primitive wants to open a restaurant

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/115730792

Oh my.

One wonders why the pie-and-jam primitive didn't show up, to offer her expertise on the matter.

cilla4progress (3,066 posts)    Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:07 PM

Considering cafe start-up - resources? ideas?

I got laid off again this week. I am looking into taking over a bakery / lunch spot in my small town that was at one time successful, but failed for various mostly management reasons.
 
My only work in food service was 25 years ago waitressing in some nice places in our area. Grew up going out to fine dining places (family hobby) in New York City, Cape Cod, etc. Have dined a lot in nearby Seattle, a treasure trove of good food. Husband baked professionally for a short time years ago. I believe I have a fairly developed sense of what is good. I love to cook and am good at it. I think I am developing a sound plan.
 
My niche will include location - there is city park across the highway - captive audience in the summer (only lunch spot in town), and same for winter tourist traffic and city, school employees. Building is an old cinder block gas station. Funky, unique, unpretentious. I want to do the same with food. Can I get away with simple, good, consistent food? Nothing fancy, but fresh, healthy, and delicious? I have my own personal repertoire of items that have been popular with family and friends through the years, but never baked or cooked commercially before!
 
My primarily concerns are 1) start-up costs; 2) segregating our family's assets from the business; 3) how much work / hours it would entail; 4) how to make it profitable, or at least sustainable, cost of goods sold / income and return business.

Auggie (16,792 posts)    Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:20 PM

1. My wife owned a cafe for five years

The second-happiest day of her life is when she opened it. The happiest day of her life was when she sold it.
 
She was netting, for herself, about $20,000 a year at peak. The most trying part were employees, employee turnover, and the constant need for her to be present from 7 to 5, six days a week.
 
I think her suggestion to you would be to work in a cafe similar to the one you want to run to find out what works and what doesn't.

cilla4progress (3,066 posts)    Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:40 PM

3. I know that's good advice.

I don't know that I have the luxury...the building will sell before then.

$20K / yr. would be beyond acceptable for me! Sorry to say?

If cafe was only open 5 days a week, would that save the 6th, or is there prep, etc. on the 6th?
 
I do think I need partners /investors, an employee or 2. Want to stay small. Don't know if that is realistic.
 
My plan is to get my supplies from the local food stream, local producers. I lived in a rural part of Washington state and there are lots of growers, strong local food movement here. Also part of my "brand."

Auggie (16,792 posts)    Wed Sep 4, 2013, 05:21 PM

7. The prep was done the day before

She was open 7 days a week, so prep was ongoing. That's why she needed good staff to ensure things were done right on her day off. If you were open 5 days a week I think you'd have to come in for half day to prep, especially if you're baking your own stuff. My wife had 4 1/2 hours from opening before the lunch crowd trickled in. She couldn't prepare her entire lunch menu in that amount time.
 
Another thing about being closed for 2 days -- leftover food spoilage. You might find yourself throwing away produce/meats/dairy you might otherwise be able to sell.
 
At first my wife bought all her breads, muffins and desserts from the food service supplier. After a few months, as she got the routine down, she started to make some of her own baked goods, eventually making nearly all of it. I think anyone would tell you to start off simple and add.
 
Since you're getting most of your food raw, you're going to spend a lot of time of time in prep, maybe more than makes sense. Local producers mean your menu is going to have change seasonally too. And you're going to have to coordinate food delivery so it comes at the same time, or at least so you have everything at the same time you need to cook with.
 
All of us here applaud your plan. Read up on it before you commit. Be ready for long hours.

cbayer (123,464 posts)    Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:31 PM

2. Tough work, I do know that.

When I started my own business (not food related), I found some great resources at the library. There were books that helped me answer the questions you are asking, including worksheets to determine the risks/benefits. They also went through all the possible scenarios for whether in incorporate, etc.
 
Some were also state specific, as the rules can be quite different, and those helped me assure that I understood all the necessary paperwork, inspections, tax laws, etc.
 
Having you own business can be so rewarding and it worked out great for me, but it's not without risk. You will always be the last one paid.

^^^at one time, a good chum of the brain-damaged primitive.

It doesn't appear so any more.

<<<wonders what's up with that.

kentauros (22,804 posts)    Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:59 PM

4. Some of your primary concerns could be answered

by finding any message boards for people in that business. I know I've come across boards just for chefs, and often they're talking about the operation of their business. That could be a better source of information on running a business.
 
And does the Small Business Administration make loans for restaurants? I know banks are highly reluctant to make those kinds of loans, so the SBA is the better choice for start-up funds.
 
Find used restaurant supply businesses in your area for your equipment. New is good for some things (like say, the grill vents and fire-retarding system.) If it's a major piece of equipment that's bought used, you might have to get a professional to check it out before putting it in. Some of the workhorse pieces, such as Hobart mixers, don't wear out very fast, and are relatively easy to maintain.
 
As for workers, a cafe here that I frequent (and have become friends with the owners) doesn't have a high turnover rate for their employees. They treat them well, and have only gone through employees due to them wanting to move on, or were there temporarily to begin with (one of them now owns a gelato business in Houston's richest mall, The Galleria, and another is an engineer now.)
 
