Even Robs real life "friends" think he is a doofus (warning,long)

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025977587

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:51 PM

Star Member Atman (28,243 posts)

Wow. I'm being hammered by my Southern friends about Vermont's health care decision.
I don't even live in Vermont. Several of my Southern GOP friends (almost all of them in Florida) are singling me out, as if I have something to do with Vermont (I live in Connecticut), to say "THERE! That will show you! Single payer never works!" It's amazing. A state with fewer than a million people, many of them part-time students or off-the-grid farmers, couldn't make the math work. SHOCKER! Yet, somehow, that means it can't work for a nation of 320,000,000 people, and somehow this guy from Connecticut has something to do with it.

Jeezuz. I guess they have to dance around any victory fire than can find.

http://www.wcax.com/story/27661831/reactions-to-shumlins-decision-to-shelve-single-payer

You are a dunce,why does it surprise you people laugh at you?

What is better are the subthreads.

Response to Atman (Original post)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:02 PM

NoJusticeNoPeace (735 posts)
2. Dont know the details of why it didnt work in Vermont, but it wont work anywhere as long

as we allow the absurd profits for hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and many physicians, specialists especially.

Personally, I think to get a medical license as a physician in America you should have to agree to take on a certain number of medicare patients, medicaid patients, etc.

I think if we went to universal healthcare you could require ALL physicians participate and ALL hospitals and you could easily legislate reasonable rules around pharmaceuticals.



We have such an absurd idea of what capitalism should be, it is so harmful to so many.

**** off Mao.

Response to NoJusticeNoPeace (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:38 PM

helpmetohelpyou (421 posts)
23. This is what it would have taken in Vermont for it to work in payroll taxes , just like Canada

$1 to $43,953 =​15 per cent
$43,954 to $87,907= ​22 per cent
​$87,908 to $136,270 =​26 per cent
$136,271 and up ​ =29 per cent

It isn`t free?

Response to helpmetohelpyou (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:29 PM

SickOfTheOnePct (2,311 posts)
33. At that cost

I wouldn't want it either.

Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:41 PM

helpmetohelpyou (421 posts)
35. No kidding , no one did

Everyone would pay it . you make $20,000 gross
You pay $3000.00 in payroll tax


That's how other countries are able to do it. It's normal in other countries to pay that kind of tax.

We are not use to it.

Response to adirondacker (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:57 PM

helpmetohelpyou (421 posts)
39. The thing is you can't tax them so highly on other things

Property tax is a big issue in Vermont and pretty much in every New England state

How do you tell a person who owns a home making $35,000 or $40,000 a year gross

Your pay roll tax is going up 11% to 15% and by the way you also just had
your property tax increase 20% also?

This happened in Vermont just this year

Response to helpmetohelpyou (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:11 AM

Star Member adirondacker (2,786 posts)
42. It boils down to increasing progressive taxes and reducing regressive ones. Upstate NY had a wicked

increase in property taxes in the last several years (my own doubled) and sales tax has been on a steady rise nearing 10% in some counties. Meanwhile, private contractors are raking in billions of taxpayer dollars on half assed construction projects around the state.
Everything is out of wack in this state and most of the country and is why I agree with Bernie that we NEED a Revolution.

New York has been controlled by libs for decades idiot.

Response to adirondacker (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:17 AM

helpmetohelpyou (421 posts)
43. My property tax went up 14% and my governor just allowed CL&P a rate increase of 26% in 2015

It's getting stupid

You should feel patriotic.

Response to helpmetohelpyou (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:44 AM

Star Member adirondacker (2,786 posts)
50. We have Nationl Grid (London Multinational) raping us in NY. Last years rates shot up

nearly double. Even the right wing rednecks were upset about crony capitalism!

Sorry I was confused about your location.

Who was it that said energy costs would necessarily skyrocket under his policies?

Response to helpmetohelpyou (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:00 AM

branford (1,625 posts)
40. It's not just income taxes.

Many of the countries with universal healthcare also have an extreme high VAT (sales tax) upwards of 19+% and/or higher corporate taxes.

You have to convince Americans, the majority of whom already have excellent care, to pay significantly more in taxes and fees, and for many, receive fewer choices and versatility in care and longer wait times. For it to occur nationally, you also have to eliminate an entire industry that employs many thousands of workers and pay significant taxes.

Europe and Canada and simply not the USA. Any universal care in the USA must be phased in very slowly with limited disruption. The more stark the demanded change, the greater the inevitable push-back. Do not forget that the limited PPACA is still unpopular, cost Democrats control of Congress, and still might be gutted in the courts.

No shit.

Response to branford (Reply #40)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:05 AM

helpmetohelpyou (421 posts)
41. Oh I know but they grew up being taxed like that so to them it seems normal.

That's why Vermont was the wrong state to pick as a model to try this in my opinion .

It's expensive to live there , long winters , high heating costs , high energy prices, no industry other than tourism .

Very low paying jobs compared to the rest of New England

I wonder why?

Response to helpmetohelpyou (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:28 AM

branford (1,625 posts)
47. We definitely agree.

