« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: primitives discuss the Constitution  (Read 1724 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
primitives discuss the Constitution
« on: February 01, 2014, 12:57:19 AM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024424823

Oh my.

Quote
cherokeeprogressive (17,140 posts)    Sat Feb 1, 2014, 01:35 AM

Does the Bill of Rights CONFER rights to American Citizens?

Or does it PROHIBIT the Federal Government from violating rights believed to already exist?
 
First Amendment: "shall make no law, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech.
 
Second Amendment: " A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State (my interpretation of this is "state of being"), the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
Third Amendment: "No Soldier shall"

Fourth Amendment: "shall not be violated"

Fifth Amendment: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
 
Sixth Amendment: "shall enjoy the right"... This was later adjudicated to mean the right already existed.
 
Seventh Amendment: "...no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States..."
 
Eighth Amendment: "shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
 
Ninth Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
 
Tenth Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." HATE this one... this one empowers the state governments over the FEDERAL government.

Quote
linuxman (31 posts)    Sat Feb 1, 2014, 01:52 AM

1. Rights are natural and preexisting...


The FFs didn't create these rights. They simply put them to paper and highlighted the fact that those rights were not to be stepped on by governments.
 
The BORs specifies rights which exist for the people. The idea that the government created or granted those rights is false.* I actually find it quite interesting that so many of our amendments which were written into law after the constitution's initial phase DON'T deal with individual, personal rights.

*tell that to your fellow primitives, though, who think that the government is the source of our freedoms and liberties.

Yeah, they do.  The primitives actually believe that.
Logged
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."

Offline Carl

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19839
  • Reputation: +1618/-100
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 05:05:27 AM »
It is as clear as can be that the Founders saw government as an infringer of rights and did all they could to limit its ability to do that yet also maintain an organized and civil society.

They would recoil in revulsion to see DUmbasses twist their concepts into making wishes and desires "rights" and then demanding the government provide them while extracting the means of that by force from another person.
Logged

Offline Carl

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19839
  • Reputation: +1618/-100
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2014, 05:13:42 AM »
I had to slog over to the island as primitives discussing the Constitution is usually as amusing as them discussing economics.
They seem to be avoiding the topic though given the Constitutions own words were used and hard to argue with but one gives it the college try.

Quote
Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 02:20 AM

MFrohike (806 posts)
8. Confers

It's pointless quibbling to talk about rights in a vacuum. They don't exist, as a practical matter, without the means, and political will, to enforce them.

As for the word shall, it's a bit silly to read that much into it. Shall and shall not were likely borrowed from the Ten Commandments and would not have been thought to signal some pre-existing status of rights. They were used because shall and shall not are strong words of action in English. They're still used in legal drafting to signal imperative duties and limits in statutes, regulations, etc

 :mental:
Logged

Offline 98ZJUSMC

  • The Most Deplorable
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Reputation: +436/-76
  • Now, with 99% less yellow!
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 09:28:18 AM »

Quote
MFrohike (806 posts)
8. Confers

It's pointless quibbling to talk about rights in a vacuum. They don't exist, as a practical matter, without the means, and political will, to enforce them.

As for the word shall, it's a bit silly to read that much into it. Shall and shall not were likely borrowed from the Ten Commandments and would not have been thought to signal some pre-existing status of rights. They were used because shall and shall not are strong words of action in English. They're still used in legal drafting to signal imperative duties and limits in statutes, regulations, etc No, .....really?


yeeeesh........... :whatever:  The (D)Ullard is twisting hisself for some reason, but I can't tell what it is.  

"......would not have been thought to signal some pre-existing status of rights...."

Yeah, I give.
Logged
              

Liberal thinking is a two-legged stool and magical thinking is one of the legs, the other is a combination of self-loating and misanthropy.  To understand it, you would have to be able to sit on that stool while juggling two elephants, an anvil and a fragmentation grenade, sans pin.

"Accuse others of what you do." - Karl Marx

Offline Delmar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5295
  • Reputation: +592/-41
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 09:58:10 AM »
Quote
Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #3)Sat Feb 1, 2014, 02:07 AM
linuxman (32 posts)
6. That's kind of my point.

No rights were created. Rights were enumerated in a "Government cannot" list, not a "Citizens can" list.

Some of these DUmmies are starting to stumble into the truth and that spells trouble for the democrat party.  "Constitutional scholar" Barry needs to "explain" the BOR to them and get them back on the plantation, pronto.
Logged
We will make America strong again. We will make America proud again. We will make America safe again. And we will make America great again.