That's cool your husband used to bake for a living. I did as well as one time, and why I know a little about the industry, too

Nac Mac Feegle (13 posts)    Wed Sep 4, 2013, 06:54 PM

10. There are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes.

You'll have to learn everything about the phrase "Food Cost". That isn't just how much the flour, oil, water, yeast, and salt that go into a bread costs, but how much does it cost to run the oven, the mixer, the proofer, the lights, the water, and your time.
 
Sanitation is another area of concern: You have to know that certain items not only have to be stored at certain temperatures, but they have to be stored in a particular place. (e.g: raw meats are stored lowest in the refrigerator, so they can't drip juices on anything else.) The health inspectors drop in for surprise visits to check you out, and everything has to be perfect ALL THE TIME, or you will get dinged. The sanitation rules are there for a good reason: You know where you've been you don't know where that customer has been.
 
Then there are the things that you have to do to the facilities to pass inspection. Sanitizer buckets close to the work area, hand wash sinks, floor coverings, dishwasher temperatures, record keeping for certain ingredients. (Keep the tags from the bags of clams for the correct amount of time, etc...) Just a few examples.
 
It isn't easy. It's a LOT of work.

50% failure rate after one year. Of the remaining, 50% failure the second year. Another 50% failure rate of the remaining in the third year. After that, you're pretty much established, and failures after that are usually due to things such as a critical person getting ill, dying, a fire, the city deciding to do major road work that cuts off all access to your business, a new highway that bypasses the town, that sort of stuff.
 
But if you consistently have a good product that fits your market and a good price, you can make it. You have to remember to know and control as many variables as you can. What happens if tomatoes go astronomical in price, and your biggest seller is a fresh bruschetta appetizer?
 
You might want to watch a few episodes of Restaurant Impossible and Gordon Ramsay's Nightmares to get an idea of what to watch out for. Those are extreme cases, but you might learn some tips of what behaviors and situations to watch for.
 
And you still might get hit by a meteor on the way to work.

But if it all comes together, then you have Something Special. You can become The Place To Go for lunch whenever someone is in town. And make a decent living at doing something you enjoy.

[thundley4]

I can't imagine any DUmmie running a business except into the ground.  Then again, the DUmmie probably couldn't pass a health inspection without bribing the inspector first.

[franksolich]

I can't imagine any DUmmie running a business except into the ground.  Then again, the DUmmie probably couldn't pass a health inspection without bribing the inspector first.

What bothers me is the primitive's obsession with how many hours she'd have to work.

That's of course important, but not important enough to be obsessed with it; the hours just happen, and one adapts.

I'm guessing most successful small businesses, the person who started one, was working damned near 168 hours a week, for the first few years.

And so I suspect the primitive's more interested in just having an 8-5 five-day-a-week twelve paid holidays a year, job, than in successfully operating a restaurant.

[Tucker]

I can just about guarantee that she will pay below minimum wage. She will expect the help to live on tips.

[dandi]

3) how much work / hours it would entail

The classic DUmmy dealbreaker. It takes A LOT of work and time invested in making a restaurant work. The owner pretty much has to be there every open hour for the first year to make sure things are done right, and an unknown amount of time beyond that before you find a management team who won't either rob you blind or let food and service turn to shit.

It would be interesting to see if the DUmmy pays that "living wage", the vaunted $15/hour or more, to everyone in the store, including busboys and dishwashers. I would bet almost anything they don't.

[GOBUCKS]

The first thing DUmmy cillanumberprogress should plan is to provide free food to unionized schoolteachers and government drones. That policy has a proven track record at the DUmp.

She should not plan to get any useful advice from DUmmy cbayer. Her only successful business was thread slaying. If she'd actually had any success in business, she surely wouldn't be living in less than 100 sq. ft. on board a tiny little boat at a dock in California.

DUmmy cillanumberprogress would be best advised to wait out the rainy spell, after which the carwash will hire back those it laid off this week. She's way too concerned about hours worked to make a go of it. Her pie shop or whatever it is would go belly up the first time she went on strike against herself.

[Chris_]

It would be interesting to see if the DUmmy pays that "living wage", the vaunted $15/hour or more, to everyone in the store, including busboys and dishwashers. I would bet almost anything they don't.

I hope her employees try to unionize on her.  It would be karma.

[Dori]

Considering cafe start-up - resources? ideas?

I got laid off again this week. I am looking into taking over a bakery / lunch spot in my small town that was at one time successful, but failed for various mostly management reasons.

Oh what a wonderful idea. Please, please, please open that little cafe .  I want to live vicariously through your progress and success.   

[GOBUCKS]

She's a DUmmy.

If she had a luncheonette, she'd close it from 11:30 - 1:00 and go to lunch.

[Mr Mannn]

be sure to spray for earwigs

[franksolich]

She's a DUmmy.

If she had a luncheonette, she'd close it from 11:30 - 1:00 and go to lunch.

Uh huh.

There's a bookstore in Lincoln (Nebraska) where the owner did that, going out for coffee breaks and lunch right during those times the downtown crowd was thickest.

It's like she ran the place for her convenience, not for the convenience of customers.

