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Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on February 20, 2015, 08:37:19 AM

Title: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on February 20, 2015, 08:37:19 AM
Quote
mfcorey1 (5,351 posts)

Why Getting An Abortion Was 'One Of The Best Decisions' Of This Woman's Life
   
"I simply wasn't ready," says Renee Bracey Sherman when describing why she chose to have an abortion.

In a new video produced for Fusion's #NoFilter series, Sherman explains the thought process she went through before choosing to terminate a pregnancy -- and the opportunities making that choice has afforded her.

Sherman, a reproductive justice and storytelling activist,  :thatsright: :loser:  had an abortion when she was 19 years old. While the video shows how Sherman came to the decision to terminate her pregnancy, it also gives a broader look at her life and who she is as a person. Sherman says her “first and foremost identity" is a "cat lady," her parents raised her to see herself as an equal to her two brothers and she played the piano as a kid (even though she hated it).

The best part of this video -- besides that it shows she made the best decision for herself at the time -- is that it reveals so much about Sherman's personality, family and upbringing, showing that she's so much more than her choice to have an abortion. She is a full human being with likes, dislikes, funny stories and a family that loves her. Sherman's choice to have an abortion was just one of many decisions she's made in her lifetime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/17/abortion-story-no-filter_n_6700806.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026251793


"reproductive justice"

a.k.a. bullshit artist



"storytelling activist"

a.k.a. active bullshit artist



"identity"

The child has more identity than this skrag ever will.



"the best decision for herself"

Oh, we know it's all about you, sweetie. Or, at least you think it is.



"she's so much more than her choice to have an abortion"

To the father she was just a night's sweaty distraction.



"She is a full human being with likes, dislikes, funny stories and a family that loves her."

Proglodytes often like to accuse decent, civilized people of maintaining a I-got-mine-screw-you attitude towards other people but then we get to read about this vacuous, self-absorbed bimbo. She gets to indulge her appetites and dream her insignificant little dreams -- but God help the innocent child that gets in her way. She has all this support but won't share that support with the child. She wants her life but the child has no life.


If there be a God the unborn soul has been commended to His bosom. It has been spared a life under the nurture of this insipid, useless woman. The only soul in jeopardy is her own.

Should I care?
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Carl on February 20, 2015, 10:12:13 AM
It shows she is a self centered scrunt that that lives for the minute without any desire for responsibility or consideration of consequences.
In other words a liberal.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SVPete on February 20, 2015, 10:17:02 AM
An innocent human(s) being is killed by every abortion, regardless of the circumstance of the conception. So on that basis, I do care. In this woman's case, she could have given birth and given the child up for adoption. There are plenty of couples in the US who are eager to adopt. So, however unprepared and narcissistic this woman was at age 19/20, the child need not have been raised by her.

The HuffPo story, intentionally or otherwise, does reveal the sort of shallowness and self-centeredness of many/most women who have abortions. They want their pleasure and they don't want their pleasure to have consequences.

That said, I'm no angel, and I was/am redeemed by Jesus. This woman, for all her self-centeredness and hard-hearted defensiveness is in similar need, and may be redeemed; she's no less a "prize" than I was, and Jesus gave His life for her as well as for me.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Gina on February 20, 2015, 10:24:22 AM
Ok. I'm going to lay out something that has scarred my heart. 

When I was a teen I got pregnant.  My mom said it would break my dad's heart if he ever found out and she whisked me away for an abortion.  I was a teen and thought it was nothing.  Little did I know how bad it would affect me later in life.  I went through 8 years of infertility where I had miscarriage after miscarriage and I felt I deserved every bit of that.  I felt that God was telling me that since I didn't love his child when I was 17 what right did I deserve to be a mother now.  I only overcame my infertility when I just said "I trust you, Lord" and I literally felt pressure on my shoulder.  It was his hand.  If my mom wouldn't have advised me to get an abortion I would have a 24 yr old child now.  I think about that abortion all the time.  When my brother had his first kid my mom said "I'm finally going to be a grandmother".  I told her "You already were one, Mom, Remember?"  I don't know if she feels guilt for it.  We have never really talked about it.  But it's something that hangs around my neck daily and will until I die.  I have asked God for forgiveness and I'm sure he has given that to me.  I just don't know if I can ever forgive myself.

