primitives discuss being fat

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025250330

Oh my.

The primitive comments are pretty long, but interesting and worth reading nonetheless.

<<<but was disappointed and various women's-libbers who need not be named, didn't check in.

Silent3 (7,866 posts)    Thu Jul 17, 2014, 12:07 AM

Even though I've been obese, I'm not sure what counts as "fat shaming"...

...when other people talk about that.

I'm no stranger to shaming and humiliation in general. I was nerdy, non-athletic, and socially awkward as a boy. My peers made my life hell for that. I was taunted and bullied. I was picked last, often dead last, for teams in gym. My friends were few, and I never dated until after high school. My childhood and teen years are not fond memories to say the least.
 
But weight at least wasn't an issue in my youth. I was called "faggot" a lot, but never "fatso".
 
Weight crept up on me in my twenties, until I hit around 245 lbs on my 6' frame. I started eating better and exercising, kept fit and trim for a bit over seven years during my thirties, then fell off the wagon, slowly building up to a new high of 263 about two and a half years ago, when I once again attacked the problem. Now I've been under 200 for over a year and a half, and at or near 178 for over a year.
 
Suffice to say I've spent a fair number of my adult years being overweight or obese even though I'm currently slim.
 
Of course, I'm sure adult males get the least flack for excess weight of any group. I was harder on myself for letting myself go than anyone else ever was. Probably the most shaming thing I recall experiencing about my weight wasn't from anyone being personally insulting to me: I'd gotten a ticket for indoor skydiving for my birthday. When I went to try it out, it turned out there was a weight limit of 250 lbs, and they made me get on a scale which, to my surprise and embarrassment, showed that at the time I'd gone just a bit over their limit. Since I was only a couple of pounds over they let me continue anyway, but the reason for the limit became clear when I found it was hard for the vertical wind tunnel to get me more than a few feet above the ground.
 
On the more personally directed side of things, the only thing that stands out in my mind were a few unsolicited comments from my father, which he made from the perspective of someone who'd battled weight himself, in the manner of offering friendly advice. On other issues my father could be incredibly nagging, but on this he was pretty low key.
 
So for other people, what is it that hits your as shaming? Except for those few on DU who still might be young enough to be in high school, I don't imagine many of you who are overweight deal with flat-out open bullying and taunting -- although perhaps you'll surprise me in that regard, having a very different adult experience than mine.
 
Perhaps you experience "fat shaming" in the form of comments from friends and family, people offering unsolicited advice or criticism? Either thinking they're genuinely being helpful, but failing, or perhaps only putting on a mask of helpfulness while just being insulting or condescending?
 
Maybe it's comments and/or reactions from strangers, perhaps not made directly to you, but you notice them anyway?
 
Is some of what's being called "shaming" general cultural attitudes toward excess weight, how being fat is depicted in movies and TV, how it's talked about on talk shows, etc? Attitudes of people in clothing stores maybe, or just the attitude indirectly expressed by the available sizes of preferred clothing?
 
Perhaps part of it is the way that weight issues are discussed right here on DU? If so, what particular types of comments?
 
Would you count my own being hard on myself for being fat as "fat shaming", considering that an internalization of societal prejudices that I should have rejected?

Warpy (77,486 posts)    Thu Jul 17, 2014, 01:50 AM

1. While men can be fat shamed, it's never to the extent that women are

Strangers feel entitled to tell any overweight woman what she needs to do to make her body socially acceptable, entitled to comment on her body, her clothing, her food choices, and everything about her in a negative manner.
 
This is fat shaming. If you had ever experienced it, you'd know it.

Ms. Hindenberg has it all wrong; nobody, but nobody, ever made fun of her fat.

They did however make much fun of her being so ugly and hate-filled.

laundry_queen (6,985 posts)    Thu Jul 17, 2014, 02:37 AM

2. My experience

I think of fat shaming as many of the things you mentioned. I also think that it's a bigger issue for women instead of men. I think women deal with it from a very early age as compared with men.
 
