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Offline franksolich

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the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« on: February 22, 2014, 05:26:01 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024546888

Oh my.

First up, Mr. Goody-Two-Shoes:

Quote
Pretzel_Warrior (7,160 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 02:50 PM

Let's get a pro Ukrainian freedom post to the greatest page. Kieve LIVE UPDATES

This site is supposed to be about popular grass roots support of egalitarian democracy and against corporate money destroying economic order, but not one of the recent developments in Ukraine has drawn enough interest/support from DU to make it to the DU Greatest page. I find that odd.

<

<

<

after which some rah-rah-rah for the new "democratic" leaders in Ukraine

<

<

<

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cali (91,565 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:25 PM

6. I hope things work out, but it's not nearly as rah rah simple as YOU

assert. Not according to most experts.

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Pretzel_Warrior (7,160 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:27 PM

7. so you think a de facto dictatorship aligning with Russia and presenting stability

and sacrifice of freedom would have been the way to go?

Quote
Pretzel_Warrior (7,160 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:31 PM

11. and that point would be? refrain from supporting popular protest when

you don't agree with the popular protesters' message?

lol.

I am also happy to see the people revolting against the incompetent leadership of Maduro in Venezuela as well.

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cali (91,565 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 05:35 PM

25. that point would be that whitewashing one side or the other is dishonest and

despicable.

and yeah, I don't agree with anti-semitic right wing ****wads.

You kind of just said that it's fine and dandy with you as long as it's "popular". ****. that's just.....

Quote
cali (91,565 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:38 PM

13. there is corruption and deep crap on both sides..

that's just fact. period.

Unless you actually want to claim that Svoboda is just a nice cuddly group of folks. And don't bother with they're insignificant. they are not. they are the 4th largest holder of seats in Parliament.
 
How about the rampant anti-semitism? You down with that?

<snip>

The leader of Svoboda, Oleh Tyahnybok, who has appeared at the Kiev protests, has a long history of making inflammatory anti-Semitic statements, including the accusation during a 2004 speech before parliament that Ukraine is controlled by a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.” Miroshnychenko also called the Ukrainian-born American film actress Mila Kunis a “dirty Jewess.”
 
<snip>

http://www.ibtimes.com/euromaidan-dark-shadows-far-right-ukraine-protests-1556654
 
I didn't support the status quo and I hope things get better for the people of Ukraine, but I really have contempt for people who whitewash reality.
 
Shameful.

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Pretzel_Warrior (7,160 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 05:30 PM

23. I'm aware of all that. The recent path was untenable and

There is a strong possibility a unity government can be formed to deal with the corruption and the nation's deep fiscal problems.

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cali (91,565 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 05:32 PM

24. just pointing out the facts sir. it's nice you're so sure.

experts aren't nearly as sure as the likes of you.

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Pretzel_Warrior (7,160 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:32 PM

12. wow. this place is nuts. Maybe that is why most Americans didn't support OWS

they saw unbathed layabouts and nothing worthy of unquestioning support.

A lot of gall from "progressives" here being ok with the laws Ukraine passed banning protests and then the open execution of protesters in the square.

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cali (91,565 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:39 PM

15. not even close to being nuts to not take the word of YOU

and that's all it is. reserving judgment until you know more is actually the intelligent route.

If the bitter old Vermontese cali primitive were thirty years younger, one could reasonably suspect she's on the rag.

<<<gets the impression cali doesn't like the pretzel, who seems a nice enough guy.
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Offline dane

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 05:45:48 PM »
What they REALLY need is to find a trained historian, one who is able to discern trends, discover arcs, translate scripts, and generally tell them what they need to know.

Oh, if only they had such a member in the DU hive.

But wait....
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Online Carl

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 05:48:41 PM »
There is no "side" of Russia one can take that will be a good or right one.

Romney got scoffed at but he was right.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 10:50:00 PM »
Quote from: dane on February 22, 2014, 05:45:48 PM
What they REALLY need is to find a trained historian, one who is able to discern trends, discover arcs, translate scripts, and generally tell them what they need to know.

Oh, if only they had such a member in the DU hive.

But wait....
On assignment with the good rig covering local developments.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2014, 03:38:04 AM »
50 years of buying into the Liberal belied that there is no right or wrong...good and evil has shut cali's eyes to what's going on.

Either that or she's such a hard line communist herself she's simply  dismissing out of hand any possibility that Maduro or the guy in the Ukraine could be doing anything wrong.
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Offline jukin

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2014, 10:12:02 AM »
Quote
Pretzel_Warrior (7,160 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:27 PM

7. so you think a de facto dictatorship aligning with Russia progressive fascism and presenting stability

and sacrifice of freedom would have been the way to go?

The DUmp is all behind Obama and the democrat party doing that i the USA, why are they against it in the Ukraine?

