primitive has problems shifting gears on car; Skippy to the rescue

[franksolich]

http://election.democraticunderground.com/1205557

Oh my.

intheflow (24,724 posts)    Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:04 PM

And suddenly, I can't shift into first with my '97 Saturn SL2.

Kind of happened suddenly. I noticed some resistance driving into work this morning, then as I was driving home it was like I had to jam it into first. Just ended up starting from second for most of the hour-long commute home.
 
So I've come here to crowdsource: any idea what I might expect to pay for a clutch replacement on a '97 Saturn? It's been a good car to me, I've had it 3.5 years and it has a little over 295k miles on it. My last Saturn, a '96, blew its engine at 314k. I love these little reliable workhorses. But maybe at this point, I should look into just buying another one of this dying breed. What do you all think?

NYC_SKP (62,095 posts)    Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:36 PM

1. I'm not a Saturn owner, but I've changed out clutches and rebuilt a transmission once.

This sounds like a busted syncro gear more than a clutch or maybe I'm misunderstanding the symptoms.
 
Is there always resistance or just sometimes?

Is the problem that the gear grind or just resistance.

Shift linkages might need adjustment or lubrication or might have play and need new small parts, and/or the clutch might need adjustment. These are cheap and easy fixes.
 
Was it a gradual problem or did it occur all at once?

intheflow (24,724 posts)     Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:44 PM

3. I seems like it happened pretty suddenly.

It's an older car, and I've had my moment of "don't find it, grind it," but I've been driving stick for almost 30 years now. I had a clutch go out in one of my first cars, and I remember it being more gradual. I didn't notice anything, then went to visit my son a few weeks ago in another state & drove his new car around for a bit. When I returned to driving my car, I did notice shifting was harder, but his shift feels ridiculously loose to me so I I just figured it was my readjusting to driving my car. It really wasn't hard to shift, I didn't have to jam the stick into gear or anything, it moved smoothly through the gears. But today, after work, I had to jam it hard into first, so hard I jut gave up and drove starting from second.

NYC_SKP (62,095 posts)     Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:54 PM

4. Typically, we go into first gear only when we are at a full stop, from neutral.

If it was the clutch, there would be a grind because the the clutch is not disengaging from the transmission input shaft, that's an out of adjustment clutch. The other type of clutch failure is a slipping and/or burnt clutch and that means the engine will rev while the car doesn't get all the power.
 
So I don't think it's your clutch. Try testing how hard it is to shift through the gears with the clutch pedal depressed and the engine off.
 
If this is still hard then I suspect bad bushing, need to adjust the shift linkages. It might be cured by replacing the shifter, it's worth investigating before making a commitment to do something more expensive and extreme.
 
I looked around, try the youtube DIY vids"

after which a youtube video

intheflow (24,724 posts)    Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:54 PM

7. Thanks, Skip.

I will say it doesn't feel like I remember a bad clutch. I told my boyfriend it felt more like the shifter than the clutch (my rudimentary understanding of each relative to the other being "clutch on floor, shifter on stick.") Looking at this video, I could see this being the problem very easily. Thanks for the education!

NYC_SKP (62,095 posts)    Sun Oct 12, 2014, 12:00 AM

9. You're welcome! As I said, and others, it could be the syncromesh gears but I'd check the linkage.

The shifter and linkage parts are more accessible.

I remember from rebuilding a 3 speed chevy transmission how the syncro gears work and understand how, if they are worn, it can make it hard to shift, but IIRC, there's usually some noise that comes with that, or at least you feel the grinding in through the shifter.
 
But I also know that if bushings and other parts are worn or loose in the shifting mechanism, this can definitely make shifting hard without any noise or vibration in the shifter knob.
 
I'm thinking shift linkage!

Let us know how it goes!

[Linda]

intheflow do the smart thing and take it to a certified mechanic. It will save you time and money in the long run.

[JohnnyReb]

Two-clutch it......oh.....you can't do that with modern DUmmie proof transmissions.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Sounds a lot like a linkage issue.  Needs to go to a real mechanic.

[BattleHymn]

Those Saturns use cables for linkage.  It may have stretched out of adjustment. 

[diesel driver]

Those Saturns use cables for linkage.  It may have stretched out of adjustment.