So when I see these people post that it was the best decision they made it only shows they are selfish.  A human being died so you could live your lifestyle.  It will affect you one day.  I promise that and if it never does....you were a lost soul to begin with.

I hope this doesn't make some of you hate me.  I do know that I would never do this to my daughters.  Abortion does ruin lives. Not just the baby but the would be mom. 

My dad still does not know to this day.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: ChuckJ on February 20, 2015, 10:34:52 AM
The unborn baby she put the contract hit on was also a full human being.

Let’s fictionalize a bit here…

Let’s say that the unborn baby, unbeknownst to the Sherman chick, somehow survived the murder. Taken in by family with true love and compassion, the baby grew up to be successful in the healthcare field. The now grown baby, who we’ll just call B, opens some sort of intensive care clinic. B both owns and runs the clinic. One day, after some sort of accident, the Sherman chick is brought into the clinic owned by B. Due to the accident, the Sherman chick can’t move for nine months and will have to occupy one of B’s beds in B’s clinic. Due to the accident, the Sherman chick can’t breathe on her own for nine months and will have to be hooked up to one of B’s respirators. Due to the accident, the Sherman chick can’t eat on her own for nine months and will have to be fed by B. In other words, for nine months the survival of the Sherman chick is completely B’s responsibility.

About 2 weeks in B decides that he or she just “simply wasn’t ready” to care for someone like the Sherman chick. Does that give B the right to hire someone to go into B’s room in which the Sherman chick is occupying and rip the Sherman chick to death?
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Carl on February 20, 2015, 10:37:52 AM
Gina,you just showed the difference between a decent soul that is the opposite of the its is all about me value of the left.
There is no changing the past only learning from it and trusting God for redemption and letting Him work through those things as a help to others.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: BlueStateSaint on February 20, 2015, 11:26:26 AM
Gina,you just showed the difference between a decent soul that is the opposite of the its is all about me value of the left.
There is no changing the past only learning from it and trusting God for redemption and letting Him work through those things as a help to others.

I'd echo Carl, and add this--we all sin.  Every one of us.  If Our Lord Jesus Christ Forgave us, and died on the Cross for our sins, who are we to deny that to another soul who asks us for it?  As Carl said, if we trust God for redemption, we can be used by Him to help others.

No judgement here, Gina.  :blowkiss:
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: dixierose on February 20, 2015, 12:22:04 PM
Ok. I'm going to lay out something that has scarred my heart. 

When I was a teen I got pregnant.  My mom said it would break my dad's heart if he ever found out and she whisked me away for an abortion.  I was a teen and thought it was nothing.  Little did I know how bad it would affect me later in life.  I went through 8 years of infertility where I had miscarriage after miscarriage and I felt I deserved every bit of that.  I felt that God was telling me that since I didn't love his child when I was 17 what right did I deserve to be a mother now.  I only overcame my infertility when I just said "I trust you, Lord" and I literally felt pressure on my shoulder.  It was his hand.  If my mom wouldn't have advised me to get an abortion I would have a 24 yr old child now.  I think about that abortion all the time.  When my brother had his first kid my mom said "I'm finally going to be a grandmother".  I told her "You already were one, Mom, Remember?"  I don't know if she feels guilt for it.  We have never really talked about it.  But it's something that hangs around my neck daily and will until I die.  I have asked God for forgiveness and I'm sure he has given that to me.  I just don't know if I can ever forgive myself.

So when I see these people post that it was the best decision they made it only shows they are selfish.  A human being died so you could live your lifestyle.  It will affect you one day.  I promise that and if it never does....you were a lost soul to begin with.

I hope this doesn't make some of you hate me.  I do know that I would never do this to my daughters.  Abortion does ruin lives. Not just the baby but the would be mom. 

My dad still does not know to this day.

I can sympathize with you because the same thing happened to me. My step-mom is the one who pressured me into a abortion. I also had two miscarriages before carrying my son full term. And I have also been forgiven.

I can't believe how some women can use abortion as a form of birth control....where is their conscious?

Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on February 20, 2015, 02:16:07 PM
Gina, ma'am,

Don't ever compare yourself to the mongrels at the DUmp.

If they had any better sense they would strive to be more like you.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SVPete on February 20, 2015, 04:00:06 PM
Concur with Carl, BSS and the SGT. I see plenty of room for myself in Paul's, "Such were some of you," list in 1 Corinthians 6 (and I'm sure he intentionally included himself). The important word in that context and this is "were". We're forgiven, and we've learned. A sadly large percentage of women who have had abortions suffer, and do not seek forgiveness, or. like the woman in the OP article, harden their hearts and even try to persuade other women to join them in their misery.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: ChuckJ on February 20, 2015, 04:13:42 PM
Gina, ma'am,

Don't ever compare yourself to the mongrels at the DUmp.

If they had any better sense they would strive to be more like you.

Yeah. What Snug said.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: obumazombie on February 20, 2015, 05:41:39 PM
Concur with Carl, BSS and the SGT. I see plenty of room for myself in Paul's, "Such were some of you," list in 1 Corinthians 6 (and I'm sure he intentionally included himself). The important word in that context and this is "were". We're forgiven, and we've learned. A sadly large percentage of women who have had abortions suffer, and do not seek forgiveness, or. like the woman in the OP article, harden their hearts and even try to persuade other women to join them in their misery.
Echo all.
And lest anyone consider themselves better, all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord.
They all hurt him and us equally.

Now back to...

"Reproductive Justice" aka bullshit artist (hat tip to Snuggs)...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2RYhNhBdw[/youtube]


NUTS...N-V-T-S...NUTS !
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Mary Ann on February 20, 2015, 06:05:05 PM
Gina, my heart goes out to you. I pray that you will find peace, and learn to forgive yourself.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Eupher on February 20, 2015, 06:54:13 PM
I've done crazy shit to the point that I shouldn't be walking, talking breathing.

I know that God has forgiven me that crazy shit. More to the point, he has taken the burden I put on myself too.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: jukin on February 20, 2015, 08:15:31 PM
I know the BSs will come but I think that up to a certain point it is a woman's choice. Europe has set that point at 20 weeks. Me I don't know what might be right. However, I do know that if you known that you are pregnant and haven't made up your mind within 16 weeks there is an issue.  Let's face it that some people not having kids is a good thing.  Those kids are going to be adopted because they will be kept. Those children will miserable and be nothing other than a great drain on overall humanity. Perhaps they will cause great pain to decent and civilized people. Realistically this is a hard truth but truth.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: BlueStateSaint on February 20, 2015, 08:27:38 PM
I know the BSs will come but I think that up to a certain point it is a woman's choice. Europe has set that point at 20 weeks. Me I don't know what might be right. However, I do know that if you known that you are pregnant and haven't made up your mind within 16 weeks there is an issue.  Let's face it that some people not having kids is a good thing.  Those kids are going to be adopted because they will be kept. Those children will miserable and be nothing other than a great drain on overall humanity. Perhaps they will cause great pain to decent and civilized people. Realistically this is a hard truth but truth.

I'm not going to BS you, just suggest this:  Who died and left you God, to determine just who is "be nothing other than a great drain on overall humanity?"

You might want to think about that one for a while.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: thundley4 on February 20, 2015, 08:39:32 PM
I'm not going to BS you, just suggest this:  Who died and left you God, to determine just who is "be nothing other than a great drain on overall humanity?"

You might want to think about that one for a while.

Abortion may have already killed the people who God ordained to cure cancer, AIDS and innumerable other disease.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: MrsSmith on February 20, 2015, 08:51:14 PM
I know the BSs will come but I think that up to a certain point it is a woman's choice. Europe has set that point at 20 weeks. Me I don't know what might be right. However, I do know that if you known that you are pregnant and haven't made up your mind within 16 weeks there is an issue.  Let's face it that some people not having kids is a good thing.  Those kids are going to be adopted because they will be kept. Those children will miserable and be nothing other than a great drain on overall humanity. Perhaps they will cause great pain to decent and civilized people. Realistically this is a hard truth but truth.
My first kid was due on my 19th birthday.  EVERYONE told me to abort, my friends, my parents.  No one pushed it, but everyone thought I was nuts to refuse.  I was in my first semester of college and "it would ruin my life."

That kid is now 37.  He served in the Army.  He used his GI Bill to get a Bachelor's degree.  He is a civilian employee of the Army now.  He has a beautiful 9 year old daughter who would not exist if I had listened to all those people that knew better than me.  He has never been a drain on humanity.  Realistically, the hard truth is that no human knows the future.  No human knows who should live and who should die.  If God doesn't want someone to live, He will end that life.  It is NOT a human responsibility.

