Author Topic: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect  (Read 2448 times)

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Offline MD

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Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« on: November 30, 2013, 07:23:26 PM »
Note: This is not from DU but ASMB, another hole full of liberal idiots who cant think for themselves.  Luckily I'm there to inform them of how wrong they are :D


Anyways, as Obamacare just gets worse and worse Democrats are in desperation mode to try to revise history and blame someone else.

Can you guess who?

Quote
ShowUsYourTaint:
As you may have noticed, the Obamacare launch has not exactly gone off without a hitch, and mostly it boils down to the Federal website not working.  People living in those states that did not set up their own private exchanges are finding it impossible to compare plans or sign up for insurance because their sole resource for doing so is inoperable.  Many people have wondered:  How could Obama be so incompetent to let his signature health reform he had years to prepare for be so unprepared for the requirements placed on it?
 
There are many reasons why the website doesn't work.   The main reason, though, is the inability of the Federal website to handle the kind of traffic required of it and provide for all of the intricate details personalized to individual users like it needed to.  Originally, the plan was for every state to set up their own private insurance exchanges, which would have spread the overall internet traffic for Obamacare around to various state exchange websites linked to at healthcare.gov.   But it turns out that some states don't like Obamacare at all, so many of these states did not set up exchanges at all, and the conservative justices of the Supreme Court ensured that states could "opt out" of the medicaid expansion as well.  Which meant anyone signing up for insurance in those states would be solely reliant on the federal website to get coverage.  This was an increase in traffic that was not foreseen by the people making the website, so inevitably the website failed, and it was largely caused by a lack of cooperation on Obamacare which should have changed the scope of the project.  The people working on it should have foreseen that the Republican response would be to oppose the law at the state level and adjusted the scope of the project accordingly, but alas they did not because they trusted that they could get some cooperation on a law that Republicans wrote.
 
Unfortunately, adjusting the scope of the project also means cost overruns, and spending more money on the website would give the opposition ammunition, so they couldn't do that either.
 
That wasn't the only reason though:  Because many business interests are united so strongly against Obamacare, Obama could not trust that if he contracted out the job of making the website to a major IT firm they would not sabotage it (or simply nobody who could do the job would take the job when offered as a different way of sabotaging it).  So essentially, he had to give the job to people he could trust to do the job, even though their IT knowledge was lacking for the size of the project they were now taking on (after the red states did not set up exchanges and opted out of the medicare expansion).  So when you combine the fact that the people who made the website were not the best of the best as far as IT goes, and the fact that more people than originally expected were going to need to use the federal website after the red states bucked the law, you can see how things got out of hand here pretty quickly.   Obama had a problem with "moral hazard" here, which occurs when you cannot trust the people you hire to be able or willing to do the job they are tasked with.  The problem here is a lack of trust in the people who had the skills to pull this job off.
 
Some of this is on Obama himself, of course.  He probably overreacted to the seemingly constant stream of Republican opposition at every turn and this led him not to trust private firms to handle the website when I am certain some of them value doing a good job at whatever they're hired to do even if they personally disagree with it.
 
So why are business interests so opposed to the law that they would fight, scratch, claw tooth and nail and generally do everything they can to kill it?  It really boils down to perceptions of the poor.  They don't want people who they feel are not contributing to society to have healthcare.  They feel that this is propping up dead weight, or is an inefficient allocation of capital, because if people were providing something they would already have good paying jobs that provide employer-based coverage, people who are standing on their own two feet, lifting up themselves and society together are ultimately what they want.  They feel that they worked hard to get where they are and other people should have to as well, and giving a benefit like healthcare for nothing might present a "free rider problem" where people are receiving a benefit without paying into the system by working for it.   The problem is there is a rather narrow view of the value provided by human beings inherent in this judgment of worth of people, and unless you want to take this line of thinking to it's logical extreme (cutting off the dead weight) you are going to have to pay to support these people anyways, so you might as well work at building them up instead of letting them implode until they die or something.  But ultimately, the problem here is a lack of trust that this investment will be worth it, and that is an understandable concern because it is not always obvious how these people will be "useful to society".
 
