Facts and the 401k

[zeitgeist]

Don't ya just hate it when a good rant fails?
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023678115

xchrom (94,642 posts)



How America’s 401(k) Revolution Rewarded the Rich and Turned the Rest of Us Into Big Losers
  
 http://www.alternet.org/economy/401k-revolution-and-inequality

 ***SNIP

The Dumbest Retirement Policy in the World

Thirty years ago, as laissez-faire fanaticism took hold of America, misguided policy-makers decided that do-it-yourself retirement plans, otherwise known as 401(k)s, would magically secure our financial future in the face of gyrating markets, economic crises, unpredictable life events, stagnant wages and rampant job insecurity. It was an extraordinary shift in thinking about public policy: Instead of having predictable streams of income from traditional pensions, ordinary people with little financial expertise would suddenly transform themselves into financial gurus, putting money aside and managing complicated investments in tax-deferred accounts.

***SNIP

America, Land of Inequality

The long-term effects of an experiment gone awry are starting to become clear. The Economic Policy Institute has just released a study proving that do-it-yourself retirement is driving economic inequality, leaving regular Americans further behind than ever. Not since the Gilded Age has there been such a gulf between the rich and the rest. EPI’s Retirement Inequality Chartbook offers dozens of charts that examine retirement preparedness and outcomes by income, race and ethnicity, education, gender and marital status.

***SNIP

Looking Ahead

As we approach another round of debt-ceiling drama this fall, Republicans like Eric Cantor of Virginia are howling for cuts to Social Security and Medicare at a time when most Americans are increasingly strapped in their post-work years. That’s not surprising. But unfortunately, many Democrats, including President Obama, have signaled their willingness to further rob Americans of their hard-earned retirement insurance by cutting plans through various schemes like changing the way cost-of-living adjustments are calculated, and means-testing, which Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and others point out is no more than a covert strategy to undermine such programs.

 

The band wagon loads up with the usual hosannas  then shazzam  the truth rears its ugly head in this classic exchange:

Star Member valerief (36,481 posts)

14. It wouldn't have been created if it hadn't rewarded the rich. nt
 
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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:11 PM

Bunnahabhain (552 posts)

15. You guys do realize Jimmy Carter signed this law
 
and a Dem. Congress created it? Just wondering if you think this was all a boondoggle created by Jimmy.
 

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Response to Bunnahabhain (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:16 PM

Star Member xchrom (94,642 posts)

16. what 'we' realize is that both political parties have had the fingers in the process of ****ing the
 

Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:17 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

rest of us.

now -- do you have a real point to make?

or do you want to try and 'educate' DU on history we know very well?
 

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Response to xchrom (Reply #16)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:18 PM

Bunnahabhain (552 posts)

17. So you feel Jimmy and the 95th Congress
 
were out to screw the little guy? That's an interesting point of view.

I will agree with you thought that both Parties have been screwing the pooch on many issues. I just don't think Jimmy or the 1978 Dems were out to screw the little guy.
 

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Response to Bunnahabhain (Reply #17)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:22 PM

Star Member xchrom (94,642 posts)

18. i hink president carter was a good president --
 

on this he and the congress were %100 wrong.

and don't tell me SOMEBODY wasn't around saying -- 'i don't think so...'

more of that 'unexpected' horseshit that elites expect the rubes to fall for.

now the thread is hi-jacked with this horseshit.
 

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Response to xchrom (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:25 PM

Bunnahabhain (552 posts)

19. It got thread jacked
 
when someone erroneously called it "perfectly Republican" which is why I pointed out it was actually 100% Dem in doing.

I wish I could also help you with your anger issues. Please feel free to vent on me though as it just rolls off me.
 

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Response to Bunnahabhain (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:52 PM

Star Member xchrom (94,642 posts)

20. 'free trade' is also a 'liberal' idea.
 
You hi-jacked this thread having nothing to do with history.

You wanted to toss shit at Carter and distract from the disaster the 401k has become.


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Response to xchrom (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 06:15 PM

Bunnahabhain (552 posts)

25. You are 100% incorrect.
 
I specifically defended Carter when everyone else was "throwing shit" at the idea of 401ks.

You are an interesting character.

Looks like the x chromosome primitive has come up a chromosome short.    The Bunn machine may be getting pizza sooner rather than later.  Low post counters need be more respectful.  Truth has no place in a DU rant.

ETA link  

[biersmythe]

  good find my friend!

[jukin]

There is a huge pile of OPM out there in 401Ks and IRAs and the leftists DUchebags want it. I have had plans for pulling the trigger on mine at a moments notice. I suggest that all of you do too. Basically it is the only place left that has real value left after 5 years of Obamanomics. The left wants it and they want it real bad. Lots of plans have been floated because well, NOT FAIR!!!!!

It will happen real fast so you be faster. DO NOT wake up one morning to find out Obama has EOed the outright theft of real value that is your retirement savings and given you some paper with a 3% government backed return.

[Vagabond]

Why 401Ks?  Simple, big government's retirement plan is barely enough to live on, and is going to get worse.  The account in the government's name.  Big business, well they do tend to screw their retirees and workers at the drop of a merger or chance to file bankruptcy, so you can't count on big business with your retirement account, that is in their name.  Unions, well they have problems too, mainly they like to steal their members money, and the money is in the union's name anyway. 

What is the only way that a person can secure their money, then?  Put it in accounts with their name on it, and allow them to decide how to invest it, all the way from safe to risky.  That is what Carter and the 95th Congress did, they let people invest their own retirement.  That isn't a bad idea at all really.

[IassaFTots]

Gummint doesn't like not getting their share.  They started with our FSA's, then medical insurance, and will end up with our 401k's.  I do believe the idea of us having a benefit from a pretax deduction is abhorrent to them.  Greedy effers. 

