Author Topic: franksolich does business with a primitive  (Read 2095 times)

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Offline franksolich

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franksolich does business with a primitive
« on: March 20, 2014, 06:56:48 AM »
note: this is dedicated to the squalid arrogant elitist decadent gouty “DFW” primitive, he with the Teutonic hausfrau, who’s in this business--franksolich however will admit that it’s on the up-and-up, his business delivering exactly what’s promised, and at decent prices; yes, franksolich has purchased things from a primitive enterprise, but under another name and address, because I don’t want primitives to know what’s not their business to know--

Last evening, there came here an unexpected visitor, a guy from the big city who’s in his early 20s and who drinks like a fish……and looks it.  I’ve known him for about five years; I was once his boss.  His father has a really good job, and after the guy graduated from high school, attempted to get him on board with the same company, but he didn’t last long.

He doesn’t like to work.  I have no idea what he likes.

When he worked with me, he learned I’d once been a coin collector, and thereafter constantly queried me about the value of this coin and the value of that coin.  Any information I could give him was fragmentary and outdated at best, because I quit collecting coins a long time ago.

By my late 20s, I’d figured out I was obsessed with it, trying to fill up every slot in every coin-album, and trying to collect them all.  So I gave it up, keeping only an exceptional collection of pre-1861 English copper coins (farthings, half-pennies, pennies, two-pence) and Liberty Walking half-dollars (minted 1916-1947), both of which I liked for their aesthetic qualities.


He brought over a big box of coins, all mixed up.

I was dismayed; it was late at night, too little time to help him, whatever help he wanted.

He told me the source of his collection--his late grandfather--and it made sense.  They were kept in some sort of military (ammunition?) case, and there were a couple of military souvenirs from the second world war in there too (nothing exceptional).  Other stuff had been added to it, up to the late 1960s.

And some of it was junk; his grandfather had apparently belonged to some sort of “bill of the month” club, in which one was sent a foreign bank-note once a month.  Lots and lots of inflation marks from Germany 1921-1924, with their “zeros” and overstamps.  And those tiresome, tedious reprints (from the 1960s) of old Confederate currency.

But despite the junk, it was still a pretty good collection; for some reason it included a great many British half-crowns from the 1930s and 1940s, in excellent condition.  I guessed--and as it turned out, I was right--his grandfather had been in England during the second world war.  The coins were circulated, but just barely.


I told him I was interested in the half-crowns, but suggested that instead of coming to me, he take them to a professional coin-dealer in Sioux City or Omaha, to have them evaluated and even sell them.  As I’ve said, it was a pretty good collection, well worth his time and trouble.

He mentioned selling them on eBay, but I attempted to discourage him, because he doesn’t know a whole lot about them, and could get rooked.  Best that he deal one-on-one with a professional.

The additional problem here being that being a novice, he has the usual attitude that simply because something is “old,” it’s valuable.  The collection’s worth a nice amount of money, but I don’t think it’s worth anywhere near what he thinks it’s worth.

I told him to look up the values of the half-crowns, and get back to me on what he wanted for them; there’s a lot of them, again all in excellent condition, but not so many that I can’t afford to somewhat overpay for them, as a favor to him.

- - - - - - - - - -

There were silver, copper, and nickel pieces from just about every issue of American coinage since the Civil War 1861-1865, most of them in fine condition, but alas there was also a set of real dogs--a couple of rolls of Standing Liberty quarter-dollars (minted 1916-1930).


These were of course beautiful coins, but unfortunately they were designed in such a way so as to wear down very quickly.  I imagine there’s more of them in existence with the date worn off, than with the date still intact, just as with the Indian Head five-cent pieces 1913-1938.

And alas, there’s nothing one can do with coins with the date worn off.

- - - - - - - - - - -

There were rolls and rolls of mixed date-and-condition silver dollars (the real silver dollars), but to my disappointment, more than a quarter of them appeared to be 1921 Morgan dollars.


There were two sorts of silver dollars minted in 1921; the old Morgan dollar and the new Peace dollar.


Even back in the good old days, silver dollars were not popular as a medium of exchange; hundreds of millions were made, but usually they just sat in bags in banks or at the U.S. Treasury.  This is why it is so easy to find them in uncirculated condition, even back to the 1870s.

Once in a while, one encounters a Morgan dollar considerably worn flat; it’s not that way because it got around a lot, but rather because probably it was a high-school graduation present (a common tradition at the time), and carried in one’s pocket for the rest of one’s life.

The 1921 Morgan dollars are a particular drag, because s-o-o-o-o-o many of them were made, so as to satisfy the silver interests of Montana, Idaho, Nevada, and Utah during the early part of the last century.  To keep the silver mines in operation, the government was compelled to buy whatever silver was mined, as there wasn’t at the time much of a market for the metal anywhere else.

The government was reluctant to buy so much silver, as it pretty much usually had all the silver it needed, but Democrat U.S. Senators from the silver states, who had much seniority and power in Congress, compelled the treasury to mint them…..even though almost nobody wanted them.

- - - - - - - - - -

I’ve always been sentimentally attached to silver half-dollars, which to me have the weight and heft of real money, just like the old English copper one-penny pieces, about the size of our half-dollars.

My older brothers were newspaper-delivery boys when I was very small, and some of my earliest memories include bags of half-dollars dumped on the table once a week.  In those days, newspaper-delivery boys collected subscriptions every week, using metal ring on which was held several cardboard punch-cards, each date being punched as collection was made.

I’m not sure, but I suspect that maybe during the early 1960s, fifty cents was the “average” weekly cost of the newspapers, and hence why so many half-dollars.


But they were apparently used for much more than just that; I also have memories of my father emptying his pockets of spare change, and there were always at least two or three half-dollars in the clump.

- - - - - - - - - -

Half-dollars seem to have quickly gone out of favor during the mid-1960s, but it probably wasn’t necessarily due to people hoarding the then-new John Kennedy half-dollars.  In fact, in 1964 alone, the treasury minted more half-dollars--in one single year, remember--than it had minted the preceding 175 years all put together.

I blame it on the vending-machine industry.  Vending-machines had of course been around a long time, but it was during the mid-1960s that they really took off, and were found everywhere, selling every sort of item.

The philosophy then was that nothing sold in vending-machines would ever cost as much as fifty cents, and so such machines weren’t made to accommodate the big coins.

After which the half-dollar considerably disappeared from common ordinary everyday use, although the mints still produce hundreds of millions of them every year, simply because a few congressmen who feel sentimental about the long-ago president demand that they do it.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Skul

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 07:16:22 AM »
I still consider the Liberty Walking half, to be the most beautiful of all.
The St. Gauden's $20 only comes in at number three.
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 07:29:57 AM »
Nice of you to include the Nads' half-dollar, Frank. :tongue:
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

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Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 07:48:17 AM »
Nice of you to include the Nads' half-dollar, Frank. :tongue:

Actually, those would be a good investment, if one uses coins as an investment (I don't).

The nadin half-dollars were made from 1948 until 1963, a mere 15 years, and if memory serves me correctly, none of the dates are especially high-mintages, surpluses of the earlier Liberty Walking half-dollar having been enough to supply popular demand.

The nadin half-dollars were around when I was a child, but I recall the older Liberty Walking half-dollars as being more common.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2014, 07:56:52 AM »
This is the Augustus Saint-Gaudens gold twenty dollars, to which Skul referred.


It's generally considered the most aesthetic American coin, but I never paid much attention to it.

Gold didn't turn me on; silver did.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2014, 08:11:21 AM »
To me, the allure of pre-1861 English copper coinage was not only the massive size of the pieces, but also that they were made from soft copper, which made them wear, dent, and scratch very quickly.

It's difficult to find such pieces that aren't.

All of mine--from George III, George IV, William IV, and Victoria--however are "excellent" or better, in grading, like this penny:


Beginning in 1861, the Royal Mint downsized the coinage and added another metal (I forget what--it's been so long since I paid attention) so that coins were harder, and wouldn't wear so quickly.

Note to primitives stalking franksolich: the coins are kept in a bank safe-deposit box, not here.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 08:13:54 AM by franksolich »
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2014, 08:35:44 AM »
Actually, those would be a good investment, if one uses coins as an investment (I don't).

The nadin half-dollars were made from 1948 until 1963, a mere 15 years, and if memory serves me correctly, none of the dates are especially high-mintages, surpluses of the earlier Liberty Walking half-dollar having been enough to supply popular demand.

The nadin half-dollars were around when I was a child, but I recall the older Liberty Walking half-dollars as being more common.

I've actually got a few around.  For some reason, they don't say 'PLONK' on them . . . :tongue:
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
Chase her even when she's yours.
That's the only way you'll be assured to never lose her.

Offline Skul

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2014, 08:40:44 AM »
I've actually got a few around.  For some reason, they don't say 'PLONK' on them . . . :tongue:
It's on the other side. Turn it over.
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 01:04:30 PM »
Well, what the Hell.

I had no idea the DFW primitive, a good pal of the late Helen Thomas and the still-here Bob Schieffer, back-patter of the 0bamessiah, sometime contributor to the Nation magazine, kept his occupation secret from the primitives.  I thought this was already general knowledge on Skins's island.

Apparently not; this is from the DFW primitive's "happy birthday to me" thread in the Lounge there.

Quote
DFW (15,054 posts)    Wed Mar 19, 2014, 12:19 AM

14. Well, no and yes.

I can't get into detail about exactly what I do on here, but yes, we are hiring. We probably take on 10-15 new people a year worldwide, and there are only 400 of us to begin with.
 
Are you fluent in any languages other than English and Spanish, and do you live near Dallas or in Europe?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018590417

If I spilled beans that shouldn't have been spilled, sorry, big guy.....
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline BattleHymn

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 07:17:42 PM »
This is the Augustus Saint-Gaudens gold twenty dollars, to which Skul referred.

It's generally considered the most aesthetic American coin, but I never paid much attention to it.

Gold didn't turn me on; silver did.

I have never cared for the profile used on the obverse of the double eagle, and I also think the reverse looks unbalanced.  The $10 eagle, I feel, is an aesthetically superior coin, both obverse and reverse.

My favorite coin of all is the Walking Liberty Half.  It's been my favorite ever since I was a small child when my father gave me one that became the first coin I "collected".  They feel great in the hand, and Lady Liberty draped in a flag is just spectacular to look at.  I also collect silver bullion dollars, for reasons that will be obvious when you compare the obverse to them against that of the Walking Half:



Behind the Walking Half, it's a tie for me between the Peace and Morgan dollars.

My father amassed a sizable collection of Morgan dollars in 1959-60 when he was working under a bank auditor in Pennsylvania.  The bank would bring in five or six bags of Morgan dollars, each containing 500 or 1,000 coins (I can't remember what he told me) during Christmastime for people to buy at face value and give as graduation gifts or Christmas presents.  My father remembers breaking open the lead seals that contained a cardboard placard with the date they were sealed at the Mint.  He would go through and pick out the choicest specimens with the least amount of bag marks to purchase for himself.  


Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 08:00:11 PM »
My father amassed a sizable collection of Morgan dollars in 1959-60 when he was working under a bank auditor in Pennsylvania.  The bank would bring in five or six bags of Morgan dollars, each containing 500 or 1,000 coins (I can't remember what he told me) during Christmastime for people to buy at face value and give as graduation gifts or Christmas presents.  My father remembers breaking open the lead seals that contained a cardboard placard with the date they were sealed at the Mint.  He would go through and pick out the choicest specimens with the least amount of bag marks to purchase for himself.

That was probably about the time the treasury decided to replace silver certificates with Federal Reserve Notes.


Silver certificates bore the notation "one dollar in silver" (as on the illustration above) or "one silver dollar," and the notes could be exchanged at a bank for that.  At the time, one dollar in silver, and one American silver dollar coincidentally was the same weight in silver, which was then $1.29 an ounce.

The treasury had hundreds of millions of silver dollars, and wished to be rid of them.

Sometime late in the presidency of Lyndon Johnson--say 1967 or 1968--the price of silver took a sudden rise, and it looked as if it was going to continue rising.  So there was suddenly a hot demand for the older silver certificates, and banks actually had people standing in long lines waiting to redeem them for silver.

(One couldn't redeem the newer Federal Reserve notes [green seal, rather than blue] for silver; one could redeem only the older silver certificates for silver.)

I was a kid; I wasn't paying much attention, but I was paying some attention.

I recall advertisements in the Omaha World-Herald offering $1.25, $1.50, for $1 silver certificates.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline ChuckJ

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 08:29:57 PM »
I've got a silver certificate around here somewhere. I never noticed if it has a blue or green seal. I come upon it somehow about 25 years ago and just held onto it because it was different.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2014, 08:43:42 PM »
I also collect silver bullion dollars.....

I was never into collectibles, and in fact I've never owned a bullion, proof, or uncirculated coin in my life.

For me, it didn't mean anything unless it'd actually been used as a coin.

