primitives discuss electricity

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018502977

Oh my.

NewJeffCT (36,500 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:10 PM

Electrical Question

I'm going to consult an expert first, but wanted to see if anybody could give me an idea of what's happening:
 
I was changing a light bulb in the bathroom and the whole bathroom went dark. So, I went downstairs and flipped the circuit breaker and the main light in the middle of the room went on, but when I flipped the switch for the lights over the vanities, the whole room went dark again. So, I reflipped the circuit breaker and the light in the middle of the room went back on, but the lights over the vanities still aren't working. (If I flip the switch for the vanity lights, the whole room goes dark again.) So, it seems the circuit breaker is okay, right? So, what could be causing the problem? Bad wiring somewhere? Or, is the circuit breaker faulty?
 
The vanities are on opposite sides of the bathroom, while the main light is on the ceiling between them.

NYC_SKP (54,007 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:19 PM

1. Bad switch or bad wiring at the vanity light. Could be breaker but unlikely.

Removing the lamps (bulbs) from each fixture and then testing one-by-one could narrow it down to one fixture or, if it blows the circuit no matter where the bulb is, to the switch.
 
Circuit breakers rarely go bad.

Also, it's kind of hard to tell without knowing your switching diagram: are all the lamps controlled by the same single switch?
 
Is it by any chance a three-way switch (controllable from two different wall switches)?
 
Note to Conservative Cavers: Yes, I'm also an electrician, ya assholes.

Callmecrazy (1,274 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:59 PM

4. Another Electrician here...

I agree with NYC SKP for the most part. Breakers do go bad in very damp or very dusty environments.

But it's not the breaker.

You may have shorted the lamp socket when you removed the old bulb. It happens.

It's not the switch either.

Take out the new bulb and turn on the light. If it lights, it's a shitty bulb made in China. Try another. If another bulb trips the breaker, it may be the fixture.

First:
Make sure the vanity light switch is off.
Then:
Open the fixture that has the bad bulb.
Disconnect the black wire coming out of the wall and cap the end off with the wire nut.
Turn on the switch.
If the other vanity light goes on and the breaker holds, you have found your problem.

NewJeffCT (36,500 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:16 PM

5. well, after the initial power outage in the room

and the first reset of the circuit breaker, I changed the bulb on the offending light above the vanity and left it out and when I flipped the vanity light switch, the whole room went dark again... I then tried putting a new bulb back into the vanity light and retried it again, and the vanity light switch again caused the whole room to go dark again. (so, I've been up & down the stairs a lot today...)
 
Unfortunately, when I tried taking the bulb out of the vanity light this time, I think I also broke the vanity light.

Callmecrazy (1,274 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:28 PM

6. Well here's what I (a professional) would do:

Follow the directions in my previous post and disconnect the offending fixture. I'm assuming it worked fine before you changed the bulb. If the other vanity light works, you have found the culprit.

If you haven't touched the other vanity light it is not likely the problem.

Bathroom vanity light are very pretty and useful, but they aren't very durable and are made from very cheap parts. You likely damaged the socket when you removed the old bulb and caused a short in the fixture.

I really doubt the problem is anywhere else.

Just make sure when you remove the fixture that you cap off the black and the white wires coming out of the wall so nobody gets hurt.

This is the best advice I can give with the limited information I have to work with.

NewJeffCT (36,500 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:39 PM

12. Thanks

Part of the problem is that there are two vanity lights, one over one sink on the left wall of the bathroom, another over the other sink on the right wall of the bathroom. (see my picture above - two light sets like that). All of those lights went out, as well as the main light. When I flipped the breaker, the main light went back on both sets of vanity lights stayed out. I've tried the "offending" light socket with two different new bulbs in it as well as with no bulb, and all 8 vanity lights (4 bulbs on each side) don't work. It just seemed odd to me that the main light is on, but both sets of vanity lights stay out.