Growing up, my mom started commenting on my 'big belly' when I was 4. My dad was overweight at the time (but not obese) and my mom hounded him constantly about his beer belly. My mom told me with my dad's genes, I was going to end up fat with a big belly (she later took him to a medical diet center where he got slim on 600 cals/day and then she monitored his food - still does - although he has gained some back). Growing up, the shameful comments were constant. When I ate too much I was shamed. When I was hungry I was ridiculed (conversely and confusingly, if I was full but didn't finish everything on my plate, I was forced to sit there and finish it).
 
I think it's important to note that at this point, I was a normal weight for my age...maybe a bit above average but I was never, ever fat. I was a normal kid that wore normal kid sizes. I was solid and not at all petite, but I was muscular and athletic.
 
As a pre-teen and teen, my mom was constantly monitoring my food intake. My mom was super petite and thin - she had problems finding sizes small enough to fit her upper body - and would tease me when I started to wear clothing larger than her size (I was about 12-13 at the time). She told me I had 'football shoulders' and whenever I went to wear a tank top, she would say that I "shouldn't be wearing those with your shoulders".
 
Interestingly enough, even though up to that point, I had never been overweight, my brother had been. By age 10 he had really put on a lot of weight. My parents bragged, "He's such a big boy! So solid!" so you can see the difference in how a boy vs girl was treated with regards to weight. Eventually, when he hit his growth spurt, he slimmed out but has had weight problems off and on as an adult (he is severely hypothyroid).
 
My parents fat shamed in many indirect ways. They would criticize runway models on tv (they would watch fashion tv just to do this). "She's got a gut. That one has a flabby ass. Look at the one in yellow - I've never seen a model with cankles!" And on and on. Obese neighbours were ripe for ridicule behind their back, "How could anyone let themselves get like that! He's just GROSS! Ugh, I can't stand to look at him! How could you even get in bed with THAT." or even slightly overweight moms were subject to the same treatment, "Ugh, how can her husband even love her! Look at her, how ugly and chubby she is! Her body has no shape, it's like straight up and down with boobs and bulges! What the heck does her husband SEE in her? He's a good looking guy, he could do so much better!"
 
No one was immune from these comments that my parents freely let rip around my brother and I. It becomes something you internalize. Heck, I even believed it at the time and probably had the same thoughts, "Ew, that person is fat!" Some of my friends were the same way as my parents were. "Ooo, did you notice Lori has gained weight? We went swimming last week and I could see her cellulite, ew!"
 
Then around 14-15 I started to have problems keeping my weight down. I had symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome even then, but no doctors caught it. I started to skip meals and exercise compulsively. I was on quite a few sports teams, even took phys ed as an elective when it was no longer required, exercised morning and night, walked everywhere, lifted weights...I ended up with quite a few overuse injuries from all the sports. Anyhow, my mother noticed my weight gain and started taking me to different weight loss places. It didn't really work out because I had no support at home. My mom refused to help me out other than to pay for the weekly meetings, so I cooked/made and ate my own special meals in seclusion. I was 16 at the time.
 
I basically stayed steady by continuing to exercise compulsively (easily 2+hours/day, plus I had a very physical p/t job) and skipping meals, then binging off and on. I was never fat or even overweight by more than a few pounds this whole time. My clothing size was a 10 for the top and 8 for the bottoms.
 
At 19 I met my now-ex husband. We moved in together. One of the first things he said to me was that he didn't want to hear about how much calories or fat grams my food had, or how many minutes I had done aerobics or how many reps of weights I had done that day. He said he wanted me to enjoy my food and stop obsessing about my weight.
 
So I did and over the course of our first year I gained 30 lbs. Then I got pregnant and gained more. And with every pregnancy I gained more. Until after baby #4 I was obese. During this time, I wasn't concerned with what my parents thought because I thought my ex was fine with it (he insisted till the day we split up that my weight was totally fine with him). I did diet during this time and I'd lose a few pounds here and there. But nothing that stuck. At one point I was exercising 2+ hours a day, like when I was a teen and making an effort to eat healthy and over 6 months I barely lost 10 lbs. My ex said, "holy shit, I feel sorry for you! When I want to lose 10 lbs I go to hockey once a week and 2 weeks later, bam, 10 lbs gone"
 
Anyhow, I'm kind of babbling here, but here are some ways I notice the shaming now that I'm an adult.
 
