For dutch and other shooters

[ChuckJ]

I place this here in the Dumpster instead of a probably more appropriate forum for the benefit of the lurking DUmmies.

I ask this question because the only hand guns that I’ve ever fired have been a .22 revolver and a .357 Desert Eagle.

Let’s assume that the two points of the DUmmies' dreams are true…
(!) the cold-blooded cop wanted to execute a black man
(2) the sweet and innocent black man peacefully raised his hands in surrender

At 35’ should it have taken more than one shot? I realize that cops aren’t sharpshooters, but I assume they do have some marksmanship training. I’m not a shooter and I’ve hit moving armadillos at around that distance.

The shot pattern on the autopsy sketch appears to me (an admitted no nothing) to better fit the idea of a cop, fearing for his life, rapidly spraying and praying toward center mass.

[JohnnyReb]

Nerves maybe....probably.

That's why I bought "The Judge" for home defense. 1 shot = 4 38 caliber slugs/disc and 16 steel BBs. Give me a couple of seconds and the assailant will look like Swiss cheese.

[dutch508]

I place this here in the Dumpster instead of a probably more appropriate forum for the benefit of the lurking DUmmies.

I ask this question because the only hand guns that I’ve ever fired have been a .22 revolver and a .357 Desert Eagle.

Let’s assume that the two points of the DUmmies' dreams are true…
(!) the cold-blooded cop wanted to execute a black man
(2) the sweet and innocent black man peacefully raised his hands in surrender

At 35’ should it have taken more than one shot? I realize that cops aren’t sharpshooters, but I assume they do have some marksmanship training. I’m not a shooter and I’ve hit moving armadillos at around that distance.

The shot pattern on the autopsy sketch appears to me (an admitted no nothing) to better fit the idea of a cop, fearing for his life, rapidly spraying and praying toward center mass.

35 feet to the car. Wilson was probably closer than that as he was after Brown before he turned. You train to shoot center mass until the target is down. We train at 50 feet max with slow steady shots. Closer in faster shots. If Wilson was carrying a Glock .40 S&W the shot pattern isn't too bad. When you hurry you jerk the trigger which pulls the bullets up and to the left. I would hazard a guess at the distance being 15 to 20 feet max.

Look at the photos of Brown at the scene. No blood on his back at all. NONE.

But, anyway- whatever. DUmp's gotta spin and leftists gotta burn shit down.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Like it says more concisely in my sig line, if your life is on the line, you don't shoot once and stop to see if it had the desired effect.

[BadCat]

35 feet to the car. Wilson was probably closer than that as he was after Brown before he turned. You train to shoot center mass until the target is down. We train at 50 feet max with slow steady shots. Closer in faster shots. If Wilson was carrying a Glock .40 S&W the shot pattern isn't too bad. When you hurry you jerk the trigger which pulls the bullets up and to the left. I would hazard a guess at the distance being 15 to 20 feet max.

Look at the photos of Brown at the scene. No blood on his back at all. NONE.

But, anyway- whatever. DUmp's gotta spin and leftists gotta burn shit down.

I consider myself fairly well trained, but with adrenaline and all, who knows?  I  probably would have shot him until he stopped twitching.

[Dori]

When you hurry you jerk the trigger which pulls the bullets up and to the left. I would hazard a guess at the distance being 15 to 20 feet max.

Except for the top of the head shot, the other wounds were on the right side of the body, which might explain what you said about the bullet pulling to the cops left.  According to the coroner, he was not shot in the back and some of the wounds were re-entry wounds.

Is 35ft even that far away from you, if the culprit is 6'4" 300lbs and charging at you?

[Carl]

I have no military or law enforcement training either but if I felt my life was in jeopardy I am sending as much lead down range as I possibly can.

Think about this DUmbasses,the 18 year old giant of a person just confronted a police officer and attempted to take his service weapon away.
What would be the most likely reason for trying to do that?
Oh yeah,so as to use it.
My guess is that every LEO has been instructed to presume (correct me if wrong) that means the perp intends to so fatal harm.

Now,imagine the same giant of a man,one you can not beat in a wrestling match,advancing towards you with once again obvious malice.

Bye bye thug,welcome to eternities BBQ pit.

[ChuckJ]

I consider myself fairly well trained, but with adrenaline and all, who knows?  I  probably would have shot him until he stopped twitching.

