Ignorance or Stupidity

[zeitgeist]

Is this OP an example of ignorance or stupidity? 

Ignorance vs Stupidity

The intrinsic difference is that ignorance simply implies lack of awareness about something, while stupidity denotes the inability of a person to understand something due to insufficient intelligence, thus leading to the misinterpretation of a fact.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10025271604

redgreenandblue (1,202 posts)

I wasn't alive then, but I suspect the *exact* same discussions were had regarding native Americans.   
 
I think there are strong parallels between the founding of the USA and the founding of Israel.
I think the history of both can be simplified as follows:

Once there was a place where
a mostly nomadic population was living on the ruins of ancient kingdoms. Then a stream of
settlers from Europe showed up. Some of them refugees escaping from persecution by other
white people, with very good reasons for wanting to leave. Some religious fanatics. Some
simply people looking for cheap land. The settlers came armed with a religion that contained
a justification for possessing the land and were backed
by the military might of a colonialist empire. At some point the legal structures of the white
man were employed to formally create a new nation and codify that the movement of the locals should
be restricted to certain areas. When the pushback came, this pushback was used as justification for
further seizing of land and resources, re-locations and the like. Rinse, repeat, until the natives were left
with nothing except small "reservations" in which terrible living conditions existed.

I'm sure all the same rationalizations were employed as they are today. The more radical elements
which developed among the native population were used as a pretext for expansion, as was their
"savagery". "If they had accepted the borders of 1737, we wouldn't have been forced to establish
the borders of 1759". Also, I'm pretty sure that, as today, a number of people who belonged to the
liberal wing of the political spectrum of the time were far-right when it came to native issues.

I think the explanation why US congress today would never consider doing anything other than
fully backing Israel is simple: It is because Jews in the US for the most part have access to the
levers of white privilege, while Arabs for the most part don't.

CBGLuthier (10,178 posts)

1. I view it more like Texas
 
The Texans came in, declared the place theirs, fought everyone off and now want to build a fence to keep the original inhabitants from coming back. All while convincing the world they were noble and heroic in their actions.

But your analogy works too.
 

Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 04:44 PM

Star Member 2banon (3,385 posts)

5. Sure, Texas too. essentially, the same principles apply to both..
 

 

Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 04:38 PM

alcibiades_mystery (30,269 posts)

2. We do have massive archives of 18th and 19th century writing
 
for you to test your hypothesis.

Just sayin'.

Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 04:39 PM

redgreenandblue (1,202 posts)

3. I'd love to research it...

If only I had the time

Sure you would but you have beer to drink and Cheetos to buy, and miles to go before you sleep.

Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 04:43 PM

Star Member annabanana (46,611 posts)

4. interesting hypothesis
 
I hope someone runs with it, academically speaking.

Call academia we need some one with diarrhea of the mouth! 

Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 04:50 PM

archaic56 (4 posts)

6. you got it
 
The American people and the world do not realize, that what was done to our peoples, is now being done to all. It's all about money , power and control.It's the corporations against the rest of us. This am Robert Reich called our POTUS a : "Lame duck" Now, I don't know about you but in First Nations communities (Native Americans) kicking a man when he is down is not a nice thing to do.I like Reich but was horrified to see anyone on the left do this. GUess the right wing money used in the Divide and conquer games is working. Too bad you all didn't listen to our peoples way back. The world would be a better place.

A humble Tsalagi (Cherokee)

To the above poster ..you are dead on brother.Absolutely dead right.
True history of why we were annihilated is the same reason you all are going through hell.. MOney ..corporate money.

Might also be dead drunk, just sayin.

 
Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 05:10 PM

Star Member noiretextatique (23,302 posts)

7. it has always been the sos
 demonizing the other and claiming your brand of killing is holy and moral. 

[miskie]

When it comes to primitives, it is stupidity. Always.

[franksolich]

When it comes to primitives, it is stupidity. Always.

The primitives need to study the history of.....the whole entire world.

What happened here, what happened in Texas, was nothing, compared with some of the primitives' favorite places.

[zeitgeist]

The primitives need to study the history of.....the whole entire world.

What happened here, what happened in Texas, was nothing, compared with some of the primitives' favorite places.

While I know they are the self professed best and brightest to ever inhabit the planet Coach, I am just not that sure they have the capacity to understand even if they did (study history).  I am going with Miskie.  It does pain me to think this way.  My hope has always been that it was just a lack of application, coupled with incompetent public educators. It may just be a lack of raw material all the way around.   

Something along the line of the Dunning Kruger effect maybe?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
eta: link

[FlippyDoo]

Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 04:43 PM

Star Member annabanana (46,611 posts)

4. interesting hypothesis
 
I hope someone runs with it, academically speaking.

A trained hysterian will be back on the scenes in a few days. I'm sure she'll get it all straightened out for you.  She can tell you everything there is to know about Mexicans, Texans, Indians, Arabs, Israelis, Alpha Centurians, and the list goes on.

[lastparker]

Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jul 21, 2014, 04:43 PM

Star Member annabanana (46,611 posts)

4. interesting hypothesis
 
I hope someone runs with it, academically speaking.

Yes, nobody has ever "run with" this topic before, ever. Christ, but they're STUPID.

[Maxiest]

Wonder if they know we actually fought all the way to and captured Mexico city?  Wonder if they know we paid Mexico for the territory?  No because they are ignorant.

[Dori]

What do they consider indigenous?  How far back do they want to go?  Everyone came from somewhere else originally.

[obumazombie]

What do they consider indigenous?  How far back do they want to go?  Everyone came from somewhere else originally.

Not only that, but you can't get there from here.

[vesta111]

Wonder if they know we actually fought all the way to and captured Mexico city?  Wonder if they know we paid Mexico for the territory?  No because they are ignorant.

NO, they do not know as they are too young to have a living Grand Dad that went to the border and recount his history as a young man.

I was very lucky to have had grandparents that lived a good long life.   MY mothers father went to the Border to be stationed in Deming ,NM. 

As an American born child of parents American born  of French Canadians,  he was always the first one to jump up, tell a story, sing a song and play the piano. His roots were in Canada with family that did not come south.

His story's were about the wild West and the war, I did not as a kid think too much about them, [ He I thought had been watching too many westerns on TV. ]

 Late 50's he went into a hospital for some reason and I as a kid went over to speak with him.   He was complaining about the back of his neck so I rubbed his neck to find something that moved under the skin.

He the told me he had been shot across the border in a bar fight and that one piece of shot had been with him for 40 years. 

So I asked his wife my grandma and she told me she was married to him when this took place.  Conformation from a living witness -priceless.

WW1 was a crazy time for both country's,  Mexico, America and over seas, Horrid time in Europe and many more men were sent home from Europe with diseases and they had no help from our government.   

The war in Mexico was a bitch, but there were no gas attacks and  if one survived  being a straight shooter, they came home to raise a family.

I do believe that war was won with the help of the  MOTERCYCLE  and the side car that could go faster then horses.

[Dori]

I was very lucky to have had grandparents that lived a good long life.   MY mothers father went to the Border to be stationed in Deming ,NM. 

When I was working on my ancestry I found out my great grandfather was in the cavalry and was part of the army that tried to track down Geronimo.  You learn a lot of history when you dig into your ancestors.

[BlueStateSaint]

When I was working on my ancestry I found out my great grandfather was in the cavalry and was part of the army that tried to track down Geronimo.  You learn a lot of history when you dig into your ancestors.

I've got to do a search.  My FIL found out that he's almost directly descended from the commander of the Patriot forces at the Battle of Oriskany, after going on Ancestry.com . . .

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

redgreenandblue (1,202 posts)

I wasn't alive then...

You still aren't.

blah-blah-blah-dumbass-theory-blah-blah-blah

No mention of the fact that the Romans named Israel Palestine after the Philistines in order to ethnically cleanse the rebellious Hebrews. And no, the Philistines were NOT indigenous to Israel, they were a Mediterranean culture that emigrated to that land.

The Arabs took over "Palestine" during a period of Islamist imperialism (do try to remember, lurking Proglodytes, that imperialism is supposed to be bad).

The borders we have today may be the result of white, Western Europeans imposing lines but those lines resulted from the fact that the Ottoman EMPIRE threw its lot in with Kaiser Wilhem in WW1. Those lines were drawn to keep the various factions divided; from having the ability to consolidate power to re-emerge as an active empire.

The Arabs never identified as Palestinians -- even though they have as much of a cultural or ethnic relation to the Philistines as I have to ptarmigans -- until it became politically expediant to do so in the late 60's when the Left's intellectual patron -- the Soviet Union, was training and equipping every anti-Western Arab terrorist group to spill out of the toilet bowl.

The borders you're complaining about are the result of not one, not two but THREE wars instigated by Arabs (who are not Philistines) and subsequently lost by them.

Some people don't know when to quit losing.