I notice now that when I go into restaurants, especially fast food ones (which is rare anyway) I get 'looks' if I don't get a salad. I even saw one thin woman shaking her head at me when I ordered a burger and fries once.
 
Many doctors that I go to blame everything on my weight. It would take me all night to type every single instance out (I actually started and 10 min in I had to stop, LOL). Basically, every illness, every ache and pain, even any issue in my 4 pregnancies (my first C-section was CAUSED because of a fat phobic doctor), weight was mentioned as the cause. Thankfully I currently have a doctor that never mentions it when I come in.
 
When you go for walks with people - now I'm not currently in the greatest of shape and I realize that, but I do have complicating factors that, even when I AM thin and in shape, leave me far behind other people (I have asthma and knee and foot issues). Even when these people are friends and family and I am walking with them, if I can't keep up, they never wait. They keep going. They leave me in the dust. I've had so many people do this to me, I can't help but think it's not just that I have crappy friends and family, lol. I had one cousin once that was nice and felt bad and stayed back with me, and I thanked her specifically for doing that because it's so rare. These aren't 'exercise' walks either, they are casual strolls!
 
People often let some rude comment about fat people slip out, then they realize you are there with them, and so they pretend they didn't say it and they change the subject. One of the ones I hear most is, "They're so fat and lazy!" A stereotype that persists. Or another one for women, "She shouldn't be wearing that." If she's fat and isn't wearing a suit or a tent-like dress people think it's gross and will say so. Last time I called out someone for saying that, they told me not to get insulted because I wouldn't wear something like that. So what? You shouldn't shame a fat girl for wearing something you would be okay with a thinner girl wearing.
 
And then, as you said, about TV. All the weight loss reality shows where they starve people, push them to exercise until they break down in tears or exhaustion and humiliate them. It's ok to humiliate fat people on tv. Other people, not as much.
 
All fat women in movies are either abusive, a comedian, nerdy or batshit crazy. No glamorous fat women anywhere (that I've seen and I don't watch movies all that much so I could be wrong). Sometimes it's the same with fat men too. They are funny or dopey. But there are a few movies, like mob movies, where it's okay to be fat and a sex symbol for guys.
 
This one isn't really fat shaming - it's someone who grew up in a fat shaming world and didn't know any different. She's a friend of mine but is much younger (I went back to school at age 34) and she would sit with me at lunch. She always remarked incredulously. "You eat so healthy. You always pack nothing but veggies for lunch. I don't think I've ever seen anyone have as healthy lunches as you do." People think if you are fat, you must eat crap all day long. If you don't, they are shocked. If you do eat a bag of chips or something, then they give you the fast-food 'look' aforementioned. lose-lose here.
 
Recently, the mom of my daughter's friend and I were talking about weight - she's a nurse and very thin. We were talking about protecting our daughters from body issues and it morphed into a discussion of how awful my parents were. Then I explained to her my story about how I 'got fat' and how I viewed my body as a teen and the different ways I've tried to get healthy. She said, "So see, you HAVE tried, at least." Like, if I hadn't tried, it would be a moral failing or something. It was a weird statement.
 
These are all pretty subtle but my parents are not subtle at all. They shamed and insulted me constantly until I told them it wasn't up for discussion. I walk away now. And I have obese friends who have had some not-so-subtle comments IRL when they grocery shop or eat at a restaurant. I think the issue is that it's constant. It's not like it happens once in awhile - it's everywhere if you are obese. I live in a rich town full of slim, judgmental soccer moms and I definitely feel it here in a way I didn't feel it in my previous town (a more rural town with a larger variety of incomes and body sizes).
 
I'm sorry this is so long. I could probably write a book on my experiences both as an obese woman and a thin(ish) teen.

Silent3 (7,866 posts)   Thu Jul 17, 2014, 11:35 AM

3. I was actually surprised that my own doctors didn't mention my weight...

...very often. I figure that maybe they'd just gotten tired of giving diet and exercise advise that was seldom followed by many of their patients. Then again, except for occasional slightly elevated blood pressure and running a bit high on triglycerides on one blood test once, I was still reasonably healthy, so maybe they didn't feel as motivated to bring up my weight as they might with other patients.
 
