Author Topic: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.  (Read 1859 times)

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Offline dutch508

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Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« on: August 17, 2014, 04:19:03 PM »
Look at the question raised by the far left publication below. In the article is the questioned answered?

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hue (4,438 posts) http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1251374539

Exactly How Often Do Police Shoot Unarmed Black Men?


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-michael-brown-ferguson-black-men

The killing in Ferguson was one of many such cases. Here's what the data reveals.

The killing of Michael Brown by police in Ferguson, Missouri, was no anomaly: As we reported yesterday, Brown is one of at least four unarmed black men who died at the hands of police in the last month alone. There are many more cases from years past. As Jeffrey Mittman, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Missouri chapter put it in a statement of condolence to Brown's family, "Unarmed African-American men are shot and killed by police at an alarming rate. This pattern must stop."

But quantifying that pattern is difficult. Federal databases that track police use of force or arrest-related deaths paint only a partial picture. Police department data is scattered and fragmented. No agency appears to track the number of police shootings or killings of unarmed victims in a systematic, comprehensive way.

Here's some of what we do know:

Previous attempts to analyze racial bias in police shootings have arrived at similar conclusions. In 2007, ColorLines and the Chicago Reporter investigated fatal police shootings in 10 major cities, and found that there were a disproportionately high number of African Americans among police shooting victims in every one, particularly in New York, San Diego, and Las Vegas.

More MoJo coverage of the Michael Brown police shooting

Ferguson Is 60 Percent Black. Virtually All Its Cops Are White.
"Hands Up, Don't Shoot:" Peaceful Protests Across the Country Last Night
4 Unarmed Black Men Have Been Killed By Police in the Last Month
A Few Horrifying Pictures From Ferguson Last Night
Anonymous Posts St. Louis Police Dispatch Tapes From Day of Ferguson Shooting
Incredibly Powerful Photo of Black Students at Howard University
The Ferguson Shooting and the Science of Race and Guns


"We need not look for individual racists to say that we have a culture of policing that is really rubbing salt into longstanding racial wounds," NAACP president Cornell Williams Brooks told Mother Jones. It's a culture in which people suspected of minor crimes are met with "overwhelmingly major, often lethal, use of force," he says.

Not questioning if there are more criminal cases with blacks rather than whites in each of the cities listed, Mother Jones sees more blacks killed by police than whites and jumps to the conclusion all cops are racists.

Based on the FBI Stats for 2012, the last complete data we have so far, in that year 12,765 people were killed and listed as homicides [note: suicide is listed as a type of homicide]. 5,855 were black. Of murders, 2,648 were black.( 2,412 were murdered by other blacks)
in 2012, 410 were deemed justifiable homicide by Law Enforcement. (there is no data on race)

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agbdf (126 posts)
3. Each case has to be individually reviewed based on the facts

If Brown attacked the officer and tried to take that officer's pistol away from him, as is being suggested, then the officer's use of deadly force is justified. A police officer, by his or her legal authority in all fifty states, does not have to sit helplessly by while a stronger, although unarmed suspect, overpowers that officer.

There is little doubt, based on the store video, that Brown had previously, that same evening, engaged in a strong arm robbery of a store. I believe the toxicology report, when released will reveal that he was on drugs. I have little doubt that he tried to attack the officer and reach for his gun. The repeated use of the term "unarmed" to describe this tragic incident does little to clarify what actually happened. The media has acted very irresponsibly throughout this entire affair.

As to the looters, they seem more motivated by the opportunity to obtain material goods. Some have been opportunistically driving in from miles away to loot stuff.


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Star Member Warren Stupidity (38,762 posts)
4. So you showed up here just to post this sort of nonsense? Good luck.

Nonsense in this case being the truth.

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bl968 (227 posts)
5. Yes but This works right up till the point that witnesses reported that he raised his hands and the officer kept firing.

 ::)
The witness being Mr. Johnson- the other person in the video of the store robbery.
Of course- now there are several witness statements caught on tape saying Mr. Brown assaulted the police officer and charged at him.

Like the obvious mole- I await the tox screens. AND the autopsy reports.

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Offline DUmpsterDiver

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2014, 05:06:40 PM »
This mental giant, with his neck tattooed accomplice, muscled a clerk  for some blunt stock and then went on to rough up a skinny cop.  He got called on his animal stupidity.  He won't do it again. 

This whole "hands up" crap is a tribal mentality that thinks a tweet and an accomplice statement make the defending cop guilty.  They will be proved wrong once again and learn nothing from it.  Keep your powder dry and your sights aligned.

Offline Delmar

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2014, 06:52:33 PM »
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Response to BronxBoy (Reply #13)Sun Aug 17, 2014, 06:41 PM
Star Member chervilant (5,768 posts)
14. Have you noticed

that there has been an increase in the type of bloggers who have joined DU in the past day or two, and then post something that sounds suspiciously like a conservative perspective regarding the socio-political issue du jour?

That police officer KILLED an unarmed teenager! I find that completely insupportable!

The Democrat Underground Style Guide directs that "executed" be used in place of "killed."
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Offline Undies

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2014, 10:26:40 PM »
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That police officer KILLED an unarmed teenager! I find that completely insupportable!

OMG!! OMG!! You mean that teenager who was twice the size of an ordinary man, and that teenager who had already roughed up a store clerk was UNARMED????  OMG!! OMG!! 

(Isn't being physically intimidating and using it to an advantage a "kind of armed"???)