[Delmar]

I'd like to have a small business someday.  A small used bookstore or something similar--doesn't really matter.  I'd have a TV running FOX news all of the time except for when Rush or Levin are on.  Then I'd just sit back and wait for the DUmmies to come in and start complaining and asking me to change it and threatening to take their business elsewhere.  Then I'd tell them to get the hell out of my store.

[USA4ME]

Not often I give advice to the primitives, but it would be to their benefit to listen to this from me.

Here it is.

Unless you're Greek or Chinese, don't open a restaurant.

.

[thundley4]

Not often I give advice to the primitives, but it would be to their benefit to listen to this from me.

Here it is.

Unless you're Greek or Chinese, don't open a restaurant.

.

Most of them hate Asians, but they do love them some Greek, at least the DUmmie males do.

[GOBUCKS]

Unless you're Greek or Chinese, don't open a restaurant.

Skyline Chili, which is mentioned in the Bible as "manna", was founded, owned, and operated by a Greek family in Cincinnati.

When I was first introduced to the original Skyline location, the founder's sons were there, working in white shirts and ties, sweating over the steam tables, from open to close every day. They have dozens of locations now, from Indiana to Florida. Teachers and government drones do not get free food.

[Tucker]

I'd like to have a small business someday.  A small used bookstore or something similar--doesn't really matter.  I'd have a TV running FOX news all of the time except for when Rush or Levin are on.  Then I'd just sit back and wait for the DUmmies to come in and start complaining and asking me to change it and threatening to take their business elsewhere.  Then I'd tell them to get the hell out of my store.

According to DUmmies, if you had FOX News on the TV 24/7, you'd close up shop within the 1st 30 days and be the subject of a DUmp bouncy. Why you ask? Simple. Only DUmmies read books. Therefore your customer base would be DUmbasses, who would boycott you. Everyone knows that knuckle dragging, Neanderthals don't read books. We keep our women pregnant, drink beer all day and shoot innocent people.

[RobJohnson]

Uh huh.

There's a bookstore in Lincoln (Nebraska) where the owner did that, going out for coffee breaks and lunch right during those times the downtown crowd was thickest.

It's like she ran the place for her convenience, not for the convenience of customers.

My mother's father used to call business owners like that "too independent." I remember a barber shop in Aledo, IL that upset him as every time he would show up to try and get a hair cut there would be a sign up that said "back in five minutes." Once we waited 20 minutes and there was still no sign of the barber. It was about a twenty minute drive to the barber shop and then it was hit or miss if the guy was there. Sure you could call first but if he was cutting someone's hair he would not answer the phone. Grandpa used to get pissed! 

[Flufferlie]

My grandfather owned a restaurant in Charlotte, and its WORK. ( We aren't greek or asian either hehe) If they are so focused and worried on how much you have to work, odds are you don't have the guts to run a small business.

[Big Dog]

Oh what a wonderful idea. Please, please, please open that little cafe .  I want to live vicariously through your progress and success.   

I like the way you think.

[JohnnyReb]

My grandfather owned a restaurant in Charlotte, and its WORK. ( We aren't greek or asian either hehe) If they are so focused and worried on how much you have to work, odds are you don't have the guts to run a small business.

Oh yeah, becoming self employed, quit "A" job with "A" boss to do "MANY" public jobs with "Many" bosses......of whom 50% are assholes that you have to be polite to. DUmmies couldn't hack it if their life depended on it.

[Karin]

I do have experience in this, and became exhausted just reading the thread.  DUmmie, I lived on 4 hours of sleep  a night for a very long time.  While we were successful, we never got rich from it.  Food margins are razor thin.  The person who mentioned $20K net, that you sniffed at and pronounced unacceptable, was being optimistic and generous. 

Anyway, this is never going to happen, so I'm not going to waste time with advice.   

[Flufferlie]

Oh yeah, becoming self employed, quit "A" job with "A" boss to do "MANY" public jobs with "Many" bosses......of whom 50% are assholes that you have to be polite to. DUmmies couldn't hack it if their life depended on it.

Exactly. I don't even understand how you could run a small business and remain a DUmmy (aka buried with your head in the sand)

[USA4ME]

My grandfather owned a restaurant in Charlotte, and its WORK. ( We aren't greek or asian either hehe).

Anytime I meet someone who's Greek, my first question to them is "So, what restaurant does your family own?"

 

.

[Flufferlie]

Anytime I meet someone who's Greek, my first question to them is "So, what restaurant does your family own?"

 

.

Hahahaha my grandfather was constantly asked if he was Greek. After a while it irritated him quite a bit. 

He ran that restaurant for 3 decades, and after he passed my grandmother ran it another decade.
Two homeless men broke in it one night to drink and sleep and accidentally burnt it down.

[JohnnyReb]

Hahahaha my grandfather was constantly asked if he was Greek. After a while it irritated him quite a bit. 

He ran that restaurant for 3 decades, and after he passed my grandmother ran it another decade.
Two homeless men broke in it one night to drink and sleep and accidentally burnt it down.

....and the DUmmies felt so sorry for the homeless guys that they demanded your grandmother be taxed more.