When a human has taken that responsibility, God will forgive if we repent...just as with any sin. He can take all our sin and turn it to His purpose.  But to say we can ever out-know Him is so arrogant.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: I_B_Perky on February 20, 2015, 08:51:46 PM
I know the BSs will come but I think that up to a certain point it is a woman's choice. Europe has set that point at 20 weeks. Me I don't know what might be right. However, I do know that if you known that you are pregnant and haven't made up your mind within 16 weeks there is an issue.  Let's face it that some people not having kids is a good thing.  Those kids are going to be adopted because they will be kept. Those children will miserable and be nothing other than a great drain on overall humanity. Perhaps they will cause great pain to decent and civilized people. Realistically this is a hard truth but truth.

I'll be honest with you jukin... the abortion issue for me is just not that important. I pretty much do not care one way or the other and never have. There are way more important issues facing this country right now than any social issue in my opinion.  It's like this: When your house is on fire, you do not worry about your 13 yr old daughter being pregnant. You get everyone out of the house and then worry about putting the fire out. Then rebuilding.

I gave you an H5 for your truthfulness. Along with Gina and Dixierose for the simple reason is that tough choices are tough to make.  I guarantee all of you that everyone on this little corner of the internet has made a tough choice or two and come to regret it later. I've made many. With that comes wisdom.  :cheersmate:

Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Carl on February 20, 2015, 09:01:39 PM
I know the BSs will come but I think that up to a certain point it is a woman's choice. Europe has set that point at 20 weeks. Me I don't know what might be right. However, I do know that if you known that you are pregnant and haven't made up your mind within 16 weeks there is an issue.  Let's face it that some people not having kids is a good thing.  Those kids are going to be adopted because they will be kept. Those children will miserable and be nothing other than a great drain on overall humanity. Perhaps they will cause great pain to decent and civilized people. Realistically this is a hard truth but truth.

No BS from me either,it is a complex issue in many ways as most conservatives accept abortion as a medical procedure if the mothers physical life is in danger,others allowing in the case of rape including incestuous.

I am not sure that exact discussion will ever be totally resolved as to the morality of it and laws are instituted by the general populous moral opinion.

Whether one believes that abortion is always wrong,with no exceptions or that there are rare but legitimate incidents where it is indeed the moral thing to do that still does not transcend to the level of it being an easy and thoughtless option to facilitate selfish behavior without being conscious of the reality it is.

If we move to the latter as a people,then there really is almost no stopping point where innocent life can somehow be regarded and rendered valueless and I don`t think for a moment anything about your post is in disagreement with that or suggesting such.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: catsmtrods on February 21, 2015, 01:52:54 AM
Gina, Me and my wife of 40 years have been down the same road. We regret it every day and wonder what would have been? We pray for Gods forgiveness and feel your pain. I have faith and feel I have been forgiven but still it haunts me. God love's you girl cause you have shown your reserve! 
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Movie buff- The Sequel on February 21, 2015, 06:30:22 AM
Gina, I must agree that you won't have to worry about us judging you for your actions. You've clearly sought out God's forgiveness, and been granted it by Him, and are a valued member of this forum. You're nothing like the disgusting, selfish, thoughtless woman the DUmmies are singing the praises of with their original thread.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: FlaGator on February 21, 2015, 11:31:32 AM
Actually they tip their hand as they make every effort to dehumanize a fetus. That they use language to describe the fetus in non-human terms, "clump of cells", "a virus", "a parasite", "invading foreign body", etc shows that they understand that aborting a human or potential human is wrong and is in fact murder. If they truly felt abortion was okay the why make the effort. Just say "I'm putting down my unborn child" or "I am killing my baby" and be done with it. They don't say these things because they know they are doing something that is an abomination.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: BlueStateSaint on February 21, 2015, 12:47:56 PM
Gina, Me and my wife of 40 years have been down the same road. We regret it every day and wonder what would have been? We pray for Gods forgiveness and feel your pain. I have faith and feel I have been forgiven but still it haunts me. God love's you girl cause you have shown your reserve!

