primitives discuss meatloaf, apple pie

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/115748124

Oh my.

Big Bertha, who we haven't seen for a while.

By the way, there hasn't been a "what's for supper?" thread in the cooking and baking forum since Monday.....

Bertha Venation (21,113 posts)   Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:24 PM

I'm 51 and I just made my first meatloaf.

It came out dry.  But I followed the recipe very closely. Ground beef and pork, cracker crumbs, an egg, salt and pepper, ketchup, Worcestershire, onion, and parsley. I cooked it at the right temp (350F) for the correct time (an hour and ten minutes).
 
Why was it dry? How do I fix it?

NYC_SKP (63,182 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:27 PM

1. Not an expert, but I would let it brown and then cover with foil.

I like the crispy crust, but think about what an oven does: it heats things up and dries them out, no way around it.
 
So I would let it go for a while to sear the top and then cover it with foil.

I'm curious to see what others say, I'm a total newbie.

Yesterday I baked my first two pies, ever, one from total scratch, dough and everything!

^^^Skippy.

And next, the husband-hating primitive, even though he's been dead for a long time now:

elleng (51,558 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:31 PM

3. How'd the pies go, SKP,

you BRAVEheart!

NYC_SKP (63,182 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:36 PM

4. I followed all the tips except one, leaving the dough in the fridge overnight.

I almost made another batch but decided to wait til we've tried the first two, for filling etc.
 
The dough just wasn't as consolidated as it could have been so was fragile and hard to handle, but I think it will taste pretty good.
 
The second pie used store dough in rolls and canned peaches, so I have a Granny Smith apple from scratch and a peach pie quickie, for comparison.
 
Happy day, elleng!

Gobble Gobble!!!

elleng (51,558 posts)   Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:45 PM

6. Happy Day to you too, Turkey!

Used to make pies, both with and without my mother, loaded with fresh fruit, some berries from garden, but never crust from scratch. Going to daughter's 'new' in-laws tomorrow, offered but not bringing anything. Hope I don't have to pick up pies for myself for Friday from darn grocery store!!!

elleng (51,558 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:29 PM

2. Here's James Beard's recipe,

which I used to use:

2 lbs. ground beef
1 lb. ground pork
2 garlic cloves, finely chopped
1 fairly lg. onion, finely chopped
1 tsp. salt
1 tsp. freshly ground black pepper
1 crumbled bay leaf
1/2 tsp. crumbled thyme leaves
1 tsp. freshly chopped green pepper
1/2 c. dry bread crumbs
2 eggs
Bacon or salt pork

Mix all ingredients, except bacon, thoroughly blended. Form into a long loaf or cake and press firmly. Arrange enough slices of bacon or salt pork on the bottom of a baking pan to hold the meat loaf. Brush the loaf with butter and cross with 2 to 4 additional slices of bacon. Bake at 325 degrees, basting occasionally, for 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 hours, or until meat loaf is cooked through. Let stand for 10 to 15 minutes before serving.

HOPE things work out, BV!

Leith (340 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:45 PM

5. Just a Guess

The meat you used had a low fat content. It's good to limit fat in red meat, but more juiciness comes from more fat.

Suich (9,775 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 10:45 PM

7. It might have something to do with the grade of ground beef you used.

The most expensive has only 10% fat (I think), then the next has 20% fat and the 3rd, 30% fat.
 
I used to buy the most expensive, thinking it was the "best," but I've since learned there's a lot of flavor (and more "liquid") in the higher fat content ground beef.*
 
Just my 2 cents!

Happy Thanksgiving!

*there's a lot more grease in it too.

Grease is not good.

PADemD (3,054 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 11:09 PM

10. My recipe

I use 1 pound of ground beef, 2 extra large eggs, 1 chopped onion, and mix with just enough Italian flavored bread crumbs so that the meat can be molded into a loaf. Cover and bake at 350 for 45 minutes.
 
Unless your meatloaf was larger, 70 minutes sounds too long.

My Mom used to make smaller meatloaves (about the size of 3-4 large meatballs) in a large covered casserole dish and bake with a home-made barbecue sauce. When there was just a little ketchup left in the jar, she added some water, mustard, brown sugar, and Worcestershire sauce. I found I could get the same flavor by mixing ketchup, Masterpiece BBQ sauce, and water.