Donald Trump

Offline Freeper

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17779
  • Reputation: +1311/-314
  • Creepy ass cracker.
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 10:13:45 AM »
Primitives discussing the constitution, the Bible, or economics are all areas that are way over their heads.

They hate scripture, they hate the constitution, and only discuss either if they can somehow twist the meaning and try to appear clever when arguing against repukes. They have knowledge of both, but no understanding of either.
Logged
I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2014, 11:28:27 AM »
Quote from: Freeper on February 01, 2014, 10:13:45 AM
Primitives discussing the constitution, the Bible, or economics are all areas that are way over their heads.

It's like dogs discussing astronomy...totally beyond their comprehension, aside from a certain shared impulse to bay at the moon. 

CherokeeProgressive has an awful lot of lucid moments to be a genuine primitive, I have to say.
Logged
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Mike220

  • Proud owner of a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4650
  • Reputation: +310/-122
  • Ron Swanson is my hero
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2014, 11:50:21 AM »
Quote from: 98ZJUSMC on February 01, 2014, 09:28:18 AM

yeeeesh........... :whatever:  The (D)Ullard is twisting hisself for some reason, but I can't tell what it is. 

"......would not have been thought to signal some pre-existing status of rights...."

Yeah, I give.

So if rights are conferred by the government then this surely means they can be revoked by the same. Sure that's a path you want to go down, DUmmy?
Logged
Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer "extortion." The "X" makes it sound cool. - Bender

"jews run the media" -- CreativeChristie
Woohoo! Bow to me peasants -- Me

Offline Skul

  • Sometimes I drink water just to surprise my liver
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12475
  • Reputation: +914/-179
  • Chief of the cathouse
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2014, 11:56:49 AM »
Just for the DUmmies.
Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Logged
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline BlueStateSaint

  • Here I come to save the day, because I'm a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32553
  • Reputation: +1560/-191
  • RIP FDNY Lt. Rich Nappi d. 4/16/12
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 12:52:07 PM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on February 01, 2014, 11:28:27 AM
It's like dogs discussing astronomy...totally beyond their comprehension, aside from a certain shared impulse to bay at the moon.  

CherokeeProgressive has an awful lot of lucid moments to be a genuine primitive, I have to say.

So, what you're saying is . . . CP told 'em that "the Moon is a long way away," rhetorically . . . ? :tongue:
Logged
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
Chase her even when she's yours.
That's the only way you'll be assured to never lose her.

Offline JohnnyReb

  • In Memoriam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32063
  • Reputation: +1998/-134
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2014, 02:00:12 PM »
I like discussing writings I've never read with people that have never read them either. :-)
Logged
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline Big Dog

  • ^^Smokes cigars and knows things.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15581
  • Reputation: +1954/-213
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 03:18:28 PM »
I'm surprised PhDD hasn't chimed in, to school her fellow proglodytes on the lessons in liberty she learned here at CC.



OK, I'm not really surprised.
Logged
Government is the negation of liberty.
  -Ludwig von Mises

CAVE FVROREM PATIENTIS.

Offline miskie

  • Mailman for the VRWC
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10462
  • Reputation: +1035/-54
  • Make America Great Again. Deport some DUmmies.
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 04:34:23 PM »
The primitives are just 'warming up' for after the 2014 elections. Up until The One was christened king of America, the primitives were all about 'rights' , especially rights that allowed them to speak out against Chimpy McCokespoon, 'lil boots, Bushitler, and all the other names they called GWB on a fairly regular basis.

After The One ascended to his throne, they were all ready to toss out The Constitution.
Logged

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58722
  • Reputation: +3102/-173
Re: primitives discuss the Constitution
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2014, 04:44:06 PM »
Quote from: miskie on February 01, 2014, 04:34:23 PM
The primitives are just 'warming up' for after the 2014 elections. Up until The One was christened king of America, the primitives were all about 'rights' , especially rights that allowed them to speak out against Chimpy McCokespoon, 'lil boots, Bushitler, and all the other names they called GWB on a fairly regular basis.

After The One ascended to his throne, they were all ready to toss out The Constitution.

Ain't that the truth.
Logged
apres moi, le deluge

Milo Yiannopoulos "It has been obvious since 2016 that Trump carries an anointing of some kind. My American friends, are you so blind to reason, and deaf to Heaven? Can he do all this, and cannot get a crown? This man is your King. Coronate him, and watch every devil shriek, and every demon howl."
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »