
That much stupid should hurt. :banghead:
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California, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Washington, Oregon, Illinois.
Feel free to add any Lib shitholes you can come up with....
Those aren't states. They're countries.
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If creating a "progressive state" is such a great idea, how come nobody is flocking behind it? The answer is: Because progressivism is an illusion that, when implemented, leads to slavery and mass death.
Freedom is the enemy of Progressivism.
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Also, consider that people are leaving MA in droves, as they are in Maine...so much so, that the population of Maine is less than that of New Hampshire for the first time since 1800.
Maryland went to the "stick-it-to-the-rich" taxes. 300,000 millionaires left the state.
New Jersey has sucked the life out of their taxpayers. Ditto Illinois, Minnesota, and Washington.
Want me to keep going, libtards?
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California, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Washington, Oregon, Illinois.
Feel free to add any Lib shitholes you can come up with....
The sad thing is that even in these worst of the crumbling socialist states, way over 90% of the state is purely conservative. Their downfall is forced by small blue slivers of geography that are teeming, crawling, seething with government-dependent democrat voters, some living, many long dead but still loyal to the party. New York, for example, without the southeasternmost 5% of its area, would be a solid red bastion. It's not unlike a great ship being sent to the bottom by a small hole below its waterline.
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Does anyone recall DUmmyville?
A few years back a town up north in New England somewhere, I believe, was up for sale.
A group of DUmmies talked about buying it and having their own progressive paradise.
It got about as far as quarantinefoxnews.com got. :lmao:
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oops it was in Washington state,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2105558
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The sad thing is that even in these worst of the crumbling socialist states, way over 90% of the state is purely conservative. Their downfall is forced by small blue slivers of geography that are teeming, crawling, seething with government-dependent democrat voters, some living, many long dead but still loyal to the party. New York, for example, without the southeasternmost 5% of its area, would be a solid red bastion. It's not unlike a great ship being sent to the bottom by a small hole below its waterline.
That analogy would follow, but let me add to it--the "small hole below its waterline" was made by a Mark 48 ADCAP. Maybe Sparky can tell ya what kind of "small hole" that makes.
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Noooooo, don't leave me here to rot! :bawl:
You and K can be kidnapped, doll. Don't ever question the reach of the VRWC. :evillaugh:
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If creating a "progressive state" is such a great idea, how come nobody is flocking behind it?
Same reason no one flocked behind Air America?
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I love it that a poster there actually realized that if all the rich people left, they'd have no one to tax "progressively". Deep down, they know their liberal socialist utopia is a sham and a fraud, nothing more than unrealistic make-believe.
But yeah, liberals are going to get to establish their own un-American state within the borders of the US (where they can ignore any law they wish and make up their own as they choose) when Hell freezes over. No one is just going to let them do whatever they want, unless enough of the voters of a state get behind a politician that spouts their nutty ideas. Plenty of states in the union already are slouching towards this.
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That analogy would follow, but let me add to it--the "small hole below its waterline" was made by a Mark 48 ADCAP. Maybe Sparky can tell ya what kind of "small hole" that makes.
Doesn't even make a "small hole". A modern torpedo detonates UNDER the hull of a boat or ship, creating a vacuum, where the weight of the ship breaks the keel.
Hey, imagine that--nice anaolgy--the vacuum created causes the whole system to collapse upon itself.
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If you support the 10th Amendment you support the OP.
I do and as long as there is an understanding amongst all parties that whatever policies they freely adopt will never be supported by federal bailout I wish them the best of luck.
Seriously. They have the right to do just what they are talking about and they should be encouraged to withdraw their incessant demands that all solutions be federalized in favor of seeking state and local solutions.
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The problem is, those "progressive" states we already have are going to shit.
They're going to be looking for a bailout from the FEDERAL government when they're finally well and truly insolvent.
If the feds do in fact bail them out, THAT more than anything else will be the trip point for the Second American Revolution.
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The problem is, those "progressive" states we already have are going to shit.
They're going to be looking for a bailout from the FEDERAL government when they're finally well and truly insolvent.
If the feds do in fact bail them out, THAT more than anything else will be the trip point for the Second American Revolution.
I never thought I'd do this, but I'm going to say this: New Gov. Cuomo, a Dem, seems to be making the right noises about closing the defecit in NY.