But see, in the DUmp’s make believe scenario there may have been adrenaline, but there shouldn’t have been any fear because they so badly want to think that the black guy was just peacefully standing still with his arms in the air when the cop intentionally murdered him in cold-blood.

Dutch did answer the question that I was wondering about with the shot pattern. Thanks dutch.

Now let me rephrase my original post just a bit…

After not firing a firearm of any type for 4 or so years, I took a .22 revolver that I hadn’t fired in 15 years and, with one shot, hit a moving armadillo that was about the size of a football and that was located about 30 to 35 feet from me. I wasn’t scared because the armadillo was not a physical threat to me, but my adrenaline was flowing because I wanted to get the shot off before he got into a wooded area where I’d lose sight of him.

Now let’s relate my event to what the DUmp so badly wants to be the case in Ferguson…
Like me, the cop would have had adrenaline flowing. Like me, the cop wasn’t scared because the angel was standing with his arms in the air. Like me, the cop would have been shooting at a football (or larger) sized target (the guy’s head) because he wanted to murder the black guy. UNLIKE me, the cop was using a service weapon with which he probably had trained at least a few times per year. UNLIKE me, the cop was not shooting a moving target.

My untrained thoughts are that the cop should be a better shot than I am so if the DUmp’s scenario was even close to true the autopsy should have only shown one bullet wound to the head. The fact that there are multiple gun shot wounds looks to MY untrained eye as someone attempting to stop someone and NOT like someone attempting to execute a stationary person in cold blood.


One other thing that bothers me is that the DUmp and the news media keeps referring to him as an unarmed kid. We're not talking about a tiny 5 year old little girl. We are talking about a very large adult male.

[J P Sousa]

35 feet to the car. Wilson was probably closer than that as he was after Brown before he turned. You train to shoot center mass until the target is down. We train at 50 feet max with slow steady shots. Closer in faster shots. If Wilson was carrying a Glock .40 S&W the shot pattern isn't too bad. When you hurry you jerk the trigger which pulls the bullets up and to the left. I would hazard a guess at the distance being 15 to 20 feet max.

My experience was just the opposite (down to the right), but then I was only shooting at a paper target.

I would imagine in a panic situation the muscles in the body would tighten making it hard to control. For that reason I shake my head when I hear people say, "why didn't the police just shoot him in the leg".

 

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[ChuckJ]

My experience was just the opposite (down to the right), but then I was only shooting at a paper target.

I would imagine in a panic situation the muscles in the body would tighten making it hard to control. For that reason I shake my head when I hear people say, "why didn't the police just shoot him in the leg".

.

I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but your post made me think of it.

As a kid I grew up way out in the country. Sometimes the family would take the revolver and do some target shooting. We'd set up cans of various sizes at various distances. Mom could hit every one of them with one shot every single time. Dad would miss every one of them every time. Every year we'd always have at least one 4' to 5' timber rattler and one 4' to 5' diamondback found on the property. Mom could be standing 10 from it and miss it every shot. Dad, who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn otherwise, would stand the same distance and pop it in the head every shot.

[J P Sousa]

I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but your post made me think of it.

As a kid I grew up way out in the country. Sometimes the family would take the revolver and do some target shooting. We'd set up cans of various sizes at various distances. Mom could hit every one of them with one shot every single time. Dad would miss every one of them every time. Every year we'd always have at least one 4' to 5' timber rattler and one 4' to 5' diamondback found on the property. Mom could be standing 10 from it and miss it every shot. Dad, who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn otherwise, would stand the same distance and pop it in the head every shot.

You didn't make pets out of them ?   
.

[ChuckJ]

You didn't make pets out of them ?   
.

well, not exactly pets, but when we got through with them you could pet them.

When I was 16 I came across a diamond back on an old dirt country road near the house. He was about 3.5' to 4' long. By the time I got the pistol he had slithered into some underbrush and coiled in a bunch of sage brush. I barely could see him. I fired 9 shots. He never stopped singing his rattles. I figured I'd missed him all 9 times. I was out of ammo so I went to the Jeep to get a hoe (the kind you farm with and not the kind you have fun with). By the time I made it back, the snake had crawled back to the road. I hacked his head off with the hoe. I got to looking and I'd hit him 8 of the 9 times, but all the hits were in the body instead of the head. Since then I've used a machete and call the process of completely separating the head from the body 'taming'. With a good, sharp machete you can 'tame' one so a baby can play with it.