[JohnnyReb]

So, DUmmies want to spend every dime, save nothing and then bitch about people who do....standard for DUmmies.

[biersmythe]

So, DUmmies want to spend every dime, save nothing and then bitch about people who do Take yours....standard for DUmmies.

With a little change.   

[USA4ME]

The self-proclaimed smartest people in the world don't know how to invest properly. I'm totally stunned,... shocked,... dumbfounded.....

I need to be alone now.

.

[Rebel]

Bunnahabhain (552 posts)

15. You guys do realize Jimmy Carter signed this law
 
and a Dem. Congress created it? Just wondering if you think this was all a boondoggle created by Jimmy.

No, dumbass, you're looking at it wrong. Carter wanted to **** the American people, like every other Dim, and an accountant by the name of Ted Benna, who wanted to HELP the average Joe, found a loophole in the tax system.

With that said, **** you and **** off. The 401K is a way for me to OWN my own retirement account. I know, you Prog morons hate the idea of ownership. You want everyone to live in Communes and, By God, you're doing your best to make the entire nation one. Molon Labe.

[USA4ME]

badtoworse

36. Unfortunately, pensions aren't coming back
 
We could debate what killed them, but that wouldn't change the current state of affairs. If you don't have a job with a pension now, you're unlikely to find one in the future, so saving for retirement is not really an option. If you're a public employee with a pension plan, I would consider the possibility that my pension money won't be there when I retire - a lot of cities don't have the money now and the situation is likely to get worse. Detroit is a good example.

It's a bad situation, but not saving is no answer. What is your solution?

Broken clock correct twice a day, etc...

At least the primitives get a chance to hear the truth from some primitive who likely stumbled into it not fully understanding it himself. They don't get it, and they certainly won't accept it, but they might as well try to deny the sun rising in the East. The pension train has left the station and it ain't to be seen again.

.

[RobJohnson]

I would love to have my current and previous FICA contributions transferred to my 401k. At least if I die before I retire I can leave the money to someone.

[zeitgeist]

The DUmmy food fight over Carter and the 401k is indeed a delightful look at full blown DENIAL  Not the river Nile but a fact of life all DUmmies have to embrace at one time or another if they are to be able to exist as a loyal democratic.

To expand, some years ago I ran across a most interesting thread at the DUmp on Nixon.*  Periodically DUmmies manage to rub the lanolin off their peepers long enough to glimpse Truth.  Once thus confronted they violently shake their collective heads back and forth, plug their ears and sing la la la then go back to worshiping the party symbol de jure.

*this is a great thread for those who wish to take a trip down DU memory lane.


What makes a good DUmmy?  I guess it would have to be the slavish belief in the mystical good done by 'the democratic party'. Only their support for the one true party meme via whatever means will ensure the glorious end they envision.  That end varies from DUmmy to DUmmy and is largely tied to the latest populist fads; it is how they conceive their God.  

Their pseudo religious belief in the greater good has supplanted a more traditional religious belief in a supreme being.  Obama is their supreme being (at the moment), Washington, their Mount Olympus.  Their Gods and Demi-Gods serve in the House and Senate.  And at any moment one is likely to hear from the Chorus, Et tu Brutis? as a favored potentate stumbles to the floor from a dagger in the back.  They pile 'em up like cord wood.  Who will be next to incur their wrath?  Barney the purple pedophile?  Alan of Grayson?  Lizzie the cheeky Cherokee?  Nasty Nancy or Hapless Harry?  Hard to say which but certainly one or more will be found to have feet of clay.

This is what makes it so darn easy to poke fun at these self declared noble, egalitarian, assholes.  They don't see the odd positions they convolute themselves into.  Contortionists are fun to watch even if they are largely freaks of nature. Then too it is hard to turn one's head in horror from a train wreck.  

They publicly eschew Nixon while embracing Carter but in more private, lucid moments they admit their goals where better served by Nixon and that they were screwed over by Carter.  That is why they are DUmmies.  

[USA4ME]

Good summary, zeitgeist.

(I couldn't get your Nixon link to work)

.

[zeitgeist]

Good summary, zeitgeist.

(I couldn't get your Nixon link to work)

.

It appears to have been scrubbed.  Imagine that.  The title was "Will we ever elect a President as Liberal as Richard Nixon again.'  Can't have that out there now can we.  Here is another one that may still exist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251303386

and this one by H2O on the old DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2019446

[Wineslob]

There is a huge pile of OPM out there in 401Ks and IRAs and the leftists DUchebags want it. I have had plans for pulling the trigger on mine at a moments notice. I suggest that all of you do too. Basically it is the only place left that has real value left after 5 years of Obamanomics. The left wants it and they want it real bad. Lots of plans have been floated because well, NOT FAIR!!!!!

This, for YEARS now.

401(k)s, would magically secure our financial future in the face of gyrating markets, economic crises, unpredictable life events, stagnant wages and rampant job insecurity. It was an extraordinary shift in thinking about public policy: Instead of having predictable streams of income from traditional pensions, ordinary people with little financial expertise would suddenly transform themselves into financial gurus, putting money aside and managing complicated investments in tax-deferred accounts.

*bolded* Like what's happening now? Under OBAMA?

Ever heard of either "self directed" or having the company running the 401k direct it for you? Huh DUmbshite?

I earn around 7-8% on average, and I'm supposed to accept 3% or less?  No, thank you.   

[Chris_]

I earn around 7-8% on average, and I'm supposed to accept 3% or less?  No, thank you.   

“We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." -- Hillary Rodham Clinton

[biersmythe]

“We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." -- Hillary Rodham Clinton

Yep saw that quote...she is a TRULY scary individual.