There are other reasons for the failure too, but I think this paints the overall picture of how partisan gridlock makes government dysfunctional.


If you guessed Republicans, your right!

This one really runs the gambit of liberal lunacy.

First off you've got the "GOP obstructionist" argument.  Always a favorite of mine.  I mean, its not like the Democrats did everything they could to stop President Bush or anything.  This kind of "obstruction" has never happened before in the history of....ever.
Then of course is SCOTUS daring to not allow the massive expansion of federal power to mandate what a state can and cannot do with Medicaid/Care.  How dare SCOTUS strike down this law!  Dont they know that Obama and Obamacare are simply above the law?!  
Of course no good liberal rant would be complete without the "Businesses want poor people to die" claim, as well as the hilarious claim that Obama didn't hire a IT group to design healthcare.gov because they would sabotage it(what with them being big business poor people haters and all).
And just to make sure we hit all the typical liberal talking points he finishes up with the classic "partisan gridlock" statement.

The entire thread can be read http://boards.adultswim.com/t5/Babbling/The-Problem-With-The-Obamacare-Website/m-p/69327777#U69327777hereIts worth it to.  It really just devolves from here.  
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 07:26:32 PM by MD »
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2013, 08:29:43 PM »
Thing is obamacare doesn't cover that level of mental illness.

.
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Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2013, 08:56:05 PM »
Quote
That wasn't the only reason though:  Because many business interests are united so strongly against Obamacare, Obama could not trust that if he contracted out the job of making the website to a major IT firm they would not sabotage it (or simply nobody who could do the job would take the job when offered as a different way of sabotaging it).

Ummmm.....run that by me again,...... Huh?
              

Liberal thinking is a two-legged stool and magical thinking is one of the legs, the other is a combination of self-loating and misanthropy.  To understand it, you would have to be able to sit on that stool while juggling two elephants, an anvil and a fragmentation grenade, sans pin.

"Accuse others of what you do." - Karl Marx

Offline 98ZJUSMC

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 09:12:18 PM »
Quote
because if people were providing something they would already have good paying jobs that provide employer-based coverage

So tell me, Mr. cOmMunIsMiscOOl, what happened to that "each according to his abilities" thingy? 

Is it hard that your ideology is a contradiction unto itself?

Do you understand the meaning of those words?

Uh-huh....
              

Liberal thinking is a two-legged stool and magical thinking is one of the legs, the other is a combination of self-loating and misanthropy.  To understand it, you would have to be able to sit on that stool while juggling two elephants, an anvil and a fragmentation grenade, sans pin.

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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 09:20:24 PM »
There is no ground to fertilize in the field of "owebumacare is the republican's fault".
It was fully crafted at every step of the process without any input from any Republican. It's all on the dems.
The GOP did oppose owebumacare every step of the way, but that opposition had no bearing on the final product.
The final product of owebumacare is that it's a big steaming pile.
Libs will have to live with it, die (politically) by it, and own it.
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Offline BattleHymn

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 09:28:57 PM »
There is no ground to fertilize in the field of "owebumacare is the republican's fault".
It was fully crafted at every step of the process without any input from any Republican. It's all on the dems.
The GOP did oppose owebumacare every step of the way, but that opposition had no bearing on the final product.
The final product of owebumacare is that it's a big steaming pile.
Libs will have to live with it, die (politically) by it, and own it.

^^^+1 what he said.

Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 09:40:19 PM »
There is no ground to fertilize in the field of "owebumacare is the republican's fault".
It was fully crafted at every step of the process without any input from any Republican. It's all on the dems.
The GOP did oppose owebumacare every step of the way, but that opposition had no bearing on the final product.
The final product of owebumacare is that it's a big steaming pile.
Libs will have to live with it, die (politically) by it, and own it.

Wait until next year when an estimated 50-80 million folks start losing their insurance.
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Offline MD

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 09:43:13 PM »
There is no ground to fertilize in the field of "owebumacare is the republican's fault".
It was fully crafted at every step of the process without any input from any Republican. It's all on the dems.
The GOP did oppose owebumacare every step of the way, but that opposition had no bearing on the final product.
The final product of owebumacare is that it's a big steaming pile.
Libs will have to live with it, die (politically) by it, and own it.