[JohnnyReb]

I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but your post made me think of it.

As a kid I grew up way out in the country. Sometimes the family would take the revolver and do some target shooting. We'd set up cans of various sizes at various distances. Mom could hit every one of them with one shot every single time. Dad would miss every one of them every time. Every year we'd always have at least one 4' to 5' timber rattler and one 4' to 5' diamondback found on the property. Mom could be standing 10 from it and miss it every shot. Dad, who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn otherwise, would stand the same distance and pop it in the head every shot.

Had a great grandmother that people said was a pretty good shot. They say she killed many mad dogs running with a 38 she carried in her apron.

Daddy was a fair shot with a pistol. We heard a mad dog was coming our way so we were putting the 2 milk cows in the barn. The mad dog caught us in the middle of doing that. Daddy picked my skinny ass up in his left hand and put me up over his head against the barn wall where I could get my fingers in the space between the boards to climb up out of danger. Still holding me up, he fired 6 shots at the mad dog with a .22 double action target pistol as the dog ran toward us. He finally fell a feet away on the last shot daddy made. We couldn't see where daddy hit him but when we looped a twine on his hind leg to drag him off, we could. Daddy had hit the dog apparently in the mouth every shot because when we rolled him over we counted 6 exit wounds in his side, each one about an inch below the other. I guess as the dog got closer the angle varied a little each time causing the evenly spaced exit wounds. Daddy keep the old pistol loaded with long rifle hollow points after that.

[Big Dog]

You didn't make pets out of them ?   
.

If you do, they just grow up to vote Democrat.

[ChuckJ]

If you do, they just grow up to vote Democrat.

Well, even if they're dead they'll vote Democrat so it's kind of lose-lose.

[BlueStateSaint]

Shoot until the target stops moving, if said target is coming at you.  If the target is moving away, ceasing firing would seem to be the legal thing to do.

ETA:  As a young cavalryman, our guidance was "shoot until the target burns."  'Course, that's if your target is a vehicle.

[catsmtrods]

The autopsy clearly shows the innocent black man was standing with his hands raised begging the evil cop not to shoot. The cop just kept shooting him in the arm while telling him to "put those arms down so I can shoot you in the head"! When the poor black man could no longer hold his hands up? Oh no!

[FiddyBeowulf]

Is 35ft even that far away from you, if the culprit is 6'4" 300lbs and charging at you?

The standard theory is that if a perp is within 20 feet of you he can be in your face before you can draw and get a shot off. Unless your someone like Ed McGivern or Jerry Miculek that is.

[dutch508]

My experience was just the opposite (down to the right), but then I was only shooting at a paper target.

I would imagine in a panic situation the muscles in the body would tighten making it hard to control. For that reason I shake my head when I hear people say, "why didn't the police just shoot him in the leg".

 

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I wasn't completely clear. I didn't add that if you have too little finger on the trigger when you fire your shot pattern will be in the 9 o'clock position. It happens a lot when in a tense situation too much finger on the trigger puts the pattern in the 3 o'clock position. Assuming he wasn't a left hander...

[freedumb2003b]

This has nothing to do with marksmanship.  It is about training.  It used to be that cops were taught to "double tap" (2 quick shots).  Now they are taught to empty their clip.

There have been many cases where 1 or even 2 bullets even from a .38 or .45 was not enough to stop drug-crazed  perps.

The cop followed his training.

And rightfully so.

[67 Rover]

This has nothing to do with marksmanship.  It is about training.  It used to be that cops were taught to "double tap" (2 quick shots).  Now they are taught to empty their clip mag.

There have been many cases where 1 or even 2 bullets even from a .38 or .45 was not enough to stop drug-crazed  perps.

The cop followed his training.

And rightfully so.

FIFY

[freedumb2003b]

FIFY

Thanks -- I am at the age where word selection is getting more difficult all the time.

[J P Sousa]

Thanks -- I am at the age where word selection is getting more difficult all the time.

I can sympathize. Even drinking more coffee doesn't help. 
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[freedumb2003b]

I can sympathize. Even drinking more coffee doesn't help.  :(
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Yep -- you just find the wrong word quicker.

[67 Rover]

Yep -- you just find the wrong word quicker.

  H5