Freddie (2,209 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 11:15 PM

11. Yes to the foil suggestion

The sight of undercooked ground beef makes my stomach turn* so I always "burned" (per DH) meatloaf until I started using foil. Follow your favorite recipe, cook for the first hour in a loaf pan tightly covered with foil. Drain fat, then bake another 15-20 minutes uncovered to brown or bake on a glaze or catsup. Oven temp 350. Gets nice and "done" but still moist. DH and our son actually ask for meatloaf now.

*raw beef convulses this stomach too.

Retrograde (3,810 posts)    Wed Nov 26, 2014, 11:57 PM

12. I go by feel, but

just reading your post, I can't see what went wrong - except low fat content in the ground meats. My own method is to mix whatever meats are on sale (usually a blend of beef/pork/lamb/veal, although the proportions vary) with an egg, a mince of onion/pepper/carrot, an egg - then have my sous-chef (aka Mr. Retrograde) add breadcrumbs gradually while I knead the mixture. I go for a texture that's still highly moist, but can be molded by hand into a loaf (yes, it's a messy business).
 
So what can you do now? The last time I made entirely too much meatloaf, I took the tail end, crumbled it into a tomato sauce, and made sort of a mock Bolognese sauce for pasta. I've had better, but I had wasting meat.

LawDeeDah (1,063 posts)    Thu Nov 27, 2014, 12:22 AM

13. What I do to make it moister is grate some onion in it.

Ms. Hindenburg:

Warpy (80,106 posts)    Thu Nov 27, 2014, 01:08 AM

14. I found out the secret to meatloaf and meatballs was mixing the stuff with one of these

after which a photograph of some implement

Made for easy dough mixing, it does a great job of keeping meatloaf and meatballs light and juicy.
 
Available here, where I ganked the image: http://breadtopia.com/store/danish-dough-whisk/

Hmmm.

The thought of the defrocked warped primitive "ganking" something widens the eyes, churns the stomach, revolts the sensibilities.

JayhawkSD (1,558 posts)    Thu Nov 27, 2014, 01:12 AM

15. I never wrap meatloaf in foil to cook it.

1-1/2 # ground beef (85% lean works best)
1 cup fine bread crumbs
1-1/4 cups milk
1 egg, beaten
½ cup onion, chopped
½ cup celery, chopped
1-1/4 tsp salt
2-3 cloves garlic, crushed
1 tsp Oregano
2 tbsp Barbeque sauce

Just mix everything well and bake at 350 for 1-1/2 hours.

Notice the milk, and I agree with the comments about fat content. 15% is minimum and 20% is better.

NJCher (17,318 posts)    Thu Nov 27, 2014, 08:58 AM

16. that's what I was going to say, too

The bread crumbs need to be mixed with milk beforehand. That's what makes for a moist meatloaf (plus the fat content).

[GOBUCKS]

NJCher is the go-to DUmmy for cooking advice.

I think the photo of her puke stew has been featured here more times than anything except maybe Pitt's Midnight Cowboy costume and poor addled grasswipe Judy Smith's strawberry abortion pie.

[diesel driver]

What backasswards DUmbass makes a meatloaf for Thanksgiving?   

You make the meatloaf WITH THE LEFTOVERS FROM THE TURKEY!!!!

Easier yet, grab some noodles, add leftover turkey, water, some peas, carrots, etc., and make some turkey noodle soup. 

Cooking isn't that hard, DUmmies.  Grab a pot or pan, put in your "food", add a little water, and apply heat.  Stir occasionally, season to taste, and serve.  Now, wasn't that easy?

[Big Dog]

DUmmies screw up meatloaf.

No surprise there.

Bertha Venation

I'm 51 and I just made my first meatloaf.

It came out dry.

Dryness is a common problem among post-menopausal lesbians and their meatloaves. They both lack juiciness.

NYC_SKP

1. Not an expert

Is anyone truly an expert in meatloaf, Skippy?

That is like being an expert in making toast.

Retrograde

12. I go by feel

Feeling your meatloaf. That sounds like the way fizzy spends her Saturday nights, when Mr. fizz is out banging the bicycle chick.