Oh believe me.  Ive made that point more than 100 times now really.  The problem is theres only a few conservatives there to shove it in their faces :\

Oh well.  It is fun watching them implode like this.  Some of their other stuff has been simply brilliant lately :D
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Offline diesel driver

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2013, 06:38:37 AM »
Oh believe me.  Ive made that point more than 100 times now really.  The problem is theres only a few conservatives there to shove it in their faces :\

Oh well.  It is fun watching them implode like this.  Some of their other stuff has been simply brilliant lately :D

 :rulez:

Using adjectives such as "brilliant" in any sentence when referring to dimrats, liberals, and progressives is verboten!!!!

 :rotf:  :lmao:

Watch it!!!  
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 02:04:38 PM by diesel driver »
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Offline Freeper

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2013, 10:41:32 AM »
Damn the GOP and especially that dunce Bush for drafting and signing this into law! Obama has done his best to fix this mess that he inherited from Bush, but those waskly wacist wepublicans keep opposing him!
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Offline jukin

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2013, 12:57:11 PM »
An inherent trait of the communist/fascist/socialist/progressive is to blame others for the eventual failure of their ideology.
When you are the beneficiary of someone’s kindness and generosity, it produces a sense of gratitude and community.

When you are the beneficiary of a policy that steals from someone and gives it to you in return for your vote, it produces a sense of entitlement and dependency.

Offline miskie

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2013, 05:30:44 PM »
Once again, DUmbasses - Republicans didn't write this law.

1) The plan floated by The Heritage Foundation would only have mandated coverage for catastrophic injury.

2) The Heritage Foundation isn't a federally elected body. All they can do is float ideas, and throw money at candidates they approve of. -In other words, they can't actually make laws.

3) If you want to go down the 'Blame The Heritage Foundation' road anyway, I can go one further and blame the progressive AALL healthcare bill of 1915. And unlike the Heritage Foundation proposal, this was an actual bill brought to the house, to mandate states set up individual systems to allow for some sort of basic healthcare for wage earners.

- Here is the irony for you, primitives. New York and California were the first to fight against the bill, and then the labor unions followed, assuring its eventual defeat.

Here is a link for you, disbelieving DUmmies - straight form the Gub-mint. http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v39n7/v39n7p35.pdf

Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2013, 10:18:00 PM »
I have seen the code and been able to recreate the testing strategy.

Code: written by a 12-year old (actually I think many 12 year olds could do better).  The entire DESIGN is flawed ([if language = Spanish then say "si" else say "Yes"] = no structural understanding of how a language module should work)

Testing: We in the Real World go through testing cycles: Development/Design Unit Test; Functional unit Test;System Integration Testing;Performance Testing;Parallel Testing -- AND MORE!

The Federal Government requires a formal methodology called Capability Maturity Model (CMM) for every IT-related project.  It is a rigorous (if ill-informed, but that is a discussion for another day) set of standards that include these cycles.  It is HARD-CODED INTO EVERY FEDERAL CONTRACT.

How did Spanky and Our Gang get this contract without even a tip of the hat to the CMM standards?  Yes, I know this is a rhetorical question: FOO is the answer.
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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 04:55:29 AM »
I have seen the code and been able to recreate the testing strategy.

Code: written by a 12-year old (actually I think many 12 year olds could do better).  The entire DESIGN is flawed ([if language = Spanish then say "si" else say "Yes"] = no structural understanding of how a language module should work)

Testing: We in the Real World go through testing cycles: Development/Design Unit Test; Functional unit Test;System Integration Testing;Performance Testing;Parallel Testing -- AND MORE!

The Federal Government requires a formal methodology called Capability Maturity Model (CMM) for every IT-related project.  It is a rigorous (if ill-informed, but that is a discussion for another day) set of standards that include these cycles.  It is HARD-CODED INTO EVERY FEDERAL CONTRACT.

