Author Topic: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion  (Read 2010 times)

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Offline FiddlingAnt

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The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« on: October 01, 2013, 01:59:36 PM »
The American public is very wary that Obamacare will be a good thing. Most people are largely ignorant of the details of Obamacare, but they have a gut feeling that things will not turn out well.

There is a good reason for this queasy feeling and it´s nothing that can be solved by a shot of Pepto Bismal. (You may feel you need a shot of something much stronger,)

Those of us who have studied the failures of government to do an adequate job of serving the general public are quick to point out the already established government health care program, Medicare, is train wreck ready to happen and, unfortunately, we are all on the train.

How bad is it?

What are your favorite synonyms for bad?

Abhorrent, appalling, atrocious, awful, dire, disastrous, dreadful, frightful, ghastly, horrendous, shocking, monstrous, petrifying, unnerving.

All of these describe the problem and here is why:

* When Medicare was set up in the 1960s, the number of years people lived past age 65 was much less. That is a good thing if you are over age 65, but this increased longevity was not factored into the cost of Medicare. In fact for the past 40 years, the cost of Medicare has grown at twice the rate of the economy.

* The pending retirement of the large baby boom generation (78 million) is only going to make this imbalance worse.
With smaller families there are fewer people contributing to Medicare withholding and more people taking money out.

* Adding to costs, we have the popular prescription drug benefit called Medicare Part D (a George W. Bush program) that provides the elderly an average of $1,500 per year in drug subsidies.  How was this paid for? It wasn´t funded by any new taxes. This has created a $16 trillion unfunded liability.  In other words, this ¨most fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation since the 1960s¨ (in the words of David Walker, former comptroller general of the GAO) is equal in size to the official federal debt that has us Tea Party types pulling our hair out. Due to squirrelly government accounting, this is kept off the books. So should our debt actually be $32 trillion? No, it´s actually much worse.

* Boston University economist Laurence J. Kotlikoff calculates that the actual deficit number we have to worry about is over $200 trillion, and most of this is due to the underfunding of Medicare vs. projected costs. How does this number get so unfathomably huge? Proper accounting methods require that we project the cost of not paying for things that have been promised, that is how we end up with a $200 trillion deficit.

We can make this $200 trillion go down but it will mean either taxing people more to pay for Medicare or cutting back on Medicare benefits, neither option is likely to get you elected to Federal office, hence nothing ever gets done.

What is the solution? You can give up on the Democrats. They have proven time and time again that they can´t cut government spending and there are not enough rich people to fund all the taxes they would like to raise. You can also give up on most Republicans.  This is because too many of them are also okay with more government spending without funding it with new taxes (Medicare Part D mentioned above and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). Our best bet is with the Tea Party Republicans who are okay with cutting back on government spending. Unfortunately, this is not popular with most voters who are only looking after themselves and don´t care if our fiscal irresponsibility ruins the future for our children and grandchildren.

Your thoughts?

Offline DefiantSix

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 02:13:39 PM »
Quote
Your thoughts?

First, you're referring to NATIONAL DEBT, not the DEFICIT.

Second, the $200 Trillion you're referring to isn't even the National Debt; it is the total of all the unfunded liabilities on the federal books.  Not the same thing. Unfunded liabilities - like Social Security, Medicare, ObamaCoup, etc... - can be wiped off the ledger at the whim of Congress and the signature of the president. All they have to do is say that after such and such date, whatever albatross program hanging from their neck will be shut down, and bada bing, bada boom, the unfunded liability largely goes away.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 02:28:40 PM »
First, you're referring to NATIONAL DEBT, not the DEFICIT.

Second, the $200 Trillion you're referring to isn't even the National Debt; it is the total of all the unfunded liabilities on the federal books.  Not the same thing. Unfunded liabilities - like Social Security, Medicare, ObamaCoup, etc... - can be wiped off the ledger at the whim of Congress and the signature of the president. All they have to do is say that after such and such date, whatever albatross program hanging from their neck will be shut down, and bada bing, bada boom, the unfunded liability largely goes away.

And DC is stormed by mobs in wheelchairs and walkers bearing pitchforks and torches.

Offline DefiantSix

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 02:39:57 PM »
And DC is stormed by mobs in wheelchairs and walkers bearing pitchforks and torches.

What? The sheeple who can't be bothered when Dear Leader commits TREASON from the Oval Orifice?  They'll shut up and do as they're told by AARP, or it's off to the Soylent Green plant with them.

(Note: I never said that it was likely Congress WOULD do something like this.  I just said that it COULD. Big difference.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 03:42:55 AM »
Quote
Your thoughts?

You're too stupid to know the difference between debt and deficit.
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 03:57:59 AM »


Friedrich A. Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, Milton Friedman, even Murray Rothbard.... you ain't.
Government is the negation of liberty.
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CAVE FVROREM PATIENTIS.

Offline Wineslob

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 09:57:31 AM »
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

        -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC (106-43 BC)

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Offline FiddlingAnt

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2013, 01:31:00 PM »
In this case, the term deficit is correct.  The $200 trillion is an unfunded liability, meaning we have promised more in future expenses than we can collect from revenues without changing the formula.  Without raising taxes and/or cutting Medicare or increasing the rate of population growth, the only option is to continue borrowing -- that is where the $200 trillion number comes from.  Although it is not a current ¨debt¨ it is still a very real problem, the biggest problem facing our government because if this is not fixed it will squeeze out other government spending.  You can´t spend money on defense or roads or anything else if the money is being spent on Medicare.

The current Medicare model that Washington is grossly unfair to young people. It is like having them go to a restaurant and picking up the tab for old folks at the next table plus paying for their own meal. The common defense of retirees that they paid into Medicare so they deserve it does not hide the fact that we have been collecting less than what we spend.  This is a classic Ponzi scheme with the next generations getting the shaft.  Because children and the unborn can´t vote, there is nothing they can do to stop this.

Offline Big Dog

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2013, 07:00:18 PM »
In this case, the term deficit is correct.  The $200 trillion is an unfunded liability, meaning we have promised more in future expenses than we can collect from revenues without changing the formula. 

blah blah blah

No, dumb ass. You don't get to redefine words to suit you.

"Deficit" is not correct. A "deficit"  is the difference between revenue and spending in a given budget period. If we are talking about the US Government, the "deficit" is the difference between revenue from all sources, and expenditures, in a period from 1 Oct through the next 31 Sep.

Deficit  =/=  debt  =/=  unfunded liability.

It's impossible to take you seriously, given that glaring error, and your insistence on sticking with it.


Government is the negation of liberty.
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CAVE FVROREM PATIENTIS.

Offline FiddlingAnt

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Re: The Deficit is $200 Trillion, Not $16 Trillion
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 01:36:40 PM »
No, dumb ass. You don't get to redefine words to suit you.

"Deficit" is not correct. A "deficit"  is the difference between revenue and spending in a given budget period. If we are talking about the US Government, the "deficit" is the difference between revenue from all sources, and expenditures, in a period from 1 Oct through the next 31 Sep.

Deficit  =/=  debt  =/=  unfunded liability.

It's impossible to take you seriously, given that glaring error, and your insistence on sticking with it.



[/quote

Big Dog,

I don´t see how shooting the messenger brings any value to this discussion.

While ¨deficit¨ is commonly used to refer to any one year of underfunded government, it is not limited to this use. Our $200 trillion dollar government unfunded liability cannot be referred to as a ¨debt¨ because it is a future event, albeit a legal obligation. It is correctly labeled as a deficit. If you don´t take my word for it, read former U.S.Comptroller General David M. Walker or Boston University economist Laurence Kotlikoff, established experts on this important issue.