The attention was on Vermont because they appeared willing and believed themselves able to implement single payer, were very public with their pronouncements, and given their ultra-progressive politics unlike other areas of the country, expectations were unreasonably high.

I would also note that if taxes and fees were punitively raised, many businesses and citizens would simply leave Vermont. Moving to states like Connecticut, Massachusetts or New Hampshire would be quick and easy, and they would be most welcome. Vermonters with the greatest wealth are generally also the most mobile.

No shit X2

Response to branford (Reply #40)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:23 AM

helpmetohelpyou (421 posts)
44. And to your point here

"You have to convince Americans, the majority of whom already have excellent care, to pay significantly more in taxes"


Tell me how you convince state and federal workers who have one of the best
health care insurances that they have to give it up?

Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:01 PM

Star Member Hoyt (17,619 posts)
10. I hear what you are saying, but Medicare is really not a pure single player anymore.

Last edited Fri Dec 19, 2014, 01:11 AM - Edit history (1)
30% of beneficiaries are in Medicare Advantage plans which are essentially commercial plans under some broad federal guidelines. Most of the other beneficiaries have a supplemental insurer that covers the hefty coinsurance and lack of an out-of-pocket Max.

Insurance companies handle claims payment, beneficiary issues, utilization issues, provider enrollment, etc. Government would have to invest a ton to take that over at this point.

As Vermont found, it sounds simple, but it ain't. People aren't even smart enough to realize they might be better off with a hefty tax increase, but no premium payments..

I'm no longer confident we'll wise up in time to handle issues like health care.

Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:36 PM

helpmetohelpyou (421 posts)
34. It's hard to tell a person who makes $35,000 gross in Vermont your payroll tax

from now on will be $5250.00
Plus Vermont just had a major property tax increase on homes due to schools asking for more money.

No joke , some peoples house property taxes were increased by 20% to 30%

That a huge increase for a person who owns a typical home in Vermont making $30,000 to 35,000 a year

They are being taxed to death plus the cost of electricity is going up again in 2015


The people who are being hurt are the middle class here , not the rich who can afford paying
all these tax increases .

There comes a point that even progressives say I can't afford these taxes and still live in Vermont

In short you all scream for it because you want and think that for you it will be FREEEEEEE!
Idiotic parasites.

[franksolich]

Atman (28,243 posts)    Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:02 PM

14. Most of them live in Florida, so, uh...yeah.

Sorry Florida DUers. But you know what I'm talking about.

Atman (28,243 posts)    Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:01 PM

19. I'm from Florida.

I don't live there anymore, but I grew up there. It used to be a pretty progressive place, at least where I lived on the Space Coast. Lots of scientists and thinking people. Now they all say Obama killed the space program (although Bush did). And every other billboard is for Jesus or anti-abortion groups (and Ron Jon). Now everyone seems to be a right-winger. I know this is a generalization, but remember, I grew up there. I lived among them...they've changed. The entire state has changed. I'm not sure why, but even my old dope-smoking friends are all Jesus and Fox "News."
 
Maybe you're not, I'm certainly not claiming everyone is. I'm just saying that on my frequent trips home the place seems to get crazier and crazier. Re-electing Rick Scott didn't help change that perception.

[franksolich]

Remember that for Atman, a "right-winger" is anyone to the right of Ho Chi Minh, and a "Jesus freak" is anyone who says grace over the Thanksgiving turkey and says "Merry Christmas" a few times a year.

The guy's so askew, awry, tilted in his understanding of political ideology it's a wonder he can stand up straight.

[USA4ME]

Atman

19. I'm from Florida.

I don't live there anymore, but I grew up there. It used to be a pretty progressive place, at least where I lived on the Space Coast. Lots of scientists and thinking people.

Pedro couldn't tell the truth if he tried.

Pedro, you think you're the only one who grew up in Florida. I knew people who worked for NASA, too, and they weren't a bunch of wild-eye progressive nutballs like you. Most were salt-of-the-earth average family people who just happened to work in a field of doing extraordinary things. They went to church. They weren't pro-abortion or in favor of homo rights. They weren't anti-capitalists. Many were WW2 vets. They were in every way an average conservative blue-collar community. And if your "dope smoking buddies" are RWers now, it's because (unlike you) they grew up. Children do childish things, and people who are of age to be adults who continue to do childish things, like you and your fellow primitives, are properly viewed as children.

Poor Pedro.

.

[obumazombie]

I didn't vote for Atman for DOTY.
But now I'm thinking I should have.

[Ralph Wiggum]

The part of the story I have a hard time believing is that Atman/TexasToast has any friends.

[Tess Anderson]

Yes, Robb, if it can't work on a small-scale with a homogeneous population, it DOES mean it won't work when the population is multiplied by 100. 
i

Star Member Skittles (97,112 posts)

60. you have some very stupid friends

are they against single payer for our military too?

  Well, Susan, you're never going to convince every doctor and nurse in the country to go to work at some VA hospital. It's not as if that system is something to brag about. Gruber was right about you.

[GOBUCKS]

It's good to see that DUmmy Rob's still with us.

Now that voting has concluded for the year, you can expect some DUmmies to shut down.

[Skul]

Pedro's misery and mental anguish brings great joy to my heart.
I wish him a second helping.