CBGLuthier (10,178 posts)

1. I view it more like Texas
 
The Texans came in, declared the place theirs, fought everyone off and now want to build a fence to keep the original inhabitants from coming back. All while convincing the world they were noble and heroic in their actions.

Willful ignorance is stupidity.

Is this idiot seriously suggesting Hispanics are indigenous to Central and South America?

[ChuckJ]

You still aren't.




No mention of the fact that the Romans named Israel Palestine after the Philistines in order to ethnically cleanse the rebellious Hebrews. And no, the Philistines were NOT indigenous to Israel, they were a Mediterranean culture that emigrated to that land.

The Arabs took over "Palestine" during a period of Islamist imperialism (do try to remember, lurking Proglodytes, that imperialism is supposed to be bad).

The borders we have today may be the result of white, Western Europeans imposing lines but those lines resulted from the fact that the Ottoman EMPIRE threw its lot in with Kaiser Wilhem in WW1. Those lines were drawn to keep the various factions divided; from having the ability to consolidate power to re-emerge as an active empire.

The Arabs never identified as Palestinians -- even though they have as much of a cultural or ethnic relation to the Philistines as I have to ptarmigans -- until it became politically expediant to do so in the late 60's when the Left's intellectual patron -- the Soviet Union, was training and equipping every anti-Western Arab terrorist group to spill out of the toilet bowl.

The borders you're complaining about are the result of not one, not two but THREE wars instigated by Arabs (who are not Philistines) and subsequently lost by them.

Some people don't know when to quit losing.

Willful ignorance is stupidity.

Is this idiot seriously suggesting Hispanics are indigenous to Central and South America?

Correct me if I'm wrong. After the area was divided into a Jewish state AND an Arab state, Israel declared its independence. The surrounding muslim countries attacked in an effort to wipe Israel out. Israel defended themselves and fought the aggressors back. When the war was over Israel still held their Jewish state and only a portion of the Arab state. The remainder of the Arab state was absorbed by the surrounding muslim aggressors. The reason the Palestinians went so long without their own state falls completely at the feet of the surrounding muslim countries.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Correct me if I'm wrong. After the area was divided into a Jewish state AND an Arab state, Israel declared its independence. The surrounding muslim countries attacked in an effort to wipe Israel out. Israel defended themselves and fought the aggressors back. When the war was over Israel still held their Jewish state and only a portion of the Arab state. The remainder of the Arab state was absorbed by the surrounding muslim aggressors. The reason the Palestinians went so long without their own state falls completely at the feet of the surrounding muslim countries.

The Arabs who call themselves Philistines were run out of the other Arab nations for doing there what they do in Israel, i.e. Black September (but Israel is the only state not allowed to react).

[GOBUCKS]

How do they think the savage indian tribes laid claim to their hunting grounds?

By peaceful coexistence with all the other savage tribes?

Problem is, when civilized people showed up, the savages were too stupid and primitive to survive.

The DUmmies and the indian drunks need to protest Darwin, not America.

[Dori]

How do they think the savage indian tribes laid claim to their hunting grounds?

By peaceful coexistence with all the other savage tribes?

Problem is, when civilized people showed up, the savages were too stupid and primitive to survive.

The DUmmies and the indian drunks need to protest Darwin, not America.

I did some extensive reading on first hand reports of encounters with Indians.  While there were some positive findings in some tribes, there were an awful lot of renegade savages.  I came to the conclusion that besides being blood thirsty, there had to have been an element of too much inbreeding.

So much so, that even their own tribes threw them out, or they couldn't conform to their tribe's rules/traditions.

[landofconfusion80]

I did some extensive reading on first hand reports of encounters with Indians.  While there were some positive findings in some tribes, there were an awful lot of renegade savages. I came to the conclusion that besides being blood thirsty, there had to have been an element of too much inbreeding.

So much so, that even their own tribes threw them out, or they couldn't conform to their tribe's rules/traditions.

If only they had their own form of DU. Then they could self-diagnose their problems and blame the indians with the extra large teepees for their misfortunes.

[98ZJUSMC]

When it comes to primitives, it is stupidity. Always.

It is, but there is a whole metric sh*tload of willful ignorance.  You have to purposely ignore, thence cherrypick, history (Zinn) to reach those conclusions, which are not new for the left by any means.  One of the many "things" that the primitives don't understand is that all the remaining "original inhabitants" wanted statehood and nothing at all to do with a dysfunctional, corrupt Mexico.  Reconquista, is a completely fabricated lie (duh).   

As usual.

The primitives need to study the history of.....the whole entire world.

From scratch.