How did Spanky and Our Gang get this contract without even a tip of the hat to the CMM standards?  Yes, I know this is a rhetorical question: FOO is the answer.

The cherry on the top of this pile of excrement is Barry and Co. had THREE YEARS to get this going!  THREE JONH F'N KERRY YEARS!!!!!! 

And THIS is the BEST they can do?   :banghead:
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Offline Karin

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 07:14:39 AM »
That's the first I've heard of that:  Obozo couldn't trust private sector type people to build the website, they might sabotage it.   :lmao:  OK, expect to see that floating around here and there. 

Offline Wineslob

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 09:21:41 AM »
And I thought the DUmp was delusional.

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Offline Traveshamockery

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2013, 09:31:41 AM »
Haven't you heard?  The administration came out yesterday and said everything is working just fine, and they have met their goal of having a fully-functioning website by December 1st. 

Fine print:
*By fully-functioning, that means only 2 people can be on the website at the same time, and only if you're sitting in your parents' basement in your underwear 

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2013, 10:24:34 AM »
Fine print:
*By fully-functioning, that means only 2 people can be on the website at the same time, and only if you're sitting in your parents' basement in your underwear 
....but what if I'm naked....do I go to the front of the line?
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2013, 11:30:06 AM »
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2013, 11:38:51 AM »
Robert Gibbs: The Notion That Obamacare Website Is Working Is an ‘Arbitrary Measure’ (Video)

"It depends what the meaning of 'working' is...."

I've found it rather strange that Robert Gibbs, the first press secretary for the Oministration, has been fairly consistent in his criticism of it. :???:
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Offline MD

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2013, 08:30:53 PM »
This deserves a bit of an update as that thread has gotten simply hilarious.

After being presented with this rather sound argument
 
Quote
BasketballAmerican:
Why would an IT firm, with a potential multi million dollar contract on the line want to sabotage its own work? Do you really think a company is going to forgo millions of dollars and millions more in potential future clients for a political grudge? That's childish thinking on your part. Obama gave the contracts to friends of Michelle Obama because they were well connected. If they really wanted to get the job done right, they would have hired a company that could have got the job done; however, when government does something it rarely does it right. This is another case of crony capitalism at its finest.
 
There is a case where 3 guys made a better functioning version of the Obamacare site, in 3 days. This is what happens in a free market.


The libtard responded by doubling down and saying that companies hate for Obama and Obamacare outweighs their desire to make money.

Quote
ShowUsYourTaint:
I think you're well aware of how unpopular this law is with private firms and the extensive efforts being taken to kill the law before it is enacted for that very reason.  It's not just the industries directly effected by Obamacare, like insurance and healthcare, who are opposed to it (though they are certainly the most vocal);  It is business owners in general because it boxes them into actually having to provide for their employees healthcare in perpetuity and in general throws a big wrench in their plans to pull apart the social contract.  So most of them hate the idea of having to do that.  And they are worried that if Obamacare actually provides a benefit to people they didn't have before, they are not going to be able to get rid of it (Just like they couldn't get rid of Medicare and Social Security after people saw what they provided).
 
So would firms refuse to take the job in an effort to kill the law?  Yes, I'd say so.   A few million dollars now is nothing compared to having to live in an inclusive society for the foreseeable future, not for them.  They see this as the beginning of labor unrest, which they are pretty much universally opposed to, and that's kind of what it is too.


Yea.........not really sure what I can say or add at this point.  Im pretty sure that its been well established that this particular libtard has their head so far up Obamas ass that its simply amazing. 
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Offline cattlebaron

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Re: Obamacare revisionist history in full blown effect
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2013, 09:11:40 PM »
Yep, uneducated lunacy. First of all, Medicaid expansion was could not be enforced because of the severe federal coercion that the Supreme Court could not condone. The liberals would feel quite differently if the tables were reversed and that should be realized. Also, many insurance companies were in fact for Obamacare because of the prospect for more enrolled people, especially people in their 20's. (which was idiotic, but it takes all kinds.)

Yes, it's as true as the north star being present in the sky that the Repubicans will always be blamed for the failures of the Democrats social engineering plans.