Chevy Cavaliers had the same setup, DUmmie needs to check the adjustment of the cables and replace the bushing at the bottom of the shifter. 

Changing the trans oil once won't hurt, either.  Most modern car manual trans use ATF, swapping the last quart of Dexron for a quart of Mobil 1 0W-20 will clean the varnish off the synchronizers and ease sticky shifting.

[fatboy]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. It could be the actual shift lever itself. The lever pivots on a ball like assembly under the shift lever boot. This ball is made of high density plastic and when it wears out makes it difficult to shift,  especally into first. If the operator pulls up on the lever when shifting, it might work better. But if this is the problem, the only solution is to replace the lever assembly.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. It could be the actual shift lever itself. The lever pivots on a ball like assembly under the shift lever boot. This ball is made of high density plastic and when it wears out makes it difficult to shift,  especally into first. If the operator pulls up on the lever when shifting, it might work better. But if this is the problem, the only solution is to replace the lever assembly.

Good advice, I should add that when I said 'linkage issue' I was talking about anything mechanical between the shifter knob on one end to the the lever on the tranny at the other.

 

[BlueStateSaint]

the lever on the tranny

You want to restate that, DAT?

[DumbAss Tanker]

You want to restate that, DAT?

 

It's a DUmmie's car, who am I to question it's gender choice?

[BlueStateSaint]

 

It's a DUmmie's car, who am I to question it's gender choice?

Well played! H5 duly given.

[diesel driver]

 

It's a DUmmie's car, who am I to question it's gender choice?

The only way to be sure of a DUmmies' car gender is to turn it over, preferably on a steep incline, with the DUmmie inside.

[BlueStateSaint]

The only way to be sure of a DUmmies' car gender is to turn it over, preferably on a steep incline, with the DUmmie inside.

Repeatedly, at high RPM.

[diesel driver]

Repeatedly, at high RPM.

     

[67 Rover]

Two-clutch it......oh.....you can't do that with modern DUmmie proof transmissions.

I love my 67 Land Rover, it has straight cut gears requiring a double clutch to shift.

16 forward and 4 reverse gears.

I can actually shift my Tacoma without the clutch due the many years of driving the Rover.

Bonus:  It also serves as a theft deterrent.

[Eupher]

I owned a 2000 Saturn L-something-or-other, with a 5-speed.

A bigger piece-of-shit shifter simply did not exist on the planet. It was difficult shifting (even when new), it was loose and sloppy (sorta like DUmmies anyway), and just plain terrible.

My money's on the shifter, though I don't know much about changing out clutches, shifters, bushings, trannies, (  ) cables, synchro gears, or anything other than Dexron II. That stuff, I know. 

[Skul]

Silly DUmmy needs to do some research. The cure can be found in several threads. Drain the fluid, then fill with an equal quantity of bleach. The bleach breaks down the varnish deposits on the tranny gears.  Drive car at least four hours before switching back to fluid.
Easy fix if done right. Good thing DUmp Munkies don't read CC.

[Eupher]

Silly DUmmy needs to do some research. The cure can be found in several threads. Drain the fluid, then fill with an equal quantity of bleach. The bleach breaks down the varnish deposits on the tranny gears.  Drive car at least four hours before switching back to fluid.
Easy fix if done right. Good thing DUmp Munkies don't read CC.

 

Yep. Skul's back.

[fatboy]

I owned a 2000 Saturn L-something-or-other, with a 5-speed.

A bigger piece-of-shit shifter simply did not exist on the planet. It was difficult shifting (even when new), it was loose and sloppy (sorta like DUmmies anyway), and just plain terrible.

My money's on the shifter, though I don't know much about changing out clutches, shifters, bushings, trannies, (  ) cables, synchro gears, or anything other than Dexron II. That stuff, I know. 

I had a 2001 L-100 that is where I got the idea that it might be the shifter. Mine was actually a nice car.

The clutch is a hydro and the standard tranny is lubbed with dextron oddly enough.

I also have a 2002 VUE with 208K on the clock. I hope to get another 50-60 out of it. The shifter is starting to go on it also. Waiting for a recall notice for the ignition switch. I replaced the original myself about 6 years ago. Had to have a GM dealer program the vin into the new lock.

[Ptarmigan]

DUmmies go to DU about car problems.