[GOBUCKS]

A long day slaving over the propane Coleman camper stove comes to naught:

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 01:27 PM
Star Member cbayer (138,392 posts)
12. So, I spent all day cooking yesterday.

I made pickled potatoes and a cilantro dip for appetizers.

Then i made Filled Masa Tartlets (Garnachas Yucantenas). These are masa basket that have layers of home made refried black beans, picadillo and a simple but luscious tomato sauce, topped with some cheese.

Well, our guests baled at the last minute. I think I was sadder than I was mad. Worst of all, one of them had said she was coming over to help me in the afternoon but never showed or called or anything.

Really nice people and I don't really get it.

Can't imagine "baling" on the pretentious thread slayer.

Okay, yes, I can.

[franksolich]

My questions:

Why the Hell would someone put eggs and onions into meatloaf?

And then this mixing of meat--beef with lamb or pork.

What's up with that?  That's like mixing fish with vanilla ice cream.

My mother of Sacred Memory of course used to make meatloaf, putting in--yuk, gag--eggs and onions, but I dunno if she mixed in other meats, too.  I doubt it.

<<<this stomach, at my age, is still a virgin to meatloaf.

<<<used to be sent to bed without supper because wouldn't touch meatloaf.

<<<fails to see any harm done, never having had meatloaf.

[franksolich]

Oh, and bread too?

It's supposed to be a meatloaf, not a bread loaf.

Geezuz.

[Big Dog]

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 01:27 PM
Star Member cbayer (138,392 posts)
12. So, I spent all day cooking yesterday.

I made pickled potatoes and a cilantro dip for appetizers.

Then i made Filled Masa Tartlets (Garnachas Yucantenas). These are masa basket that have layers of home made refried black beans, picadillo and a simple but luscious tomato sauce, topped with some cheese.

cbayer the Thread Slayer says, "Happy ****ing Thanksgiving. Have some beans and cheese."

Well, our guests baled at the last minute...Really nice people and I don't really get it.

Really? You don't get it?

They found out you were feeding them beans and cheese for Thanksgiving. Bertha's Mojave meatloaf sounded better.

[GOBUCKS]

I think the egg and bread (or, better, smashed up saltine crackers) are supposed to help bind the meatloaf together.

Onions are in there because they're good.

My favorite is made from ground pork and bratwurst, then wrapped in bacon.

But not for Thanksgiving.

[GOBUCKS]

Just when you think it couldn't get any worse:

Thu Nov 27, 2014, 10:59 AM
Star Member MineralMan (68,963 posts)

Thanksgiving Dinner: Two Words


Mincemeat Pie.

[Dori]

I just had to post this;  Only a Dummy can make cooking sound like torture.

 

Luminous Animal (22,597 posts)

How to make very good turkey gravy.

Part I:
A day or two ahead of gravy day, buy a turkey leg and thigh. Generously salt and pepper, coat a pan with a thin smear of oil and roast with a roughly chopped medium sized onion until done or near done and the bottom of the pan has nice dark turkey goo.

Meanwhile chop a small onion, some celery, and carrots and toss into a large pot.

Remove pan from oven, throw the leg and thigh into the pot and add water to cover... about 6-7 quarts. Deglaze the roasting pan with a cup of full bodied wine (Cab Sav or Malbec) and add to the pot.

Add about a half cup of dulse, a 2 3x5 pieces of kombu (both sea greens that add and enhance meaty flavors), a cup or 2 of dried mushrooms, 8 cloves of garlic, 4 tbsp of tomato paste, 10-12 pepper corns, smoked salt, and a generous glug of tamari sauce.

Bring to a boil then turn down the heat and simmer gently for up to 4 hours until you have about 3 quarts of stock.

Remove from heat, strain first through a fine sieve and then through a sieve lined with cheese cloth and allow the broth to cool to the point of comfortable handling. (I usually transfer 1/2 to another pot to speed this process along.)

Use your handy dandy fat separator to defat the stock. Reserve a 1/4 cup of fat for Part II.

Refrigerate.

Part II (Gravy day!)

