Swiss to vote on $2,800 monthly income for all adults - DUmmies drool

[Big Dog]

"How did that annoyingly adorable kitten get in here?"

[Big Dog]

[Laelth]

Take their kids off of them. If some slacking piece of shit drug addict can't hold a job, or provide adequate food, shelter, and basic necessities for their kids, they lose custody and the kids are placed with someone who can. Many kids are purposefully brought in to this world simply as a meal ticket from the Govt. Remove those incentives and birth rates will decline. I am not talking a family that loses their job and needs a little time to get back on their feet. Liberals love to confuse the two. I am talking about people that have never held a job, have no intentions of having one, spend years and years, decades on govt assistance and keep spitting out one after the other, making little to no effort to parent appropriately.

You want to pay all the taxes necessary to take care of all those kids whose parents aren't "good enough" for you?  I doubt it.

-Laelth

[Delmar]

I'd ask her(Laeith)to go to Blockbuster and rent the Mickey Rooney movie about Boys Town.

[Dori]

You want to pay all the taxes necessary to take care of all those kids whose parents aren't "good enough" for you?  I doubt it.

-Laelth

So you think druggies and criminals who let their kids roam the streets are good enough parents?  Interesting.

We are probably on the third generation of welfare brats.  It's a way of life for a lot of them.

You should read Starr Parker's book "Uncle Sam's Plantation".  She lived that life.

[txradioguy]

You want to pay all the taxes necessary to take care of all those kids whose parents aren't "good enough" for you?  I doubt it.

-Laelth

Lots of people who can't have kids would adopt those kids in a heartbeat.

[wasp69]

Lots of people who can't have kids would adopt those kids in a heartbeat.

You'll notice, however, how the little troll jumps all over the government solution.

[txradioguy]

You'll notice, however, how the little troll jumps all over the government solution.

Yup. Liberal indoctrination at its finest. Womb to tomb Government is your answer to anything.

Marx would be proud of him.

[biersmythe]

WHOO HOO Beer and boobiez!!!!! HI5

edit for sp...lol damn I do that alot.

[freedumb2003b]

WHOO HOO Beer and boodiez!!!!! HI5

I never should have left here in such a huff for 2 years.

I forgot how every thread, irrespective of topic, ends up with Beer and Boobies!

[Big Dog]

I never should have left here in such a huff for 2 years.

I forgot how every thread, irrespective of topic, ends up with Beer and Boobies!

In your absence, we added Bacon and Pie.

[freedumb2003b]

In your absence, we added Bacon and Pie.

So that was the enticing smell that I followed back...

:)

[98ZJUSMC]

Gleaned from the Hot air comment section on the article on this.  The guy (in italics) is from Switzerland:

This is bull !

We may “have” to vote on this socialist crap but it will NEVER be accepted by the Swiss people, I predict 90% will refuse this stupid thing. Swiss people aren’t that crazy ;-)

It’s just how our democratic system works… Say this vote is just a little “collateral damage” from the very democratic powers, that we, as Swiss, have : popular referendums : https://www.ch.ch/en/referendum

The good point is that this popular referendum powers also gave us the possibility to definitively ban the construction on minarets (late 2009 vote) and two weeks ago, one canton – Tessin – (canton = “state”) just banned the burka in all public places

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Burka_ban_approved_in_Italian-speaking_Switzerland.html?cid=36951992

I’ll just add that this latest success on banning burkas will now go national as a country wide vote on that subject will take place, probably late next year !

coolapic on October 6, 2013 at 9:50 AM


Oh, by the way, I AM SWISS, I live, vote and have political activities there (in the right wing UDC party) ;-)

coolapic on October 6, 2013 at 9:58 AM

@ virgo

I’m sure there’s some procedural nuance here: not every referendum gets implemented.

Correct, it must be compatible with our constitution ot it gets rejected. Alas, this may be constitutional and we may have to vote on it. But be assured it will be rejected, by at least 90% of the voters.

the Swiss may give socialism a try

No way, Switzerland is firmly on the right, the largest party is the UDC/SVP (right of the Tea Party, if compared).