BlueStreak (5,366 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:04 PM

9. Completely off topic, but as an electrician, you will appreciate this one

Last summer, I had a really peculiar electrical problem. I had a circuit that had only a dehumidifier plugged in. It started working intermittently. Because the breaker never tripped, I figured that had to be a problem in the dehumidifier. But I moved that to another circuit and it worked perfectly.
 
I put other things on the bad circuit and they worked fine. What is going on here?
 
The dehumidifier might work for 10 minutes and then the circuit would be dead.

I figured the CB must be going bad even though it never tripped. My wife will let me work in the gang boxes, but she won't let me open up the main CB box because she's afraid I'll burn the house down. So I called out my electrician. It ended up being a loose wire going into the CB. As long as it was cold, it completed the circuit, but as it warmed up, it moved just enough to open the circuit.
 
Good thing because that was an expensive CB -- not the kind you can buy at the hardware store.

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NewJeffCT (36,500 posts)    Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:12 PM

13. UPDATE

a friend of mine that is pretty handy also mentioned resetting the GFI switch in the bathroom to see if that works. He said he's gone chasing electrical problems a few times in the past and all he needed to do was hit the reset button...
 
So, I tried that and it worked (one light on the vanity lights is not working.)

BlueStreak (5,366 posts)    Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:42 PM

15. Please replace that whole fixture

You may have a dangerous situation there.

[RobJohnson]

SKP shouts out to the cave!

NYC_SKP (54,007 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:19 PM

1. Bad switch or bad wiring at the vanity light. Could be breaker but unlikely.

Removing the lamps (bulbs) from each fixture and then testing one-by-one could narrow it down to one fixture or, if it blows the circuit no matter where the bulb is, to the switch.
 
Circuit breakers rarely go bad.

Also, it's kind of hard to tell without knowing your switching diagram: are all the lamps controlled by the same single switch?
 
Is it by any chance a three-way switch (controllable from two different wall switches)?
 
Note to Conservative Cavers: Yes, I'm also an electrician, ya assholes.

[franksolich]

SKP shouts out to the cave!

I don't believe it, not for one minute.

<<<wasn't born yesterday.

[diesel driver]

NYC_SKP (54,007 posts)    Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:19 PM
Note to Conservative Cavers: Yes, I'm also an electrician, ya assholes.

Yeah, right.   

DUmmie NewJeffCT has some wires crossed/touching somewhere.

Why else would setting one breaker trip both!   

Probably in a GFCI outlet.  Those things are a pain in the ASS!

Note to DUmbasses, I'm NOT an electrician, but I know wiring.  My specialty was automated feeding equipment used on farms.  I'd rather do the work myself, and do it RIGHT, than pay someone who's only qualification over me is he has a f'n piece of paper from some f'n bureaucrat.

Knowing what I do for myself and my friends takes money out of the pocket of morons like DUmmie skippy and his f'n union makes me very happy.   

[catsmtrods]

"Circuit breakers rarely go bad."  That right there tells me he ain't no electrician!

[miskie]

"Circuit breakers rarely go bad."  That right there tells me he ain't no electrician!

That he didn't immediately ask about checking & resetting the bathroom's GFCI tells me he is no electrician. - or at best an electrician I wouldn't ever hire. If the short tripped the breaker, it certainly tripped the GFCI along the way.

[Skul]

Why would a DUmmie want, or even need a vanity light? 

[Big Dog]

SKP shouts out to the cave!
 

NYC_SKP, the San Francisco Treat
 
Note to Conservative Cavers: Yes, I'm also an electrician, ya assholes.

One of the subjects just noticed the anthropologists.



News flash for ya, Skippy. Sticking a light bulb in your ass doesn't make you a lamp, much less an electrician.

[FiddyBeowulf]

The DUmmie needs to wedge something into the breaker box to keep the circuit breaker from tripping. The problem will eventually resolve itself.  

[67 Rover]

The DUmmie needs to wedge something into the breaker box to keep the circuit breaker from tripping. The problem will eventually resolve itself.  

Exactly what I was thinking, remove CB and insert Brass or Aluminum rod. Presto! no need to constantly be running up and down all those stairs.