However, on the other hand, I liked coins to look nice--and so most of the coins I collected ranged from "extremely fine" to "almost uncirculated."  They'd been used as coins, but were still pretty nice.  The lowest grade I collected was "very fine," and there weren't many of those.

I learned early on I had no talents when it come to looking at coins as an investment (and hence collected them only because I liked them)--sometime circa the early 1970s, when I was 13, 14, years old, and bought a 1950 British penny and a 1951 British penny for $40 each.


Why those?  Only 240,000 in 1950 and 120,000 in 1951 had been minted; they were (and really are) a rarity.

For a country with 50,000,000 people, and the colonies that also used British coinage, those were low, extremely low, mintages.  One thousand pounds sterling in 1950, five hundred in 1951 (I'm sure you know how it went: four farthings to the penny, twelve pennies to the shilling, five shillings to the crown, four crowns to the pound, and twenty-one shillings to the guinea--a system everybody but primitives could easily figure out).

To top it off, most of these pennies, in cloth bags, were used as door-stops for banks in Bermuda, until they were finally returned to the Royal Mint for melting down and re-use.  Already extremely rare, they became even more rare.

It was a good thing I was wearing brown pants when the dealer (who didn't like dealing in foreign coins, and so tried moving them out of there as quickly as possible) stated the prices.

Since only a few thousand of each still existed any more, I thought for sure I'd have a comfortable retirement fifty years hence all but assured.

It never happened, and to this day I have no idea why.  These were extreme rarities.

I later traded my complete collection of English pennies 1902-1967 for something else, but then sometime in the early 1990s, I checked.  Those two pennies were still selling for circa $40 each, which meant their value hadn't even kept up with inflation.

I traded them for some of these:



apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2014, 08:46:43 PM »
I've got a silver certificate around here somewhere. I never noticed if it has a blue or green seal. I come upon it somehow about 25 years ago and just held onto it because it was different.

There were also red seals, "United States Note," but they were discontinued during the late 1950s, early 1960s, along with the silver certificates.  I have no idea their purpose.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline BattleHymn

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2014, 09:45:08 PM »
I traded them for some of these:

The reverse of those reminds me of the British Trade Dollar, whose obverse is one of my favorites.  Have you ever been in possession of any of these?




Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2014, 04:56:44 AM »
The reverse of those reminds me of the British Trade Dollar, whose obverse is one of my favorites.  Have you ever been in possession of any of these?

I never got into ephemera in coin-collecting, sticking with just the basic ordinary denominations--as God knows, there were plenty of those as it was, and given my obsession with filling in every slot, it was a good thing I never did.

No commemorative coins, no trade dollars, for example.

For those who don't know, a "trade dollar" is a coin whose value is based simply upon the silver content, not any stated denomination.  They were, and are, made for the purpose of commerce in places where the coinage was, or is, highly suspect or even non-existent.

We're talking the Far East, the Near East, and Africa here.

They had to be good, unquestionable, so as to have credibility among illiterate and naive people.

The first was the Maria Theresa thaler from Austria, specifically dated 1780.  They were made before then, but after the 1780 issue was minted, it became the general standard throughout Africa and the Near East.  Because of the illiteracy and ignorance of those who used it, they always had to be dated 1780.  They're still made today, and they're all still dated 1780.


Such coins were usually slightly larger than an American (old) silver dollar.

Next to the Maria Theresa thaler, the British trade dollar was the most recognized, and wider-spread, in this case reaching to the Far East too.

The silver Mexican peso was also popular in the Far East--probably one of the very few times a Mexican product was trusted.

During the later part of the 19th century, to compete with the silver Mexican peso in the Far East, the American trade dollar was created, but it lasted only about ten years, unable to compete with the better-known thaler, British dollar, and Mexican peso.


It was an honest coin of honest weight, but people stuck with what they knew.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Skul

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2014, 05:49:43 AM »
Don't forget this rather interesting note.
There were 5,10 and 20 dollar notes, also.
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline franksolich

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Re: franksolich does business with a primitive
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2014, 06:33:25 AM »

Yeah.  The "Hawaii" notes of the second world war.

Because there was fear that the Japanese could, and would, invade and conquer the Hawaiian islands, which of course meant its wealth too, the treasury made these bills so that if that unhappy event were to occur, the currency could be immediately declared worthless, and the Japanese couldn't use it to buy American goods through other countries.

They were legal tender in the then-48 states and the then-territory of Alaska too.
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."