Their unaware hypocrisy is delicious.
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Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2014, 10:42:54 AM »
I'm going to parrot someone, I forget who it was, Krauthamer maybe. but I think a little reality is a good thing.

Russia is/was prepared to give the Ukraine $15 billion in bailout money.

Russia is also their sole supplier of fossil fuels.

I think it was last night when Putin said "whatever" and is going to play this whole struggle for democracy thing off as a waste of his time. He doesn't have to do anything.

No troops, no invasion, nothing.

Just turn off the spigot.

The west has nothing to offer them but headlines.

Can the EU/Germany afford to give them $15 billion when they still have to keep an eye on southern europe.

Will they also build the infrastructure needed to replace the fuel supplied by Russia.

Ukraine is screwed, they will remain in orbit with Russia whether they want it or not.

I suppose the funny thing is immigration is beginning to be a touchy subject.

If I were in charge of Shell or Exxon I would be sending Fracking crews to extreme western provinces of Ukraine yesterday.
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Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2014, 10:52:32 AM »
I have to laugh, no sooner then I finished my last post I was reminded that facebook is spending $16 billion to snatch up a texting outfit.

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Offline franksolich

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2014, 11:56:32 AM »
Quote from: EagleKeeper on February 23, 2014, 10:42:54 AM

Problem, however.  Ukraine has Russia by the balls as much as Russia has Ukraine by the balls.

Russia sells much more natural gas to Europe than it involuntarily donates to Ukraine; Russia needs that revenue from Europe.

The pipelines cross Ukraine, and to build a new one crossing elsewhere would take years and years.

And so while Russia could shut off supplies to Ukraine, Ukraine on the other hand could shut off revenue-producing supplies to Europe.

So.....what's one to do?  As Romney suggested, one might as well flip a coin.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 02:49:42 PM »
Let's not forget the Israelis here, gang . . . Now, before you BS me for suggesting "JOOOOOOSS!" in all this, hear me out.  Israel has made a huge natural gas discovery in its territorial waters.  IIRC, billions of cubic feet.  Enough to supply oh, say--Europe if the Russians get frisky with the gas supplies.  It'll take some time before the Israelis have that field fully operating, but a lot happens on futures.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 06:01:07 PM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on February 23, 2014, 02:49:42 PM
Let's not forget the Israelis here, gang . . . Now, before you BS me for suggesting "JOOOOOOSS!" in all this, hear me out.  Israel has made a huge natural gas discovery in its territorial waters.  IIRC, billions of cubic feet.  Enough to supply oh, say--Europe if the Russians get frisky with the gas supplies.  It'll take some time before the Israelis have that field fully operating, but a lot happens on futures.

As confusing as all this is to me about who is doing what to whom about the only thing I understand is BSS post on Israel's new find. One problem is Israel will have to build a man made island.   Other country's have done so with success for one reason or another.

Israel however will have to invent an elaborate security system so high tec that unless the Jews from all other country's go home to man the gates so to speak, the drain on their military will place those on land vulnerable to its enemy's.   

I would really like to know how Israel can possibly pull this off.  We know from the past the Jews can and do the most impossible things, I have full faith they will find a way and wish them Gods speed. 

It is not money but time that is the problem for them, a mammoth project that can't wait 15 years to build.    Somehow they will have to get this done in a very short span of time, what an exciting project for the young engineers and scientists to get into on the bottom level.     
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Offline Dori

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 06:54:07 PM »
Quote from: EagleKeeper on February 23, 2014, 10:42:54 AM

If I were in charge of Shell or Exxon I would be sending Fracking crews to extreme western provinces of Ukraine yesterday.

Quote
Natural resources: iron ore, coal, manganese, natural gas, oil, salt, sulfur, graphite, titanium, magnesium, kaolin, nickel, mercury, timber, arable land

The Ukraine also has great agricultural potential.



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Offline jukin

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 09:13:55 PM »
Quote from: Dori on February 23, 2014, 06:54:07 PM
The Ukraine also has great agricultural potential.





Unless a progressive benevolent dictator stops them from farming it.  Ah Stalin a hero at the DUmp.
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Offline lastparker

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 03:03:25 PM »
Cali is all over this topic... from a similar thread:

 
Quote
cali (91,606 posts)

Ukraine's rich and varied natural resources


Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. Rich iron ore reserves located in the vicinity of Kryvyy Rih, Kremenchuk, Bilozerka, Mariupol, and Kerch form the basis of Ukraine’s large iron-and-steel industry. One of the richest areas of manganese-bearing ores in the world is located near Nikopol. Bituminous and anthracite coal used for coke are mined in the Donets Basin. Energy for thermal power stations is obtained using the large reserves of brown coal found in the Dnieper River basin (north of Kryvyy Rih) and the bituminous coal deposits of the Lviv-Volyn basin. The coal mines of Ukraine are among the deepest in Europe. Many of them are considered dangerous because their depth contributes to increased levels of methane; methane-related explosions have killed numerous Ukrainian miners.