I feel the same way about you, cats.  Seek Him in all your endeavors, as difficult as it may be (and is daily for me).  If you ask Him for His Forgiveness, He will surely forgive you two.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SVPete on February 21, 2015, 12:54:25 PM
Actually they tip their hand as they make every effort to dehumanize a fetus. That they use language to describe the fetus in non-human terms, "clump of cells", "a virus", "a parasite", "invading foreign body", etc shows that they understand that aborting a human or potential human is wrong and is in fact murder. If they truly felt abortion was okay the why make the effort. Just say "I'm putting down my unborn child" or "I am killing my baby" and be done with it. They don't say these things because they know they are doing something that is an abomination.

The simple truth is that a human being is made at fertilization, when the genetic material from the egg and sperm come together to form a complete set of human chromosomes.

It's a living human being. It is uniquely human. It is unique from either the male or the female parent, though made using genetic material from both.

"Embryo" and "fetus" are stages of human development, not non-human entities. Just as infant, toddler, and adult are stages of human development.

As emotive as rape and incest are in the context of the discussion of abortion, the baby is innocent of those crimes, and should not be punished for those crimes by being killed. As horrible as being raped or being the victim of incest are, those crimes should noit be compounded by the far worse killing of an innocent and helpless human being.

Would I apply this thinking if I had a daughter who was raped or got pregnant outside of marriage? I have two unmarried daughters of childbearing years. I would not change my thinking were either to happen, and their thinking is like mine (and they are not intellectual sock-puppets or Stepford Daughters!).
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: freedumb2003b on February 21, 2015, 01:19:36 PM
Ok. I'm going to lay out something that has scarred my heart. 

When I was a teen I got pregnant.  My mom said it would break my dad's heart if he ever found out and she whisked me away for an abortion.  I was a teen and thought it was nothing.  Little did I know how bad it would affect me later in life.  I went through 8 years of infertility where I had miscarriage after miscarriage and I felt I deserved every bit of that.  I felt that God was telling me that since I didn't love his child when I was 17 what right did I deserve to be a mother now.  I only overcame my infertility when I just said "I trust you, Lord" and I literally felt pressure on my shoulder.  It was his hand.  If my mom wouldn't have advised me to get an abortion I would have a 24 yr old child now.  I think about that abortion all the time.  When my brother had his first kid my mom said "I'm finally going to be a grandmother".  I told her "You already were one, Mom, Remember?"  I don't know if she feels guilt for it.  We have never really talked about it.  But it's something that hangs around my neck daily and will until I die.  I have asked God for forgiveness and I'm sure he has given that to me.  I just don't know if I can ever forgive myself.

So when I see these people post that it was the best decision they made it only shows they are selfish.  A human being died so you could live your lifestyle.  It will affect you one day.  I promise that and if it never does....you were a lost soul to begin with.

I hope this doesn't make some of you hate me.  I do know that I would never do this to my daughters.  Abortion does ruin lives. Not just the baby but the would be mom. 

My dad still does not know to this day.

Why in the world would anyone hate you for this very significant sharing of an important part of your life with us?

It is exactly on point and poignant.  I hope others can learn from it -- sadly, the DUmpmonkey who called us out either won't read it or won't understand it.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SVPete on February 21, 2015, 01:51:09 PM
Why in the world would anyone hate you for this very significant sharing of an important part of your life with us?

It is exactly on point and poignant.  I hope others can learn from it -- sadly, the DUmpmonkey who called us out either won't read it or won't understand it.

And will probably think us hypocrites for: a.) having several members having similar life histories; b.) not condemning Gina for having had an abortion.

Because we don't obligingly fit into their stereotypes of what conservatives and Pro-Life people "should" be - in their imaginings - they believe we are hypocrites and phonies.

Because of my commute and work hours, there were several hours between my first seeing Gina's post and being able to post my response. NONE of fellow Cavers' responses before mine (or after, for that matter) surprised or disappointed me. Frankly, if Gina had 12 posts rather than >12,000, I don't think the responses would be much different.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: thundley4 on February 21, 2015, 03:17:46 PM
As emotive as rape and incest are in the context of the discussion of abortion, the baby is innocent of those crimes, and should not be punished for those crimes by being killed. As horrible as being raped or being the victim of incest are, those crimes should noit be compounded by the far worse killing of an innocent and helpless human being.


I used to believe in the "rape exception" and an exception being made for the life and physical well being of the mother.  At some point, I reached the same conclusion that a child of rape, is no less a miracle and an innocent than any other baby.