Offline Carl

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 07:28:27 AM »
OMG!! OMG!! You mean that teenager who was twice the size of an ordinary man, and that teenager who had already roughed up a store clerk was UNARMED????  OMG!! OMG!! 

(Isn't being physically intimidating and using it to an advantage a "kind of armed"???)

According to the klams on the island just being male is a violent threat.

Offline Gina

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 07:59:53 AM »


How much you wanna bet those liquor bottles get lifted?

AND is that a bottle of cough medicine between the black bottle and fruit image covered bottle?






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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 08:37:17 AM »


How much you wanna bet those liquor bottles get lifted?

AND is that a bottle of cough medicine between the black bottle and fruit image covered bottle?

I think so--a generic 'Night Quil' or something along those lines.

ETA:  H5 for the catch, milady!
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Offline Gina

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 08:41:19 AM »
 :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:  That's hilarious. and Sad

Plus it's not full  :rotf:






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Offline SVPete

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2014, 10:28:37 AM »
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:  That's hilarious. and Sad

Plus it's not full  :rotf:

Several of the bottles are partially or completely empty. And metal screw-on caps = equal cheap wino-grade @#$%.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2014, 10:44:20 AM »
Several of the bottles are partially or completely empty. And metal screw-on caps = equal cheap wino-grade @#$%.
They drank the older, aged, vintage stuff.....bottled in July, 2014.
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Offline zeitgeist

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 10:45:24 AM »
Facts are to DUmmies as Kryptonite is to Superman.  Here is the analysis by one of the best and brightest of the bunch at DU.  I will post the entire thread for your edification and enjoyment.  It is very short, rather like a Dummy's attention span:

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justiceischeap (11,171 posts)

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10025395421

The "black on black" crime fallacy
     
 I see this so often, whether it be the news (TV, print, radio) or here, on DU. People think that black on black crime is exceptional in some way but it really isn't. People have a tendency to kill within their "social network." What does that mean? It means white people kill white people and black people kill black people. And the numbers aren't that far off when it comes to inter-race homicide (but when you look at other crime stats, forcible rape, aggravated assault, etc. the white folks win out my a mile). So, after seeing this brought up so often during the Mike Brown case, I decided to have a look at the FBI stats from 2007 - 2012 and here's what I found:

These numbers are based on homicides committed by race (I'm using Google URL Shortener to the FBI stat pages so the links will work with DU):
2007
White = 6,948
Black = 7,316

2008
White = 6,838
Black = 6,782

2009
White = 6,568
Black = 6,556

2009 Violent Crime Stats by Race (FBI Data)
White = 268,346
Black = 177,766

2010
White = 6,043
Black = 6,470

2010 Overall Violent Crime Stats by Race (FBI Data)
White = 254,620
Black = 163,670

2011
White = 5,825
Black = 6,329

2012
White = 5,855
Back = 6,454

So, yes, if we break it down to just homicides, the black on black crime tends to beat out white on white crime but when you look at the overall crime stats, there is a much larger problem with white on white crime than there is black on black crime. So maybe when you bring "black on black crime" into an argument, you should specify the kinds of crime you're talking about and keep in mind that more often than not, black on black and white on white homicide rates aren't that far apart.

Also, forcible rape (and other sexual offenses) is definitely a problem within the white race--not to say it doesn't happen within the black community but white folks (dare I say men?) seem to corner the market on forcible rape.

I'm also aware that there are less black people in the US than white people and some will argue percentages and I will concede that's true but it doesn't negate the fact that people ignore that there's such a thing as white on white crime and it happens often.

So the next time you bring up black on black crime, don't forget to mention that according to statistics, we have a huge problem in the white community with white on white forcible rape; we also seem to corner the market on mass murderer's and serial killers.
 
That was the premise here are all the replies (note the name removed )

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Response to justiceischeap (Original post)

Sat Aug 16, 2014, 10:32 AM

Hangingon (2,247 posts)

2. I think you have to factor in demographics.
 




The 2010 census shows that whites are about 72% of the population while blacks are 12%. I just grabbed quick figures from Wiki. The number of blacks killed in the smaller black population is more significant than the number of whites killed in the larger white population.
 

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Response to justiceischeap (Original post)

Sat Aug 16, 2014, 10:48 AM

hack89 (27,305 posts)

3. You need to look at rates when comparing disparate population sizes
 




That being said, in a racial segregated society like America, one would not expect interracial violence to be the norm. Criminals regardless of race prey on the people that are close to them.
 

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Response to justiceischeap (Original post)

Sat Aug 16, 2014, 10:53 AM

Star Member gollygee (15,229 posts)

4. I will put this here
 




http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/badcomm.htm
 

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Response to justiceischeap (Original post)

Sat Aug 16, 2014, 10:56 AM

Gormy Cuss (28,683 posts)

5. There are tabulations of race of victim x race offender in the FBI data.
 




Here's one for 2010:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl06.xls

In 2010, where race of victim and offender were known, here are the white vs. black breakdowns:

Whites, total homicides: 3327
White offender, white victim: 2777 (83.5% of total)
Black offender, white victim: 447 (13.4%)

Blacks, total homicides: 2720
Black offender, black victim: 2459 (90.4%)
White offender, black victim: 218 (8%)


which supports your assertion above, that white on white crime at least when it comes to homicide, is nearly as common as black on black crime.


Sorry, don't have time to dig through other years of data. 
 

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #5)

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Offline FiddyBeowulf

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Re: Seeing the facts and jumping to the wrong conclusions.
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 11:47:37 AM »
Several of the bottles are partially or completely empty. And metal screw-on caps = equal cheap wino-grade @#$%.
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