[DefiantSix]

The DUmmie needs to wedge something into the breaker box to keep the circuit breaker from tripping. The problem will eventually resolve itself.  

Yes. Yes, they do. And I wish Skinner would hurry up and set up the Dead DUmmies forum so that we could link to those resolutions.

[USA4ME]

NYC_SKP
 
Note to Conservative Cavers: Yes, I'm also an electrician, ya assholes.

Oh please.

You libs have already demonstrated that you can't even tie your own shoes without a 50,000 page gov't directive explaining to you how, so don't give me this "I know how to..." nonsense. The *only* thing you know how to do instinctively is mooch off others.

.

[franksolich]

Oh please.

You libs have already demonstrated that you can't even tie your own shoes without a 50,000 page gov't directive explaining to you how, so don't give me this "I know how to..." nonsense.

The reason I disbelieve this "I'm an electrician" nonsense is because of his maddenly-condescending manner towards those Skippy obviously feels himself superior.

<<<has never met a condescending electrician in life.

[Wineslob]

Electrical Question

I'm going to consult an expert first, but wanted to see if anybody could give me an idea of what's happening:

1. Lick finger

2. Stick in socket

3. See what happens

[jukin]

1. Lick finger

2. Stick in socket

3. See what happens

It's far better to stick your tongue in the suspect socket.

[NHSparky]

"Circuit breakers rarely go bad."  That right there tells me he ain't no electrician!

No shit.  I don't know how many I've replaced at work in the last year alone.

Of course, idiots like him figure it's better to test a circuit by energizing it than by using a meter on it.  Dumbasses.

Yo, Skippy!  Since you're an electrician, I'm sure you and I can have an awesome conversation over NFPA70E one of these days, right?

[67 Rover]

Easier solution.

[hillneck]

SKP shouts out to the cave!
 

Yeah, he's a little touchy lately..I think Coach hurt his feelings.   

[RobJohnson]

1. Lick finger

2. Stick in socket

3. See what happens

His finger might be dirty. He could remove his socks and stand in the bath tub.

[Bad Dog]

I herby denounce Skippy as a bully.  His shout out to innocent Cavers has caused me to temper my comments.  I shall, however, carry on in spite of his browbeating.

Skippy is a fag, I have never met a fag electrician.  ,

[NHSparky]

Yeah, the breaker tripping instantly is usually indicative of a pretty HARD fault, even when dealing with a 15 amp breaker.

Of course, none of those idiots have apparently ever done any troubleshooting, etc.   Yo, SKP?  Ever heard of "ringing out" a circuit?

[jukin]

No shit.  I don't know how many I've replaced at work in the last year alone.

Of course, idiots like him figure it's better to test a circuit by energizing it than by using a meter on it.  Dumbasses.

Yo, Skippy!  Since you're an electrician, I'm sure you and I can have an awesome conversation over NFPA70E one of these days, right?

I got a hundred that says the DUchebag does not know what NFPA means with out nadining it. The first project I had after getting my BSME was to redesign and repackage a 200KW power distribution box for power hog of a machine. NFPA79 was my guide book.

My guess is it is a dead short to neutral or gnd and could be troubleshot in two minutes at the socket.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Hey DUmmies, like the rock song says, "Everything's better when wet."  Go for it!

 

[NHSparky]

I got a hundred that says the DUchebag does not know what NFPA means with out nadining it. The first project I had after getting my BSME was to redesign and repackage a 200KW power distribution box for power hog of a machine. NFPA79 was my guide book.

My guess is it is a dead short to neutral or gnd and could be troubleshot in two minutes at the socket.

Or someone decided to do a little home wiring and nutted hot to neutral.  And yeah...I'd disconnect the wiring to the lights at the switch and go from there.  Have these idiots ever heard of "half-splitting"?

[Skul]

I herby denounce Skippy as a bully.  His shout out to innocent Cavers has caused me to temper my comments.  I shall, however, carry on in spite of his browbeating.

Skippy is a fag, I have never met a fag electrician.  ,

They put things in sockets that really don't need to have things stuck in.