But, I think that you're right about the "trip point."
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Capitalocracy (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Agree 100%.
Let them go. Why would we need them? As long as we can pass living wage legislation, maybe legalize the weed and bring in tourism and not spend all our money on prisons, we can create our own economy. All the top 1% do is squeeze the economy anyway, not help it grow.
I would honestly love to watch this FAIL in front of my eyes. Would take less than a year. :rotf:
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Capitalocracy (1000+ posts) Fri Jan-14-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Agree 100%.
Let them go. Why would we need them? As long as we can pass living wage legislation, maybe legalize the weed and bring in tourism and not spend all our money on prisons, we can create our own economy. All the top 1% do is squeeze the economy anyway, not help it grow.
Uh, DUmmy Capitalocracy, if you drive out the wealthy people, who is going to pay you that living wage? And what is it you're going to do to earn it?
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Uh, DUmmy Capitalocracy, if you drive out the wealthy people, who is going to pay you that living wage? And what is it you're going to do to earn it?
Sell drugs to the stoners from all the other states, apparently. At least until the other states get tired, and set up border checkpoints to stop the influx of drugs from Progressia.
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I say let them create their regressive state, but not on this planet.
Ship them to Mars. Hell, paying for them to go there would be cheaper than continuing their social programs here.
They could "live off the land", so to speak. Summers there are 6 months long, and since the have their heads up their asses anyway, they are used to a low/no oxygen atmosphere.
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The problem is, those "progressive" states we already have are going to shit.
They're going to be looking for a bailout from the FEDERAL government when they're finally well and truly insolvent.
If the feds do in fact bail them out, THAT more than anything else will be the trip point for the Second American Revolution.
Obama is already talking about state stimulus bailout. It will never pass the house, and it shouldn't -- but if the Messiah is thinking he is getting re-elected he is mistaken. Massive cuts of municipal workers and state programs are on the horizon for FY12. It's about to get very ugly kids.
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Gee, didn't take long for the primitives to dredge this up again --
I though the plan last time was for all of them to move to Vermont, gradually replace the laws with moonbat ones, and then secede ?
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Gee, didn't take long for the primitives to dredge this up again --
I though the plan last time was for all of them to move to Vermont, gradually replace the laws with moonbat ones, and then secede ?
Only if they put machine gun towers and mine the banks of the Connecticut River on the NH side first.
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Only if they put machine gun towers and mine the banks of the Connecticut River on the NH side first.
Means that Carl is going to have to start patrolling the line . . . all the way up to Lake Champlain!
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Means that Carl is going to have to start patrolling the line . . . all the way up to Lake Champlain!
Nope--your post is going to be on Hwy 22 around Petersburg to make sure flatlander reinforcements from NYC and NJ don't make it into VT.
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I think it's a wonderful idea for a realty TV program.
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I think it's a wonderful idea for a realty TV program.
Yeah.
"Escape From Progressive America" :rotf:
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I'd be all for it if it had one-way doors, and they could never leave it once they went in.
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I'd be all for it if it had one-way doors, and they could never leave it once they went in.
Like a roach motel
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Like a roach motel
The idea, and its' intended "occupants," would be similar . . . :fuelfire:
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The idea, and its' intended "occupants," would be similar . . . :fuelfire:
I believe the roaches would smell better.
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Maybe the DUmmies can take the advice of some "progressive" cities like Detroit. Liberalism has worked out just fine for them.
(http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/30Phil-470x352.jpg)
(http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/01BrushPark-470x316.jpg)
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Jan-14-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Well, being blackmailed by the top 1% doesn't work
either. Seems to me that those businesses who want to sell to us, should be able to accept laws that give them the privilege to sell in your state if they are out of state. Tariffs and out-of-state business licenses or even expecting them to incorporate in your state so that any income they make in your state is subject to corporate tax are a few of the things that come to mind to me. I mean if you can make the legislature cooperate here, it shouldn't be a huge problem. I can see a lot of sources of income that aren't tapped into because of the fear that they might go away. Remember they are just as dependent on doing business in your state as you need them. And if they aren't, good riddance.
Hmmmm.....Remember that commerce clause you liberals use like it's the town's two bit hooker? That effectively kills that legislation.