As for when the life of the mother is put at risk by carrying the child to full term, that is entirely up to the mother.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: HawkHogan on February 21, 2015, 08:48:31 PM
I used to believe in the "rape exception" and an exception being made for the life and physical well being of the mother.  At some point, I reached the same conclusion that a child of rape, is no less a miracle and an innocent than any other baby.

As for when the life of the mother is put at risk by carrying the child to full term, that is entirely up to the mother.

I saw a Pro-Life advocate who was the result of a rape pregnancy.  The pregnancy occurred before Roe V. Wade, so her mother was unable to obtain an abortion in her state, even though she wanted one. 

She definitely helped sculpt my perspective on the issue.

Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: FlaGator on February 21, 2015, 09:43:54 PM
And will probably think us hypocrites for: a.) having several members having similar life histories; b.) not condemning Gina for having had an abortion.

Because we don't obligingly fit into their stereotypes of what conservatives and Pro-Life people "should" be - in their imaginings - they believe we are hypocrites and phonies.

Because of my commute and work hours, there were several hours between my first seeing Gina's post and being able to post my response. NONE of fellow Cavers' responses before mine (or after, for that matter) surprised or disappointed me. Frankly, if Gina had 12 posts rather than >12,000, I don't think the responses would be much different.

I am unable to condemn Gina or anyone who has made that choice. I haven't walked in their shoes and have no understanding of the pressure and other factors that go in to making the decision. Also I take to heart Jesus' words: "He who is without sin cast the first stone."
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Eupher on February 22, 2015, 01:17:29 PM
I am unable to condemn Gina or anyone who has made that choice. I haven't walked in their shoes and have no understanding of the pressure and other factors that go in to making the decision. Also I take to heart Jesus' words: "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Here, here. I have often thought of being in that position and I simply could not wrap my head around it. I have often said that a person who willingly chooses to abort a pregnancy cannot be unaffected by such a decision;  I just would not want to have to make that decision, believing that there are alternatives.

But there may not be alternatives. And that's the jarring part of it.

In no way could I castigate someone who made that decision. Even a person who makes light of making that decision, I can't help but think that their public comments are smoke screens for what they're really feeling. They have to be hurting inside, else they simply have no soul -- and I think those who have no soul are very few and far between.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Gina on February 23, 2015, 09:20:04 AM
Here, here. I have often thought of being in that position and I simply could not wrap my head around it. I have often said that a person who willingly chooses to abort a pregnancy cannot be unaffected by such a decision;  I just would not want to have to make that decision, believing that there are alternatives.

That's why I decided to open myself up here with my story. The left touts abortion as a womans choice and it's just a simple medical procedure but it's so much more than that.  With as much as the left says they want to help mental illness and women they should really be timid with abortion.  Abortion does affect the psyche of a woman.  This is a decision that they will live with the rest of their life.  I thought it wouldn't affect me, I was a teen and didn't have a political view yet.  You have to be affected if you really sit down and think about it.  You just rejected a life that your body created.  A life.  When you get older in life and decide to have children do you not think that you are a POS to say this child was more deserviing of life than the other one?  I did. 

All my miscarriages and losses really hit me hard.  I had 4 ectopic pregnancies and there would be a beating heart and I would have to purposely take a shot (methotrexate) to end that beating heart.  My medical file has "habitual aborter" on it.  That hurt my feelings so bad even though it's just a medical term.  I relived that crap every time.  Anyway, I just want the left to know women are hurt by abortion and I speak from personal experience.  Not only me but there are so many blogs and stories out there how women are so guiltridden by abortion.   Be a champion for them. Women should be given counseling before the procedure and after.  I do also think ultrasounds before the abortion could really help a woman see what is inside her.  She may think it's a clump of cells but when she actually sees the arms and legs wiggling it might just click that this is a life.  A life she made.  A mom is a protector.

And thank you all. I knew y'all would understand.  :-*
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SVPete on February 23, 2015, 10:10:29 AM
I'm not going to Quote Gina's post - for visual effect, not a problem with her post - but this is responsive to her post immediately above.

The term "habitual aborter" is bizarre to me. The ordinary meaning of "habitual" entails choices. There is no choice in miscarriages. And the "choice" in an ectopic pregnancy for the woman is between living or dying; the baby will not survive in either case.