One time when I weighed around 235, but my blood pressure was OK and nothing was amiss in my blood work, a doctor actually said to me, "Aside from maybe losing a few pounds, you're in good shape. Whatever you're doing, keep it up!" I had to wonder what the hell his standards for "in good shape" were. Even putting weight aside, I couldn't have run a quarter mile at that time in my life without collapsing into a gasping heap.
 
My own experiences have made me more sympathetic in some ways with other people's weight issues, but (although I keep it to myself) more judgmental in others. I attribute my own being overweight to... yep, being lazy and making bad food choices. While I'm sure there are people out there with metabolic issues that make weight loss difficult, I've witnessed my own rationalizing behaviors, and become more aware of those same behaviors in others, which leads me to believe there are far more people claiming metabolic problems than actually have them, with far more overweight people suffering from fooling themselves about how much they're eating and how much exercise they're doing -- or, and of course this is their own business, simply not giving a damn.
 
As a visual aesthetic, as a matter of what I find attractive, I must say I prefer slimness. As long as I'm not making mean and catty remarks about what I don't find appealing, I see this as a matter of personal taste, not something I'm obligated to try to reprogram myself about out of some kind of obligation to deeply internalize political correctness.
 
I can simultaneously believe it's totally someone else's business what they wear on the one hand, while on the other hand thinking that a person has made a poor choice, whether it's due to poor taste, poor understanding of how they look to others, or a degree of don't-give-a-shit that's difficult for me to fathom.
 
Where my sympathies are strongest is in understanding how hard it can be to make the time for exercise -- I have time advantages with a very short commute, a gym at work, and no kids demanding my time that I realize many people don't enjoy. It only took a new long commute for me to fall off the fitness wagon once before, and I didn't get back on again until long after I'd gone back to a short commute again.
 
If you can't exercise much because the time is hard to find, I sympathize a lot with not being able to tolerate the meager portions of food needed to stay within a low-activity calorie budget.

[Wineslob]

No pity.

[RobJohnson]

I like fat titties

[franksolich]

I like fat titties

I like things properly in proportion.

[Carl]

But weight at least wasn't an issue in my youth. I was called "faggot" a lot, but never "fatso".

So for other people, what is it that hits your as shaming? Except for those few on DU who still might be young enough to be in high school, I don't imagine many of you who are overweight deal with flat-out open bullying and taunting

I think we know what he aiming for...let the PMs begin.

[GOBUCKS]

These tubby DUmmies should just adopt the nadin solution.

Whenever the nutcase packs another twenty or thirty pounds onto her four foot seven (big-boned) frame, she simply "resets" her ideal weight to the new number.

Though she resembles a pumpkin on a popsicle stick, she's assured us repeatedly that she and her doctor agree she's at her ideal weight.

[thundley4]

I don't know of anyone that would tell a woman she needs to lose weight except another woman.

[Wineslob]

I like fat titties

 

[HawkHogan]

Does the obese Dummy realize that most of her problems are caused by being obese?  The doctor isn't fat shaming you, he's telling the truth.

P.s. Stop eating Big Macs you selfish POS, your four kids will be without a mother. 

[DumbAss Tanker]

D. MoooOOOoooooOOooooOOOOoooo.

[landofconfusion80]

Does the obese Dummy realize that most of her problems are caused by being obese?  The doctor isn't fat shaming you, he's telling the truth.

P.s. Stop eating Big Macs you selfish POS, your four kids will be without a mother.

would that really be such a bad thing? These kids might actually stand a chance  of turning their lives around without that influence

[Karin]

Wow!  What is it about the subject of fat that makes the DUmmies so long-winded?  Why do they feel that anybody's going to take the time to read a whiny, self-pitying 500 page rant? 

 I don't know who Warpy hangs around with, but civilized people don't feel "entitled" to march up to any woman and tell her what she needs to do about her body.  This doesn't happen in my circles. 

[franksolich]

I don't know who Warpy hangs around with, but civilized people don't feel "entitled" to march up to any woman and tell her what she needs to do about her body.