About half way through the turkey roasting process, reheat the stock. Taste and adjust for flavor (more celery? more carrots? more pepper? more wine? etc...) Add neck bones, the popes nose, heart and gizzard and any chicken parts you may have in the freezer; and, if you are like me and deconstruct the turkey prior to roasting, add the back bones and thigh bones. And dried or fresh thyme and oregano and a cup or more of fresh parsley.

Bring to a boil then turn down and keep at a low simmer until the turkey in the oven is done.

Somewhere in there make about a half cup of golden roux with butter and reserved turkey fat.

Part III:
While the turkey is resting on the cutting board, drain all but 3-4 tbsp of fat from the roasting pan and put it on 2 burners on medium-high and ladle in more than a cup of hot stock to deglaze the pan. Scrape. If the liquid gets low, add more and continue to deglaze. When deglazing is done and the liquid is bubbling, add a tbsp of roux, whisk vigorously, and alternate between adding stock, wait to the bubble point and then add more roux and whisking all the while. Keep adding hot stock first and then whisk in roux gradually to the taste and consistency that you desire. Always use a gentle hand with the roux during the process.

Taste and adjust for salt and pepper.

Stain in a fine sieve.

Add a quarter cup of cream.

Voila! A very smooth, deeply flavorful and complex gravy.

 

 
 

[DumbAss Tanker]

Oh, and bread too?

It's supposed to be a meatloaf, not a bread loaf.

Geezuz.

Ah, my friend, all those things you eschew are quite customary and typical ingredients in meatloaf.  Of course you cook for one, or occasionally two; meatloaf is a method of making a large family-style dish out of the same amount of meat that would only make a couple of burgers apiece for two, and often using the cheapest ground beef available...it's a meal for the struggling family, but because of that, it's also a traditional comfort food for many who have attained more comfortable situations.

The eggs are a binder to keep the whole thing together, the onions are purely a taste issue and you're probably in the minority on that one, the bread is a stretcher to extend the size of the thing for feeding a family and also keeps it juicy by holding the meat juices inside the loaf, and the pork is largely unnecessary unless (a) you could get it a lot cheaper than the cheap ground beef, so it becomes an extender or (b) the beef you're using is particularly lean in which case the pork would add fat (Which serves a couple of functions including helping it hold it all together).

[franksolich]

Ah, my friend, all those things you eschew are quite customary and typical ingredients in meatloaf.  Of course you cook for one, or occasionally two; meatloaf is a method of making a large family-style dish out of the same amount of meat that would only make a couple of burgers apiece for two, and often using the cheapest ground beef available...it's a meal for the struggling family, but because of that, it's also a traditional comfort food for many who have attained more comfortable situations.

The eggs are a binder to keep the whole thing together, the onions are purely a taste issue and you're probably in the minority on that one, the bread is a stretcher to extend the size of the thing for feeding a family and also keeps it juicy by holding the meat juices inside the loaf, and the pork is largely unnecessary unless (a) you could get it a lot cheaper than the cheap ground beef, so it becomes an extender or (b) the beef you're using is particularly lean in which case the pork would add fat (Which serves a couple of functions including helping it hold it all together).

Best explanation of the day.  Thank you!

I just always wondered, but never got around to asking.

<<<however, plans to die happy never having had meatloaf.

[Chris_]

How do you end up with dry meatloaf?  It's nearly impossible.

I've been making meatloaf since I learned to cook for myself.  It's always moist and juicy.

[delilahmused]

My questions:

Why the Hell would someone put eggs and onions into meatloaf?

And then this mixing of meat--beef with lamb or pork.

What's up with that?  That's like mixing fish with vanilla ice cream.

My mother of Sacred Memory of course used to make meatloaf, putting in--yuk, gag--eggs and onions, but I dunno if she mixed in other meats, too.  I doubt it.

<<<this stomach, at my age, is still a virgin to meatloaf.

<<<used to be sent to bed without supper because wouldn't touch meatloaf.

<<<fails to see any harm done, never having had meatloaf.

My husband is that way about liver. When he was a kid the smell was so nauseating for him his parents would give him money to get a hamburger and he'd just stay out until the smell was gone. I'm not wild about it myself.

I always put an egg or two in meatloaf. My mom did & my Nana does, onions too. I use almond meal instead of bread crumbs. Sometimes I'll add grated carrots or cheese. And then wrap it in bacon before putting it in the oven.