Unfortunately we also have leftists and “greens”, sure, but those are a shrinking minority !

coolapic on October 6, 2013 at 12:25 PM


@ ZhivBlago

Yep, they are very much on the right. The UDC/SVP (same party, different language) is really right wing.

But I agree that the name can be confusing… I’m part of it, you can now feel reassured ;-)

coolapic on October 6, 2013 at 12:38 PM


The good point is that this popular referendum powers also gave us the possibility to definitively ban the construction on minarets (late 2009 vote) and two weeks ago, one canton – Tessin – (canton = “state”) just banned the burka in all public places

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Burka_ban_approved_in_Italian-speaking_Switzerland.html?cid=36951992

I’ll just add that this latest success on banning burkas will now go national as a country wide vote on that subject will take place, probably late next year !

coolapic on October 6, 2013 at 9:50 AM

[Big Dog]

I just realized- this dog looks like Morgan Freeman.

[Laelth]

Lots of people who can't have kids would adopt those kids in a heartbeat.

Interesting.  How would that work?

At what age would the child be taken away from its parents?  At what point would you be willing to say that a given child has parents who will not instill in their children a good wasp69 work ethic?  Would 5 years old be about right?  Where are all the people wanting to adopt 5-year-olds?  Or, would you take these children away from their parents earlier than that?  And who would get to make the decision that X parent is incapable of producing a child with a good wasp69 work ethic?  Would you honestly be willing to use the heavy hand of government in this way?  If so, so much for "land of the free."

Sorry.  I don't see adoption as a good solution to this problem.

-Laelth

[Laelth]

Yup. Liberal indoctrination at its finest. Womb to tomb Government is your answer to anything.

Marx would be proud of him.

I'll say this again, just in case you missed it the first time.  I would much rather have the free market, private charities, or just about anything else take care of this problem, if they could, but they haven't yet, and it doesn't look like they ever will.  In circumstances like this, government may be the only tool we have to combat a problem, and, as you can imagine, I would be willing to use it.  If the plan we try doesn't work, we can get rid of it.  If the problem gets solved, we can eliminate the government program that we set up to address it.  If we like the program and continue to see benefits from it, we can keep it.

I do not believe government should be the first option, but, when we're talking about politics, we're talking about government, so it makes sense to consider what the government could do, and then consider whether the government should do it (these are very different questions).

-Laelth

[Big Dog]

I'll say this again, just in case you missed it the first time.  I would much rather have the free market, private charities, or just about anything else take care of this problem, if they could, but they haven't yet, and it doesn't look like they ever will.  In circumstances like this, government may be the only tool we have to combat a problem, and, as you can imagine, I would be willing to use it.  If the plan we try doesn't work, we can get rid of it.  If the problem gets solved, we can eliminate the government program that we set up to address it.  If we like the program and continue to see benefits from it, we can keep it.

I do not believe government should be the first option, but, when we're talking about politics, we're talking about government, so it makes sense to consider what the government could do, and then consider whether the government should do it (these are very different questions).

-Laelth

Forget  about what the government "could do". It is not the purpose of government to solve the private problems of private citizens.

Ask this question first: Given that the Federal government is Constitutionally established as one of limited, enumerated powers, what does the Constitution empower the government to do?

Davy Crockett said, when he was a US Representative, "We have the right as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money."  Charity is not the business of government.

[BlueStateSaint]

Forget  about what the government "could do". It is not the purpose of government to solve the private problems of private citizens.

Ask this question first: Given that the Federal government is Constitutionally established as one of limited, enumerated powers, what does the Constitution empower the government to do?

Davy Crockett said, when he was a US Representative, "We have the right as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money."  Charity is not the business of government.

H5!

[Laelth]

Thank you for this thoughtful response.

We could start with the school system.  The fact that anybody is able to graduate high school without being able to read or write is testament that we as a society are fostering poor work habits from a young age.  School should be holding children back a grade in the younger years when they don't learn what they are supposed to learn, or failing them when they are older and don't do what they are expected to do.

