http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025833374 Tue Nov 18, 2014, 10:49 AM
1StrongBlackMan (14,943 posts)
Ferguson and Agent Provocateurs ...
As the nation (or DU, at least) braces itself for what seems to be a foregone conclusion: the Ferguson Grand Jury will return a No Bill on the case of Darren Wilson's killing of Michael Brown, and that (IMO) travesty and failure of justice will result in violent protests, there has been a lot of talk about the possibility of "Agent Provocateurs" acting to bring that violence about.
I believe we have good reason to suspect this to be the case ... from the klan's recent announcements to this summer's activities of various anarchists, not to mention the history of social movements, where persons/groups with alternative motives seek to exploit public outrage to further their own agenda.
But I would like to draw DU's attention to a little discussed, even protected, class of "Agent Provocateurs" ... the "Citizen Journalist." I know that liberals/progressives seem to think anyone with a camera is/can be considered a "member of the press", serving a/the vital role of the "4th Estate." And while we hold the "freedom of the press" in high value, I believe we would benefit from examining/discussing the role of the "Citizen Journalist" in enflaming/inciting conduct that might not occur, if these "journalist" sought to record "the news" rather than, "making" the news.
For example, this summer we saw thread after thread of "Officer F@#% Off." As you might recall, the video of the Ferguson Officer telling the guy (holding a camera) to "F@#% Off" and threatening to shoot folks.
While the Officer's conduct was clearly inappropriate, does anyone consider the "journalist's" taunting of the Officer an appropriate role of a "journalist, as it clearly done with the hope of provoking, and catching on film, police violence. This, again IMO, takes us out of the realm of reporting/recording what is occurring ... the legitimate role of the "Citizen Journalist" ... and places it into the "making of news" realm ... a non-journalistic role.
Does anyone doubt that the immediate area where this occurred was made more explosive than had the "journalist" simply been a silent recorder of what was occurring, rather than inserting himself into the scene?
Beyond the above example, does anyone doubt these same provocations were happening between "journalist" and the protesters? And/or, can anyone deny that people respond differently when they know a camera is present? ... Some people withdraw; while, others act out, especially when they are already agitated.
This subject has been troubling me since the summer ... particularly, after seeing outrage over the treatment of some journalists; while, observing significantly less outrage over the grandmother that was gassed, while in her own yard. While both had the "right" to be there, my sympathies go far more to the resident; than, the "citizen journalist."
{Disclaimer: I apologize for what I know to be a semi-coherent OP ... it was written more as a recording of my random thoughts, than a planned piece.}
Semi-coherent is what we expect from the DUmp.
Too bad the islands only actual journalist is on hiatus.
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 10:56 AM
Star Member MannyGoldstein (29,463 posts)
3. Agreed.
This is a problem.No simple solution.
Stupid is your problem Manny.
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 10:56 AM
Star Member ChisolmTrailDem (4,777 posts)
4. I don't buy it. Just because a citizen takes out a camera and starts recording does not
make that citizen a "journalist". Sometimes it's just a citizen recording an event of which he/she is a part. Therefore, the citizen, though wielding a recording device, is still a citizen that is most likely one of the protesters and not a "journalist". So, there is no "agent provocateur", but rather a citizen protester who also happens to have a recording device. So, whatever said citizen does is done as a participant of the protest, and is not doing as an agent provocateur.
BLASPHEMY!!!!
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 11:02 AM
morningfog (9,824 posts)
5. I'm still holding out hope for an indictment, probably for second degree murder or voluntary
manslaughter. I hope all the protests regardless are peaceful and that the police and agent provocateurs don't incite worse.
In the real world it is obama sons waiting to rampage.
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 11:18 AM
Lee-Lee (1,613 posts)
8. There will probably be some. There will also be the people who blame all misconduct on them
And in doing so use the notion of them, if they are there or not, as a way to excuse violence or pretend that nobody they support did it.
Here is a hint,look around you in the cesspool.
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 12:12 PM
2naSalit (5,480 posts)
12. INteresting thoughts
I tend to suspect that there will be plenty of the provocateurs of the type who will be there specifically to incite violence and disrupt what would otherwise be peaceful protest. A self-fulfilling prophecy already put forth by the governor and others who are already predicting violence. The James O'Keeffe types who are paid to do this. I recall many videos of other peaceful protests where off duty cops dressed up in civilian clothes and marched with protesters for a time then when close to the police line started acting out to provoke the police into a retaliatory mode and all hell broke loose with many real protesters being injured and arrested. Interestingly the faux protesters were taken aside and released to cause more trouble... and they were recorded doing this by the citizen/protesters holding cameras.
It's not what I want to see but it is what I expect will happen given all those who want to maintain the status quo of keeping the poor, underserved and non-white down.
Just sayin'
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 12:23 PM
Star Member 2banon (4,142 posts)
14. I agree with your point.
I've seen this in other actions by activists which made me question as to what their agenda actually is.
At the same time, we must also be mindfully aware that there are actual Agent Provocateurs who are employed by the very Police Agency deployed to "control" the citizens, most often disguised as Black Bloc Anarchist . or actually are Black Bloc Anarchist.
I agree it's a serious problem. I think worthy of discussion.
In an asylum maybe.