Blah blah blah.....

 
Quote
msanthrope (22,212 posts)
1. Poor, poor Vlady. We'll let him keep Comrade Eddie as his consolation prize. nt

Quote
cali (91,606 posts)
2. you are a living testament to the simple brilliant truth of Santayana's

comment.

Quote
msanthrope (22,212 posts)
3. Oh, cali--you'd posted two threads on the Ukraine with virtually no response. You should at least

be grateful that I stopped by!

And the fact that you are quoting one of my favorite pragmatists is a step in the right philosophical direction.

Quote
cali (91,606 posts)
4. lol. funny stuff.

Quote
msanthrope (22,212 posts)
5. I'm here all week! Try the veal! Tip your waiter! nt

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/10024551344
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 09:22:36 PM »
Pretzel is a hard core leftist and Democratic hack. Cali is a hard core purist with no political party affiliation.
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Offline Dori

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 11:37:22 AM »
The twisted warrior is poking at Cali with a ruse.   :fuelfire:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024562323

Quote
Star Member Pretzel_Warrior (7,293 posts)

cali is on fire

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-02-11/california-wildfires-erupt-early-in-risk-to-homes-and-vineyards

It looks like 2014 has the chance to be an absolutely horrific year for fires in the southwest U.S. 

Quote
Autumn (14,750 posts)

4. Why yes, cali is on fire

pisses you off?  So obvious PW but damn you are good.


Quote
pintobean (11,451 posts)

10. It's a 3fer

He also scooped our California fire journo, and he used "Cali" for California.

This thread should go places.
 

 :lol:
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2014, 11:53:27 AM »
They're both childish fools.

I call for a duel between them. Hand grenades at high noon. It would be doing all of us a favor.

.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2014, 12:08:09 PM »
Was their any doubt that PW was a wimp?

Look at this:

Quote from:
morningfog

18. Hm? Two week old story, your own headline, using a DUer's name that you despise?
 
There is a name for your posting behavior.

Quote from:
Pretzel_Warrior

20. you mean like PM'ing another poster who got a time out mocking them?
 
oh wait..that was someone else. you have a lot of gall to criticize considering your recent appaling behavior.

Quote from:
morningfog

23. Is a pm a post?
 
You know what you are.

Quote from:
Pretzel_Warrior

25. I think others should know of your treacherous behavior
 
you know what you are as well. stalking is against the law in many states.

Quote from:
morningfog

26. That's hilarious.
 
You clearly don't understand law. I'll post my PM to you for all to see:


LOL

You just can't help yourself. Here today, gone tomorrow?

And, no I did not alert or serve on the jury. Too funny.

PW considers sending a PM which is laughing at how immature and stupid he is as stalking.

 :rotf: :lmao: :rotf: :lmao: :rotf: :lmao: :rotf:

What a thin skinned little oaf.

.
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Offline Dori

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2014, 12:17:47 PM »
That didn't last long.  He got called out then closed the thread....coward


Quote
morningfog (7,009 posts)

18. Hm? Two week old story, your own headline, using a DUer's name that you despise?

Quote
Star Member Pretzel_Warrior (7,302 posts)

20. you mean like PM'ing another poster who got a time out mocking them?
 
oh wait..that was someone else. you have a lot of gall to criticize considering your recent appaling behavior.

[/quote]
Quote
Star Member Pretzel_Warrior (7,302 posts)

25. I think others should know of your treacherous behavior

Quote
morningfog (7,009 posts)

26. That's hilarious.
 
You clearly don't understand law. I'll post my PM to you for all to see:
LOL

You just can't help yourself. Here today, gone tomorrow?

And, no I did not alert or serve on the jury. Too funny.


Quote
Star Member 11 Bravo (16,803 posts)

21. Oops, I thought the OP was in reference to the individual who has 13 posts ...

on the front page as I type this.

Quote
Star Member hrmjustin (29,382 posts)

24. This is disruptive.

Quote
Star Member Pretzel_Warrior (7,302 posts)

27. I am locking this thread. Only posts bashing Obama are allowed on GD.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2014, 03:27:39 PM »
So PW can't get along with others anywhere he goes. What a shock.
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Offline Tess Anderson

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2014, 03:35:08 PM »
My money is on Eva over Curtis . . . she's older, more entrenched and even more bitter than he is.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: the pretzel and cali get into it, clawing at each other
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2014, 09:14:13 AM »
Quote
cali (91,565 posts)    Sat Feb 22, 2014, 05:35 PM


and yeah, I don't agree with anti-semitic right wing ****wads.

?? Bitch, only antisemitism I see around these days comes from you moonbats, and you wear that badge proudly.
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