Hmm ... schools are locally controlled (or state controlled, as is the case with Texas).  I presume you're not advocating a federal solution.  I don't deny that the problem you identify is real, but I would not favor another national law to address inadequacies in education.  I'd like to keep some state sovereignty and some local control of education.  So, what did you have in mind?

There should be a work element to welfare, a certain number of hours of work for society in exchange for your benefits. You don't work, you don't get your benefits, just like a job.  There should be some sort of work element when it comes to benefits like section 8 housing, and there should be consequences for trashing a place.

As far as I know, unemployment beneficiaries are required to look for work, constantly, while getting benefits.  Not sure what all the states have done with TANF, but it's temporary (and virtually useless).  Some states may have work requirements to get these benefits.  I really don't know.  I am not opposed to a work requirement for section 8 housing, provided we agree that only those who are able to work have to meet the requirement.  Lots of people are simply unable to work.  I, for one, am not interested in just letting them die.

Conservative philosophy isn't about being "mean," it is about the fact that in life actions have consequences.  If you work hard you can do very well, if you don't work hard life becomes more challenging.  I don't have a problem with temporary unemployment benefits, after all, anybody can fall on hard times.  I do have a problem with able bodied adults collecting any sort of government benefits long term.

Responses from a number of posters here suggest to me that many conservatives do feel that "being mean" is the best way to get maximum productivity out of our citizens.  If you disagree with them, more power to you.

WIC is an example of a good program.  Limits are set, it is for pregnant women and for families with children 5 and under, and there are guidelines on what you can purchase.  SNAP is an example of a similar program that is not run as well.  No, I don't want people to starve, but why shouldn't they have guidelines on what they can buy with money given to them by the government?  Why not require a certain number of hours of volunteer work to exchange for their SNAP benefits?

Agreed that WIC is good.  So is SNAP.  Most SNAP beneficiaries I know are working, actually.  Most Wal-Mart employees qualify for SNAP.  In essence, We the People of the United States are subsidizing Wal-Mart's profits with a minimum wage that keeps Wal-Mart employees in poverty.  This, imho, is a problem.

Expecting something for nothing is a learned behavior, and like any learned behavior it can be changed.  

I agree.  The question is, what do we want to do about it?

-Laelth

[lastparker]

I've been away from here so long, that I have to ask what is probably common knowledge:  Lealth -are you currently employed?

[Laelth]

Forget  about what the government "could do". It is not the purpose of government to solve the private problems of private citizens.

Ask this question first: Given that the Federal government is Constitutionally established as one of limited, enumerated powers, what does the Constitution empower the government to do?

Davy Crockett said, when he was a US Representative, "We have the right as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money."  Charity is not the business of government.

I fundamentally disagree.  A group of "private persons" got together to form this government because they felt they needed it to solve their personal problems (like the fact that the British Navy and privateers were raiding and stealing goods from private businesses).  As such, our Navy was created.

Government has always been a tool for private citizens to use, collectively, to improve the lot of all of us.  These guys are no exception to that rule:



-Laelth

[hillneck]

Forget  about what the government "could do". It is not the purpose of government to solve the private problems of private citizens.

Ask this question first: Given that the Federal government is Constitutionally established as one of limited, enumerated powers, what does the Constitution empower the government to do?

Davy Crockett said, when he was a US Representative, "We have the right as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money."  Charity is not the business of government.

Amen brother.  H5     

[Laelth]

I've been away from here so long, that I have to ask what is probably common knowledge:  Lealth -are you currently employed?

I don't intend to respond to any personal questions.

-Laelth

[Bad Dog]

I don't intend to respond to any personal questions.

-Laelth

Lilith, since neither the Swiss nor our government are going to guarantee your income in the remotely near future, have you considered Wishadoo?

[JohnnyReb]

Lilith, since neither the Swiss nor our government are going to guarantee your income in the remotely near future, have you considered Wishadoo?

...to late, that cow has already been milked.