Not if one wants to remain conscious and breathing, one doesn't.

[obumazombie]

When libs start babbling, my attention wanes quickly.

[I_B_Perky]

I don't know of anyone that would tell a woman she needs to lose weight except another woman.

I did. Once. Only once. Ma Perky did not raise a complete dumbass... she did raise a part time one though!   

Not if one wants to remain conscious and breathing, one doesn't.

Yep. I learned that the hard way.   

[seahorse513]

These tubby DUmmies should just adopt the nadin solution.

Whenever the nutcase packs another twenty or thirty pounds onto her four foot seven (big-boned) frame, she simply "resets" her ideal weight to the new number.

Though she resembles a pumpkin on a popsicle stick, she's assured us repeatedly that she and her doctor agree she's at her ideal weight.

How do you know she is 4'7"?

[Big Dog]

How do you know she is 4'7"?

From the angle of the sun and the length of her shadow.

= 4'-7", or 2mm (Mexican meters)

I wish I didn't know this shit.

[seahorse513]

From the angle of the sun and the length of her shadow.

= 4'-7", or 2mm (Mexican meters)

I wish I didn't know this shit.

well I am 4 foot 7 myself, thankfully I don't look anything like her....

[DumbAss Tanker]

well I am 4 foot 7 myself, thankfully I don't look anything like her....

Almost nothing else in the animal kingdom does, really.

[JohnnyReb]

WHAT????? DUmmies aren't the perfect example of the perfect body and healthy living through chemistry?

[seahorse513]

From the angle of the sun and the length of her shadow.

= 4'-7", or 2mm (Mexican meters)

I wish I didn't know this shit.

you are so smaht!!

[RobJohnson]

 

 

[Gina]

laundry_queen (6,985 posts)    Thu Jul 17, 2014, 02:37 AM


Many doctors that I go to blame everything on my weight. It would take me all night to type every single instance out (I actually started and 10 min in I had to stop, LOL). Basically, every illness, every ache and pain, even any issue in my 4 pregnancies (my first C-section was CAUSED because of a fat phobic doctor), weight was mentioned as the cause. Thankfully I currently have a doctor that never mentions it when I come in.
 
When you go for walks with people - now I'm not currently in the greatest of shape and I realize that, but I do have complicating factors that, even when I AM thin and in shape, leave me far behind other people (I have asthma and knee and foot issues).

I just looked up all your ailments and everyone of them can come from obesity

asthma http://www.everydayhealth.com/asthma/obesity-connection.aspx

aches & pains/knee/foot http://www.obesityaction.org/educational-resources/resource-articles-2/obesity-related-diseases/the-wear-and-tear-of-obesity-the-burden-of-weight-in-joint-disease

c sections http://www.parents.com/pregnancy/my-body/fitness/plus-size-and-pregnant/

I mean come on!!!!! take some credit for your health issues...........................

[Gina]

I like fat titties

[vesta111]

Have to be careful what a Doctor says to their patients up here in the North of everyone in America.

We had this old time Yankee Doctor in a town close by that pulled no punches when he spoke to his patients.  For this he at 65 years of age had to fight for his medical license.   

One patient sued him personally as she had been his patient since he delivered her.  Through the years he had been there for her.  Through the years as she matured the Doctor  had warned her about her weight and finally when she hit 180 pounds he in frustration told her that she needed to loose at least 60 pounds of fat or she would never find a white man to marry her----

Not in this neck of he woods, she would have to go South and look for a race of people that delighted in huge woman.

Her law suit hit the front page of the towns small paper and what a mess that was. 

Those of us that knew the Doctor and his ways laughed our butts off, YUP the only doctor north of Boston that tells it like it is and one can trust.

Others new to the community were outraged and had never know a Doctor for more then 2 visits much less been followed from birth to mid adult years and had the truth told to them.    Life in a small town can be interesting at times.

Doctors have a profession like others, your mechanic says you need oil or breaks changed, you have paid good money for the information and just ignore the problem ??

A Doctor looks at you and says " Ooh Nelly, you have to do something about the belly"

Do you agree, walk out and get into a car with no breaks and engine  blowing up from no oil ???