Cindie

[freedumb2003b]

Oh, and bread too?

It's supposed to be a meatloaf, not a bread loaf.

Geezuz.

Bread and eggs are needed as binders.  If you don't use them the meatloaf falls apart (it is essentially just ground beef in a loaf pan).

[freedumb2003b]

I just had to post this;  Only a Dummy can make cooking sound like torture.

 :thatsright:

(a bazillion more difficult than Good east steps)

Or you can make gravy the way people have been doing it for generations:

1) Remove bird from roasting pan
2) slowly Add chicken stock or water and flour while stirring until you get the consistency you like

Voila!  Gravy!

[Carl]

My questions:

Why the Hell would someone put eggs and onions into meatloaf?

And then this mixing of meat--beef with lamb or pork.

What's up with that?  That's like mixing fish with vanilla ice cream.

My mother of Sacred Memory of course used to make meatloaf, putting in--yuk, gag--eggs and onions, but I dunno if she mixed in other meats, too.  I doubt it.

<<<this stomach, at my age, is still a virgin to meatloaf.

<<<used to be sent to bed without supper because wouldn't touch meatloaf.

<<<fails to see any harm done, never having had meatloaf.

With you on this,all the flavors would just cancel each other out and leave you with meaty gruel.

Might as well just put that tasteless corn stuff in and call it "gritloaf".

 

[Big Dog]

For any lurking DUmmies, here is my simple meatloaf recipe. There is no kale, exotic fishes from the Gobi Desert, or mushrooms from the South Sea - just simple ingredients. Feel free to use it, just stop whining!

2 lb 70% lean hamburger 
1 cup old fashion oats (don't use quick or instant, they will turn to mush)
1 egg
1/2 cup beef broth
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 tsp black pepper
1/2 onion, diced
1/2 green pepper, diced
1 cup crushed tomatoes*
   *May substitute barbecue sauce, salsa, spaghetti sauce, or ketchup

Dutch oven

1. Preheat oven to 375 degrees
2. In a mixing bowl, combine all ingredients except the tomatoes.
3. Press into the Dutch oven, cover with the lid
4. Roast for 30 minutes
5. Cover the top of the meat with the tomatoes
6. Roast for 30 minutes
7. Let stand 10 minutes, slice and serve from the Dutch oven.
- The juice may be used to make gravy.

Tastes even better in sammiches the next day!

[marv]

Here's a neat trick:

Freeze a 1lb package of pork breakfast sausage. When frozen, remove the wrapper (that's another trick), wrap the frozen sausage with bacon, wrap in foil and allow to thaw.

About 20-30 minutes at 350º should do it.

[Big Dog]

Here's a neat trick:

Freeze a 1lb package of pork breakfast sausage. When frozen, remove the wrapper (that's another trick), wrap the frozen sausage with bacon, wrap in foil and allow to thaw.

About 20-30 minutes at 350º should do it.

I like the sound of that!

[franksolich]

Well, damn.

Here it is, 8:00 p.m. central time, 7:00 p.m. mountain time, Thursday, and the cooking and baking primitives still haven't put up a "what's for supper?" thread.

In fact, they haven't put one up since Monday.

One wonders what's up with that, and it can't bode well for the cooking and baking forum.

[GOBUCKS]

Well, damn.

Here it is, 8:00 p.m. central time, 7:00 p.m. mountain time, Thursday, and the cooking and baking primitives still haven't put up a "what's for supper?" thread.

In fact, they haven't put one up since Monday.

One wonders what's up with that, and it can't bode well for the cooking and baking forum.

Maybe something has embarrassed the hateful old crones.

Of course it's hard to imagine anything more embarrassing than being a poster at the DUmp.

[marv]

Well, damn.

Here it is, 8:00 p.m. central time, 7:00 p.m. mountain time, Thursday, and the cooking and baking primitives still haven't put up a "what's for supper?" thread.

In fact, they haven't put one up since Monday.

One wonders what's up with that, and it can't bode well for the cooking and baking forum.

Food poisoning?

[thundley4]

Food poisoning?

All of them? Only if we're very lucky.