Pro-Abortionists' denial that having an abortion has negative effects for many/most women seems to be peculiar to the US, from what I've read. EuroLand government "health" "care" agencies and medical communities apparently assume such effects and count/accept them as part of the money and social cost of abortions.

In the US, where Pro-Life vs. Pro-Abortion is a live issue, Pro-Abortion people fear the consequences of acknowledging what EuroLanders consider obviously true. The sad side of that intellectual dishonesty - trying to represent abortion as simple and safe - is that there are millions of women in the US living with a horrible need, and much of the medical community in the US is doing a "Sergeant Schultz": "I see nussing!" The (relatively) few people who do offer counseling and help, Pro-Life crisis pregnancy centers, are demonized by Pro-Abortion people and many municipal, county, and state governments are trying to regulate crisis pregnancy centers out of "business".
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: Gina on February 23, 2015, 12:29:36 PM
The term "habitual aborter" is bizarre to me. The ordinary meaning of "habitual" entails choices. There is no choice in miscarriages. And the "choice" in an ectopic pregnancy for the woman is between living or dying; the baby will not survive in either case.


http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Habitual+aborter

Quote
habitual abortion spontaneous abortion in three or more consecutive pregnancies before the 20th week of gestation.

Couldn't tell if you thought I might be doing a bouncy but it's a real term, I promise.   :-)
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: thundley4 on February 23, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Habitual+aborter

Couldn't tell if you thought I might be doing a bouncy but it's a real term, I promise.   :-)

I think he just mean that the fact the medical community uses the term "habitual" when referring to something that happens through no fault of your own is bizarre.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: SVPete on February 23, 2015, 04:14:02 PM
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Habitual+aborter

Couldn't tell if you thought I might be doing a bouncy but it's a real term, I promise.   :-)

I didn't doubt it was, and didn't think you were.

Sometimes professions develop sub-dialects all their own, and I guessed this is a case. I also was guessing that one aspect that upset you about the term was the word "habitual", given its ordinary meaning. From your POV, I would imagine, the suggestion of multiple choices in regard to events you'd gladly have forgone would be very hurtful.

I thoroughly respect your frankness and openness in this part of this discussion. I cannot imagine it being easy for you.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: freedumb2003b on February 23, 2015, 04:48:36 PM
That's why I decided to open myself up here with my story. The left touts abortion as a womans choice and it's just a simple medical procedure but it's so much more than that.  With as much as the left says they want to help mental illness and women they should really be timid with abortion.  Abortion does affect the psyche of a woman.  This is a decision that they will live with the rest of their life.  I thought it wouldn't affect me, I was a teen and didn't have a political view yet.  You have to be affected if you really sit down and think about it.  You just rejected a life that your body created.  A life.  When you get older in life and decide to have children do you not think that you are a POS to say this child was more deserviing of life than the other one?  I did. 

All my miscarriages and losses really hit me hard.  I had 4 ectopic pregnancies and there would be a beating heart and I would have to purposely take a shot (methotrexate) to end that beating heart.  My medical file has "habitual aborter" on it.  That hurt my feelings so bad even though it's just a medical term.  I relived that crap every time.  Anyway, I just want the left to know women are hurt by abortion and I speak from personal experience.  Not only me but there are so many blogs and stories out there how women are so guiltridden by abortion.   Be a champion for them. Women should be given counseling before the procedure and after.  I do also think ultrasounds before the abortion could really help a woman see what is inside her.  She may think it's a clump of cells but when she actually sees the arms and legs wiggling it might just click that this is a life.  A life she made.  A mom is a protector.

And thank you all. I knew y'all would understand.  :-*

We love you dear.  It is as simple as that. *hug*
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: J P Sousa on February 23, 2015, 11:00:23 PM
Quote
So when I see these people post that it was the best decision they made it only shows they are selfish.  A human being died so you could live your lifestyle. 
Very, Very true.

Quote
I hope this doesn't make some of you hate me.     
That would be impossible Gina.

I can't imagine what you went through.
Title: Re: Perhaps my fellow cavers who are anti-abortion christians can answer something
Post by: obumazombie on February 24, 2015, 10:39:52 AM
No way could I ever hate Gina.
Gina is just so easy to love.
The libs are the ones who make themselves easy to hate.